Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-08 Thread Gabriel Thullen
Thank you Natacha for the update on the French situation. What would really make me happy this week would be to witness a goodwill or wikilove gesture by the French board: let the members who were recently expelled join up again so that we can hold some meaningful discussions. Gabe Le 8 août 2017

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-08 Thread Natacha Rault
Dear All, More than a quarter of Wikimedia France’s members have requested that several topics be added and voted upon at he next general assembly to be held in september in order to reflect on the current governance issues. The board has just confirmed that the minimum of members requested

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Devouard (gmail)
Le 04/08/2017 à 18:17, Gabriel Thullen a écrit : What is important here is that trust has to be rebuilt between the chapter members on one hand and the board & senior staff on the other hand. The way I understand the situation is that the board has expelled a few vocal opponents, a few board

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Ilario, A statement[1] released at the time said, "Over the past six months, a Wikimedia UK trustee led two Wikipedia-related projects, Monmouthpedia and Gibraltarpedia, in a way that seemed to some observers to blur his roles as a Wikimedia UK trustee, a paid consultant for the projects’

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Natacha Rault
Well thanks to Andreas for pointing this, I really believe that a movement advocating for the free sharing of knowledge can not afford to take royalist views on who is entitled or not to see the results of any audit and to reflect upon it. I want to reflect on Illario’s previous words . Well

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
James If the WMF is seen to be directing the activities of a chapter as if that chapter were a mere subsidiary, then it might inherit the responsibility for any content creation that the chapter had made in the past, or indeed might do in the future. Mind you, I only say "might", because I am

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Gabriel Thullen
What is important here is that trust has to be rebuilt between the chapter members on one hand and the board & senior staff on the other hand. The way I understand the situation is that the board has expelled a few vocal opponents, a few board members have resigned, one staffer was fired for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Chris Keating
> Interesting but: "The review, commissioned by Wikimedia UK..." exactly who? > Board, community, general assembly, group of members? > By the Board. The dynamics were different to the current situation with Wikimedia France, in that the Wikimedia UK Board at the time was not engaged in a big

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Ilario, A few years ago, WMUK was required to undergo an independent governance review. The review was jointly commissioned by WMUK and WMF. The results were public.[1] That option is available for WMFR today just as it was available for WMUK a few years ago. Andreas [1]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Natacha Rault
11:27, Leigh Thelmadatter wrote: >>> Assuming of course that a chapter actually follows its bylaws >>> >>> >>> From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of >>> Ilario Valdell

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Chris Keating
__ >>> From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of >>> Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> >>> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 1:34:34 AM >>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List; James Salsman >>> Subject: Re: [Wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Gilles Chagnon
Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 1:34:34 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List; James Salsman Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France The power of WMF, defined in the agreement, is basically limited to revoke the chapters agreement. There i

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 1:34:34 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List; James Salsman Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France The power of WMF, defined in the agreement, is basically limited to revoke the chapters agreement. There is no mention in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The power of WMF, defined in the agreement, is basically limited to revoke the chapters agreement. There is no mention in the Chapters agreement that WMF can take a control of a chapter and to manage a General Assembly. You forget that the legal pilaster of a chapter is the bylaws. On

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli
a Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France If the Foundation is seen to be directing the activities of a chapter at the proposed level of micro-management then it would jeopardise the legal status both of the Foundation (in terms of their safe harbour status) and of the chap

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread James Salsman
Rogol, What content protected by safe harbor provisions would the Foundation be exerting editorial control over by requiring governance standards of a Chapter? Is there some French law that requires charities to be more independent of their international affiliates than would be under such a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread James Salsman
ity to do this? >> > Cheers, >> > Peter >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On >> Behalf Of James Salsman >> > Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:11 PM >> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Pine W
.net> wrote: > > Are you requesting her to do this, or asking if she has the > rights/power/authority to do this? > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of James

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread James Salsman
Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf > Of James Salsman > Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:11 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Katherine Maher > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France > > Can Katherine Maher as Foundation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Yann Forget
2017-08-03 13:47 GMT+02:00 Rémi Mathis : > > To be honest, 25-30% of WMFR members is quite a lot. And, don't > > forget, include roughly half of the Wikimedia France Board elected at > > the last General Assembly. > > > > This isn't the first governance crisis in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Peter Southwood
; Katherine Maher Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France Can Katherine Maher as Foundation Executive Director decide and announce a new policy that the continuation of the WMFR Charter is contingent on the September General Assembly agenda including particular items which they may

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Alessandro Marchetti
About Louise, IMHO if you care about someone who has recently died, you should dedicate a whole separated email to the topic. Of course, if I had specifically any feeling that a mail will be at the center of a critical discussion, I would not put any reference to a dead person right there. I'd

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Natacha Rault
Dear All, Remi's email is symptomatic of the kind of communication we have been confronted with when asking questions (I repeat : questions, because all the so called opponants did in the first place was to question). No wonder people are unhappy: they are invited to do exactly the contrary to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Devouard (gmail)
Correct Ting At the moment, we are still in the hopes of saving it. I do not think losing the chapter agreement at the moment would be helpful. Flo Le 03/08/2017 à 13:30, Ting Chen a écrit : Hello dear all, at first I would object that the Foundation do such a thing, even as a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Gabriel Thullen
rry. > >> This is a few people, for various reasons, usualy very personal and very > >> bad ones. And those people refuse to acknowledge reality, even when the > >> board explains everything, even when lawyers explains what can and > cannot > >&

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Rémi Mathis
> To be honest, 25-30% of WMFR members is quite a lot. And, don't > forget, include roughly half of the Wikimedia France Board elected at > the last General Assembly. > > This isn't the first governance crisis in the Wikimedia movement (WMF > and other chapters have certainly had them) but it is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Ting Chen
Hello dear all, at first I would object that the Foundation do such a thing, even as a denkexperiment. This may be seen as an easy way to react on a crisis but this opens doors for misuse of power. In a different situation, a different time, with a different WMF board and ED, this can open a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Rémi Mathis
nes. And those people refuse to acknowledge reality, even when the >> board explains everything, even when lawyers explains what can and cannot >> be done within a chapter. >> >> I'm really worried about the behaviour of those people, and the future of >> Wikim

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread James Salsman
Can Katherine Maher as Foundation Executive Director decide and announce a new policy that the continuation of the WMFR Charter is contingent on the September General Assembly agenda including particular items which they may not otherwise be inclined to agendas, please? On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Chris Keating
> A few French wkipedians are not happy with the board and some of the > employees. They are about 25-30% of Wikimedia France members To be honest, 25-30% of WMFR members is quite a lot. And, don't forget, include roughly half of the Wikimedia France Board elected at the last General Assembly.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Devouard (gmail)
. I'm really worried about the behaviour of those people, and the future of Wikimedia France - since the harassment could lead to prosecution from employees. Best, Rémi From: Pierre-Selim <pierre-se...@huard.info> Date: 2 August 2017 at 20:09 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Devouard (gmail)
The current situation at Wikimedia France is ABSOLUTE NON SENSE After MONTHS spent trying to figure out what was going on, collecting data, finding witnesses, fighting fears of being sued... we succeeded to mobilize 25% of Wikimedia France members to vote to request a General Assembly. That

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-03 Thread Rémi Mathis
Pierre-Selim <pierre-se...@huard.info> > Date: 2 August 2017 at 20:09 > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > The passing of Louise is really sad :( > > On the other fronts,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-02 Thread Pierre-Selim
The passing of Louise is really sad :( On the other fronts, Edouard it feels like you're not telling things the way they really are. "The board acknowledge..." means the board has been forced to a new AGM by 25% of the member. Our bylaws dictate that. The board has published a shameful "Right

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-26 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Yes, I figured this out, thanks. Now copyediting. Cheers Yaroslav On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Natacha Rault wrote: > probably me... > > Le 26 juil. 2017 à 17:49, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit : > > > > Actually, after Catherine's mail, an English article was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-26 Thread Natacha Rault
probably me... > Le 26 juil. 2017 à 17:49, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit : > > Actually, after Catherine's mail, an English article was started by someone > I can not recognize from the username. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Merzeau > > Cheers > Yaroslav > > On Wed,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-26 Thread Natacha Rault
Hi there, being in the train from Geneva to Paris I started to translate the page on Louise Merzeau in English. Unfortunately I am going down now, and I am not finished… But it is available here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Merzeau I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-26 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Actually, after Catherine's mail, an English article was started by someone I can not recognize from the username. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Merzeau Cheers Yaroslav On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Katherine Maher wrote: > Dear Édouard and our other colleagues

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-26 Thread Katherine Maher
Dear Édouard and our other colleagues at Wikimédia France, We are sorry to hear about the passing of Mrs. Louise Merzeau. While I did not have a chance to meet her, I understand she was an advocate for the Commons movement and a leading academic on digital identities and the relationship between

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-24 Thread Pine W
Hello Édouard, Thank you for this information. Condolences on the passing of your colleague Louise. The news about WMFR that has been sent to this mailing list during the past few weeks is a matter of serious concern. I hope that there will be progress on clarifying the facts and, if it seems

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-24 Thread Samuele Mantani
I want to express my sincere condolences and I can understand that this event will have a strong impact on WMFR. Samuele2002 Il 24/Lug/2017 07:07 AM, "Samuel Klein" ha scritto: > Thank you kindly Édouard for sharing this update on all fronts. I am so > terribly sorry to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-07-23 Thread Samuel Klein
Thank you kindly Édouard for sharing this update on all fronts. I am so terribly sorry to hear about the passing of Louise Merzeau. Warm thoughts and regards. SJ On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Édouard Hue wrote: > Dear Wikimedia community, > > Here are the latest