Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-21 Thread Lane Rasberry
Hello, Here is another perspective on this same issue and an actionable remedy for a lot of the problems we are discussing here. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2014-May/004287.html That email describes a game in which people use a game on Wikidata to tag biographies with a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-20 Thread Chad Horohoe
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Lane Rasberry l...@bluerasberry.comwrote: The major problem is that labor is wasted because there is no easy way to search intersections of categories. Instead of having a category for 18th century French painters, it would be ideal to just have tags for people

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-20 Thread Jan Ainali
2014-05-20 8:41 GMT+02:00 Chad Horohoe choro...@wikimedia.org: The search engine (new, as well as old) supports category intersection. So actually, searching intersections of categories is very easy. Our definitiions of very easy are not intersecting :) It is possible yes, but to qualify for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-20 Thread David Gerard
On 20 May 2014 02:16, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: David Gerard wrote: I'll be leaving Commons categorisation until it's tags rather than ridiculously specific subcategories. Commons has tags right now: they're called categories. Or is there a distinction you're making? :-) We've

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-20 Thread David Gerard
On 20 May 2014 02:44, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Regarding hierarchy, there's absolutely no technical reason, as far as I'm aware, that categories must be hierarchal. It's certainly an intended feature that categories have subcategories and the capability to be hierarchal (i.e., you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, OmegaWiki did a proof of concept for tagging images with multilingual tags years ago.. Categories are broken by design. It is not only that they are unilingual, it is also that they are always in the plural. Why look for horses when you look for a picture of a horse? Thanks, GerardM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-20 Thread Nikolas Everett
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:06 AM, Jan Ainali jan.ain...@wikimedia.se wrote: 2014-05-20 8:41 GMT+02:00 Chad Horohoe choro...@wikimedia.org: The search engine (new, as well as old) supports category intersection. So actually, searching intersections of categories is very easy. Our

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread Nathan
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 9:16 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: David Gerard wrote: I'll be leaving Commons categorisation until it's tags rather than ridiculously specific subcategories. Commons has tags right now: they're called categories. Or is there a distinction you're making?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread MZMcBride
Nathan wrote: Sure - ease of use for tagging and the sometimes complex hierarchical nature of categories. For ease of use (adding and removing), I think most wikis have HotCat (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/HotCat). Is that insufficient? Regarding hierarchy, there's absolutely no technical

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Easy and obvious when you look at it with eyes that do not expect English. A tag will be linked to Wikidata. Consequently it will show differently depending on the language you have selected for yourself. It is just these other people who will be serviced. Another reason is that there are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread Nathan
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 9:44 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Nathan wrote: Sure - ease of use for tagging and the sometimes complex hierarchical nature of categories. For ease of use (adding and removing), I think most wikis have HotCat (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/HotCat).

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread Lane Rasberry
MZMcBride - Categories are hierarchical and people worry about them overlapping. Tags have no hierarchy. The major problem is that labor is wasted because there is no easy way to search intersections of categories. Instead of having a category for 18th century French painters, it would be ideal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread MZMcBride
Lane Rasberry wrote: MZMcBride - Categories are hierarchical and people worry about them overlapping. Tags have no hierarchy. Categories _can be_ hierarchical, but categories can simultaneously be flat. People worry about a lot of things, but that doesn't mean there are substantive issues to be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread John Mark Vandenberg
I think intersection is the most significant cause of the current categorisation system. My understanding of the current reasoning behind categorisation as seen on Commons and elsewhere is that: 1) the lack of category intersection causes the very specific categories, which are essentially saved

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons tagging and/versus categorization

2014-05-19 Thread Rand McRanderson
The difference between categories and tags is semantic but those semantics determine how the feature is used. I suppose from an abstract technical perspective what is needed is different classes of category-like objects based on the purpose it should serve and displayed separately and possibly