Hi Sydney,
I understand your perspective, but I also understand the where is the
carrot? question. I would actively support the campaign if it had
been run as one of stating that for X weeks or months that the WMF
grants system would give priority to gendergap related proposals and
that we would
Please try not to split threads.
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It's not denying attention or funds. It's focusing attention and funds on a
badly needed area for 3 months out of the year, and the rest of the
projects get the full 9 months. Inviting people to focus their proposals on
the gender gap (which, btw, doesn't need scare quotes, as I assure you it's
Identifying priority areas and directing resources (funds and human) toward
them is a non-controversial way to achieve goals.
This is exactly what is happening with this targeted campaign.
The grants team has made it clear that during this round it intends to work
with people and organizations
My 2 cents?
The carrot would be a different approach of the committees in the
evaluation and a better consideration of the role of the women.
When I said to several women that there will be a session of grants
dedicated to the women, the answer has been really positive, I would say
that they
* Sydney Poore wrote:
It appears to me that you are entirely missing the actual nature of the
problem and the reason for having a campaign targeted at the gender gap.
The *problem* is that there have been a suboptimal number of grant requests
for funds to address the gender gap even though it a
It appears to me that you are entirely missing the actual nature of the
problem and the reason for having a campaign targeted at the gender gap.
The *problem* is that there have been a suboptimal number of grant requests
for funds to address the gender gap even though it a listed priority of the
Siko makes an important point here. If there are too many time sensitive
non-theme requests then that would be justification for allocating more
resources to the grantmaking team next year.
Let's wait and see how the data plays out.
Sydney
Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wikipedian in Residence
at
On 9 January 2015 at 20:31, Bjoern Hoehrmann derhoe...@gmx.net wrote:
* Siko Bouterse wrote:
We've heard from a number of chapters/groups so far that are excited about
the campaign and are wondering how to help. We've heard from only a few
people so far about specific time-sensitive requests of
* Sydney Poore wrote:
It has become pretty obvious that funding the interests/values of existing
community members through regular channels is not creating content free of
systemic bias in general nor closing the human gender gap. (I say this as
someone who has read all types of WMF funding
When I first heard about the idea - I was timid and concerned. However,
after reading the responses - I am not sure that everyone is looking at
this the right way. My concerns have been addressed, largely by the
commitment to accept time-sensitive requests and the description of the
idea.
It has
Values. It is a matter of values.
If you believe, as I do, that lack of diversity of Wikimedia projects is
seriously compromising the content of the projects then designing a
campaign that addresses one or more aspects of this concern is a reasonable
top priority even if it displaces other
* Liam Wyatt wrote:
I understand from the explanations that the reason for not accepting
any non-gender-gap focused grants for several months is because of the
expected workload on the staff in reviewing applications and
supporting the projects that do get funded.
However, what I don't understand
Maybe the carrot is the site notice to advertise it, and the fear is that
too many projects are being proposed? Which is good. But I am with lodewijk
that this is not the way to go. It only exposes the main weakness of the
current grant making process. It is global, central and has a lot of
On 7 January 2015 at 00:06, Siko Bouterse sboute...@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:17 PM, MF-Warburg mfwarb...@googlemail.com
wrote:
Sorry if this was already answered and I overlooked it, but will there be
something like a special form of advertising this campaign in order
Thanks for the details Siko!
Going back to the original message in this thread - I would indeed be
concerned if the WMF was shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3
months for no good reason.
However that's not really what's happening. It's more that non-urgent
grantmaking is being
Thanks Siko, also from me.
I do hope that you use this time to really learn of the dynamics of
grants/impact, by following up of earlier experience and also in
defining expectations targets etc in a specific area
For me an eyeopener was a program run in Sweden by WMSE to get more
female
At the opposite I consider that the limited time cannot produce
long-time effect, it's not rare that some good grants proceed to submit
a second phase to have a larger impact.
The best would be to check afterwards the impact of the solution of
promotion of a specific area and a specific
Hi Anders,
my 2 cents. A project has a budget, this budget can be financed
externally but there are some countries which have more opportunities
than others.
In addition (it's my personal point of view) the external funding
introduces a bigger complexity to the projects in terms of
Ilario,
My point is rather that while WLM has a clear-cut dynamic, put in
resources-get photos in Commons, I believe that in the area of
gender-gap the dynamic could be more complex (as in my example).
And if WMF only want to see a direct link between effort and impact,
they could miss out
It's also my point considering that to get external funds probably a
team (like WLM) can bu pushed to find a stronger impact outside
Wikimedia movement in order to get more external funds.
The Gender gap has a stronger potentiality because is more flexible to
be adapted to external funds, but
Anders Wennersten, 06/01/2015 12:26:
I believe that in the area of gender-gap the dynamic could be more
complex (as in my example).
And if WMF only want to see a direct link between effort and impact,
they could miss out other dynamics.
I think this is always a good point to remind ourselves,
Sorry if this was already answered and I overlooked it, but will there be
something like a special form of advertising this campaign in order to
attract many requests that propose to do something about the Gender Gap?
2015-01-06 21:11 GMT+01:00 Siko Bouterse sboute...@wikimedia.org:
On Tue, Jan
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
wrote:
Actually, the experiment is whether such a campaign would drive more
successful grants, as I understand it. It works from the assumption that
such grants would have a positive impact. I'm happy to go with that
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se
wrote:
Thanks Siko, also from me.
I do hope that you use this time to really learn of the dynamics of
grants/impact, by following up of earlier experience and also in defining
expectations targets etc in a specific
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:17 PM, MF-Warburg mfwarb...@googlemail.com
wrote:
Sorry if this was already answered and I overlooked it, but will there be
something like a special form of advertising this campaign in order to
attract many requests that propose to do something about the Gender Gap?
Actually, the experiment is whether such a campaign would drive more
successful grants, as I understand it. It works from the assumption that
such grants would have a positive impact. I'm happy to go with that
assumption though.
I still strongly disagree with this initiative, but especially the
BumpingI do not see any response on this mailing list from the
Grantmaking team, and I can't actually find very much about this entire
plan on the Grants portal at Meta (which may say more about the grants
portal than about the dissemination of the plant).
However, since this is something
First day back from vacation, I'm drafting response as we speak, just
haven't sanity-checked enough to hit send yet :) Will soon!
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
BumpingI do not see any response on this mailing list from the
Grantmaking team, and I can't
Hi all,
This is not exactly how we were hoping to announce the Inspire Campaign on
this list, but now that I'm back online, let's try this again...
First, to clarify some key points:
*Yes, we are taking a 3 month break from funding regular
all-kinds-of-proposals in both IEG and PEG programs
* Siko Bouterse wrote:
Why the gender gap? Although we’ve committed to supporting and increasing
gender diversity, so far these kinds of projects haven’t emerged
organically at any meaningful scale. In the first half of this year, IEG
and PEG have spent only 9% of funds on projects aiming to
Did you not see the bit about experimental?
Cheers,
Peter
-Original Message-
From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Bjoern Hoehrmann
Sent: 06 January 2015 05:48 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l]
Hello Jane,
Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the coverage of
so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects which do
not aim for such.
I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and that
As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need to
panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
community in order
Hi Romaine, is there a link to an on-wiki page that states this.
Based on your email, it is unfortunate that rather than stating that
PEG/IEGs would be prioritized to gendergap proposals for a time, the
choice appears to be to reject everything else.
I am not against positive discrimination
Le 03/01/2015 12:55, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
Hi Fae,
I haven't seen a page about this on wiki yet. It appears that various
volunteers who are working on organizing are informed about this behind the
scenes directly.
It also was mentioned in a discussion about the organisation of Wiki Loves
This is not a good point but it always the same point of discussion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar
Nothing new.
Both models have their own strengths and their own weaknesses.
regards
On 03.01.2015 14:57, Mathias Damour wrote:
User:Pi zero made a pretty good
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote:
It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
..and I am hoping to see lots of gendergap paint
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
wrote:
I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the wider
community in an earlier
I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the wider
community in an earlier stage. I hope that the fact they did not do this,
means they are reconsidering the way this campaign is shaped.
As indicated
Hi all,
I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for the
grantmaking process. There is a difference between shutting down the
grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months and adding a
voluntary gendergap theme to a project to get better funding chances.
So I
There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this case it is
about female participation.
I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants is
dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this does not
give any good reason to exclude good projects who
Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only 6%
female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for the
Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main theme
for the
Hi all,
I think that it's important to say that someone of the grant's team
probably will be out until 11th January (I have received an out of
office), so I suggest to postpone this discussion if we would not
proceed to a
conviction in absentia.
Personally I had some concerns and I did a
I find it interesting to discover via this conversation that it has not
been defined yet!
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation,
I would not comment but it's important to define if this gap has been
minimal in the past.
If the femal participation has always been under the 10% (in 10 years)
within a community, probably there are some infrastructural problems to
be analyzed.
The expected impact can be perceived as a
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
female-related topics.
I would say it is both, but in either case this would be important to
define if that is the criteria on which to solicit proposals.
..and I dream of repetitive metrics that can be compared year to year
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
Ethically, I would rather defer a proposal, such as one for Wiki Loves
Pride or a more general diversity event, until the restriction is lifted.
There is too much
Ethically, I would rather defer a proposal, such as one for Wiki Loves
Pride or a more general diversity event, until the restriction is lifted.
There is too much pointless political flim flam already in our Wikimedia
community without masking events as GenderGap for the sake of faking
metrics.
Teemu,
Of course! Not only that, but I think that an internal survey already shows
that WLM attracts a higher percentage of female contributors than any other
project that measured it. Don't assume by the subject heading of this
thread that any WLM project is being shut down. In fact, nothing is
Hei,
5 cents: would it make a difference if the Wiki Loves Monuments / Art project
plans (and others) will explicitly promise that, for instance, the gender (f/m)
balance of the participants (n 500) will be 40/60 and +50% of them will be new
editors?
This would be meet the strategic
For everyone here: I've asked our Grantmaking team to comment and clarify
the details of this plan.
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
wrote:
Answering to Teemu and Chris:
I do think that the for Wiki Loves Monuments and Wiki Loves Art it is safe
to claim
Answering to Teemu and Chris:
I do think that the for Wiki Loves Monuments and Wiki Loves Art it is safe
to claim that if we organize it the way we would always do, it would still
tip the gender balance in our community a little more to the female side.
However, I disagree that this should be a
Nope. Whether or not lots and lots of female-related content is generated
and by whom, the participation factor is crucial. Without the women, there
is no female perspective, period. And as far as gender measurement goes,
even if you count all the ones who declined to specify their gender, the
It is perfectly defined, it only matters which point of view you take.
The Wikimedia movement consists out of people, projects and content. There
is less content about so-called female topics. There seem to be less
projects that specifically cover those so-called female topics. And there
are less
Like Bence, I would be interested to see how this kind of experiment in WMF
grantmaking works out. And also like him I would be a little surprised if
something like this is implemented with no notice period.
A couple of responses to Lodewijk's post;
with people
confirming my fear that this
Hi Jane,
Read!
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
From February 1-April 30, PEG will only accept
proposals as part of the gender gap campaign, with the exception for urgent
requests.
This means regular projects will not be accepted. That is
Thanks Lila!
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Lila Tretikov l...@wikimedia.org wrote:
For everyone here: I've asked our Grantmaking team to comment and clarify
the details of this plan.
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
wrote:
Answering to Teemu and
I hate to fall in repetition of the discussion we had already on the wiki
loves monuments mailing list about this but:
- the problems we identified are far more general than Wiki Loves
Monuments. Even if WLM is fully unaffected, our points stand because that
would be because of timing and not
Hi Ilario,
As said before, that certain grant requests are submitted late, it doesn't
mean it is a good idea.
I was also not speaking about WLM organizers alone, but about all
organizers in general.
Shutting down the grantmaking for them is highly demotivating. Also when it
does not effect them
Le 03/01/2015 14:58, Jane Darnell a écrit :
As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need to
panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
campaign is scheduled to be one of
Yes, considering that WLM mailing list has less subscribers than this
one, I suppose that it's better to repeat here this question.
The discussion is now out of that thread because it has opened a new one
here.
This may be helpful for people who do not understand the root cause of
this
Hi Romaine,
probably it's my feeling but a lot of countries apply for a grant for
WLM very late (in general during summer).
So it cannot be demotivating for WLM.
I do not understand the impact of the project to assign the first three
months of 2015 to a specific topic with the normal period
Allow me to throw in some perspective here, since I think I stand somewhere
between midway and the opposite end of the spectrum vis-à-vis this discussion.
Wiadomość napisana przez Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com w dniu 4 sty
2015, o godz. 05:21:
Hi Ilario,
As said before, that
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