Thank you for a sensible response.
Hopefully Wikimedia Belgium will be able later to publish some agreed
recommendations or conclusions, both for how this case could have been
handled more appropriately, and how the WMF procedures or policies
should improve better to protect the interests of all
The initial message was a private message from Romaine (WMBE Board member)
on his own initiative; not verified, nor approved by (the Board of)
Wikimedia Belgium. Please read this reply carefully in order to try to bring
I have immediately notified Romaine that he abused his function
The "sender is Romaine" is not the same as "Romaine is WMBE". This sort of
confusion should have been prevented by allowing another person to send
this email on behalf of WMBE.
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 3:48 PM Dariusz Jemielniak
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM Michel
I'm very sorry for what happened back in Capetown and that today you are
reminded of this again through a public mailing list, where the story is
starting to lead it's own life. I can only imagine that you felt the need
to correct this misinterpretation of what happened to you.
I was forced to step up *today* on this mailing list because the
description of the WIkimania 2018 incident in the first mail was false: the
claim that "none of us expressed there was a problem" is simply not what
And by the way this is exactly why the details of stuff like that are NOT
I understand Caroline wanted to add that she was finding difficult that
Romain was not aware of her stress or unease on a specific situation
vaguely described there (without any mention to her at all). And that later
they have talked about it, and she accepted his apologies for that
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:54 PM Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
" I'm referring to message from Caroline" - How have you jumped from Caroline
wanting to further clarify something, to the conclusion that the OP was
"pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward"?
Thank you WMBE for your long report.
I was at Wikimania 2018 and I was deeply troubled by the actions taken by
the Trust & Safety team. I now have a much clearer understanding of what
went on, and I feel that there really needs to be some introspection done
by the Trust & Safety team.
I am also
" I'm referring to message from Caroline" - How have you jumped from
Caroline wanting to further clarify something, to the conclusion that the
OP was "pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward"?
Yes, she claims to have been "forced to step up", but were you able to find
It seems to me the best that a (different) member of the WMBE board
contacts a suitable person at WMF. A public list is not the best place
for sorting these things out.
Am Mo., 17. Juni 2019 um 16:48 Uhr schrieb Dariusz Jemielniak
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM Michel Vuijlsteke
In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a
rumour about them?
My understanding is that noone was banned from an event.
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta
I'm comparing it to a case where spreading of rumors led to the
condemnation of presumably innocent people without due process, in a kind
of "precautionary principle".
The punishment in question is immaterial to this case. Or will you argue
that an episode is only worth of attention if people are
Are you comparing banning someone to participate at conference(s) with
hanging innocent people?
On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:34 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> " In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a
> rumour about them" - that's
" In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a
rumour about them" - that's Wikimedia version of the Salem witch trials.
Unbelievable that this sort of thing is coming from one of the WMF
trustees, even as a personal opinion.
Michel Vuijlsteke escreveu no dia
Considering that it was sent by that person, one may reasonably conclude
that it was written by them. That being said, I do not want to believe that
it was not reviewed and approved by the governing board (assuming it was
written by that person). BUT if it was written by another person, reviewed
I've read and reread the WMBE message, and have not found anything near
"pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward".
I also do not understand why you're addressing WMBE as "Romaine" (begging
Can you please clarify?
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 16:12, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:
>If there are rumors about physical violence, unbelievable as they may seem,
>the bottom line common sense is to approach the alleged would-be attacker
>request politely that they stay away, to deescalate even just a
pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward is not ok at
all. I do not honestly understand why the story from nearly a year ago has
emerged, with personal details.
It is not unusual for people who caused distress to not have done it
intentionally, and to genuinely
Am I right in thinking that this email, containing a long account of
the alleged poor treatment of the Treasurer of WMBE, referred to
throughout in the third person, was in fact written by that person?
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 10:00, Romaine Wiki wrote:
> Hello all,
> On Saturday
I have no opinion whatsoever about all the things going on in this mail,
except for this part :
Three additional anonymous complaints were:
* speaking to loud
* standing to close
* having touched someone's hand/arm
It must be noted that *none* of the people that complained to the Trust
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