Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-09-13 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
MZMcBride, 24/08/2014 23:57: Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: First, let's make one thing clear: the reader doesn't exist; it's just a rhetorical trick, and a very dangerous one. For more: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stupidity_of_the_reader This essay looks fascinating. I hope to read it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-25 Thread Delirium
On 8/25/14, 3:06 AM, MZMcBride wrote: As a metric, pageviews are probably not very meaningful. One way we can observe whether we're fulfilling our mission is to see how ubiquitous our content has become. An even better metric might be the quality of the articles we have. Anecdotal evidence

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-24 Thread MZMcBride
Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: First, let's make one thing clear: the reader doesn't exist; it's just a rhetorical trick, and a very dangerous one. For more: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stupidity_of_the_reader This essay looks fascinating. I hope to read it soon. Page views, however brute a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-24 Thread Risker
Given the mission is sharing information, I'd suggest that if we have a 95% drop in readership, we're failing the mission. Donations are only a means to an end. Risker/Anne On 24 August 2014 22:57, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: First, let's make one thing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-24 Thread MZMcBride
Risker wrote: Given the mission is sharing information, I'd suggest that if we have a 95% drop in readership, we're failing the mission. Donations are only a means to an end. I think this assumes a direct correlation between pageviews and sharing information and I'm not sure such a direct

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-24 Thread Pine W
Yes, we could look at Google's infoboxes as doing us a favor because they decrease the load on our servers. We would need to account for those views in some way if we are interested in quantifying success in the sense of total views of our content regardless of where it is reproduced. However, I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Strainu
2014-08-21 9:30 GMT+03:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com: It would *seem* that every user converted to the mobile site is a step towards extinction of the wiki. That is an excellent point Frederico. In addition to the inherent difficulties of editing on small screen, especially large

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 21 August 2014 10:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: the mobile website arbitrarily skips some elements visible on desktop, such as navboxes I've noticed this; and other deficiencies (such as no did you know on main page, not even as a link to a subpage). and significantly alter some

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Risker
On 21 August 2014 05:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-08-21 9:30 GMT+03:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com: It would *seem* that every user converted to the mobile site is a step towards extinction of the wiki. That is an excellent point Frederico. In addition to the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Neil Babbage
Editing via the mobile view is made more painful by the use of navboxes, tables and complex templates of any kind. Even the {{cite}} template can occupy several lines of the display on a mobile device making it hard to discern the text. Maybe Wikidata will solve some of this by shifting the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 21.08.2014 14:26, Risker wrote: On 21 August 2014 05:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: ... I went to look at some of those same articles using my smartphone with the desktop option turned on. Many of them timed out without fully loading; others took several minutes. There was a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Risker
On 21 August 2014 09:18, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: On 21.08.2014 14:26, Risker wrote: On 21 August 2014 05:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: ... I went to look at some of those same articles using my smartphone with the desktop option turned on. Many of them

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread John Mark Vandenberg
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 August 2014 05:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-08-21 9:30 GMT+03:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com: It would *seem* that every user converted to the mobile site is a step towards extinction of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 21.08.2014 15:24, Risker wrote: On 21 August 2014 09:18, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: On 21.08.2014 14:26, Risker wrote: On 21 August 2014 05:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: ... Many of these templates have over 100 links in them; a surprisingly large number

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Peter Southwood
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav M. Blanter Sent: 21 August 2014 03:29 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist On 21.08.2014 15:24, Risker wrote: On 21 August 2014 09:18, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Isarra Yos
On 21/08/14 13:24, Risker wrote: On 21 August 2014 09:18, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: For me the conclusion would be not that we should drop them altogether in the mobile version (most of them are useful navigation means after all) but that the mobile version should be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 21 August 2014 17:08, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote: Man, I forgot how over the top some projects get with their navigation templates. Perhaps the answer is to refactor them as separate pages to which mobile (and even desktop) pages can use a single link? -- Andy Mabbett

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Steven Walling
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: Or, have them filled from Wikidata. Then, {{Infobox}} would be all the wikitext you need. This could also help to abstract infoboxes to load a placeholder/hint on mobile, then loading the box on request

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 21.08.2014 21:17, Steven Walling wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: Or, have them filled from Wikidata. Then, {{Infobox}} would be all the wikitext you need. This could also help to abstract infoboxes to load a placeholder/hint on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Michael Peel
On 21 Aug 2014, at 13:03, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 21 August 2014 10:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: the mobile website arbitrarily skips some elements visible on desktop, such as navboxes I've noticed this; and other deficiencies (such as no did you know

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Andy Mabbett
I was talking about navboxes, not infoboxes. On 21 August 2014 19:04, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: Or, have them filled from Wikidata. Then, {{Infobox}} would be all the wikitext you need. This could also help to abstract infoboxes to load a placeholder/hint on mobile, then

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Strainu
2014-08-21 15:03 GMT+03:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 21 August 2014 10:31, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: and significantly alter some infoboxes because it doesn't look good. I'd not noticed this; can you give examples, please? It seems this is not the case at en.wp, but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The reader, who doesn't exist

2014-08-21 Thread Maryana Pinchuk
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:29 AM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: *But*, that only works on the normal website. On the mobile website, I cant figure out how to disable the Media Viewer. To check I wasnt missing something, I asked someone at the Wikimedia Indonesia office