Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
Hi Pete. I agree that the app could do more to explain to the user what is appropriate for commons. And I'd hate to see this app sunsetted, because it makes it very convenient to snap pictures and upload them in a few gestures. A couple of questions, tho: * Pete, there's already a tour when you open the app for the first time. Have you created an enhancement bug in bugzilla to add an explanation of commons and what is appropriate to upload? It's important that we trap great feedback like this in a workflow. * Everyone, if the app is sunsetted, does anyone know if the functionality will be added to another app? I see this functionality as tremendously useful, and I'd love to see sound recording and video (not sure if video is already covered or not) supported, as well. Thanks. ,Wil On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote: As an experienced user, the Commons app is tremendously useful (when it doesn't crash). But as a Commons curator, I see a steady stream of test uploads and the like -- things that are utterly and completely unrelated to our educational mission -- that require a great deal of volunteer resources to process. The vast majority are tagged as mobile uploads. The Commons app gives the user absolutely no idea what Commons is about, or what kind of uploads are desirable. I think that is significant. The UploadWizard on the desktop version of Commons starts off with a cartoon explaining issues like copyright and personality rights, and then guides the user through related questions. Although I have not done a formal analysis, it seems to be overwhelmingly the case that files originating from Mobile uploads are much more often problematic than those originating from the Upload Wizard. I don't think that's a coincidence. It would be really awesome to have the ability for experienced users to use our devices to upload directly -- and even better if it opens doors to new contributors *in a way that meaningfully guides their participation*. But if new contributors are given no guidance, and unknowingly do stuff that puts a high load on our volunteer curators -- is that cost too high? I hope that kind of improvement is part of the discussion. Personally, I'd rather see a revamped app, than that the app just disappears. Pete On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:41 PM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Yann, The Commons app would need lots of love to continue to be worth advertising as a mainline app. It's not been updated since October, and code rot sets in after a while (I can easily reproduce crashes when logging in with an account that has pre-existing uploads, which it tries to display for convenience but quickly chokes on). With the small app team we have, our focus is mainly on the official Wikipedia apps right now, which are already quite solid and receiving very positive reviews, esp. the Android app. [1] The team is discussing whether the Commons app should be sunset (which would still leave open the option of community maintainership) based on the numbers, and will be posting an update later this week. Erik [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia Hi Erik, The Wikipedia app description includes Share: Use your existing social networking apps to share in the sum of all human knowledge. Does it support uploading media to Commons? Does it fix the problems with the official Commons app? If so, can they share a library which would allow the Commons app to be more of a specialised front-end to the same functionality that the WMF mobile apps team are developing for Wikipedia? -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
Hi, 2014-09-08 10:45 GMT+05:30 Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com: I don't know what you mean by entering an email, but when you add I mean that the application asks how and where do I want to send my report. And could I know that? It seems obvious to me that, once I agree to send a report, the application should gather whatever information is needed from my phone (model, operating system, etc.), and send it without asking me where and how. Once that is fixed, we can discuss about serious reporting: what should I test, etc. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
Yann, The Commons app would need lots of love to continue to be worth advertising as a mainline app. It's not been updated since October, and code rot sets in after a while (I can easily reproduce crashes when logging in with an account that has pre-existing uploads, which it tries to display for convenience but quickly chokes on). With the small app team we have, our focus is mainly on the official Wikipedia apps right now, which are already quite solid and receiving very positive reviews, esp. the Android app. [1] The team is discussing whether the Commons app should be sunset (which would still leave open the option of community maintainership) based on the numbers, and will be posting an update later this week. Erik [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Yann, The Commons app would need lots of love to continue to be worth advertising as a mainline app. It's not been updated since October, and code rot sets in after a while (I can easily reproduce crashes when logging in with an account that has pre-existing uploads, which it tries to display for convenience but quickly chokes on). With the small app team we have, our focus is mainly on the official Wikipedia apps right now, which are already quite solid and receiving very positive reviews, esp. the Android app. [1] The team is discussing whether the Commons app should be sunset (which would still leave open the option of community maintainership) based on the numbers, and will be posting an update later this week. Erik [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia Hi Erik, The Wikipedia app description includes Share: Use your existing social networking apps to share in the sum of all human knowledge. Does it support uploading media to Commons? Does it fix the problems with the official Commons app? If so, can they share a library which would allow the Commons app to be more of a specialised front-end to the same functionality that the WMF mobile apps team are developing for Wikipedia? -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
Thanks to all in this thread for raising these issues. A discussion about sunsetting the Commons Android app is ongoing on mobile-l right now. I would encourage anyone who's interested to subscribe and comment. Thanks, Dan On 8 September 2014 18:30, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Yann, The Commons app would need lots of love to continue to be worth advertising as a mainline app. It's not been updated since October, and code rot sets in after a while (I can easily reproduce crashes when logging in with an account that has pre-existing uploads, which it tries to display for convenience but quickly chokes on). With the small app team we have, our focus is mainly on the official Wikipedia apps right now, which are already quite solid and receiving very positive reviews, esp. the Android app. [1] The team is discussing whether the Commons app should be sunset (which would still leave open the option of community maintainership) based on the numbers, and will be posting an update later this week. Erik [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
John, Responses in-line. On 8 September 2014 18:41, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: The Wikipedia app description includes Share: Use your existing social networking apps to share in the sum of all human knowledge. This refers to the Share functionality which is in the overflow menu. That's kind of functionality is built-in to Android and is super easy to implement. Does it support uploading media to Commons? No. It's in our longer-term plans for the Wikipedia app to do so, but that feature is not planned for any time soon. Does it fix the problems with the official Commons app? No, but it's not intended to right now, per the above. If so, can they share a library which would allow the Commons app to be more of a specialised front-end to the same functionality that the WMF mobile apps team are developing for Wikipedia? All of our code is open source and freely licensed, so anything that we're using is already publicly available and free to use and could be adapted to the Commons app. Thanks, Dan -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
As an experienced user, the Commons app is tremendously useful (when it doesn't crash). But as a Commons curator, I see a steady stream of test uploads and the like -- things that are utterly and completely unrelated to our educational mission -- that require a great deal of volunteer resources to process. The vast majority are tagged as mobile uploads. The Commons app gives the user absolutely no idea what Commons is about, or what kind of uploads are desirable. I think that is significant. The UploadWizard on the desktop version of Commons starts off with a cartoon explaining issues like copyright and personality rights, and then guides the user through related questions. Although I have not done a formal analysis, it seems to be overwhelmingly the case that files originating from Mobile uploads are much more often problematic than those originating from the Upload Wizard. I don't think that's a coincidence. It would be really awesome to have the ability for experienced users to use our devices to upload directly -- and even better if it opens doors to new contributors *in a way that meaningfully guides their participation*. But if new contributors are given no guidance, and unknowingly do stuff that puts a high load on our volunteer curators -- is that cost too high? I hope that kind of improvement is part of the discussion. Personally, I'd rather see a revamped app, than that the app just disappears. Pete On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:41 PM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Yann, The Commons app would need lots of love to continue to be worth advertising as a mainline app. It's not been updated since October, and code rot sets in after a while (I can easily reproduce crashes when logging in with an account that has pre-existing uploads, which it tries to display for convenience but quickly chokes on). With the small app team we have, our focus is mainly on the official Wikipedia apps right now, which are already quite solid and receiving very positive reviews, esp. the Android app. [1] The team is discussing whether the Commons app should be sunset (which would still leave open the option of community maintainership) based on the numbers, and will be posting an update later this week. Erik [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia Hi Erik, The Wikipedia app description includes Share: Use your existing social networking apps to share in the sum of all human knowledge. Does it support uploading media to Commons? Does it fix the problems with the official Commons app? If so, can they share a library which would allow the Commons app to be more of a specialised front-end to the same functionality that the WMF mobile apps team are developing for Wikipedia? -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Dan Garry dga...@wikimedia.org wrote: Thanks to all in this thread for raising these issues. A discussion about sunsetting the Commons Android app is ongoing on mobile-l right now. I would encourage anyone who's interested to subscribe and comment. Hi Dam, thanks for your responses. If the Wikipedia app doesnt have Commons upload capabilities, what is the viable replacement app for Commons uploading? -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
On Monday, 8 September 2014, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dam, thanks for your responses. If the Wikipedia app doesnt have Commons upload capabilities, what is the viable replacement app for Commons uploading? As I'm sure you're aware, if we were to sunset the Commons app then there wouldn't be a replacement. I would suggest reading mobile-l to see the rationale behind the proposal. I won't repeat it here to avoid duplication of the conversation. Thanks, Dan -- Dan Garry Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
Hi, The first thing to fix is the reporting: if the user accepts reporting, you should really report the issue without asking to enter a mail or some information the user does not know. I am fine playing a guinea pig if it is useful, but here I can't even report anything. Regards, Yann 2014-09-07 11:15 GMT+05:30 Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com: Hi Yann, most of the issues you're describing sound like straight-up bugs. When it comes to Android, it helps to know about issues that affect some models but may not come up on the model/version that the developer is using for testing. I think it's safe to say that the S4 is a '''must work''' Android platform. Some of the open bugs already filed might apply; if there are closed bugs that aren't fixed on S4, they may need to be reopened with a comment. And some of the issues you've mentioned don't seem to be captured at all: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?component=Androidlist_id=342313product=Commons%20App IMO, we should be as diligent as possible when it comes to filing bugs in the bug tracker. There are lots of concerns about the quality of software that have been expressed here. Whether you happen to be technical or not, this is one of the best ways each and every one of us can do our part to build better software for our community. Now that I've preached it, it's off to practice for me. I'm downloading the commons app on both of my Nexus devices now and will file any bugs I see. If anyone would like to join me and Yann, you can install the app on your Android device here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikimedia.commonshl=en ,Wil On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I am not a mobile user. So for the first time, I used the Mobile App on a Samsung S4 to upload a few pictures. I am quite disappointed, to say the least. I stopped counting how many times the application crashed while uploading just a few pictures. Then in reviewing my uploads, I can't see the description or the license, the field is blank. Then I discovered that the Application does not check if the name already exists, and uploads over the old file without warning. Luckily I didn't upload over someone else files. Then the categories I choose were not included, and also no warning there. It is a bit less bad on a tablet, where I can read the description and the license, but I can't add any category. I wonder how a software in such a bad condition gets deployed... Now it is much easier than on the desktop, and I understand why we get so many useless pictures from mobile uploads. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Mobile_app#Feedback_on_Android Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
I don't know what you mean by entering an email, but when you add something to a workflow like a bug system, it's pretty common that it expects to be able to send you notifications about status changes, etc. I didn't experience any of the issues you mentioned on my Nexus 5 phone and Nexus 7 tablet. No crashes, no overwritten files, and categories worked quite well with a string match list on search. I'm new to selfies, so I took a few. On the off chance that anyone cares what I look like :) here's one of them: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wil_Sinclair_Selfie.jpg On the whole, I thought it was a great app, and I plan on using it for more than uploading selfies soon. ;) I did notice that audio files weren't handled correctly in the app with the waiting wheel spinning endlessly, so I filed this bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70546 While I was playing around with it, I thought it would be cool if I could record audio for immediate upload like the functionality for taking and uploading a picture, so I added this bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70547 If you want to add your own issues, here's the place: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Commons%20App If it's not obvious enough already, I'm going through my experience because I believe it's not just the WMF that needs to make an effort if we expect our software to shine. If you just want to complain in to the wind, I suppose posting to this list is one way to do it (tho I think there are better, more specific lists to post to). If you are serious about getting it fixed, you might have to do a bit more footwork, but you're much more likely to make a difference and help the developers help us. Whenever someone complains about software on this list, I plan to go to bugzilla and check whether a bug has been filed. If it hasn't, I won't hesitate to call the complainer on it. Let's do our part, so the developers can do theirs. ,Wil On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The first thing to fix is the reporting: if the user accepts reporting, you should really report the issue without asking to enter a mail or some information the user does not know. I am fine playing a guinea pig if it is useful, but here I can't even report anything. Regards, Yann 2014-09-07 11:15 GMT+05:30 Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com: Hi Yann, most of the issues you're describing sound like straight-up bugs. When it comes to Android, it helps to know about issues that affect some models but may not come up on the model/version that the developer is using for testing. I think it's safe to say that the S4 is a '''must work''' Android platform. Some of the open bugs already filed might apply; if there are closed bugs that aren't fixed on S4, they may need to be reopened with a comment. And some of the issues you've mentioned don't seem to be captured at all: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?component=Androidlist_id=342313product=Commons%20App IMO, we should be as diligent as possible when it comes to filing bugs in the bug tracker. There are lots of concerns about the quality of software that have been expressed here. Whether you happen to be technical or not, this is one of the best ways each and every one of us can do our part to build better software for our community. Now that I've preached it, it's off to practice for me. I'm downloading the commons app on both of my Nexus devices now and will file any bugs I see. If anyone would like to join me and Yann, you can install the app on your Android device here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikimedia.commonshl=en ,Wil On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I am not a mobile user. So for the first time, I used the Mobile App on a Samsung S4 to upload a few pictures. I am quite disappointed, to say the least. I stopped counting how many times the application crashed while uploading just a few pictures. Then in reviewing my uploads, I can't see the description or the license, the field is blank. Then I discovered that the Application does not check if the name already exists, and uploads over the old file without warning. Luckily I didn't upload over someone else files. Then the categories I choose were not included, and also no warning there. It is a bit less bad on a tablet, where I can read the description and the license, but I can't add any category. I wonder how a software in such a bad condition gets deployed... Now it is much easier than on the desktop, and I understand why we get so many useless pictures from mobile uploads. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Mobile_app#Feedback_on_Android Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Feedback with Android on Commons
Hi Yann, most of the issues you're describing sound like straight-up bugs. When it comes to Android, it helps to know about issues that affect some models but may not come up on the model/version that the developer is using for testing. I think it's safe to say that the S4 is a '''must work''' Android platform. Some of the open bugs already filed might apply; if there are closed bugs that aren't fixed on S4, they may need to be reopened with a comment. And some of the issues you've mentioned don't seem to be captured at all: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?component=Androidlist_id=342313product=Commons%20App IMO, we should be as diligent as possible when it comes to filing bugs in the bug tracker. There are lots of concerns about the quality of software that have been expressed here. Whether you happen to be technical or not, this is one of the best ways each and every one of us can do our part to build better software for our community. Now that I've preached it, it's off to practice for me. I'm downloading the commons app on both of my Nexus devices now and will file any bugs I see. If anyone would like to join me and Yann, you can install the app on your Android device here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikimedia.commonshl=en ,Wil On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I am not a mobile user. So for the first time, I used the Mobile App on a Samsung S4 to upload a few pictures. I am quite disappointed, to say the least. I stopped counting how many times the application crashed while uploading just a few pictures. Then in reviewing my uploads, I can't see the description or the license, the field is blank. Then I discovered that the Application does not check if the name already exists, and uploads over the old file without warning. Luckily I didn't upload over someone else files. Then the categories I choose were not included, and also no warning there. It is a bit less bad on a tablet, where I can read the description and the license, but I can't add any category. I wonder how a software in such a bad condition gets deployed... Now it is much easier than on the desktop, and I understand why we get so many useless pictures from mobile uploads. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Mobile_app#Feedback_on_Android Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
