Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-08 Thread Isla Haddow-Flood
Delphine, I don't think Gerard was responding to you but an earlier comment about his lack of compassion in the way he engages with people on this list no matter what their home language. I agree with your earlier post. I work with 2nd and 3rd and often 4th or 8th language speakers everyday and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-08 Thread Delphine Ménard
On 8 July 2016 at 14:47, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > What you say is how it works for you. At the same time you deny how it is > experienced by others. I do not want your compassion. What I want is for > people to use logic in their arguments and use their logic

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-08 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, What you say is how it works for you. At the same time you deny how it is experienced by others. I do not want your compassion. What I want is for people to use logic in their arguments and use their logic carefully. In a previous mail you said that you think I consider people dogs that have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-08 Thread Delphine Ménard
I disagree in so many ways with your words that I don't even know where to start. Compassion is not trying to put people in a lower position, or trying to put yourself in a higher position. It never has and never will be. Compassion is about caring for others and in that particular instance,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Yusuke Matsubara wrote: > Perhaps https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Writing_clearly as well? > > Perfect, thanks! I had already watchlisted that at some point, but I didn't find it whilst searching. I'll look around later, to see where else that page

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread rupert THURNER
le, > or you may not want to do so. It is your choice. > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: Thursday, 07 July 2016 10:00 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List &

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Peter Southwood
to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers Hoi, You forget the other part that is so vital. Compassion is for the weak, it puts you in a superior position. The problem is much more in the understanding of what someone else has to say. It is not only about sending, it is as much

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Johan Jönsson
2016-07-07 11:05 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell : > I agree! But what what does an icy stomach mean - to be strong? > In Swedish, to have ice in your stomach (ha is i magen) means to act slowly and deliberately, not rushing ahead without thinking everything through. And yes, keeping

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Jane Darnell
I agree! But what what does an icy stomach mean - to be strong? There are lots of Dutch expressions that my family has taken over and use regularly in English now such as "Now comes the monkey out of the sleeve" (revealing the hidden agenda), "Go your gang" (go ahead) and "That's mustard after the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, My native language is not English, my culture is not Anglocentric and I hate to be patronised. If that is best practice, you can enshrine it and not get a message out, your arguments heard and more importantly not hear what others are saying. Thanks, GerardM On 7 July 2016 at 10:32,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Anders Wennersten
Very good and also very accurate. It reminds it also works the other way. When I was in Australia 1979 discussing a delicate project proposal, I stated "to resolve this we need to have ice in the stomach " and getting a big question mark on everyone's face as a response. Iit seemed this well

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Vituzzu
I have a similar feeling while reading this article: the author has the best intentions but her attitude in doing them is way so wrong. Vito Il 07/07/2016 10:32, Bence Damokos ha scritto: Gerard, I for one do not really understand the point you are making..., especially as it relates to best

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Bence Damokos
Gerard, I for one do not really understand the point you are making..., especially as it relates to best practices in communicating across cultures and linguistic backgrounds. Best regards, Bence On Thursday, 7 July 2016, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > You forget

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, You forget the other part that is so vital. Compassion is for the weak, it puts you in a superior position. The problem is much more in the understanding of what someone else has to say. It is not only about sending, it is as much about receiving. Listening, understanding is where we have a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Michael Jahn
"it is not so much the words that are used but it is understanding what points are made and how they challenge the status quo." --> This may be true, and what we should strive for as a movement. But you still need words to make those points, and while one may fail to understand what points are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I have been thinking about what you say. The problem I see is that your attitude is one where you have to be compassionate for the benefit of people for whom English is a second language. What this means is that you see yourself as superior because your English is so great and they have a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-06 Thread Yusuke Matsubara
> 2016-07-05 21:59 GMT+02:00 Nick Wilson (Quiddity) : >> I'd like to link it on Metawiki, but I'm not sure where; Any suggestions? >> I've gotten (happily) lost in the [[Multilingual]] disambig page, and the >> [[Grants:Learning patterns]] pages, but the only place I can

Re: [Wikimedia-l] How to communicate compassionately with non-native English speakers

2016-07-06 Thread Birgit Müller
Nick, thanks for sharing! This is really awesome. (Or should I write: "This is helpful" to fit into the German stereotype? :D) Link it on Meta: I found https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Best_practices_in_giving_a_Wikipedia_presentation and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Presentations, but both