I appreciate Andreas keeping this list updated, and it is not tangential
but central to this thread's topic. It is very pertinent that the
self-appointed spokesperson of this community (who has styled himself in
this NSA suit as a worrier for freedom) was snuggling up to a truly
despotic regime,
Okay, but seriously, please stop resurrecting this thread. If you
think it's important that something be done, start a new one, and
*actually suggest something* rather than just copying articles from
somewhere else.
Austin
On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
Article in Eurasianet today: Wikipedia Founder Distances Himself from
Kazakhstan PR Machine
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/72831
---o0o---
[...]
On March 20, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales hosted an Ask Me Anything
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:34 PM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com
wrote:
Andreas' idea should be written
up as an IdeaLab project, or research grant proposal, etc.
Thanks. For those interested in getting involved, I've added it on IdeaLab:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 5:53 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com
wrote:
What other unfortunate laws are
happening elsewhere in the
I do not think that WMF's filing a suit against NSA should be a starting
point for demanding the WMF to cure all the evils of the World, political
or otherwise
.
Even handling the recognized problems of some minor Wikipedias fall outside
the scope of the WMF.
Wikipedia is the Encyclopedia anyone
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Thyge ltl.pri...@gmail.com wrote:
I do not think that WMF's filing a suit against NSA should be a starting
point for demanding the WMF to cure all the evils of the World, political
or otherwise.
Well, not all the evils of the world, obviously. :) But there
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Steven Walling
steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
These off topic emails about the same subject Andreas grinds his axe about
perpetually are pretty annoying. Can moderation do something please?
I'm not sure what forum would be more on-topic, if not this one. I
Hi,
2015-03-13 5:54 GMT+01:00 MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com:
phoebe ayers wrote:
(...)
Education is apolitical.
Education is certainly not apolitical.
People with different political opinions support education, but free
education like the one promoted by the WMF is certainly more a
political
Hi all,
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 9:54 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
phoebe ayers wrote:
I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to
participate in.
Whether the Wikimedia Foundation should be engaged in political advocacy,
and if so, who decides when and to
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 5:53 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote:
What other unfortunate laws are
happening elsewhere in the world and how do we track and maybe act on
those?
I gave a very specific example in an earlier post this month:[1]
A [Kazakh] law that took effect in
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 5:53 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com
wrote:
What other unfortunate laws are
happening elsewhere in the world and how do we track and maybe act on
those?
Here is a concrete
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 7:00 AM Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
Steven Walling has written an interesting answer on Quora about one aspect
of the New York Times op-ed, i.e. the threat NSA surveillance supposedly
poses to Wikipedians living under oppressive regimes:
I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this
statement:
I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to
participate in.
In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a
long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this
statement:
I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to
participate in.
In general I think highly of Michelle, but this
Oliver,
I have thought about running more than once (:
Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended.
James,
I have mixed feelings about having discussions behind closed doors.
Sometimes it's convenient or emotionally easier to do so, but I worry about
losing our value of
(Personal capacity)
Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it
actually contained. What she said was I trust our legal team to make
decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In other words,
to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of
Pardon the mobile device mistype. A *move* toward more openness.
Pine
On Mar 13, 2015 12:49 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
Oliver,
I have thought about running more than once (:
Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended.
James,
I have mixed feelings about
2015-03-13 10:36 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia edsape...@gmail.com:
Education is apolitical.
I beg to differ.
Me too.
«Growing up, you know, I slowly had this process realizing that all
the things around me that people had told me were just the natural way
of things were, or the way things would
On 13 March 2015 at 19:04, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a
long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being
deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and
possibly longer. I feel that
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this
statement:
I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to
participate in.
...WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance
Hmm. It's more like we have little evidence that the former is happening,
perhaps because of the latter. Anyway, yes, I think I've made my point and
will let this thread get back on its main track.
Pine
On Mar 13, 2015 5:43 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote:
So we've now moved from the
So we've now moved from the board doesn't ask hard enough questions!
to the board doesn't tell us enough? Those are distinct concerns. If
you have them, I'd suggest spinning off a thread so we can keep this
one to what it's meant to be discussing.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Pine W
Education is apolitical.
I beg to differ.
Saying that Wikipedia is apolitical is like saying democracy is apolitical.
Control of information is at the heart of politics, and the knowledge that
people have access to profoundly changes the way that they interact with
society over their
I think that making us not-a-source-of-referred-traffic might
be a good thing. (It disincentivises those
who should be disincentivised, while not harming
anyone else)
sincerely,
Kim Bruning
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 09:21:57AM -0700, Pete Forsyth wrote:
There's a relevant research
Steven Walling has written an interesting answer on Quora about one aspect
of the New York Times op-ed, i.e. the threat NSA surveillance supposedly
poses to Wikipedians living under oppressive regimes:
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 5:03 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
How does the Wikimedia Foundation intend to protect the rights of
users around the world when it will have a nearly impossible time of
protecting Americans, much less non-Americans? U.S. courts and the U.S.
Congress have
Personally I am not convinced this is an optimal action in order for us
to reach our goals, mission and vision. To attack the Intellectual
property laws would be more spot on and this action can put our
image/brand at risk (but also strengthen it).
From a tactical viewpoint, I personally have
I agree that it is good for someone to stand up to the NSA, though I am
also very sympathetic to the point that taking legal action may require the
WMF to devote considerable time and money to this project, and distract
from other goals. Perhaps the ACLU and the other plaintiffs are going to
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 10:12 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
A page on Meta-Wiki
collecting information about this lawsuit might be nice to have.
When we were rolling out I put the FAQ at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_v._National_Security_Agency/FAQ
for
phoebe ayers wrote:
As for cost, remember that the ACLU is filing the suit on the
plaintiffs' (us) behalf. My understanding is our major investment here
is coordination time and our good name.
The fact that the Wikimedia Foundation is being used as a convenient
vehicle makes me feel a bit more
In answers to questions on Quora, Jimmy Wales responded to some of the
points from my earlier mailing list reply. (I didn't post any questions,
including the questions linked below, to Quora.) A page on Meta-Wiki
collecting information about this lawsuit might be nice to have.
MZMcBride wrote:
On 3/11/15 12:03 AM, MZMcBride wrote:
snip
But more to the point: even if by some miracle, this case were resolved in
2015 with a very explicit federal court order instructing the National
Security Agency to cease mass surveillance, is there anyone who believes
that this will end mass
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:40 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
Let's hope so. A key point is that the extraordinary overreach of this
surveillance affects everyone.
I am absolutely delighted that the Wikimedia Foundation has taken this
courageous step - precisely because
On 11 March 2015 at 08:37, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi,
The fact that law suits like this actually happen is a wonderful
improvement in and of itself.
Our aim is to freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Free has many
meaning, one of them is free to share without
Hoi,
Sigh ... being spied upon by the AIVD is not fine. However, they have a
duty to Dutch people and the argument that the NSA is benign to
US-Americans equally applies to the AIVD. We do serve Wikimedia content
from Amsterdam.
The notion that the AIVD is incompetent is based on what ? It is
Hoi,
The fact that law suits like this actually happen is a wonderful
improvement in and of itself.
Our aim is to freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Free has many
meaning, one of them is free to share without consequences.It is not only
about free of cost.In the past we implemented https
Thanks for the news, Michelle, and good luck to the Legal team as this case
moves forward. :)
That being said, I am concerned that the Foundation seems to give unequal
airtime to U.S.-specific issues, while not really doing much about similar
issues in other parts of the world. Much of my
Hoi,
Please read this article by the Volkskrant (in the translation of your
tools) and you see that a review by a judge can be extremely useful. It
also shows that organisations like the NSA can and do lose.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:03 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Hi.
I'm of two minds here. I would love for mass surveillance to stop; the
revelations of the past few years are disgusting. However, this lawsuit
has the appearance of being the start of a completely un-winnable case
Hoi,
I applaud this action. Great.
The next step is making it not so easy for the NSA to harvest their ill
gotten gains. We could and should share our data from cache servers that
are much closer to our users ie outside the USA. The benefit would not be
so much in frustrating the NSA but more in
for an organization taking on the NSA for spying..why are we using
https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
running with our tail between our legs?
On 3/10/15, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl wrote:
this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.
dariusz pundit
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson mpaul...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Hi All,
I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
filing
I created draft of the article about the case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Wikimedia_v._NSAin English Wikipedia.
I'm not sure it's not too soon to move this draft to the main namespace.
Please add content and then move it to main ns when you think it's ready.
Best
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at
2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com:
for an organization taking on the NSA for spying..why are we using
https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
running with our tail between our legs?
(For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the
Greatly done!
This is not just news. It is a mark that will be recorded in bold letters
in the history of human's quest for knowledge.
-user:ViswaPrabha
https://ml.wikipedia.org
On 10 March 2015 at 18:15, Tomasz Ganicz polime...@gmail.com wrote:
https is generaly increasing privacy of the
https is generaly increasing privacy of the users. http can be listen by
anyone. It is like using walkie-talkie - anyone with radio-scanner can
listen :-)
2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com:
for an organization taking on the NSA for spying..why are we using
That's great!
Pending for translation.
2015-03-10 10:21 GMT-06:00 Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com:
There's a relevant research project outlined on Meta, about HTTPS:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_referrer_policy
Here's the nutshell description:
Since we started
Michelle and Geoff - thank you.
This is a big step; I am glad that WMF can help move this case forward.
Chris Keating writes:
I'm not American, but the other co-plaintiffs seem to be civil rights /
human rights organisations who are firmly at the left-wing/progressive end
of US politics, some
Probably a good time for everyone to know about EFF's HTTPS Everywhere:
HTTPS Everywhere is a Firefox, Chrome, and Opera extension that encrypts
your communications with many major websites, making your browsing more
secure. Encrypt the web: Install HTTPS Everywhere today.
Kudos to the Legal Team on this important case!
-greg aka varnent
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 9:01 AM, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) vp2...@gmail.com
wrote:
Greatly done!
This is not just news. It is a mark that will be recorded in bold letters
in the history of human's quest for knowledge.
There's a relevant research project outlined on Meta, about HTTPS:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_referrer_policy
Here's the nutshell description:
Since we started switching to HTTPS and an increasing portion of inbound
traffic happens over SSL, Wikimedia sites stopped
Curious question, by the way: how controversial would you expect this move
to be domestically? From e.g. a Swedish perspective, the NSA is an
intelligence agency of a foreign power and the other mentioned
organizations are either largely uncontroversial and seen in a positive
light (Amnesty,
Aye, I also only have anecdotal evidince at this point (from my father who
has been messaging me and myself) but the comments I've seen in the
american press have been 10:1 (higher on tech sites) with generally more
thoughtful comments then usual and where there are critiques they are not
bad
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm not American, but the other co-plaintiffs seem to be civil rights /
human rights organisations who are firmly at the left-wing/progressive end
of US politics
I am an American, and I'm not so sure about that
It's difficult to overstate how much people love us. We tell them
everything about everything, and we're mostly right and try to stay
neutral. But it's all written by just people! So it's cosy as well.
With SOPA, we discovered that: when Wikipedia says you suck, you *suck*.
So I'd expect that
2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson mpaul...@wikimedia.org:
Hi All,
I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
filing suit against the National Security Agency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency, the Department
of
Justice
In the U.S., there is also a strong minority contingent of Libertarians,
who tend to be on the right-wing/conservative part of the political
spectrum. These are natural allies for both privacy governmental
non-intrunsion. I think that they would welcome WMF joining this legal
action.
Yours,
Hi,
Wow! I am proud to be a volunteer working with an organisation daring
to take such steps.
I hope that this will bring concrete results.
Best regards,
Yann
2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson mpaul...@wikimedia.org:
Hi All,
I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia
Thank you for taking this action.
All the best,
Michael
Michelle Paulson mailto:mpaul...@wikimedia.org
10 March 2015 07:53
Hi All,
I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
filing suit against the National Security Agency
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