Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread Milos Rancic
Wikimedia is in the position to work with many institutions not
committed to open access, free software etc. That's not the problem.
The position of Wikimedia movement is in such position that it's not
just about free knowledge, but about common good of the whole
humanity. And (the most of) legitimate representatives of humanity are
outside open access, free content etc.

I've followed the issue of linguists vs. Elsevier. Although I don't
know the whole background, I could say that that particular
confrontation is not something we should react differently than giving
more prominence to open access journals.

However, this issue is a game changer. Elsevier attacks a member of
our own wider movement. And we are the only entity inside of that
wider movement capable to make a proper response. Which means that we
have to do that, as our responsibility in particular is related to our
wider movement.

If we send clear message, anyone willing to make that kind of pressure
to any entity inside of our wider movement would have to have in mind
that we will respond, as well.

If we fail to send such messages in the situation like this one, we
gamble with being perceived as weak.

As per John, it's not about removing references, as we are doing our
job and closed-source journals are one of the valid sources of
information. However, it is about formal relations between Wikimedia
Foundation, other Wikimedia organizations and Elsevier.



On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Andrea Zanni  wrote:
> I don't really mind WMF working with closed-access publishers, if that
> works.
> What I think is that we don't put the same effort  indoing something with
> the openaccess world: all the initiatives I know are volunteer-based.
>
> Two pop up in my mind:
> the Signalling Open Access project, aimed to put an icon aside every
> reference in Wikipedia, to signal if the article is OA or closed. Ask
> Daniel Mietchen for updates.
>
> The other one is the possibility of uploading thousands of articles in
> wikisource, directly in HTML. Remember, we have Wikipedia Zero: putting
> stuff onWikisource means having a free digital library to everyone. In the
> recent Wikisource conference in Vienna we talked about that too,  and rhere
> is an ongoing discussion in the English Wikisource.
>
> Both these two projects could have a huge impact on open access and in
> general for our mission, but they rely on the good will and free time of
> few individuals, and have done for years now.
>
> Aubrey
> Il 01/dic/2015 03:54 "John Mark Vandenberg"  ha scritto:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
>> > May we actually stop having anything with these pest?
>> >
>> > http://custodians.online/
>>
>> I dont believe we can stop using closed access journals, as that would
>> reduce the quality of our projects, but we can use links to them as an
>> opportunity to educate the public.
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Solidarity_with_Library_Genesis_and_Sci-Hub
>>
>> However WMF should discontinue its relationship with Elsevier and
>> Taylor & Francis via the 'Wikipedia Library'.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Elsevier_ScienceDirect
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taylor_%26_Francis
>>
>> --
>> John Vandenberg
>>
>> ___
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>> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread Pine W
A chronic problem for most of the movement is a shortage of human
resources, both volunteer and paid. Hopefully the work of Aaron H. and
company on revision scoring will help us to keep more of our good-faith
newbies. I also think that the bitey-ness of some Wikimedians can be
counterproductive, and I'd like to see broad improvements in civility on
our projects which I hope would correlate with improved contributor
retention.

I agree that it would be good to have more open access sources available,
and I like the concept of open access signalling.

I'm happy to talk about the human resources shortage issue in more depth;
let's fork that subject if there is interest in continuing to discuss it.

Pine
On Dec 1, 2015 12:22 AM, "Andrea Zanni"  wrote:

> I don't really mind WMF working with closed-access publishers, if that
> works.
> What I think is that we don't put the same effort  indoing something with
> the openaccess world: all the initiatives I know are volunteer-based.
>
> Two pop up in my mind:
> the Signalling Open Access project, aimed to put an icon aside every
> reference in Wikipedia, to signal if the article is OA or closed. Ask
> Daniel Mietchen for updates.
>
> The other one is the possibility of uploading thousands of articles in
> wikisource, directly in HTML. Remember, we have Wikipedia Zero: putting
> stuff onWikisource means having a free digital library to everyone. In the
> recent Wikisource conference in Vienna we talked about that too,  and rhere
> is an ongoing discussion in the English Wikisource.
>
> Both these two projects could have a huge impact on open access and in
> general for our mission, but they rely on the good will and free time of
> few individuals, and have done for years now.
>
> Aubrey
> Il 01/dic/2015 03:54 "John Mark Vandenberg"  ha scritto:
>
> > On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> > > May we actually stop having anything with these pest?
> > >
> > > http://custodians.online/
> >
> > I dont believe we can stop using closed access journals, as that would
> > reduce the quality of our projects, but we can use links to them as an
> > opportunity to educate the public.
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Solidarity_with_Library_Genesis_and_Sci-Hub
> >
> > However WMF should discontinue its relationship with Elsevier and
> > Taylor & Francis via the 'Wikipedia Library'.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Elsevier_ScienceDirect
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taylor_%26_Francis
> >
> > --
> > John Vandenberg
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread Pine W
According to
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero_Template_Agreement and
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:WikiProject_Open_Access/Programmatic_import_from_PubMed_Central,
the answer appears to be yes that Wikipedia Zero now includes Wikisource.
(It would be good to get clarification on whether all the services
described on Foundation wiki are automatically included in Wikipedia Zero,
included on a per-carrier basis, or some other scheme.)

Pine
On Dec 1, 2015 12:29 AM, "John Mark Vandenberg"  wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Andrea Zanni 
> wrote:
> > I don't really mind WMF working with closed-access publishers, if that
> > works.
> > What I think is that we don't put the same effort  indoing something with
> > the openaccess world: all the initiatives I know are volunteer-based.
> >
> > Two pop up in my mind:
> > the Signalling Open Access project, aimed to put an icon aside every
> > reference in Wikipedia, to signal if the article is OA or closed. Ask
> > Daniel Mietchen for updates.
> >
> > The other one is the possibility of uploading thousands of articles in
> > wikisource, directly in HTML. Remember, we have Wikipedia Zero: putting
> > stuff onWikisource means having a free digital library to everyone.
>
> According to https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mobile_partnerships
> and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero , it is Wikipedia
> only.
> Is that out of date?  Does it now include Wikisource?
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread Pete Forsyth
For what it's worth, we had a panel discussion at WMF about this, with Open
Access advocates and staff from WMF. Freely licensed video of the session
is available on YouTube. See here for video links:
http://wikistrategies.net/oa-Wikipedia-panel/

One of our panelists, John Dove, wrote a follow-up blog post; others are in
the works.

Pete
[[User: Peteforsyth]]

https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/11/12/open-access-in-closed-access-world/
On Nov 30, 2015 6:33 PM, "Milos Rancic"  wrote:

> May we actually stop having anything with these pest?
>
> http://custodians.online/
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread Andrea Zanni
I don't really mind WMF working with closed-access publishers, if that
works.
What I think is that we don't put the same effort  indoing something with
the openaccess world: all the initiatives I know are volunteer-based.

Two pop up in my mind:
the Signalling Open Access project, aimed to put an icon aside every
reference in Wikipedia, to signal if the article is OA or closed. Ask
Daniel Mietchen for updates.

The other one is the possibility of uploading thousands of articles in
wikisource, directly in HTML. Remember, we have Wikipedia Zero: putting
stuff onWikisource means having a free digital library to everyone. In the
recent Wikisource conference in Vienna we talked about that too,  and rhere
is an ongoing discussion in the English Wikisource.

Both these two projects could have a huge impact on open access and in
general for our mission, but they rely on the good will and free time of
few individuals, and have done for years now.

Aubrey
Il 01/dic/2015 03:54 "John Mark Vandenberg"  ha scritto:

> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> > May we actually stop having anything with these pest?
> >
> > http://custodians.online/
>
> I dont believe we can stop using closed access journals, as that would
> reduce the quality of our projects, but we can use links to them as an
> opportunity to educate the public.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Solidarity_with_Library_Genesis_and_Sci-Hub
>
> However WMF should discontinue its relationship with Elsevier and
> Taylor & Francis via the 'Wikipedia Library'.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Elsevier_ScienceDirect
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taylor_%26_Francis
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread John Mark Vandenberg
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Andrea Zanni  wrote:
> I don't really mind WMF working with closed-access publishers, if that
> works.
> What I think is that we don't put the same effort  indoing something with
> the openaccess world: all the initiatives I know are volunteer-based.
>
> Two pop up in my mind:
> the Signalling Open Access project, aimed to put an icon aside every
> reference in Wikipedia, to signal if the article is OA or closed. Ask
> Daniel Mietchen for updates.
>
> The other one is the possibility of uploading thousands of articles in
> wikisource, directly in HTML. Remember, we have Wikipedia Zero: putting
> stuff onWikisource means having a free digital library to everyone.

According to https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mobile_partnerships
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero , it is Wikipedia
only.
Is that out of date?  Does it now include Wikisource?

-- 
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-12-01 Thread Lane Rasberry
Hello,

I felt strongly enough about Wikipedia's relationship with open access
content that I wrote about the issue.
<
http://bluerasberry.com/2015/10/wikipedia-open-access-and-the-wikipedia-library/
>

yours,

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 4:07 AM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> For what it's worth, we had a panel discussion at WMF about this, with Open
> Access advocates and staff from WMF. Freely licensed video of the session
> is available on YouTube. See here for video links:
> http://wikistrategies.net/oa-Wikipedia-panel/
>
> One of our panelists, John Dove, wrote a follow-up blog post; others are in
> the works.
>
> Pete
> [[User: Peteforsyth]]
>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/11/12/open-access-in-closed-access-world/
> On Nov 30, 2015 6:33 PM, "Milos Rancic"  wrote:
>
> > May we actually stop having anything with these pest?
> >
> > http://custodians.online/
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
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> 
>



-- 
Lane Rasberry
user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
206.801.0814
l...@bluerasberry.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-hub

2015-11-30 Thread John Mark Vandenberg
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> May we actually stop having anything with these pest?
>
> http://custodians.online/

I dont believe we can stop using closed access journals, as that would
reduce the quality of our projects, but we can use links to them as an
opportunity to educate the public.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28idea_lab%29#Solidarity_with_Library_Genesis_and_Sci-Hub

However WMF should discontinue its relationship with Elsevier and
Taylor & Francis via the 'Wikipedia Library'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Elsevier_ScienceDirect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Taylor_%26_Francis

--
John Vandenberg

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