Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-22 Thread Dennis During
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 10:24 AM Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > I am afraid that this is a misrepresentation. Romaine is a "self confessed" > person with Asperger. Within our community we have an overrepresentation > with people with a mental health issue. This is to be expected. This is >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Robert Fernandez
If you want to see the entire world through the lens of Kafka, be my guest, but we can't make policy in this movement based on that. On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 10:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be subject > to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Isaac Olatunde
Hi Natacha I am not sure this thread is about whether T action was in order or not. Aside the recent WP:FRAM, I am not aware of a single instance where T action's was criticized largely by the community or those you described as official representative of movement/chapters. Most opinion

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Camelia, My comment was not about harassment, was about systemic and rampant lack of due process on the part of the WMF. And it's not drama, it's reality. Paulo camelia boban escreveu no dia sexta, 21/06/2019 à(s) 15:24: > Oh my Gosh Paulo, can you stop this dramma about yourself and your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread camelia boban
Oh my Gosh Paulo, can you stop this dramma about yourself and your problem with everything is connected with WMF? To others, please have respect for the both parts engaged in this sad story and do what Geert asked, stop discussing about this specific conflict publicly. If you want to talk more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I am afraid that this is a misrepresentation. Romaine is a "self confessed" person with Asperger. Within our community we have an overrepresentation with people with a mental health issue. This is to be expected. This is typically not appreciated hardly ever understood. I have noticed before

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
False accusation with the respective punishment, that is. If it was just a false accusation I would not care that much about it, though I obviously dislike being falsely accused. Paulo A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 15:01, Paulo Santos Perneta < paulospern...@gmail.com> escreveu: > Hi Robert, > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi Robert, I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be subject to a false accusation by the WMF, without even knowing it, and having no way to defend yourself appeal. Everything is easy to talk about and have opinions while it is only happening to the others.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Robert Fernandez
At some point we have to decide who this movement and community is for. Is it for popular individuals to act out in any way they please and be awarded maximum freedom and lack of accountability? Or is it so we can insure a friendly space for everyone, including those who are not popular, who are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Robert Fernandez
You do realize that you can email Romaine privately? On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:18 AM Gerard Meijssen wrote: > > Hoi, > You do not get it. For me this is about saying goodbye. Saying goodbye to > someone I/we truly value. Saying goodbye to someone who we owe gratitude. > This was not allowed to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process to verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that, creates a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events; and provides a tool easy to abuse by clever persons who understood how to game the system, as a vehicle

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 7:57 AM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all > > > > First of all I don’t know the con

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Philip Kopetzky
dia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all > > First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know that I > personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable and > wise. I totally support and trust their judgement. > > I am tire

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Peter Southwood
, 2019 7:57 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know that I personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable and wise. I totally support and trust their judgement. I am t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know that I personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable and wise. I totally support and trust their judgement. I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate official chapter representants

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, You do not get it. For me this is about saying goodbye. Saying goodbye to someone I/we truly value. Saying goodbye to someone who we owe gratitude. This was not allowed to be, we say goodbye and we are told that we are wrong because a situation where the POV expressed is that we cannot say

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread GorillaWarfare
Well, no, this is the team that banned an en.wp admin for reasons they are not able to disclose. It is only community speculation based on a portion of an email sent to the banned user that has led people to draw the same conclusion as you, and I suspect that is not the full story. That, however,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread effe iets anders
Gerard, I think your comment is highly inappropriate. I don't generally like to pile on, but this needs calling out. When discussing these sensitive topics, the very least we can expect, is a careful approach to the matter. I don't know the underlying situation well enough to establish who's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Nathan
I think it's OK to mourn the loss of someone's future contributions and participation, without purporting to make a decision on the substance of any accusations. I read Romaine's e-mail and thought it sad that he felt it necessary to withdraw. I also am not blindly trusting of T This is the same

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Chris Keating
> > It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia > movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting someone > who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to > intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Philip Kopetzky
Thanks Molly for your thoughtful words, I really hope your words make some people think about their own replies in this thread. On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 23:42, GorillaWarfare < gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much about >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread GorillaWarfare
I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much about the events that have led up to all of this other than what has been said on this mailing list. It is easy to take sides in cases like these, based on who you know best, your past experiences with that person, and a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Pierre-Selim
Her POV ? Well I can confirm what Caroline said. What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ? It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents reported. Things that should have stayed private were told

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
I am very sad and depressed with this outcome, especially with someone as Romaine, which I am quite lucky to know personally. And it is very true that now one has to have eyes in their back and be extra careful when going to WMF run events, as the risk of abuse of T is quite real. Dangerous

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Caroline, For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has quite the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us all he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do not know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Romaine you know that you are always welcome. And if you have to categorize yourself to be accepted, we should say that the community is becoming insane. We accept Romaine because is Romane non because he is man/woman, black/white, LGBT/Etero, etc. Kind regards On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 1:15

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Caroline Becker
This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn and grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing no willingness to grow and learn. But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your right to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Dennis During
I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this unfortunate outcome On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki wrote: > Dear community, > > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Rehman Abubakr
; From: Wikimedia-l on behalf of camelia boban Sent: 20 June 2019 19:57 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all One way or another, as nerds, we are all weird. I felt in love with this movement when I realized that anyone insid

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Santiago Navarro
It is very sad to read this e-mail. I had the luck of meeting you several times. I wish you the best in your life. Thank you for all these time working for free knowledge. El 2019-06-20 17:59, Gerard Meijssen escribió: Hoi Romaine, I am sad. It has been a pleasure to work with you. Your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi Romaine, I am sad. It has been a pleasure to work with you. Your energy has been inspiring. I hope that we will find each other whenever, wherever. Thank you Romaine :) Gerard On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 13:15, Romaine Wiki wrote: > Dear community, > > First I need to mention that the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread camelia boban
One way or another, as nerds, we are all weird. I felt in love with this movement when I realized that anyone inside would not have felt a stranger. I live in Rome, where there is the habit of hugging and / or kissing each other on one cheek and another when we meet. In the Arab world I saw that