Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-27 Thread Comet styles
Indeed, Steinsplitter, they are 'buying time' hoping they can sweep
everything under the rug within a week, unfortunately for them, a few
news sites have picked up on the drama including BBCArrnon may
have step down, but the issue is still there, what's to stop WMF from
hiring another person like him in the near future? The community
cannot keep voting to remove board and staff members, We don't want it
to come to a situation where the community decides to get rid of the
'foundation' for the betterment of the community..

-- 
Cometstyles

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-27 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:

> hi Lodewijk,
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the update. It's been quite a while - and you don't seem to
> give
> > a clear time table for further updates.
>
> let me step in, since Alice is probably already asleep :) We're going to
> follow up with an update in a week or less.
>

I hope that you follow through with this plan, and give us a post-mortem in
a week's time.
 --scott
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-27 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki
I am not satisfied at all by this update. I have the feeling the Board want to 
wait until the community cools down. The boar was very fast in kicking out 
James for no obvious reason. But for removing Arnnon Geshuri (per community 
consensus, after a lot of drama) weeks are needed.  The Board and all other 
Functionary positions only exist because the community has written articles 
etc.  Now you, the Board, want ignore the community? Seriously? I have the 
feeling that the WMF is some sort of a autocracy right now. WMF schould be 
democratic. The community is not trolling the WMF, they simple care about 
wikimedia projects.

Geshuri must be removed from the Board ASAP. Community consensus to do so 
exists. Again: Please don't ignore the community.

--Steinsplitter

> From: awieg...@wikimedia.org
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 21:14:07 +0100
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board
> 
> Dear all,
> the Board has read your messages and is discussing the concerns you have
> raised about Arnnon Geshuri’s appointment. We need to consider all
> information and we have conversations among ourselves. Arnnon and the board
> are listening to your worries and talking with community members,
> considering people's opinions and his own next steps.
> 
> In the recent round of appointments, the Board identified that we needed
> support and expertise in two areas: financial oversight and planning, and
> human resources. Kelly and Arnnon were identified through the process,
> reviewed alongside other nominees, and selected as finalists based on their
> expertise and backgrounds. We all agreed they were excellent candidates and
> people, and supported their progress as finalists.
> 
> We understand this conversation will continue, and we will continue to
> monitor it. However, we want to be clear that the Board approved Arnnon
> unanimously and still believes he is a valuable member of the team.
> 
> Please see this as a brief update. We owe you a more detailed response, and
> we plan to come back to you with more information soon.
> 
> Alice.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alice Wiegand
> Board of Trustees
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-27 Thread Ruslan Takayev
Alice, et al

Ars Technica have now reported on Arnnon's statement, and your statement.[1]

Their previous article[2] touches on the Meta discussion.

Le Monde has also published an article on this debacle,[3] as a result
of the original Ars Technica piece.

Please take the time to read the comments. People are already
cancelling their regular donations to the Foundation in response to
Arnnon's appointment to the BoT.

Forget about "Wikimedians" for a moment. ^ ^ (John Q Public) are the
people you have to convince that Arnnon is worthy of being a WMF
Trustee. As you can see from many of the comments, the public thus far
does not believe he is.

Given the Ars Technica article has led to the BBC, Le Monde, etc
picking up on the story, I'm not really sure you have the ability to
delay a full explanation for another week, as this is possibly going
to blow up in your faces long before then.

Warm regards,



Ruslan Takayev


[1] 
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/wikimedia-board-official-responds-to-editors-geshuri-is-an-excellent-candidate
[2] 
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/editors-demand-ouster-of-wikimedia-board-member-involved-in-no-poach-deal/
[3] 
http://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2016/01/26/une-motion-de-defiance-contre-un-administrateur-de-wikimedia_4854041_4408996.html

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Alice Wiegand  wrote:
> Dear all,
> the Board has read your messages and is discussing the concerns you have
> raised about Arnnon Geshuri’s appointment. We need to consider all
> information and we have conversations among ourselves. Arnnon and the board
> are listening to your worries and talking with community members,
> considering people's opinions and his own next steps.
>
> In the recent round of appointments, the Board identified that we needed
> support and expertise in two areas: financial oversight and planning, and
> human resources. Kelly and Arnnon were identified through the process,
> reviewed alongside other nominees, and selected as finalists based on their
> expertise and backgrounds. We all agreed they were excellent candidates and
> people, and supported their progress as finalists.
>
> We understand this conversation will continue, and we will continue to
> monitor it. However, we want to be clear that the Board approved Arnnon
> unanimously and still believes he is a valuable member of the team.
>
> Please see this as a brief update. We owe you a more detailed response, and
> we plan to come back to you with more information soon.
>
> Alice.
>
>
>
> --
> Alice Wiegand
> Board of Trustees
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Amir Ladsgroup
May I ask a question:
Do you think it's ethical to ignore community demand for an explanation or
a statement for *three weeks *and then issue a statement just within *three
hours* after the story publishes in BBC
 ? Is publicity and public
image of WMF BoT is this important to you comparing to what community asks?

Note: the BBC story has published in "2016-01-26T18:10:21+00:00" UTC. You
can check when the statement has issued.

I really really want to be mistaken, please tell me I'm mistaken

Best

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 5:50 AM Elliott Eggleston 
wrote:

> Let me echo the call for more frequent, substantive updates from the board.
> Articles about the controversy are on Ars Techinca
> <
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/editors-demand-ouster-of-wikimedia-board-member-involved-in-no-poach-deal
> >
> and the BBC , and have made
> it
> to the front page of Reddit
> <
> https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/42r7t3/wikipedia_editors_revolt_vote_no_confidence_in/
> >.
> This has gone beyond diminishing the staff's and community's trust in the
> board and is now damaging the image of the entire movement. The idea that
> "Wikipedia is something special" where integrity and transparency are
> priorities has attracted editors, donors, and employees. Let's not lose
> that.
>
> -Elliott
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alice,
> >
> > thanks for the update. It's been quite a while - and you don't seem to
> give
> > a clear time table for further updates. The silence is damaging, and I
> hope
> > it goes away quickly, allowing some honest conversation. I can understand
> > that you want full information, but please also note that the
> conversation
> > in the community continues, with or without the board (whether we like it
> > or not) - and I'd prefer your voices of reason to be part of that. Could
> > you at least check back every few days to confirm you're still discussing
> > it, that there's still investigation going on, etc? For us, it is hard to
> > differentiate between nothing going on, or busy discussions in a
> backroom.
> >
> > After this all is over, maybe it is good to sit back, and consider some
> > kind of protocol or standard approach for a next time - because there
> > always will be a next time.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lodewijk
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Alice Wiegand 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > > the Board has read your messages and is discussing the concerns you
> have
> > > raised about Arnnon Geshuri’s appointment. We need to consider all
> > > information and we have conversations among ourselves. Arnnon and the
> > board
> > > are listening to your worries and talking with community members,
> > > considering people's opinions and his own next steps.
> > >
> > > In the recent round of appointments, the Board identified that we
> needed
> > > support and expertise in two areas: financial oversight and planning,
> and
> > > human resources. Kelly and Arnnon were identified through the process,
> > > reviewed alongside other nominees, and selected as finalists based on
> > their
> > > expertise and backgrounds. We all agreed they were excellent candidates
> > and
> > > people, and supported their progress as finalists.
> > >
> > > We understand this conversation will continue, and we will continue to
> > > monitor it. However, we want to be clear that the Board approved Arnnon
> > > unanimously and still believes he is a valuable member of the team.
> > >
> > > Please see this as a brief update. We owe you a more detailed response,
> > and
> > > we plan to come back to you with more information soon.
> > >
> > > Alice.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alice Wiegand
> > > Board of Trustees
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >
> > > Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
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> > 
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Pete Forsyth
Alice and Arnnon,

Thank you for your recent messages and your efforts to grapple with these
issues. I have two questions which have been much discussed; perhaps you
can provide clarification, so we can better understand the process?

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Alice Wiegand 
wrote:

> Kelly and Arnnon were ... selected as finalists
>

Was it the entire Board, or a committee of the Board, or a committee
including Board members and other people who did that selecting? And if it
was a committee, how many finalists did the entire Board consider for the
two open seats?

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Lodewijk
Hi Alice,

thanks for the update. It's been quite a while - and you don't seem to give
a clear time table for further updates. The silence is damaging, and I hope
it goes away quickly, allowing some honest conversation. I can understand
that you want full information, but please also note that the conversation
in the community continues, with or without the board (whether we like it
or not) - and I'd prefer your voices of reason to be part of that. Could
you at least check back every few days to confirm you're still discussing
it, that there's still investigation going on, etc? For us, it is hard to
differentiate between nothing going on, or busy discussions in a backroom.

After this all is over, maybe it is good to sit back, and consider some
kind of protocol or standard approach for a next time - because there
always will be a next time.

Best,
Lodewijk


On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Alice Wiegand 
wrote:

> Dear all,
> the Board has read your messages and is discussing the concerns you have
> raised about Arnnon Geshuri’s appointment. We need to consider all
> information and we have conversations among ourselves. Arnnon and the board
> are listening to your worries and talking with community members,
> considering people's opinions and his own next steps.
>
> In the recent round of appointments, the Board identified that we needed
> support and expertise in two areas: financial oversight and planning, and
> human resources. Kelly and Arnnon were identified through the process,
> reviewed alongside other nominees, and selected as finalists based on their
> expertise and backgrounds. We all agreed they were excellent candidates and
> people, and supported their progress as finalists.
>
> We understand this conversation will continue, and we will continue to
> monitor it. However, we want to be clear that the Board approved Arnnon
> unanimously and still believes he is a valuable member of the team.
>
> Please see this as a brief update. We owe you a more detailed response, and
> we plan to come back to you with more information soon.
>
> Alice.
>
>
>
> --
> Alice Wiegand
> Board of Trustees
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Milos Rancic
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Alice Wiegand  wrote:
> the Board has read your messages and is discussing the concerns you have
> raised about Arnnon Geshuri’s appointment. We need to consider all
> information and we have conversations among ourselves. Arnnon and the board
> are listening to your worries and talking with community members,
> considering people's opinions and his own next steps.
>
> In the recent round of appointments, the Board identified that we needed
> support and expertise in two areas: financial oversight and planning, and
> human resources. Kelly and Arnnon were identified through the process,
> reviewed alongside other nominees, and selected as finalists based on their
> expertise and backgrounds. We all agreed they were excellent candidates and
> people, and supported their progress as finalists.
>
> We understand this conversation will continue, and we will continue to
> monitor it. However, we want to be clear that the Board approved Arnnon
> unanimously and still believes he is a valuable member of the team.
>
> Please see this as a brief update. We owe you a more detailed response, and
> we plan to come back to you with more information soon.

I don't understand neither Arnnon nor the rest of the Board.

At the best, one month of this situation means one year less of your
lives because of stress. If Arnnon reaches Wikimedia Conference, every
day will take a year of your lives.

Admitting that you did something wrong is human.

To be honest, I don't think all of you, including Arnnon, are
stubborn. You are likely thinking you are choosing between two bad
things.

I read Arnnon's email and he convinced me. I mean, I am quite
convinced he could be quite good Board member exactly because of his
problematic background, as he would care much more what he is doing.
But he didn't convince 90% of Wikimedians. And that matters.

Just leave it. It's easier for everybody and it's right decision to
say "We are sorry, we did it wrong.". If some of you care about
reelection, it's wise to show human face. If you care about WMF's
integrity, Wikimedia movement is WMF's integrity. And Arnnon could
avoid the title of the most hated WMF Board member ever.

Or you really want to wait for Wikimedia Conference? Not to talk about
Wikimania.

-- 
Milos

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
hi Lodewijk,


On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Lodewijk 
wrote:

> thanks for the update. It's been quite a while - and you don't seem to give
> a clear time table for further updates.


let me step in, since Alice is probably already asleep :) We're going to
follow up with an update in a week or less.

best,

dj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Pine W
I hope that the Board will make clear in its longer statement that the
value of competence is an unacceptable trade for the value of integrity,
and will explain how the Board reconciles the history of this trustee with
the values of WMF and the Wikimedia movement. Personally, I have great
difficulty that any such reconciliation can be made.

Pine

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:

> hi Lodewijk,
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the update. It's been quite a while - and you don't seem to
> give
> > a clear time table for further updates.
>
>
> let me step in, since Alice is probably already asleep :) We're going to
> follow up with an update in a week or less.
>
> best,
>
> dj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update from the Board

2016-01-26 Thread Elliott Eggleston
Let me echo the call for more frequent, substantive updates from the board.
Articles about the controversy are on Ars Techinca

and the BBC , and have made it
to the front page of Reddit
.
This has gone beyond diminishing the staff's and community's trust in the
board and is now damaging the image of the entire movement. The idea that
"Wikipedia is something special" where integrity and transparency are
priorities has attracted editors, donors, and employees. Let's not lose
that.

-Elliott

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Lodewijk 
wrote:

> Hi Alice,
>
> thanks for the update. It's been quite a while - and you don't seem to give
> a clear time table for further updates. The silence is damaging, and I hope
> it goes away quickly, allowing some honest conversation. I can understand
> that you want full information, but please also note that the conversation
> in the community continues, with or without the board (whether we like it
> or not) - and I'd prefer your voices of reason to be part of that. Could
> you at least check back every few days to confirm you're still discussing
> it, that there's still investigation going on, etc? For us, it is hard to
> differentiate between nothing going on, or busy discussions in a backroom.
>
> After this all is over, maybe it is good to sit back, and consider some
> kind of protocol or standard approach for a next time - because there
> always will be a next time.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Alice Wiegand 
> wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> > the Board has read your messages and is discussing the concerns you have
> > raised about Arnnon Geshuri’s appointment. We need to consider all
> > information and we have conversations among ourselves. Arnnon and the
> board
> > are listening to your worries and talking with community members,
> > considering people's opinions and his own next steps.
> >
> > In the recent round of appointments, the Board identified that we needed
> > support and expertise in two areas: financial oversight and planning, and
> > human resources. Kelly and Arnnon were identified through the process,
> > reviewed alongside other nominees, and selected as finalists based on
> their
> > expertise and backgrounds. We all agreed they were excellent candidates
> and
> > people, and supported their progress as finalists.
> >
> > We understand this conversation will continue, and we will continue to
> > monitor it. However, we want to be clear that the Board approved Arnnon
> > unanimously and still believes he is a valuable member of the team.
> >
> > Please see this as a brief update. We owe you a more detailed response,
> and
> > we plan to come back to you with more information soon.
> >
> > Alice.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alice Wiegand
> > Board of Trustees
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
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>
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