Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-05-01 Thread Asaf Bartov
Hi, Deryck. Thank you. Apology accepted. I look forward to working with WMHK on a suitable plan for development (even right now, though I'm guessing WMHK has its hands full till after Wikimania). Cheers, Asaf On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@wikimedia.hkwrote:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-05-01 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
Dear Deryck, many thanks for your letter. It is a relief to know that you're not assuming bad faith. I really hope that your enthusiasm for Wikimedia will not die out completely. One remark: I think that you may need to file a complaint not in your personal capacity, but representing the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Andrea Zanni
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 1:12 AM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.comwrote: What happens to the idea according to which the funds belong to the Wikimedia mouvement rather than to Wikimedia Foundation ? I think this exact point is often overlooked. I actually have a fairly trivial way to look

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
hi Erlend, I want to shortly comment on your letter, which raises legitimate concerns, in my view, and I would like to address them. On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Erlend Bjørtvedt erl...@wikimedia.nowrote: However, the gap between the legitimate demands of a donation-backed funding

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
Hey Deryck, On Apr 29, 2013, at 10:25 PM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@wikimedia.hk wrote: But you say we … We refers to WMHK I assume, but did you do this after a discussion with the Grants Programme, or did you decide this on your own? I work for the non-profit sector, and there is not way

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
Hey Florence On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:12 AM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com wrote: Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit : It's not logical to assume that because the WMF has funds it should in some way equitably distribute those funds around the world. What happens to the idea

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Charles Andres
In Milan we discuss about Chapters peer review as a tools that the WMF could use in parallel if FDC assessment. But in light of the discussion about who should or not apply to the FDC, it seems that chapters peer review should be consider by chapter willing to apply to the FDC as a preliminary

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Deryck Chan
On 30 April 2013 09:48, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Yes I read your reply, but you keep stating we want, that is not that same as together with the grant giver we agreed… I cannot overstate the importance of the difference between the two… People don't instantly agree

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Patricio Lorente
2013/4/30 Charles Andres charles.andres.w...@gmail.com: In Milan we discuss about Chapters peer review as a tools that the WMF could use in parallel if FDC assessment. But in light of the discussion about who should or not apply to the FDC, it seems that chapters peer review should be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Deryck Chan
On 30 April 2013 10:22, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hey Florence On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:12 AM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com wrote: Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit : It's not logical to assume that because the WMF has funds it should in some way

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 30.04.2013 01:12, Florence Devouard wrote: Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit : In the past years, we have seen several times organizers of Wikimania plain disappear after the event. Burn-out. I do not think it is a good outcome. For no-one. And I do not think it is a good idea to slap a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Richard Symonds
I think, perhaps, that the reform of the Wikimania bidding process could use a new thread! Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan
I think Jan-Bart did point out an interesting point As I heard in Milan Long time staffing, must go trough FDC And we exactly know our weakness on transparency and management (I already tried hard to push my rest of team when I was on the chapter board But what do you expect if they have day time

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Osmar Valdebenito
Probably a smoother transition would be much more appropiate. A part-time or temporary employee that can take care of the belated reports and paperwork that you, as volunteers, can't do and probably establish some basis for a future growth. WM-AR, WM-RS and WM-IL have professionalized in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
hi Jeromy-Yu, thank you for sharing this personal note. On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan jerry.tschan...@gmail.com wrote: As we aware of problem, we are run out of way to improve, it is bottleneck we need to tackle. So the FDC decision suggests chapter like us

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Florence Devouard
Le 4/30/13 12:52 PM, Richard Symonds a écrit : I think, perhaps, that the reform of the Wikimania bidding process could use a new thread! Yaroslav is not telling us about his experience on the bidding process, but about his experience about (not) feeling loved and appreciated for his effort

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Philippe Beaudette
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.comwrote: Yaroslav is not telling us about his experience on the bidding process, but about his experience about (not) feeling loved and appreciated for his effort and involvement. And boy... is that sad :( Flo Agreed, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread MZMcBride
Florence Devouard wrote: I was thinking of the numerous (quite successful) associations in France, which are simply made of entrepreneurs wishing to do things together (from networking, to training, to visits, conferences etc.). Most of those associations have only one staff member, a long-term

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread David Gerard
On 29 April 2013 06:14, Christophe Henner christophe.hen...@gmail.com wrote: As said during the feedback session, we still have to figure out how to fund the first employee. The FDC process is a really heavy process that do take a huge amount of time and energy. This is a process everyone

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: As background, relevant links I was able to find regarding the WMHK funding discussions: WMHK FDC proposal: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Proposals/2012-2013_round2/Wikimedia_Hong_Kong/Proposal_form

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Anders Wennersten
MZMcBride skrev 2013-04-29 07:13: I took a look at the current FDC members list[1] and the decision-making information[2] but I'm still a bit unclear how decisions like this[3] are made. Is there a vote on each individual request (and subsequent recommendation)? If so, is that vote public?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Thehelpfulone
On 29 Apr 2013, at 07:52, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote: I'm not familiar with the case, but reading that page, it seems that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:WM_HK/Education_Toolkits_For_Liberal_Studies/Report#Remaining_funds might also have played a role for the FDC's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Personally I think that these two points are relevant like weaknesses of the FDC. I would read three main important weaknesses: a) if there is a conflictual position inside the members of the FDC and a big difference of opinions probably there are no specific criteria to evaluate the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Christophe Henner
Hi David, I changed the topic to not flood Deryck parting email. Though the topics are related, I'd rather not flood his thread. Yes, the process is flawed, and everyone recognise it, even FDC staff and FDC members in their comments do. Yes, the process is a heavy burden to all the organisations

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Abbas Mahmood
Hi Christophe, From: christophe.hen...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:07:45 +0200 To: dger...@gmail.com CC: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone As I said in my previous email: * Most of the chapters

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Anders Wennersten
The beauty of the process, is in my mind, that is set up so that each member can have their personal preferences on criteria to be used. This ensues that as many perspectives as possible is up on the table during the deliberation, and certainly not only what is in the staff assessment. And

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Christophe Henner
On 29 April 2013 10:21, Abbas Mahmood abbas...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Christophe, From: christophe.hen...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:07:45 +0200 To: dger...@gmail.com CC: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Deryck Chan, 29/04/2013 00:52: [...] At this point, I believe it's an appropriate time for me to announce my resignation and retirement from all my official Wikimedia roles - as Administrative Assistant and WCA Council Member of WMHK. [...] Thanks Deryck for your commitment. I'm very sorry

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread David Gerard
On 29 April 2013 09:33, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: It's very clear (to me) that the WMF grants system is not designed to make Wikimedia entities grow, but only to reinforce those which are already strong enough, keeping them at the same level they're at. It's not clear

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Deryck Chan
On 29 April 2013 12:32, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: I'd like to come back to this - if the entity was told they were eligible (which certainly looks to be the case from the public documents), when was it discovered they were not? When the FDC recommendations were

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I think that we agree about the problem not about the solution. Anyway what it should be clear is that I have never spoken about an algorithm but about a matrix of parameters to evaluate a project. These parameters have been enumerated *but* after the evaluation of the project. This has

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread David Gerard
On 29 April 2013 16:47, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately I know that any project is specific and peculiar but the *personal* feeling doesn't help because it means that another FDC will evaluate it differently. And this is *precisely* what was predicted when the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Tomasz Ganicz
2013/4/29 Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl: My perception of this round of the FDC is mainly that it is very clear that there needs to be much more and clearer information about GAC and about what kinds of projects and chapters are better suited for the FDC. Actually the information how

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Markus Glaser
Deryck, it makes me sad to read your leaving message, as I have got to know you as a very constructive and engaged person, and I think your input and contributions are very valuable to the movement. It seems to me that we all kind of agree there's a gap between GAC and FDC funding when it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
P. S. again, internal-l discussions that should be public. Damn. Agreed, I am not on Internal either… Jan-Bart [1] http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/wmconf2013-fdc-process Tom -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Sarah Stierch
On 4/29/13 12:59 PM, Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: P. S. again, internal-l discussions that should be public. Damn. Agreed, I am not on Internal either... Jan-Bart Yes, there is a good number of people (including me) who are not on that list anymore. I'm really unclear, at this point in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread David Gerard
On 29 April 2013 21:01, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, there is a good number of people (including me) who are not on that list anymore. I'm really unclear, at this point in the movement, as to why it needs to remain closed. Critical conversations take place here, there,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone To: cfrank...@halonetwork.net Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org See the footnotes on the FDC decision page. Both WMHK and WMCZ were declared eligible at the time of submission, but the WMF

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
Hey So while I really regret your decision and hope that you will reconsider I would like to ask you something. Or, ironically, putting together a reallocation grant. Here's another hen-and-egg problem for you all. We saw little value in settling the remaining funds from the 2010-11 grants

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
Hi Markus, I am not sure but I have the feeling that WMHK is free to apply for a Grant once they are in compliance with the terms of the earlier grant? But I am out of my depth here, probably someone like Asaf could inform us better… And I was happy that the chapters are setting up peer review

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Erlend Bjørtvedt
I hope a few remarks are valid. As a chapter volunteer responsible for leading the local application during round 2, I recognize much of the frustration from WMKH. The process is not on its right track, as things are. The WMF is understandably under legitimate scrutiny over the use of donations

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Nathan
The WMF is not the only source of fundraising for Wikimedia chapters or other movement partners. Many chapters have successfully partnered with other organizations to accomplish great things in outreach and programming. Every chapter has the opportunity to raise money to achieve meaningful results

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Nathan
Florence - my comments followed Erlend's in the thread, where he suggested sending resources around the world without regard to which chapters were the most developed. Outside of the paragraph where I referred to WMKH specifically, my comments were not directed at it. In any case, it's fictional

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Erlend Bjørtvedt
Dear Nathan, I did not suggest what you say I suggested. My proposal was not to send funds away to weak chapters. The WMHK case illustrates exactly the point I wanted to make. The WMF has made reaching out to the world's largest language community (China), in the hands of the reporting and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread phoebe ayers
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Erlend Bjørtvedt erl...@wikimedia.nowrote: Dear Nathan, I did not suggest what you say I suggested. My proposal was not to send funds away to weak chapters. The WMHK case illustrates exactly the point I wanted to make. The WMF has made reaching out to the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread K. Peachey
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Erlend Bjørtvedt erl...@wikimedia.no wrote: To clarify, my message is that the WMF should rather open an OFFICE in Hong Kong, to serve the 1.3 billion chinese-speaking, and other south-east Asians aswell from there. India, anyone?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Erlend Bjørtvedt
But if you do not help the Wikimedia Movement in California, then why are you all posted there? ;-) Erlend, WMNO 2013/4/30 phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Erlend Bjørtvedt erl...@wikimedia.no wrote: Dear Nathan, I did not suggest what you say I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Fae
I am very sorry to read this Deryck. I know how completely committed you are to our movement and you have my sincere respect. I hope that those with influence carefully consider the issues you raise, and take a moment for doubt and serious review. Fae (mobile)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Erik Moeller
As background, relevant links I was able to find regarding the WMHK funding discussions: WMHK FDC proposal: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Proposals/2012-2013_round2/Wikimedia_Hong_Kong/Proposal_form Responses:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Nathan
Asking for money to do something you are passionate about, and being subject to the scrutiny and criticism of your valued peers, was always going to be a wrenching and soul-sucking process. This is a good time to acknowledge that, and to think about how the FDC can make volunteers more comfortable

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Alex Peek
Honest hardworking non-profits deserve more taxpayer money. I am optimistic that future generations figure this out On 28 April 2013 16:42, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Asking for money to do something you are passionate about, and being subject to the scrutiny and criticism of your valued

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Jeromy-Yu Chan (Jerry~Yuyu)
Hi all I am ACTUALLY PANIC when reading this. Normally I would say please don't go, but realizing myself I am not on the Local Chapter board already and even myself start to feel don't know what to do next And I am sorry to say, the decision had totally stir up the emotion of the whole

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread MZMcBride
Erik Moeller wrote: As background, relevant links I was able to find regarding the WMHK funding discussions: [...] Thanks for the links. I took a look at the current FDC members list[1] and the decision-making information[2] but I'm still a bit unclear how decisions like this[3] are made. Is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Christophe Henner
: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 02:37:36 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone Hi all I am ACTUALLY PANIC when