Re: [Wikimedia-l] NC and ND content (was: Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations...)

2019-08-12 Thread Todd Allen
NC would also create a nightmare for downstream reusers.

If I want to use some portions of a Wikipedia article in a blog post, and I
have a couple ads on my blog to help defray the hosting costs, does that
violate NC? And certainly the stuff James brings up, regarding providing
mechanisms for offline access, even if no profit is made from such an
endeavor and the "sale" only helps to defray part of the costs.

The decision to require open content licenses was not an arbitrary one.
When we say "The free encyclopedia", that means in terms of "libre", not
just "gratis". Sure, we can legally use "noncommercial" or "no derivatives"
or "for educational purposes only" licensed works--but our users cannot
reuse it, and that they can do that has always been part of what we have
promised them. Our current minimal acceptance of nonfree content already
makes that a bit of a morass for would-be reusers; doing so on a wide scale
would make it a hopeless minefield.

Todd

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 7:45 AM James Heilman  wrote:

> Yah I have mixed feelings about NC. There is a lot of great content under
> this license which would benefit our readers if we could use it. We for
> example have folks like Khan Academy and the World Health Organization who
> refuse to adopt open licenses. They tell us that we can use their content
> right now as we are a non commercial project but that they will not chance.
>
> Yet us allowing NC will keep us from forcing those who are currently using
> this horribly unclear license to adopt an actual open one. I have had those
> who create NC context explicitly say we CANNOT use it on
> "Internet-in-a-Box" as even though we are selling the devices at below the
> cost of making them in the developing world, they are still being sold.
> This makes me want to have nothing to do with NC.
>
> ND is even worse. This means we cannot translate content and I am not
> interested in seeing us adopt anything which we cannot translate.
>
> James
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:29 PM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > There was once a report in which I read: Wikimedia Commons should allow
> NC
> > and ND content because that is somehow good for "communities that are
> > historically prohibited from telling their stories".
> > Then I asked on the talk page for the reasoning behind this
> > demand/postulation.
> > The answer I got was not very substantial.
> > I am very open to discuss the pros and cons of e.g. opening Wikimedia
> > Commons to NC or ND. But sorry, I find it very difficult to have a
> > meaningful conversation on this basis.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Reports/March-April_Community_Conversations_Monthly_Report
> >
> >
> > Am Fr., 9. Aug. 2019 um 20:37 Uhr schrieb Nicole Ebber <
> > nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de>:
> >
> > > Dear fellow Wikimedians,
> > >
> > > They’re here! [1] We are delighted to announce the first round of
> > > draft recommendations for structural change within our movement have
> > > been published. The recommendations have been developed by the nine
> > > Wikimedia 2030 working groups and are a key tool to help us build the
> > > future of our movement.
> > >
> > > Working group members have been working tirelessly for a year to
> > > research the movement, analyze community input shared via community
> > > conversations, and gain insight into external trends. A huge thank you
> > > to each and every member for helping us reach this key milestone.
> > >
> > > The draft recommendations are a first look at ways we can adapt our
> > > movement’s structures to help us advance in our strategic direction.
> > > They are the starting point for conversations about what kind of
> > > future we want to create together.
> > >
> > > The recommendations are not final. In order to get them to that stage,
> > > your input is needed! We would like to hear from you all what these
> > > changes would mean for you in your local or thematic context, what do
> > > you like about them, and where you potentially see any red flags. And
> > > of course, always critically question whether these recommendations
> > > support the strategic direction.
> > >
> > > There are a few ways to do this:
> > > * Read through the recommendations online and provide your input
> > > directly on Meta. [2]
> > > * If you will be at Wikimania, join us in the Wikimedia 2030 space. [3]
> > > * Attend a Strategy Salon hosted by an affiliate where you live. [4]
> > > * Reach out to a Strategy Liaison in your language to share feedback,
> > > or lead a conversation of your own. [5]
> > >
> > > Over the next month, working groups will take the input they receive
> > > into the recommendations, alongside external advice and research, and
> > > use it to refine and finalize them. Share your views, and help shape
> > > what Wikimedia will look like in 2030 and beyond.
> > >
> > > If you have any questions or feedback, please feel 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] NC and ND content (was: Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations...)

2019-08-12 Thread James Heilman
Yah I have mixed feelings about NC. There is a lot of great content under
this license which would benefit our readers if we could use it. We for
example have folks like Khan Academy and the World Health Organization who
refuse to adopt open licenses. They tell us that we can use their content
right now as we are a non commercial project but that they will not chance.

Yet us allowing NC will keep us from forcing those who are currently using
this horribly unclear license to adopt an actual open one. I have had those
who create NC context explicitly say we CANNOT use it on
"Internet-in-a-Box" as even though we are selling the devices at below the
cost of making them in the developing world, they are still being sold.
This makes me want to have nothing to do with NC.

ND is even worse. This means we cannot translate content and I am not
interested in seeing us adopt anything which we cannot translate.

James

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:29 PM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> There was once a report in which I read: Wikimedia Commons should allow NC
> and ND content because that is somehow good for "communities that are
> historically prohibited from telling their stories".
> Then I asked on the talk page for the reasoning behind this
> demand/postulation.
> The answer I got was not very substantial.
> I am very open to discuss the pros and cons of e.g. opening Wikimedia
> Commons to NC or ND. But sorry, I find it very difficult to have a
> meaningful conversation on this basis.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Reports/March-April_Community_Conversations_Monthly_Report
>
>
> Am Fr., 9. Aug. 2019 um 20:37 Uhr schrieb Nicole Ebber <
> nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de>:
>
> > Dear fellow Wikimedians,
> >
> > They’re here! [1] We are delighted to announce the first round of
> > draft recommendations for structural change within our movement have
> > been published. The recommendations have been developed by the nine
> > Wikimedia 2030 working groups and are a key tool to help us build the
> > future of our movement.
> >
> > Working group members have been working tirelessly for a year to
> > research the movement, analyze community input shared via community
> > conversations, and gain insight into external trends. A huge thank you
> > to each and every member for helping us reach this key milestone.
> >
> > The draft recommendations are a first look at ways we can adapt our
> > movement’s structures to help us advance in our strategic direction.
> > They are the starting point for conversations about what kind of
> > future we want to create together.
> >
> > The recommendations are not final. In order to get them to that stage,
> > your input is needed! We would like to hear from you all what these
> > changes would mean for you in your local or thematic context, what do
> > you like about them, and where you potentially see any red flags. And
> > of course, always critically question whether these recommendations
> > support the strategic direction.
> >
> > There are a few ways to do this:
> > * Read through the recommendations online and provide your input
> > directly on Meta. [2]
> > * If you will be at Wikimania, join us in the Wikimedia 2030 space. [3]
> > * Attend a Strategy Salon hosted by an affiliate where you live. [4]
> > * Reach out to a Strategy Liaison in your language to share feedback,
> > or lead a conversation of your own. [5]
> >
> > Over the next month, working groups will take the input they receive
> > into the recommendations, alongside external advice and research, and
> > use it to refine and finalize them. Share your views, and help shape
> > what Wikimedia will look like in 2030 and beyond.
> >
> > If you have any questions or feedback, please feel free to get in touch.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Nicole
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> > [2]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> > [3] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Wikimedia_2030
> > [4]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Strategy_Salons
> > [5]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People/Community_Strategy_Liaisons
> >
> > --
> > Nicole Ebber
> > Adviser International Relations
> > Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > https://wikimedia.de
> >
> > Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der
> > Menschheit teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns
> > dabei! https://spenden.wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig

Re: [Wikimedia-l] NC and ND content (was: Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations...)

2019-08-12 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello,

There was once a report in which I read: Wikimedia Commons should allow NC
and ND content because that is somehow good for "communities that are
historically prohibited from telling their stories".
Then I asked on the talk page for the reasoning behind this
demand/postulation.
The answer I got was not very substantial.
I am very open to discuss the pros and cons of e.g. opening Wikimedia
Commons to NC or ND. But sorry, I find it very difficult to have a
meaningful conversation on this basis.

Kind regards
Ziko


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Reports/March-April_Community_Conversations_Monthly_Report


Am Fr., 9. Aug. 2019 um 20:37 Uhr schrieb Nicole Ebber <
nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de>:

> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>
> They’re here! [1] We are delighted to announce the first round of
> draft recommendations for structural change within our movement have
> been published. The recommendations have been developed by the nine
> Wikimedia 2030 working groups and are a key tool to help us build the
> future of our movement.
>
> Working group members have been working tirelessly for a year to
> research the movement, analyze community input shared via community
> conversations, and gain insight into external trends. A huge thank you
> to each and every member for helping us reach this key milestone.
>
> The draft recommendations are a first look at ways we can adapt our
> movement’s structures to help us advance in our strategic direction.
> They are the starting point for conversations about what kind of
> future we want to create together.
>
> The recommendations are not final. In order to get them to that stage,
> your input is needed! We would like to hear from you all what these
> changes would mean for you in your local or thematic context, what do
> you like about them, and where you potentially see any red flags. And
> of course, always critically question whether these recommendations
> support the strategic direction.
>
> There are a few ways to do this:
> * Read through the recommendations online and provide your input
> directly on Meta. [2]
> * If you will be at Wikimania, join us in the Wikimedia 2030 space. [3]
> * Attend a Strategy Salon hosted by an affiliate where you live. [4]
> * Reach out to a Strategy Liaison in your language to share feedback,
> or lead a conversation of your own. [5]
>
> Over the next month, working groups will take the input they receive
> into the recommendations, alongside external advice and research, and
> use it to refine and finalize them. Share your views, and help shape
> what Wikimedia will look like in 2030 and beyond.
>
> If you have any questions or feedback, please feel free to get in touch.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Nicole
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> [3] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Wikimedia_2030
> [4]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Strategy_Salons
> [5]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People/Community_Strategy_Liaisons
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Adviser International Relations
> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> https://wikimedia.de
>
> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der
> Menschheit teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns
> dabei! https://spenden.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
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