Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread John Erling Blad
This tend to diverge away from the chrome and into the content, which is a lot more difficult to change. (Urgh, way to long…) Anyway, I have this really-really weird idea that “staff” should provide (extremely good) design elements, and then local projects would chose to use them in favor of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread Pine W
Regarding Timeless, folks may want to read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Timeless/Post-deployment_support/Final . I'm cross-posting this thread to the public Design mailing list. That's usually a quiet list, but I think that if people want to have an extensive discussion that is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I am game, to make me interested again in the editing sense of Wikipedia, there are a few things on my wish list. The first thing I will happily contribute to are "red links on steroids". The problem with red links is disambiguation.. Suppose that there is no article by that name, chances

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread Aron Manning
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 at 18:53, Chris Gates via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Is this the right time to plug Timeless? > It is, well, timeless. Looks modern too. Should be the default imho by now. Then the wikimania design features could be added to it, to make it almost

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread Paul J. Weiss
"I think we all generally endorse incremental improvements, instead of drastic overhauls." Um, that is clearly not true, since otherwise, for example, the original poster would not have sent out his message. For readers, I think many, if not most, would want a look and feel that works for them,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread Chris Gates via Wikimedia-l
Is this the right time to plug Timeless? It is, well, timeless. Looks modern too. On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 18:22 John Erling Blad wrote: > Try holding your cellphone vertically. > > tor. 12. des. 2019, 22.38 skrev Todd Allen : > > > Erm, I remember what websites looked like in 1996. I even made

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-14 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Yes, and that's why I really, really, really want to hear more feedback on it from various communities of editors, including criticism. That's also why in my proposal I write that it's a requirement that communities must be able to override any central functionality, and I only speak about the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread John Erling Blad
For those interested: https://www.w3.org/TR/css-device-adapt-1/ On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:47 PM John Erling Blad wrote: > > Could we please update them with a slightly more up-to-date skin? > > Take a look at our Norwegian competitor in the lexicon field. > https://snl.no/kunstig_intelligens >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread John Erling Blad
I get a little scared when I read “probably, but not necessarily, mostly by staff” because all kind of central standardization creates a whole lot of arguing in the individual subprojects. If that standardization means changing a whole lot of templates I'm afraid it will create much more fighting

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread John Erling Blad
A skin does not have to change the content, most of the skin is chrome and can be changed without touching the content at all. On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 1:12 AM Nick Wilson (Quiddity) wrote: > > Multiple responses: > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 10:07 AM Juergen Fenn wrote: > > > Am 12.12.19 um

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread John Erling Blad
I don't see any reason to turn this into a help thread, but yes there are a few browsers that don't fully support responsive design. For example IE11 has trouble with responsive images.[1] Mobile best Practices become a W3C Recommendation 29 July 2008, we're not compliant as far as I know.[2]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 12 בדצמ׳ 2019 ב-23:37 מאת ‪Pine W‬‏ <‪wiki.p...@gmail.com ‬‏>:‬ > I'm thinking out loud here. Are there any estimates of would be required in > terms of time (both staff time and community time) and money to make > templates and other tools be much easier to globalize across wikis

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread Shlomi Fish
Hello John, On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:01:46 +0100 John Erling Blad wrote: > I wrote 1996 in the subject field because that was the year I made a > wikisite with tabbed interface, and experimented with a paper-like > design in Xt. More or less what designers today would call a material > design.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-13 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 13 בדצמ׳ 2019 ב-2:13 מאת ‪Nick Wilson (Quiddity)‬‏ <‪ nwil...@wikimedia.org‬‏>:‬ > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 5:26 PM Strainu wrote: > > > The main problem I see with that is that is changing all the on-wiki > > templates and scripts that work with the current skin. There is also a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
Multiple responses: On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 10:07 AM Juergen Fenn wrote: > Am 12.12.19 um 02:25 Uhr schrieb Strainu: > > There is also a > > question of opportunity: with less and less desktop users, it just > > makes more sense to invest in the mobile experience > > Most authors still use

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Todd Allen
I'm not using my cell phone. I'm using an actual computer with a 28" monitor. There's really no excuse, in web design, for something aside from the content to absolutely overwhelm the whole monitor on a first view. That robot image should be about a third of its size. Todd On Thu, Dec 12, 2019

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread John Erling Blad
Try holding your cellphone vertically. tor. 12. des. 2019, 22.38 skrev Todd Allen : > Erm, I remember what websites looked like in 1996. I even made some then. > It looks nothing like that. > > On the other hand, on the site you linked to? The first thing I see is an > absolutely huge photo of a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Todd Allen
Erm, I remember what websites looked like in 1996. I even made some then. It looks nothing like that. On the other hand, on the site you linked to? The first thing I see is an absolutely huge photo of a robot looking at me. I have to scroll down past that to get to the actual meat, the text

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Pine W
I'm thinking out loud here. Are there any estimates of would be required in terms of time (both staff time and community time) and money to make templates and other tools be much easier to globalize across wikis and across skins? I'm looking for an answer that is more specific than "a lot", but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 12 בדצמ׳ 2019 ב-16:54 מאת ‪Samuel Klein‬‏ <‪ meta...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬ > Nice find, thanks for sharing! > > Amir: yes, we need global templates -- a framework for them and incremental > way editors and tools can migrate to that. What's the latest overview of > where that work sits?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 12 בדצמ׳ 2019 ב-16:54 מאת ‪Samuel Klein‬‏ <‪ meta...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬ > Nice find, thanks for sharing! > > Amir: yes, we need global templates -- a framework for them and incremental > way editors and tools can migrate to that. What's the latest overview of > where that work sits?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread James Salsman
We are constantly fighting to keep aesthetics from interfering with usability, for example by people using lower-contrast, more subjectively appealing typography, such as quoting text in green on white, or using lower contrast backgrounds of any color. Both are hard even for people with normal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Juergen Fenn
Am 12.12.19 um 02:25 Uhr schrieb Strainu: > There is also a > question of opportunity: with less and less desktop users, it just > makes more sense to invest in the mobile experience Most authors still use desktop computers for writing articles or doing maintenance work. Mobile is for readers.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Samuel Klein
Nice find, thanks for sharing! Amir: yes, we need global templates -- a framework for them and incremental way editors and tools can migrate to that. What's the latest overview of where that work sits? What can we all do to help?  On Thu., Dec. 12, 2019, 8:37 a.m. John Erling Blad,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread John Erling Blad
Seems like Marius Hauken delivered the thesis in 2012.[1] A short video is available on YouTube.[2] He got several awards, at most three in one week. [3] A few of them are listed here.[4][5] [1] Hauken, Marius Aa., and Kunst- Og Designhøgskolen I Bergen. Same Shit, Different Wrapping (2012): Ca

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread John Erling Blad
I wrote 1996 in the subject field because that was the year I made a wikisite with tabbed interface, and experimented with a paper-like design in Xt. More or less what designers today would call a material design. The present design is what I would call Monobook 2.0, and that imply a 15 year old

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread John Erling Blad
Thank you, but discussing how your site or any other specific site looked like in some year is an distraction. On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 12:30 PM Shlomi Fish wrote: > > Hi John! > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:47:21 +0100 > John Erling Blad wrote: > > > Could we please update them with a slightly more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread John Erling Blad
I know about the work on changing the interactions, but this is about the design issue. All of the skins are horribly outdated, sorry to those that made them, but I guess they already know. What I would really like is a new fully responsive skin, using the concepts defined by w3, that also look

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-12 Thread Shlomi Fish
Hi John! On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:47:21 +0100 John Erling Blad wrote: > Could we please update them with a slightly more up-to-date skin? > > Take a look at our Norwegian competitor in the lexicon field. > https://snl.no/kunstig_intelligens > I took a look at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-11 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 12 בדצמ׳ 2019 ב-3:27 מאת ‪Strainu‬‏ <‪strain...@gmail.com ‬‏>:‬ > În joi, 12 dec. 2019 la 00:21, Amir Sarabadani a > scris: > > > > Do you know about > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements ? > > Those are all evolutions, I think the question here was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-11 Thread Aron Manning
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 07:04, Stryn wrote: > You can use > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering > to set the same skin everywhere. > Thank you so much! I was looking for this... Aron ___ Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-11 Thread Stryn
You can use https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-rendering to set the same skin everywhere. Sent from mobile to 12. jouluk. 2019 klo 6.57 Aron Manning > Btw, switching > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-11 Thread Aron Manning
> https://snl.no/kunstig_intelligens That's nice. Try these redesigns with an adblocker for a comparison: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wikipedia:Unsolicited_redesigns#/Live_sites https://www.wikizero.com/en/Wikipedia:Unsolicited_redesigns#Live_sites

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-11 Thread Strainu
În joi, 12 dec. 2019 la 00:21, Amir Sarabadani a scris: > > Do you know about > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements ? Those are all evolutions, I think the question here was about a revolution. The main problem I see with that is that is changing all the on-wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-11 Thread Amir Sarabadani
Do you know about https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements ? On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 10:48 PM John Erling Blad wrote: > Could we please update them with a slightly more up-to-date skin? > > Take a look at our Norwegian competitor in the lexicon field. >