Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-03 Thread Jane Darnell
This is a good idea in theory, but the tags-per-country could become endless, and I wonder who would be brave enough to upload images to such a project, as the uploader would be responsible for the freeness of the uploaded content and the associated completeness of license tags. Perhaps if you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread geni
On 2 March 2014 08:55, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 March 2014 02:01, Mark delir...@hackish.org wrote: I personally would welcome more attention to our actual mission, producing free content, rather than the mission some of our members seem to be engaged in, making the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Chris McKenna
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014, geni wrote: On 2 March 2014 08:55, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 March 2014 02:01, Mark delir...@hackish.org wrote: I personally would welcome more attention to our actual mission, producing free content, rather than the mission some of our members seem to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2014 16:31, Chris McKenna cmcke...@sucs.org wrote: These days I wouldn't dare upload an image that was not either my own work or public doman due to life+100 because I couldn't guarantee that it wont be delted. Even with my own work I'm wary because of recent cases of amateur

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Mark
On 3/2/14, 5:31 PM, Chris McKenna wrote: There seems to be a disconnect between what Commons sees as it's mission: To be a repository of Free media; and what other projects see as Commons' mission: To be a repository of media for use on Wikimedia projects. But since the other Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Richard Symonds
One possible approach is certainly to choose a representative country per language, and define freeness as only free in that country specifically. So en.wiki's ambition is to be free only for Americans. Perhaps es.wiki's goal will be to be free for Spaniards, and/or Argentinians. de.wiki will be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2014 16:56, Mark delir...@hackish.org wrote: On 3/2/14, 5:31 PM, Chris McKenna wrote: There is a further disconnect in that Commons is taking an increasingly ultra-conservative approach to the definition of Free, whereas most other projects are working to a definition of Free for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Chris McKenna
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014, Mark wrote: On 3/2/14, 5:31 PM, Chris McKenna wrote: There seems to be a disconnect between what Commons sees as it's mission: To be a repository of Free media; and what other projects see as Commons' mission: To be a repository of media for use on Wikimedia projects. But

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread geni
On 2 March 2014 20:50, Chris McKenna cmcke...@sucs.org wrote: On Sun, 2 Mar 2014, Mark wrote: On 3/2/14, 5:31 PM, Chris McKenna wrote: There seems to be a disconnect between what Commons sees as it's mission: To be a repository of Free media; and what other projects see as Commons'

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2014 13:51, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: Its a pretty accurate description. What do you think the law says? It's possible, if you want people and organisations to stop their moves against you, that snideness and word play may not serve to convince them that you have any evidenced

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Avenue
On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 8:50 PM, Chris McKenna cmcke...@sucs.org wrote: You've missed the point. Commons is not at present a reliable source of media, Free or otherwise, because media gets deleted because once someone alleges that it is not free it gets deleted if the original uploader cannot

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread geni
On 2 March 2014 16:35, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed. The extreme paranoia over images people created themselves versus the ridiculously sloppy standards for anything on Flickr (a bot can't meaningfully verify an image) makes Commons merely seem capricious. No the same

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread ???
On 02/03/2014 01:26, geni wrote: On 1 March 2014 23:59, ??? wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/03/2014 23:06, geni wrote: On 1 March 2014 19:58, ??? wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: You have no guarantee that the account that the images were scraped from held the copyright in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread geni
On 2 March 2014 22:20, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 March 2014 13:51, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: Its a pretty accurate description. What do you think the law says? It's possible, if you want people and organisations to stop their moves against you, that snideness and word

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Mark
On 3/2/14, 6:17 PM, David Gerard wrote: On 2 March 2014 16:56, Mark delir...@hackish.org wrote: On 3/2/14, 5:31 PM, Chris McKenna wrote: There is a further disconnect in that Commons is taking an increasingly ultra-conservative approach to the definition of Free, whereas most other projects

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Sam Klein
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Which led to the thought that hey, what we really need is a meta-project for hosting images that is *explicitly* intended to serve the other projects. We tried this before, right? But maybe this time we make the meta-project a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-02 Thread Avenue
That would be wonderful. I imagine we would want to tag the images to indicate their copyright status in certain jurisdictions, and set up a mechanism so that projects can define which sorts of images they want to be able to embed in their local pages, and which they do not want (unless a locally

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-01 Thread geni
On 1 March 2014 19:58, ??? wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: On 28/02/2014 01:23, geni wrote: We could do that but it pretty much removes commons only advantage over say imgur or flickr. We want the images on commons to be free. Not simply stuff no one has got around to complaining about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-01 Thread ???
On 01/03/2014 23:06, geni wrote: On 1 March 2014 19:58, ??? wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: You have no guarantee that the account that the images were scraped from held the copyright in the first place, and as such you are unable to pass that guarantee on to any one else. Want means

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-01 Thread geni
On 1 March 2014 23:59, ??? wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: On 01/03/2014 23:06, geni wrote: On 1 March 2014 19:58, ??? wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk wrote: You have no guarantee that the account that the images were scraped from held the copyright in the first place, and as such you are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-03-01 Thread Mark
On 2/28/14, 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote: On 28 February 2014 08:27, Delirium delir...@hackish.org wrote: But the other Wikimedia projects are *also* supposed to share that goal: of producing a Free-as-in-freedom encyclopedia whose contents can be safely reused and adapted by a wide range of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread Delirium
On 2/28/14, 9:18 AM, David Gerard wrote: On 28 February 2014 01:23, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 February 2014 22:03, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: And we remain convinced that there is space for a way more prudent implementation of URAA that prevents deleting educational

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread Yann Forget
2014-02-28 7:00 GMT+05:30 geni geni...@gmail.com: On 27 February 2014 22:56, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: This is the essential point of the problem: * Commons has a long-running attitude of absolute copyright paranoia, so that no reuser will ever be put in legal danger. This

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread Jane Darnell
This would be the more concise open letter that I think all projects could support, no? Sent from my iPad On Feb 28, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-02-28 7:00 GMT+05:30 geni geni...@gmail.com: Now if someone could get the US to follow the law of the shorter

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread Samuel Klein
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: This would be the more concise open letter that I think all projects could support, no? Yes, this would be helpful. It's in everyone's interest for the US to adopt the rule of the shorter term. And the current Register

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread David Gerard
On 28 February 2014 08:27, Delirium delir...@hackish.org wrote: But the other Wikimedia projects are *also* supposed to share that goal: of producing a Free-as-in-freedom encyclopedia whose contents can be safely reused and adapted by a wide range of other people and organizations, who should

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread geni
On 28 February 2014 08:18, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: This supports what I noted: Commons increasingly just can't be relied upon as a repository for the other Wikimedia projects. Given the general failure of such projects to file exemption doctrine policies they wouldn't be able

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread David Gerard
On 28 February 2014 16:05, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 February 2014 08:18, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: This supports what I noted: Commons increasingly just can't be relied upon as a repository for the other Wikimedia projects. Given the general failure of such projects to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-28 Thread geni
On 28 February 2014 12:43, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: You're justifying the observed, serious problems with current actions by saying but they should work in theory! No. Its more that they are features rather than problems. There have always been images hosted locally that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-27 Thread Pierre-Selim
Still no explanation (nor appologies) on usage of inappropriate wording towards volunteer by the board of Wikimedia Argentina. It quite amazing when almost all projects have policies on civility ... 2014-02-27 0:24 GMT+01:00 geni geni...@gmail.com: On 26 February 2014 22:39, Galileo Vidoni

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-27 Thread Carlos M. Colina
And what about the [apparently lack of] self-criticism of some Commons sysops/admins? I think being able to accept criticism and moreover being able to say hey, somebody is questioning what we do. Why would that be? instead of plainly rejecting any questioning, is one essential part of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-27 Thread Galileo Vidoni
Not to mention demanding excuses and delivering such high expressions of politesse as this one: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWikimedia_Argentina%2FOpen_letter_regarding_URAAdiff=7665183oldid=7665158 I'll repeat it here for the record: I'm sorry and I offer our apologies if

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-27 Thread David Gerard
On 27 February 2014 22:03, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: We remain convinced that something is fundamentally wrong when its practical result is self-inflicting the highest possible loss of contents. And we remain convinced that there is space for a way more prudent implementation of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-27 Thread Nathan
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 5:56 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 February 2014 22:03, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: We remain convinced that something is fundamentally wrong when its practical result is self-inflicting the highest possible loss of contents. And we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread David Gerard
On 24 February 2014 20:51, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: However, over the last months certain Wikimedia Commons administrators have conducted massive deletions of these contents, in many cases involving entire categories. The burden of proof has been inverted: instead of having to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread Lionel Allorge
Hi, ... Many years ago, the editors of the Spanish Wikipedia decided to close the possibility to directly host images, choosing instead to use Wikimedia Commons. If we miss the opportunity to find a workaround that saves hundreds of thousands of images from an unrequested deletion that hurts

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread Yann Forget
Hi, 2014-02-26 16:01 GMT+05:30 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: On 24 February 2014 20:51, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: However, over the last months certain Wikimedia Commons administrators have conducted massive deletions of these contents, in many cases involving entire

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread Galileo Vidoni
Thanks for your replies. We'll surely take the French precedent into account if Commons' admins fail to reconsider the current policies and we propose hosting images on the Spanish Wikipedia. By the way, I forgot to mention that we've also published this letter on Meta and that there's also an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread geni
On 24 February 2014 20:51, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: Dear movement fellows, Wikimedia Argentina would like to express its support for the letter by Wikimedia Israel regarding URAA-motivated massive content deletions in Wikimedia Commons. Yet, we would like to express our view

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread Galileo Vidoni
[Sorry for this excurse] Dear Geni, the 20 years indeed come from article 24 of law 11 723. The 25 years come from the Berne Convention. In any case, Argentine copyright law is already known and documented in Commons, and we have been using a specific template (PD-AR-Photo) for years. Regarding

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open letter from Wikimedia Argentina regarding URAA

2014-02-26 Thread geni
On 26 February 2014 22:39, Galileo Vidoni gali...@gmail.com wrote: [Sorry for this excurse] Dear Geni, the 20 years indeed come from article 24 of law 11 723. The 25 years come from the Berne Convention. But that merely established a minimum under international law. Unless you have some