Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-21 Thread
Thank you for a sensible response. Hopefully Wikimedia Belgium will be able later to publish some agreed recommendations or conclusions, both for how this case could have been handled more appropriately, and how the WMF procedures or policies should improve better to protect the interests of all

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-21 Thread Geert Van Pamel
The initial message was a private message from Romaine (WMBE Board member) on his own initiative; not verified, nor approved by (the Board of) Wikimedia Belgium. Please read this reply carefully in order to try to bring more clarity. I have immediately notified Romaine that he abused his function

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Isaac Olatunde
The "sender is Romaine" is not the same as "Romaine is WMBE". This sort of confusion should have been prevented by allowing another person to send this email on behalf of WMBE. Regards, Isaac On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 3:48 PM Dariusz Jemielniak > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM Michel

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Ciell Wikipedia
Hello Caroline, I'm very sorry for what happened back in Capetown and that today you are reminded of this again through a public mailing list, where the story is starting to lead it's own life. I can only imagine that you felt the need to correct this misinterpretation of what happened to you. I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Caroline Becker
I was forced to step up *today* on this mailing list because the description of the WIkimania 2018 incident in the first mail was false: the claim that "none of us expressed there was a problem" is simply not what happened. And by the way this is exactly why the details of stuff like that are NOT

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi Dariusz, I understand Caroline wanted to add that she was finding difficult that Romain was not aware of her stress or unease on a specific situation vaguely described there (without any mention to her at all). And that later they have talked about it, and she accepted his apologies for that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
Hi Paulo, On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:54 PM Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: " I'm referring to message from Caroline" - How have you jumped from Caroline wanting to further clarify something, to the conclusion that the OP was "pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward"? I'm

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Gabriel Thullen
Thank you WMBE for your long report. I was at Wikimania 2018 and I was deeply troubled by the actions taken by the Trust & Safety team. I now have a much clearer understanding of what went on, and I feel that there really needs to be some introspection done by the Trust & Safety team. I am also

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
" I'm referring to message from Caroline" - How have you jumped from Caroline wanting to further clarify something, to the conclusion that the OP was "pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward"? Yes, she claims to have been "forced to step up", but were you able to find any

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello, It seems to me the best that a (different) member of the WMBE board contacts a suitable person at WMF. A public list is not the best place for sorting these things out. Kind regards Ziko Am Mo., 17. Juni 2019 um 16:48 Uhr schrieb Dariusz Jemielniak : > > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM Michel Vuijlsteke mailto:wikipe...@zog.org>> wrote: In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a rumour about them? My understanding is that noone was banned from an event. On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
I'm comparing it to a case where spreading of rumors led to the condemnation of presumably innocent people without due process, in a kind of "precautionary principle". The punishment in question is immaterial to this case. Or will you argue that an episode is only worth of attention if people are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Amir Sarabadani
Are you comparing banning someone to participate at conference(s) with hanging innocent people? On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:34 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: > " In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a > rumour about them" - that's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
" In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a rumour about them" - that's Wikimedia version of the Salem witch trials. Unbelievable that this sort of thing is coming from one of the WMF trustees, even as a personal opinion. Paulo Michel Vuijlsteke escreveu no dia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Isaac Olatunde
Considering that it was sent by that person, one may reasonably conclude that it was written by them. That being said, I do not want to believe that it was not reviewed and approved by the governing board (assuming it was written by that person). BUT if it was written by another person, reviewed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Dariusz, I've read and reread the WMBE message, and have not found anything near "pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward". I also do not understand why you're addressing WMBE as "Romaine" (begging the question?). Can you please clarify? Paulo Dariusz Jemielniak

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Michel Vuijlsteke
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 16:12, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote: >If there are rumors about physical violence, unbelievable as they may seem, >the bottom line common sense is to approach the alleged would-be attacker and >request politely that they stay away, to deescalate even just a potentially tense

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
whoa! pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward is not ok at all. I do not honestly understand why the story from nearly a year ago has emerged, with personal details. It is not unusual for people who caused distress to not have done it intentionally, and to genuinely

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Thomas Townsend
Am I right in thinking that this email, containing a long account of the alleged poor treatment of the Treasurer of WMBE, referred to throughout in the third person, was in fact written by that person? The Turnip On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 10:00, Romaine Wiki wrote: > > Hello all, > > On Saturday

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Caroline Becker
Hi all, I have no opinion whatsoever about all the things going on in this mail, except for this part : Three additional anonymous complaints were: * speaking to loud * standing to close * having touched someone's hand/arm It must be noted that *none* of the people that complained to the Trust