Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread ENWP Pine
Sigh. This is a difficult situation. I don't think anyone has suggested that firing Gayle or Philippe should happen. However, I have concerns about keeping Gayle in the Chief Talent and Culture Officer position. I directed that concern to her and I want to hear what she thinks. There may be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread David Gerard
On 26 May 2013 12:18, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net wrote: You cannot expect people to stop bringing this topic up until they get — in their feeling — satisfactory answers, and it is my impression that at least some people don't feel that way. +1 - d.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Bence Damokos
Personally I think this line of the conversation (people resigning/fired) is taking the situation a bit too far. At the least not having volunteers administer the WMF's wiki is just punishment already. It seems that the WMF is unlikely to change its policy, so the best they can do to heal the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Bence Damokos
(typo fix) On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote: Personally I think this line of the conversation (people resigning/fired) is taking the situation a bit too far. At the least not having volunteers administer the WMF's wiki is just punishment already. It

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Deryck Chan
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote: Personally I think this line of the conversation (people resigning/fired) is taking the situation a bit too far. At the least not having volunteers administer the WMF's wiki is just punishment already. It seems

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Svavar Kjarrval
Hi. There's also the viewpoint that a person being fired could go overboard and do irreparable harm to the site and the public's view of the WMF. There's of course the possibility to revert the changes on the website, since it is a wiki, but very hard to do on the public opinion, like if a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Brandon Harris
On May 28, 2013, at 12:38 AM, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com wrote: However, I have concerns about keeping Gayle in the Chief Talent and Culture Officer position. This type of conversation is really not helpful in any way. I don't know what you're expecting here. --- Brandon

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Nathan
Pine says no one suggested firing Gayle or Philippe; I think it's clear that whatever semantics are invoked, he did suggest just that. That's beyond inappropriate, in my view, and an example of the toxic environment that will lead to less fruitful communication from the WMF and not more. It's not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Huib Laurens
Hi, I strongly believe that the Foundation shouldn't do actions like this on a Friday. In this case there was a major discussion about it and nobody from the foundation was there to respond. But this week the new MediaWiki version is released on Friday, there is a bug (wrong version details) the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread phoebe ayers
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Pine says no one suggested firing Gayle or Philippe; I think it's clear that whatever semantics are invoked, he did suggest just that. That's beyond inappropriate, in my view, and an example of the toxic environment that will

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread Steve Zhang
On 26 May 2013 07:35, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com wrote: Gayle, I am going to be frank. I think I know a little more about you and your work than the average member of this list does. I appreciate your explanations and apologies, but I'm continuing to have a hard time with this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
I can agree with the rest but this is interesting: Steve Zhang, 26/05/2013 08:42: [...] Now, the removal of adminship of volunteer editors on the WMF wiki (among other changes) happened for a reason, [...] really? What reason? I've not yet heard an explanation other than it's our wiki and we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread Steve Zhang
On 26 May 2013 16:53, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: I can agree with the rest but this is interesting: Steve Zhang, 26/05/2013 08:42: [...] Now, the removal of adminship of volunteer editors on the WMF wiki (among other changes) happened for a reason, [...] really?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Steve Zhang, 26/05/2013 09:08: Gayle explained her reasons in the email she sent to this list around 3 days ago, [...] Ah. I didn't notice, can you please quote the relevant passage[s]? Maybe I missed some, it was a very long message and its purpose didn't seem to explain reasons for the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread cro0016
I believe the relevant passage of text is this one: Wikimedia Foundation wiki has always been uniquely governed among the family of Wikimedia wikis, with decision-making authority historically placed with the WMF itself due to its purpose (hosting of official documents like bylaws, IRS tax

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Deryck Chan, 26/05/2013 11:27: In contrast to my post in the original thread (that I'm sceptical about how long WMF wiki will survive without volunteer admins), I do think the WMF is allowed their own piece of turf. In general, when there's an owner of a WMF-hosted wiki, we generally allow the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-26 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Again, this is going to be a general e–mail, so I'm not going to quote anyone in particular, and will just refer to some parts of the e–mails sent before this one. First of all, I think some of you guys should really stop freaking out about the alleged level of attacks in this thread (and the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-25 Thread ENWP Pine
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:33:57 +0200 From: Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: Gayle Karen Young gyo...@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things) Message-ID:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-25 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
Nemo, I think someone posted a list of good questions in this thread awhile back. I tried to find them but I gave up after ten minutes. If you can find them would you please repost them? If you can't find them either then I'd ask you to repeat the questions that you remember and think are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-25 Thread Craig Franklin
Wow, I'm on the road, bur suggesting that someone ought to leave after one public error? That's brutal. Hope I never come across you while doing my day job! Cheers, Craig On 26/05/2013 5:35 AM, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com wrote: Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:33:57 +0200 From: Federico Leva

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-25 Thread Benjamin Lees
The way this whole affair was undertaken was unfortunate, but that can be smoothed over with apologies. The remaining issue is that the wrong decision was made, and there's no way to fix that except to reverse the decision. On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 5:35 PM, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-25 Thread MZMcBride
Benjamin Lees wrote: The way this whole affair was undertaken was unfortunate, but that can be smoothed over with apologies. The remaining issue is that the wrong decision was made, and there's no way to fix that except to reverse the decision. This. It's not about making a mistake (or even a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-24 Thread Richard Symonds
Thanks, Gayle, for sharing this. It's interesting to read how people at other organisations in the movement came to join us. I agree with Nathan: your heart is clearly in the right place, and I promise you that the working relationships do become more comfortable (and reactions more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-23 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Just in case someone wonders, Gayle Karen Young, 23/05/2013 06:22: [...] goal was to ensure that the function of a wiki adminstrator, which is often identified with community self-governance, is clearly mapped against the governance model of the site: [...] [...] doesn't answers the