Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Today it is announced that for maps in Commons, maps that are known in Wikidata we have now support for "geoshapes". Dan, you indicated nine days agao that this is not on your road map. But it is there. Could you please inform us how this can be used in Apple maps? Thanks, GerardM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-22 Thread Peter Southwood
non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app) On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:22 AM, Dan Garry <dga...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > The size of your app can significantly reduce downloads [1]. > [1]: https://segment.com/blog/mobile-app-size-effect-on-downloads/ That a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Gergő Tisza
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:22 AM, Dan Garry wrote: > The size of your app can significantly reduce downloads [1]. > [1]: https://segment.com/blog/mobile-app-size-effect-on-downloads/ That article seems super sketchy. They took a 3MB app, increased it to 100MB+, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Dan, On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 6:24 PM, you wrote: > > Please do not twist my words. I said technical considerations are relevant, > not that customer needs do not come first. If something is incredibly > difficult to do, that is factored in to prioritisation, alongside the size > of the audience

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Strainu
În 21 martie 2017 20:24:49 EET, Dan Garry a scris: >On 21 March 2017 at 18:02, Strainu wrote: > >> 2017-03-21 18:17 GMT+02:00 Dan Garry : >> > On 21 March 2017 at 14:34, Gerard Meijssen > >> > wrote: >>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Leila Zia
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Dan Garry wrote: > > Sadly, as is typical with this mailing list, we've now delved into a world > of hypotheticals, idealisms, and misrepresentations. It would not be a > productive use of time (and, indeed, donor money) for me to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Dan Garry
On 21 March 2017 at 18:02, Strainu wrote: > 2017-03-21 18:17 GMT+02:00 Dan Garry : > > On 21 March 2017 at 14:34, Gerard Meijssen > > wrote: > >> > >> Technical considerations are imho less relevant. What trumps it is > >>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Strainu
2017-03-21 18:17 GMT+02:00 Dan Garry : > On 21 March 2017 at 14:34, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: >> >> Technical considerations are imho less relevant. What trumps it is >> functionality. > > > Technical considerations are very relevant if one is doing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Apple maps do not provide the same maps (not as up to date) as OSM does for a country like Haiti. That has nothing to do with "ignoring technical difficulties" but has everything to do with the quality of the service provided. When you consider that work IS done on historic maps in an OSM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread John
As a programmer myself I understand that free vs non-free causes more work for you. However you cannot ignore one of the foundations of the wikimedia movement because it makes a little more work for you. I honestly don't understand why you thought that Apple maps would be acceptable at all. You

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Dan Garry
On 21 March 2017 at 14:32, John wrote: > This reminds me of en wiki's non-free policy. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria#1 > highlights the point fairly clearly Usage of non-free materials is often > easier and higher quality than

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Dan Garry
On 21 March 2017 at 14:34, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > > Technical considerations are imho less relevant. What trumps it is > functionality. Technical considerations are very relevant if one is doing something technical, for example developing an iOS app or a maps tile

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Technical considerations are imho less relevant. What trumps it is functionality. Our maps have to be good everywhere and as far as I know OSM is superior in places where there is profit to be made from maps. Current maps world wide and historical maps are what we need. How would you use the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread John
This reminds me of en wiki's non-free policy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria#1 highlights the point fairly clearly Usage of non-free materials is often easier and higher quality than using the free equivalent . However Wikimedia's mission and goal's are to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-21 Thread Dan Garry
Hey Magnus, There are a few other factors to consider in addition to those listed. For example, development cost. Our maps tile service is not compatible with the iOS app out of the box. This isn't surprising; Apple wants you to use things like Apple Maps rather than your own solution. Android

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-15 Thread Magnus Manske
Hi Josh, all, I am not one hell-bent on "FOSS or death"; I tend to use whatever works best. That said, the cost-benefit analysis of using Apple Maps seems to boil down: * Apple Maps has slightly better rendering (didn't check, but I assume) * Apple Maps uses less mobile bandwidth * Apple Maps is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, One point about OSM is that it provides a better service in situations that are sub optimal. The infra structure for Haiti is diminished and it is in OSM where people are actually working hard to provide the best map service. We have had nearby function in Labs for a very long time, I have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-14 Thread James Heilman
Good to hear about privacy being maintained. Are there efforts to move to OSM eventually? J On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Joshua Minor wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Josh Minor, and I am the Product Manager for the Wikipedia iOS > app. I wanted to speak to a couple

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-14 Thread Joshua Minor
Hello, My name is Josh Minor, and I am the Product Manager for the Wikipedia iOS app. I wanted to speak to a couple specific issues and misunderstandings raised by this email thread. First, please take a look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/Maps_service which provides

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-11 Thread Samuel Klein
Hi Jonatan, Thanks for this email, it's relevant to the general wikimedia list & community. I broadly agree with you: we should aim to strengthen and expand the universe of free knowledge, including every building block along the way: so that others can replicate both toolchain and result on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-11 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
I am surprised that this discussion would be held now, *after* the work has been done. Was it really not possible to plan ahead and have this discussion before doing work that might turn out to be wasted? Was it really so hard to predict this difficulty? Who was in charge? "Rogol" On Sat, Mar

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, What I do not understand is why? We have had maps and nearby functionality for a very long time 2014 based on Wikidata [1]. It has the benefit of being of use in any of our languages much more than what Apple has to offer. This was developed at the Hackathon in Vienna. OSM maps have as a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-10 Thread James Heilman
That link does not for me Jonatan? But yes if the app is pulling from Apple and giving our users data to Apple that would not be allowed by the privacy policy. Or at least that is my understanding. James On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Jonatan Svensson Glad < gladjona...@outlook.com> wrote: >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-10 Thread James Heilman
Why are we not using OSM? I know Yuri created tiles within the WMF system of services and those are what Wikivoyage uses. Wikivoyage was once using no open maps that were not hosted locally which was a breach of our privacy policy. Thankfully Yuri created the solution mentioned once the issue was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-10 Thread Jonatan Svensson Glad
> If the nonfree content is presented as an integral part of the interface, > such as inline with the article, that's a problem. It is an "integral part of the interface", so mcu so, it is it's own "thing" in the app, and not part of "in articles". See screenshot (which I can't upload to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Using non-free elements vs our values (Apple Maps vs Wikipedia iOS app)

2017-03-10 Thread Todd Allen
I think it depends how it's being used. If the nonfree content is presented as an integral part of the interface, such as inline with the article, that's a problem. On the other hand, if the interface just allows the separate Apple Maps to be pulled up, that's a bit different. We frequently link