Re: [Wikimedia-l] Jamal Khashoggi's call to action

2018-10-20 Thread Mathieu Lovato Stumpf Guntz 

Hi Erik,

Le 18/10/2018 à 04:51, Erik Moeller a écrit :

I'm wondering what folks in the Wikimedia community and movement make
of this call to action. Is there more that Wikimedia can do, for
example, to support translation of news articles into many languages?

There is nothing in Jamal's own op-ed that indicates that it would be
legally permissible to translate it. This is, unfortunately, the norm
for news; there are few outlets that use a Creative Commons license,
and those that do, typically tend to choose the most restrictive
variants.


What we already have is Wikinews, which use CC-BY-2.5 following a 
community pool of 2005 : 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/Licensure_Poll


It seems that the content translation extension is not installed on 
Wikinews:


 * https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Version
 * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation

So installing it might be a way to lower the barrier on this point.

Of course this is not the only issue why Wikinews doesn't attract that 
many people, there are already plethora of analyzes of the subject out 
there I guess, here is one: 
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Wikinews-so-under-used


Personally, which sadly resonate with the terrible story of Jamal 
Khashoggi, I would add additional uncertainty for mere citizen compared 
to a professional journalist. That said I'm not very knowledgeable about 
this, are secret of sources usable by any citizen which would publish 
something on Wikinews? Documenting risks and how to mitigate them when 
contributing to Wikinews might be an other way to improve what we 
already provide.


With all my sympathy to Jamal's relatives and all journalists around the 
world risking their lives in the name of truth,

Mathieu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Jamal Khashoggi's call to action

2018-10-19 Thread Jane Darnell 
Apparently his editor Karen Attiah at WaPo has already made Khashoggi's
works available in Arabic (I assume everything was published originally in
English, but not sure)
https://twitter.com/KarenAttiah/status/1052150458960281600

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 2:50 AM Samuel Klein  wrote:

> The Global Voices translation team
>  may have
> thoughts.   Syndication services may help use of the translations begets
> interest.
> Perhaps process insight from the AP?
>
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:52 PM Erik Moeller  wrote:
>
> > Up until recently, Saudi Arabian journalist Jamal Khashoggi worked for
> > the Washington Post. What happened to him? I couldn't say it better
> > than Wikipedia: [1]
> >
> > (begin quote)
> >
> >   On 2 October 2018, Khashoggi entered the Saudi Arabian consulate in
> >   Istanbul to obtain documents related to his marriage; he never left the
> >   building and was subsequently declared a missing person.
> >   Anonymous Turkish police sources have alleged that he was murdered
> >   and dismembered inside the consulate.
> >
> > (end quote)
> >
> > The Washington Post has now published Khashoggi's last column, titled
> > appropriately, "What the Arab world needs most is free expression".
> > [2] In it, he writes of the need for translation efforts and platforms
> > for free expression:
> >
> > (begin quote)
> >
> >   Arabs need to read in their own language so they can understand
> >   and discuss the various aspects and complications of democracy
> >   in the United States and the West. If an Egyptian reads an article
> >   exposing the actual cost of a construction project in Washington,
> >   then he or she would be able to better understand the implications
> >   of similar projects in his or her community.
> >
> >   The Arab world needs a modern version of the old transnational
> >   media so citizens can be informed about global events. More
> >   important, we need to provide a platform for Arab voices. We
> >   suffer from poverty, mismanagement and poor education.
> >   Through the creation of an independent international forum,
> >   isolated from the influence of nationalist governments
> >   spreading hate through propaganda, ordinary people in the
> >   Arab world would be able to address the structural problems
> >   their societies face.
> >
> > (end quote)
> >
> > I'm wondering what folks in the Wikimedia community and movement make
> > of this call to action. Is there more that Wikimedia can do, for
> > example, to support translation of news articles into many languages?
> >
> > There is nothing in Jamal's own op-ed that indicates that it would be
> > legally permissible to translate it. This is, unfortunately, the norm
> > for news; there are few outlets that use a Creative Commons license,
> > and those that do, typically tend to choose the most restrictive
> > variants.
> >
> > Perhaps there would be value in an organized community effort that
> > would pick up news articles [3] that _are_ licensed under free
> > licenses, and translate them into as many languages as possible. If
> > launched under a prominent umbrella -- e.g., Wikimedia --, this might
> > then also help incentivize more outlets to selectively license content
> > openly, permitting translation. Beyond its intrinsic value, such an
> > effort would also help the Wikimedia projects by expanding the reach
> > of impacted citations into more languages.
> >
> > Thoughts? Does Jamal's call to action resonate in other ways with
> > Wikimedia's mission?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi -- written by
> > multiple authors and distributed under Creative Commons Attribution
> > ShareAlike-License 3.0 Unported
> >
> > [2]
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/jamal-khashoggi-what-the-arab-world-needs-most-is-free-expression/2018/10/17/adfc8c44-d21d-11e8-8c22-fa2ef74bd6d6_story.html
> > -- quoted as fair use
> >
> > [3] Likely restricted to some subset of outlets, e.g., sources most
> > Wikipedia editions would accept as citations
> >
> > ___
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> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Jamal Khashoggi's call to action

2018-10-18 Thread Samuel Klein 
The Global Voices translation team
 may have
thoughts.   Syndication services may help use of the translations begets
interest.
Perhaps process insight from the AP?

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:52 PM Erik Moeller  wrote:

> Up until recently, Saudi Arabian journalist Jamal Khashoggi worked for
> the Washington Post. What happened to him? I couldn't say it better
> than Wikipedia: [1]
>
> (begin quote)
>
>   On 2 October 2018, Khashoggi entered the Saudi Arabian consulate in
>   Istanbul to obtain documents related to his marriage; he never left the
>   building and was subsequently declared a missing person.
>   Anonymous Turkish police sources have alleged that he was murdered
>   and dismembered inside the consulate.
>
> (end quote)
>
> The Washington Post has now published Khashoggi's last column, titled
> appropriately, "What the Arab world needs most is free expression".
> [2] In it, he writes of the need for translation efforts and platforms
> for free expression:
>
> (begin quote)
>
>   Arabs need to read in their own language so they can understand
>   and discuss the various aspects and complications of democracy
>   in the United States and the West. If an Egyptian reads an article
>   exposing the actual cost of a construction project in Washington,
>   then he or she would be able to better understand the implications
>   of similar projects in his or her community.
>
>   The Arab world needs a modern version of the old transnational
>   media so citizens can be informed about global events. More
>   important, we need to provide a platform for Arab voices. We
>   suffer from poverty, mismanagement and poor education.
>   Through the creation of an independent international forum,
>   isolated from the influence of nationalist governments
>   spreading hate through propaganda, ordinary people in the
>   Arab world would be able to address the structural problems
>   their societies face.
>
> (end quote)
>
> I'm wondering what folks in the Wikimedia community and movement make
> of this call to action. Is there more that Wikimedia can do, for
> example, to support translation of news articles into many languages?
>
> There is nothing in Jamal's own op-ed that indicates that it would be
> legally permissible to translate it. This is, unfortunately, the norm
> for news; there are few outlets that use a Creative Commons license,
> and those that do, typically tend to choose the most restrictive
> variants.
>
> Perhaps there would be value in an organized community effort that
> would pick up news articles [3] that _are_ licensed under free
> licenses, and translate them into as many languages as possible. If
> launched under a prominent umbrella -- e.g., Wikimedia --, this might
> then also help incentivize more outlets to selectively license content
> openly, permitting translation. Beyond its intrinsic value, such an
> effort would also help the Wikimedia projects by expanding the reach
> of impacted citations into more languages.
>
> Thoughts? Does Jamal's call to action resonate in other ways with
> Wikimedia's mission?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Erik
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi -- written by
> multiple authors and distributed under Creative Commons Attribution
> ShareAlike-License 3.0 Unported
>
> [2]
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/jamal-khashoggi-what-the-arab-world-needs-most-is-free-expression/2018/10/17/adfc8c44-d21d-11e8-8c22-fa2ef74bd6d6_story.html
> -- quoted as fair use
>
> [3] Likely restricted to some subset of outlets, e.g., sources most
> Wikipedia editions would accept as citations
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 



-- 
Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
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