Re: [Wikimedia-l] C-team Statement on the Code of Conduct

2018-08-14 Thread Isarra Yos

Sorry, I apparently replied to the wrong mailing list.

On 14/08/18 18:19, Isarra Yos wrote:
As a total random, I'd also like to second this - as much as I think 
the CoC and the committee in particular have room to improve in how 
things are handled, this will never happen without proper support for 
the work they're doing in the first place.


While some of us have been somewhat flabbergasted by specific events, 
these are after all the people we need to be working with to actually 
resolve the issues at hand, and indeed the events (and handling 
thereof) themselves have also highlighted the need for more clearer 
standards moving forward. I'm glad to see some steps have already been 
taken. Let's continue in this vein.


Thank you!

-I

On 14/08/18 18:08, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:

Hey,
As a member of Code of conduct committee I just wanted to express how 
much

I appreciate your statement. The work we are doing is not fun, we are
dealing with frustrations, harassments, trolling, and all sorts of 
the dark

side of the Wikimedia movement but I genuinely believe that this type of
work is vital to keep the movement moving forward, to make us more
welcoming and foster a diverse environment.

All of the support I've received, private and public, online and 
offline is

overwhelming. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Best
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 7:46 PM Victoria Coleman 


wrote:


Hello everyone,

The executive leadership team, on behalf of the Foundation, would 
like to
issue a statement of unequivocal support for the Code of Conduct[1] 
and the
community-led Code of Conduct Committee. We believe that the 
development

and implementation of the Code are vital in ensuring the healthy
functioning of our technical communities and spaces. The Code of 
Conduct
was created to address obstacles and occasionally very problematic 
personal
communications that limit participation and cause real harm to 
community
members and staff. In engaging in this work we are setting the tone 
for the
ways we collaborate in tech. We are saying that treating others 
badly is
not welcome in our communities. And we are joining an important 
movement in

the tech industry to address these problems in a way that supports
self-governance consistent with our values.

This initiative is critical in continuing the amazing work of our 
projects
and ensuring that they continue to flourish in delivering on the 
critical

vision of being the essential infrastructure of free knowledge now and
forever.

Toby, Maggie, Eileen, Heather, Lisa, Katherine, Jaime, Joady, and 
Victoria



https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct <
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct>




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] C-team Statement on the Code of Conduct

2018-08-14 Thread Isarra Yos
As a total random, I'd also like to second this - as much as I think the 
CoC and the committee in particular have room to improve in how things 
are handled, this will never happen without proper support for the work 
they're doing in the first place.


While some of us have been somewhat flabbergasted by specific events, 
these are after all the people we need to be working with to actually 
resolve the issues at hand, and indeed the events (and handling thereof) 
themselves have also highlighted the need for more clearer standards 
moving forward. I'm glad to see some steps have already been taken. 
Let's continue in this vein.


Thank you!

-I

On 14/08/18 18:08, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:

Hey,
As a member of Code of conduct committee I just wanted to express how much
I appreciate your statement. The work we are doing is not fun, we are
dealing with frustrations, harassments, trolling, and all sorts of the dark
side of the Wikimedia movement but I genuinely believe that this type of
work is vital to keep the movement moving forward, to make us more
welcoming and foster a diverse environment.

All of the support I've received, private and public, online and offline is
overwhelming. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Best
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 7:46 PM Victoria Coleman 
wrote:


Hello everyone,

The executive leadership team, on behalf of the Foundation, would like to
issue a statement of unequivocal support for the Code of Conduct[1] and the
community-led Code of Conduct Committee. We believe that the development
and implementation of the Code are vital in ensuring the healthy
functioning of our technical communities and spaces. The Code of Conduct
was created to address obstacles and occasionally very problematic personal
communications that limit participation and cause real harm to community
members and staff. In engaging in this work we are setting the tone for the
ways we collaborate in tech. We are saying that treating others badly is
not welcome in our communities. And we are joining an important movement in
the tech industry to address these problems in a way that supports
self-governance consistent with our values.

This initiative is critical in continuing the amazing work of our projects
and ensuring that they continue to flourish in delivering on the critical
vision of being the essential infrastructure of free knowledge now and
forever.

Toby, Maggie, Eileen, Heather, Lisa, Katherine, Jaime, Joady, and Victoria


https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct <
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct>




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] C-team Statement on the Code of Conduct

2018-08-14 Thread Dennis During
I don't see how a ringing endorsement of principles is responsive to
specific issues that have been raised.  If this email has any meaning at
all, it seems to mean that no change whatsoever is thought necessary by the
folks who would have to change.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 13:46 Victoria Coleman  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> The executive leadership team, on behalf of the Foundation, would like to
> issue a statement of unequivocal support for the Code of Conduct[1] and the
> community-led Code of Conduct Committee. We believe that the development
> and implementation of the Code are vital in ensuring the healthy
> functioning of our technical communities and spaces. The Code of Conduct
> was created to address obstacles and occasionally very problematic personal
> communications that limit participation and cause real harm to community
> members and staff. In engaging in this work we are setting the tone for the
> ways we collaborate in tech. We are saying that treating others badly is
> not welcome in our communities. And we are joining an important movement in
> the tech industry to address these problems in a way that supports
> self-governance consistent with our values.
>
> This initiative is critical in continuing the amazing work of our projects
> and ensuring that they continue to flourish in delivering on the critical
> vision of being the essential infrastructure of free knowledge now and
> forever.
>
> Toby, Maggie, Eileen, Heather, Lisa, Katherine, Jaime, Joady, and Victoria
>
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct <
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] C-team Statement on the Code of Conduct

2018-08-14 Thread Pine W
James, let's stay on topic, please. If you want to talk about other issues
then please start a new thread.

Victoria, I have mixed feelings about this statement.

I agree that we want to have civility in technical spaces, and a technical
code of conduct is one important way of working toward that goal. I also
agree that having ways to resolve disputes and deal with problematic
behavior is important.

On the other hand, I think several aspects of your statement are less than
ideal.

* This situation is being discussed civilly in a single thread on
Wikitech-l, and I see no reason to start a new thread.

* You added Wikimedia-l to this discussion, and Wikimedia-l is outside of
the scope of the TCoC. I think that adding Wikimedia-l to the discussion is
an unnecessary escalation. Please refrain from unnecessary escalations.

* While the opinions of the WMF executives are somewhat influential, my
understanding is that WMF wants the Technical Code of Conduct and the
committee that enforces it to have political legitimacy in the community.
Involvement of the WMF C-levels works against that. I think that you should
let the participants in the discussion (which I feel is now generally tense
but constructive) work out this situation among themselves / ourselves
without the intervention of WMF executives. Although there are situations
in which the intervention of WMF executives would be helpful, I think that
this isn't one of them.

* The statement that you made comes across to me as endorsing the status
quo. I am not sure that this was your intent. I feel that adjustments to
policies and practices should be considered, partially based on the
constructive portions of the discussions that are happening on Wikitech-l.

I agree that the TCoC Committee has a difficult job when the try to do it
well, and I support the goal of having civility in technical spaces. I
think that it would be possible, and appropriate, to express support for
good-faith efforts of the Committee's members and those participating in
the discussion in Wikitech-l, and for the goals of the CoC, without
unnecessary escalation or intervention from WMF executives that may make a
difficult situation more challenging. Sometimes less involvement is the
better way to achieve one's goals.

Thank you for listening,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] C-team Statement on the Code of Conduct

2018-08-14 Thread Amir Ladsgroup
Hey,
As a member of Code of conduct committee I just wanted to express how much
I appreciate your statement. The work we are doing is not fun, we are
dealing with frustrations, harassments, trolling, and all sorts of the dark
side of the Wikimedia movement but I genuinely believe that this type of
work is vital to keep the movement moving forward, to make us more
welcoming and foster a diverse environment.

All of the support I've received, private and public, online and offline is
overwhelming. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Best
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 7:46 PM Victoria Coleman 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> The executive leadership team, on behalf of the Foundation, would like to
> issue a statement of unequivocal support for the Code of Conduct[1] and the
> community-led Code of Conduct Committee. We believe that the development
> and implementation of the Code are vital in ensuring the healthy
> functioning of our technical communities and spaces. The Code of Conduct
> was created to address obstacles and occasionally very problematic personal
> communications that limit participation and cause real harm to community
> members and staff. In engaging in this work we are setting the tone for the
> ways we collaborate in tech. We are saying that treating others badly is
> not welcome in our communities. And we are joining an important movement in
> the tech industry to address these problems in a way that supports
> self-governance consistent with our values.
>
> This initiative is critical in continuing the amazing work of our projects
> and ensuring that they continue to flourish in delivering on the critical
> vision of being the essential infrastructure of free knowledge now and
> forever.
>
> Toby, Maggie, Eileen, Heather, Lisa, Katherine, Jaime, Joady, and Victoria
>
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct <
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] C-team Statement on the Code of Conduct

2018-08-14 Thread James Salsman
Victoria,

Does the restriction on "Disclosure of a person's identity or other
private information without their consent" forbid the Foundation from
sharing the geolocation and IP addresses of editors with researchers
under NDA or law enforcement officials claiming to have, e.g., an
Interpol subpoena?

Sincerely,
Jim Salsman

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Victoria Coleman
 wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> The executive leadership team, on behalf of the Foundation, would like to 
> issue a statement of unequivocal support for the Code of Conduct[1] and the 
> community-led Code of Conduct Committee. We believe that the development and 
> implementation of the Code are vital in ensuring the healthy functioning of 
> our technical communities and spaces. The Code of Conduct was created to 
> address obstacles and occasionally very problematic personal communications 
> that limit participation and cause real harm to community members and staff. 
> In engaging in this work we are setting the tone for the ways we collaborate 
> in tech. We are saying that treating others badly is not welcome in our 
> communities. And we are joining an important movement in the tech industry to 
> address these problems in a way that supports self-governance consistent with 
> our values.
>
> This initiative is critical in continuing the amazing work of our projects 
> and ensuring that they continue to flourish in delivering on the critical 
> vision of being the essential infrastructure of free knowledge now and 
> forever.
>
> Toby, Maggie, Eileen, Heather, Lisa, Katherine, Jaime, Joady, and Victoria
>
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct 
> 
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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