Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030

2017-10-27 Thread Peter Southwood
Hi Gerhard, Are you addressing me? Your reply is to my email,
Cheers,
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Gerard Meijssen
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 10:09 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic 
direction today! #wikimedia2030

Hoi,
You get it backwards; Yaroslav indicates that he EXPECTS not to be heard.
It does not follow that what people say will not be noticed and it does not 
follow that they may not be involved in the process of realising the strategy.

The option to be heard has nothing to do with the position on the strategic 
vision but everything on the way an opinion is phrased. There is much in the 
strategic vision that is not controversial and where we can easily agree on a 
way forward. Lets be simple about this and collaborate. The devil is in the 
detail and obviously the vision is not what will be realised; it is a map of 
how we envision the future.

When you want to be heard, what you want to be involved in the process, be part 
of the process. Do not say "no: this is wrong and I will do everything in my 
power to see this plan dismissed for the crap I think it is".  Find it in 
yourself to remain part of our community, involve yourself positively in the 
ongoing processes because it is a Wikimedia tradition to be bold and go where 
we have not gone before.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 27 October 2017 at 08:27, Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:

> It would be interesting to know who made the decision that persons who 
> do not endorse phase I will be excluded from further involvement in 
> the process, and how that decision is justified in the context of 
> Wikimedia project traditions.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On 
> Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the 
> strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030
>
> For the record, at the talk page of the endorsement page,
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement
>
> we have a small number of contributors, including myself, who explain 
> why they refuse to endorse the document. I do not expect us to be heard 
> though.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Kaarel Vaidla 
> <kaarelvai...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear fellow Wikimedians,
> >
> > As a volunteer member of some of the support groups for phase 1 of 
> > movement strategy process [1], I am excited about the Endorsement 
> > Day and am one of the people who has *individually endorsed 
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement#Individual_contributors>*
> > strategic
> > direction
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction>
> > .
> > With my letter to Wikimedia-l I would like to remind everyone that 
> > there is this possibilty of individual endorsement that may not have 
> > really been highlighted. So, if you personally feel like endorsing 
> > the direction, you are more than welcome to do that!
> > I am happy to see already quite many endorsements on respective meta
> page.
> > I am also happy that there are people presenting their discord with 
> > strategic direction in a constructive way on the endorsement 
> > discussion page 
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement>.
> > I think that it is important not only to endorse or not endorse the 
> > document, but also to give rationale why it is done. I believe that 
> > this will help us in moving forward together with Phase 2 and learn 
> > as
> we go.
> > As a result I have written a small essay in my user namespace 
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Misosoof/
> > Endorsement_of_Wikimedia2030>
> > presenting some of the reasons why I am happy with what we have 
> > achieved in phase 1 and with having a strategic direction for our 
> > movement. You may agree or disagree, but I feel it is important to
> express one's opinion.
> > Also I encourage everyone else to share their reasons for liking or 
> > disliking the direction with wider Wikimedia public, so we can learn 
> > more and have even more meaningful phase 2.
> > I thank you for your time and kind attention!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kaarel Vaidla
> >
> > [1] Namely

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030

2017-10-27 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz

Thank you Yaroslav.

I copied the matching section to 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement/Concerns


I also added a link to that page in the endorsement page, and began some 
sorting, including support/neutral/oppose for individuals (groups only 
replied in support so far).


In groups I added first level bullet for misc. kind of groups and let 
the whole existing endorsement in a second level list of unsorted items. 
Help on triage is welcome.


Cheers


Le 26/10/2017 à 19:55, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :

For the record, at the talk page of the endorsement page,

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement

we have a small number of contributors, including myself, who explain why
they refuse to endorse the document. I do not expect us to be heard though.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Kaarel Vaidla 
wrote:


Dear fellow Wikimedians,

As a volunteer member of some of the support groups for phase 1 of movement
strategy process [1], I am excited about the Endorsement Day and am one of
the people who has *individually endorsed
*
strategic
direction

.
With my letter to Wikimedia-l I would like to remind everyone that there is
this possibilty of individual endorsement that may not have really been
highlighted. So, if you personally feel like endorsing the direction, you
are more than welcome to do that!
I am happy to see already quite many endorsements on respective meta page.
I am also happy that there are people presenting their discord with
strategic direction in a constructive way on the endorsement discussion
page
.
I think that it is important not only to endorse or not endorse the
document, but also to give rationale why it is done. I believe that this
will help us in moving forward together with Phase 2 and learn as we go.
As a result I have written a small essay in my user namespace

presenting some of the reasons why I am happy with what we have achieved in
phase 1 and with having a strategic direction for our movement. You may
agree or disagree, but I feel it is important to express one's opinion.
Also I encourage everyone else to share their reasons for liking or
disliking the direction with wider Wikimedia public, so we can learn more
and have even more meaningful phase 2.
I thank you for your time and kind attention!

Best regards,
Kaarel Vaidla

[1] Namely, Community Process Steering Committee
,
Track A Advisory Group

and Drafting Group

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030

2017-10-27 Thread
Gerard, apart from you, has anyone written "no: this is wrong and I will do
everything in my power to see this plan dismissed for the crap I think it
is"

Unless you are using Trumpist tactics of spreading fake news to deride and
smear others, please source any controversial quotes.

Thanks
Fae
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LGBT+
http://telegram.me/wmlgbt

On 27 Oct 2017 11:28, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hoi,
You get it backwards; Yaroslav indicates that he EXPECTS not to be heard.
It does not follow that what people say will not be noticed and it does not
follow that they may not be involved in the process of realising the
strategy.

The option to be heard has nothing to do with the position on the strategic
vision but everything on the way an opinion is phrased. There is much in
the strategic vision that is not controversial and where we can easily
agree on a way forward. Lets be simple about this and collaborate. The
devil is in the detail and obviously the vision is not what will be
realised; it is a map of how we envision the future.

When you want to be heard, what you want to be involved in the process, be
part of the process. Do not say "no: this is wrong and I will do everything
in my power to see this plan dismissed for the crap I think it is".  Find
it in yourself to remain part of our community, involve yourself positively
in the ongoing processes because it is a Wikimedia tradition to be bold and
go where we have not gone before.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 27 October 2017 at 08:27, Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:

> It would be interesting to know who made the decision that persons who do
> not endorse phase I will be excluded from further involvement in the
> process, and how that decision is justified in the context of Wikimedia
> project traditions.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic
> direction today! #wikimedia2030
>
> For the record, at the talk page of the endorsement page,
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement
>
> we have a small number of contributors, including myself, who explain why
> they refuse to endorse the document. I do not expect us to be heard
though.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Kaarel Vaidla <kaarelvai...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear fellow Wikimedians,
> >
> > As a volunteer member of some of the support groups for phase 1 of
> > movement strategy process [1], I am excited about the Endorsement Day
> > and am one of the people who has *individually endorsed
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement#Individual_contributors>*
> > strategic
> > direction
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction>
> > .
> > With my letter to Wikimedia-l I would like to remind everyone that
> > there is this possibilty of individual endorsement that may not have
> > really been highlighted. So, if you personally feel like endorsing the
> > direction, you are more than welcome to do that!
> > I am happy to see already quite many endorsements on respective meta
> page.
> > I am also happy that there are people presenting their discord with
> > strategic direction in a constructive way on the endorsement
> > discussion page
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement>.
> > I think that it is important not only to endorse or not endorse the
> > document, but also to give rationale why it is done. I believe that
> > this will help us in moving forward together with Phase 2 and learn as
> we go.
> > As a result I have written a small essay in my user namespace
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Misosoof/
> > Endorsement_of_Wikimedia2030>
> > presenting some of the reasons why I am happy with what we have
> > achieved in phase 1 and with having a strategic direction for our
> > movement. You may agree or disagree, but I feel it is important to
> express one's opinion.
> > Also I encourage everyone else to share their reasons for liking or
> > disliking the direction with wider Wikimedia public, so we can learn
> > more and have even more meaningful phase 2.
> > I thank you for your time and kind attention!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kaarel Vaidla
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030

2017-10-27 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
You get it backwards; Yaroslav indicates that he EXPECTS not to be heard.
It does not follow that what people say will not be noticed and it does not
follow that they may not be involved in the process of realising the
strategy.

The option to be heard has nothing to do with the position on the strategic
vision but everything on the way an opinion is phrased. There is much in
the strategic vision that is not controversial and where we can easily
agree on a way forward. Lets be simple about this and collaborate. The
devil is in the detail and obviously the vision is not what will be
realised; it is a map of how we envision the future.

When you want to be heard, what you want to be involved in the process, be
part of the process. Do not say "no: this is wrong and I will do everything
in my power to see this plan dismissed for the crap I think it is".  Find
it in yourself to remain part of our community, involve yourself positively
in the ongoing processes because it is a Wikimedia tradition to be bold and
go where we have not gone before.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 27 October 2017 at 08:27, Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
wrote:

> It would be interesting to know who made the decision that persons who do
> not endorse phase I will be excluded from further involvement in the
> process, and how that decision is justified in the context of Wikimedia
> project traditions.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic
> direction today! #wikimedia2030
>
> For the record, at the talk page of the endorsement page,
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement
>
> we have a small number of contributors, including myself, who explain why
> they refuse to endorse the document. I do not expect us to be heard though.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Kaarel Vaidla <kaarelvai...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear fellow Wikimedians,
> >
> > As a volunteer member of some of the support groups for phase 1 of
> > movement strategy process [1], I am excited about the Endorsement Day
> > and am one of the people who has *individually endorsed
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement#Individual_contributors>*
> > strategic
> > direction
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction>
> > .
> > With my letter to Wikimedia-l I would like to remind everyone that
> > there is this possibilty of individual endorsement that may not have
> > really been highlighted. So, if you personally feel like endorsing the
> > direction, you are more than welcome to do that!
> > I am happy to see already quite many endorsements on respective meta
> page.
> > I am also happy that there are people presenting their discord with
> > strategic direction in a constructive way on the endorsement
> > discussion page
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement>.
> > I think that it is important not only to endorse or not endorse the
> > document, but also to give rationale why it is done. I believe that
> > this will help us in moving forward together with Phase 2 and learn as
> we go.
> > As a result I have written a small essay in my user namespace
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Misosoof/
> > Endorsement_of_Wikimedia2030>
> > presenting some of the reasons why I am happy with what we have
> > achieved in phase 1 and with having a strategic direction for our
> > movement. You may agree or disagree, but I feel it is important to
> express one's opinion.
> > Also I encourage everyone else to share their reasons for liking or
> > disliking the direction with wider Wikimedia public, so we can learn
> > more and have even more meaningful phase 2.
> > I thank you for your time and kind attention!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kaarel Vaidla
> >
> > [1] Namely, Community Process Steering Committee
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Proc
> > ess/
> > Steering_Committee>,
> > Track A Advisory Group
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Trac
> > k_A/
> > Advisory_Group>
> > and Drafting Group
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030

2017-10-27 Thread Peter Southwood
It would be interesting to know who made the decision that persons who do not 
endorse phase I will be excluded from further involvement in the process, and 
how that decision is justified in the context of Wikimedia project traditions.
Cheers,
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:56 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic 
direction today! #wikimedia2030

For the record, at the talk page of the endorsement page,

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement

we have a small number of contributors, including myself, who explain why they 
refuse to endorse the document. I do not expect us to be heard though.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Kaarel Vaidla <kaarelvai...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>
> As a volunteer member of some of the support groups for phase 1 of 
> movement strategy process [1], I am excited about the Endorsement Day 
> and am one of the people who has *individually endorsed 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement#Individual_contributors>*
> strategic
> direction
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Direction>
> .
> With my letter to Wikimedia-l I would like to remind everyone that 
> there is this possibilty of individual endorsement that may not have 
> really been highlighted. So, if you personally feel like endorsing the 
> direction, you are more than welcome to do that!
> I am happy to see already quite many endorsements on respective meta page.
> I am also happy that there are people presenting their discord with 
> strategic direction in a constructive way on the endorsement 
> discussion page 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement>.
> I think that it is important not only to endorse or not endorse the 
> document, but also to give rationale why it is done. I believe that 
> this will help us in moving forward together with Phase 2 and learn as we go.
> As a result I have written a small essay in my user namespace 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Misosoof/
> Endorsement_of_Wikimedia2030>
> presenting some of the reasons why I am happy with what we have 
> achieved in phase 1 and with having a strategic direction for our 
> movement. You may agree or disagree, but I feel it is important to express 
> one's opinion.
> Also I encourage everyone else to share their reasons for liking or 
> disliking the direction with wider Wikimedia public, so we can learn 
> more and have even more meaningful phase 2.
> I thank you for your time and kind attention!
>
> Best regards,
> Kaarel Vaidla
>
> [1] Namely, Community Process Steering Committee 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Proc
> ess/
> Steering_Committee>,
> Track A Advisory Group
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Trac
> k_A/
> Advisory_Group>
> and Drafting Group
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ 
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> wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Movement Strategy: Endorse the strategic direction today! #wikimedia2030

2017-10-26 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
For the record, at the talk page of the endorsement page,

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement

we have a small number of contributors, including myself, who explain why
they refuse to endorse the document. I do not expect us to be heard though.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Kaarel Vaidla 
wrote:

> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>
> As a volunteer member of some of the support groups for phase 1 of movement
> strategy process [1], I am excited about the Endorsement Day and am one of
> the people who has *individually endorsed
>  movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement#Individual_contributors>*
> strategic
> direction
>  movement/2017/Direction>
> .
> With my letter to Wikimedia-l I would like to remind everyone that there is
> this possibilty of individual endorsement that may not have really been
> highlighted. So, if you personally feel like endorsing the direction, you
> are more than welcome to do that!
> I am happy to see already quite many endorsements on respective meta page.
> I am also happy that there are people presenting their discord with
> strategic direction in a constructive way on the endorsement discussion
> page
>  movement/2017/Direction/Endorsement>.
> I think that it is important not only to endorse or not endorse the
> document, but also to give rationale why it is done. I believe that this
> will help us in moving forward together with Phase 2 and learn as we go.
> As a result I have written a small essay in my user namespace
>  Endorsement_of_Wikimedia2030>
> presenting some of the reasons why I am happy with what we have achieved in
> phase 1 and with having a strategic direction for our movement. You may
> agree or disagree, but I feel it is important to express one's opinion.
> Also I encourage everyone else to share their reasons for liking or
> disliking the direction with wider Wikimedia public, so we can learn more
> and have even more meaningful phase 2.
> I thank you for your time and kind attention!
>
> Best regards,
> Kaarel Vaidla
>
> [1] Namely, Community Process Steering Committee
>  Steering_Committee>,
> Track A Advisory Group
>  Advisory_Group>
> and Drafting Group
>  movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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