Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-29 Thread Tim Starling
On 05/07/13 22:09, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
 The recent community initiative with the highest impact I can think of
 is surely what Platonides and other members of the global (technical)
 community did on pt.wiki. Platonides noticed a configuration error on
 pt.wiki: CAPTCHA was required for all edits since 2008. The error was
 fixed in April. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/41745
 
 Fresh stats produced by the WMF show that in May and June this
 produced a decrease of overall vandalism (or rather, of reverted
 edits) with a shocking +58 % increase of productive edits by IPs and
 +23 % for registered users. It seems pt.wiki may see the end of the
 decline after many years. :)
 https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio(a):HAndrade_(WMF)/Pesquisa_Vandalismo/Segunda_Faseoldid=36301585
 
 
 Discussion is ongoing on how pt.wiki will address this growth. Part of
 the community may think that nao estamos preparados para crescer.
 https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/Wikip%C3%A9dia/Reuni%C3%B5es/Reuni%C3%A3o_IRC_21-06-2013

Note that CAPTCHAs have now been re-enabled on the Portuguese
Wikipedia. Erik made the decision, in response to on-wiki consensus. I
deployed the change just now.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860#c75

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-29 Thread MZMcBride
Tim Starling wrote:
Note that CAPTCHAs have now been re-enabled on the Portuguese
Wikipedia. Erik made the decision, in response to on-wiki consensus. I
deployed the change just now.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860#c75

Lest there be any confusion or doubt: this is a Bad Thing. We should take
this time to explicitly state here (or even re-state here, it's important)
that using CAPTCHAs in this way is a fundamental violation of our core
principles, particularly site accessibility and openness.

As a compromise measure between wiki sovereignty and autonomy and our
deeply held values, there's been a temporary reinstatement of the CAPTCHAs
on the Portuguese Wikipedia for the remainder of 2013. After December 31,
2013, these CAPTCHAs will be re-disabled. Hopefully no other wiki will
feel the need to invoke such a drastic measure ever again.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-12 Thread ImperfectlyInformed
Steven Walling steven.walling@... writes:

 
 On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Erik Moeller erik at wikimedia.org
wrote:
 
  On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Steven Walling swalling at
wikimedia.org
  wrote:
   On July 11th at the next WMF Metrics  Activities meeting, myself, Erik
   Möller, Howie Fung, Maryana Pinchuk, and Dario Taraborelli are going to
   deliver a short update on the state of Wikimedia editor communities. (For
   those not familiar:
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings)
 
  This presentation will be at the meeting in 30 minutes. Don't worry if
  you're interested but can't make it; the meeting will be recorded.
 
 
 The video is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALT8_Toyc0g now.
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Thanks for posting the video. My thoughts below went longer than I expected,
so I'll start with a tl;dr.

TL;DR: more is not always better in encyclopedia-building; please include
more analysis of the old-timers in your stats; the drama issues could
probably use a little bit of attention; find and help the community engage
the editors who interface with newbies; Wikiproject Med has tried to work on
recruiting scientists - a good idea; on curation and quality control, we
could use edit metadata; and please slow down and show you're actually
listening when it comes to Visual Editor.

1. Mixing up the gender and geographical distribution is a lofty and
laudable goal, but you may want to be a little careful of neglecting your
base. I also agree with a later comment that a high male ratio could
negatively affect the discussion process, which tends to be quite testy in
a few different ways, so more women could have beneficial side effects.
However, there are also risks when you change Wikipedia's population: for
example, if editing became mainstream in America Wikipedia's
secular-humanist/rational slant could be significantly eroded. I don't think
it is a big risk but it's something to keep in mind.

2. I was disappointed to hear that the analysis of active editors focused on
editors with 5+ edits/month. I'd like to see a stratified breakdown and it
seems like it wouldn't be hard to do. This plays into the caution above that
not much attention is paid to the long-term regulars, although the presenter
alluded to earlier research showing their staying power.

I've been following this list for maybe a month or two now and I'm a little
surprised that little to none of the regular wiki drama seems to leak out
and that the metrics made no mention of the drama. I'm sort of glad that
there is little drama in this world, but I hope it's not ignorance. For
example, the English wiki has been a bit more dramatic lately with some
high-profile admin and editor resignations leaving and concerns about unfair
processes (e.g., SMcCandlish). Some of it is just interpersonal and maybe
it's not different than usual, but it would be nice to have more than
anecdotal observations. There's also reoccurring controversies about
civility enforcement (I rarely bother to weigh in, but I believe in
enforcing civility). I think there might be a role for the Foundation in
researching these types of issues and streamlining some of the tools.

3. I agree that user experience is poor and I agree with all 5 points listed
in the reasons for stagnation. Poor social interaction is particularly
serious. Maybe there is something being done that I'm unaware of but as a
first start I would try to identify the editors who have a lot interaction
with new users and try to communicate with them. I'm not one of those users;
in the rare case that I see a promising new editor in my areas I welcome,
but I have never left a template without adding a short personal note
afterwards (the welcome template of Twinkle has no field for an optional
message, so it takes a little extra work). However, just today I noticed
that a newbie I mentored a little and who made significant improvements to
the PPACA (Obamacare) got hit by speedy image deletion templates with scary
you may be blocked bolded messages and no personal touch, even though the
images may well have been just fine. The templater probably templates a lot
of people and could use some mentoring, although how to approach that in a
polite manner is its own challenge (I gave him my 2 cents). This is also an
area where the community could develop yet more rules (oh fun!) to rein in
those who interface with new users.

4. On campaigns and editathons, I know the WikiProject Medicine, mainly
through Doc James, had been trying to engage with biomedical scientists and
doctors. This type of outreach is particularly nice because these are
exactly the type of smart and mature people you'd like to see building an
encyclopedia. We've also seen 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-11 Thread Erik Moeller
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 On July 11th at the next WMF Metrics  Activities meeting, myself, Erik
 Möller, Howie Fung, Maryana Pinchuk, and Dario Taraborelli are going to
 deliver a short update on the state of Wikimedia editor communities. (For
 those not familiar:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings)

This presentation will be at the meeting in 30 minutes. Don't worry if
you're interested but can't make it; the meeting will be recorded.


--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-11 Thread Tim Starling
On 05/07/13 22:09, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
 The recent community initiative with the highest impact I can think of
 is surely what Platonides and other members of the global (technical)
 community did on pt.wiki. Platonides noticed a configuration error on
 pt.wiki: CAPTCHA was required for all edits since 2008. The error was
 fixed in April. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/41745

Saying that Platonides discovered a configuration error on pt.wp and
fixed it is a bit like saying Captain Cook discovered New Zealand and
fixed its lack of pigs.

Of course, the pt.wp community was well aware of the situation. The
response of the pt.wp community to the original emergency -- asking
for CAPTCHAs to be enabled for everyone -- was very specific to that
community. I have to wonder whether the requesters were hoping for
implicit permanence.

It's a reminder that we need a robust procedure for making temporary
changes. In the past we have relied on the requester saying to us
afterwards ok, it's all done now, you can revert it. That doesn't
work if temporary is said with a wink.

-- Tim Starling



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-11 Thread Steven Walling
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
  On July 11th at the next WMF Metrics  Activities meeting, myself, Erik
  Möller, Howie Fung, Maryana Pinchuk, and Dario Taraborelli are going to
  deliver a short update on the state of Wikimedia editor communities. (For
  those not familiar:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings)

 This presentation will be at the meeting in 30 minutes. Don't worry if
 you're interested but can't make it; the meeting will be recorded.


The video is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALT8_Toyc0g now.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-11 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Tim Starling, 12/07/2013 01:14:

Of course, the pt.wp community was well aware of the situation.


I don't think so. Some community members were, but very few. It took 7 
months to get a local discussion/vote on the matter start and conclude.
Proceurally, the absence of consensus for the configuration is the 
reason why the default was restored.


 The

response of the pt.wp community to the original emergency -- asking
for CAPTCHAs to be enabled for everyone -- was very specific to that
community. I have to wonder whether the requesters were hoping for
implicit permanence.

It's a reminder that we need a robust procedure for making temporary
changes. In the past we have relied on the requester saying to us
afterwards ok, it's all done now, you can revert it. That doesn't
work if temporary is said with a wink.


Indeed.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-11 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Steven Walling
steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
  On July 11th at the next WMF Metrics  Activities meeting, myself, Erik
  Möller, Howie Fung, Maryana Pinchuk, and Dario Taraborelli are going to
  deliver a short update on the state of Wikimedia editor communities. (For
  those not familiar:
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings)

 This presentation will be at the meeting in 30 minutes. Don't worry if
 you're interested but can't make it; the meeting will be recorded.


 The video is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALT8_Toyc0g now.
And on a certain other website too:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_Monthly_Metrics_Meeting_July_11,_2013.webm
(as usually, the video will also be included in the monthly WMF report
and Wikimedia Highlights)

-- 
Tilman Bayer
Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
Wikimedia Foundation
IRC (Freenode): HaeB

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-07 Thread Samuel Klein
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Oona Castro ocas...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 For now, it's worth mentioning the Portuguese Wikipedia community has been
 working on this antivandalism project
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Projetos/AntiVandalismoin
 order to build alternative measures to deal with vandalism and
 inappropriate edits with a very small portion of the community reverting
 edits - considering the short and mid terms.

 They are already aware that even the return of emergency CAPTCHA won't be a
 definite measure (lasting no more than one year, as per what was agreed)

As much as I dislike captchas, this seems like a considered decision
by the Portuguese Wikipedians.  We should support local wiki
communities in making choices for themselves -- and help them to run
short-term experiments, evaluate the results, and correct mistakes.

Letting communities make and learn form their own mistakes is more
important than always being 'right' for one definition of rightness:
we can learn from many independent communities, each with their own
standards.  Of course we all want to improve editor engagement +
retention, and overall quality + coverage - the pt:wp community does
too!  The question is how to trade off between these.

One requirement for making a controversial configuration change - or
for continuing it beyond a short initial test period - might be the
ability of the requesting community to evaluate its effect.

Sam.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-07 Thread Henrique Andrade
I'm following this ptwiki captcha case closely and I think I can bring some
elements for this conversation.

The portuguese community was surprised by the removal of catcha promoted by
the global (technical) community. This situation led then to react and a
long discussion was held not only about captcha but also about community
autonomy. Following Nemo sugestion on bug 41745 the Portuguese community
voted a new proposal to enable the captcha again.

When we look to the stats of ptwiki in May and June it is certain that the
number of reversions has increased a lot, but it is also true that the
number of non-reverted editions raised even more. But some editors claim
that sysop and rollbackers are overloaded and this numbers are showing us
that more garbage (revisions that should be reverted) is staying in
ptwiki and not that we are having more good faith editions. I believe that
it is very hard for us to tell which theory is right without performing an
A/B test.

Besides this debate, it is notorious that sysops and rollbackers are
felling overloaded and the growth of gross number of edits that should be
reverted (independent of the number of good editions) is a real concern for
the ptwiki quality. The community felt that it wasn't ready to deal with
this new amount of edits and decided that they should do something in the
short term to avoid demotivation of vandalism fighters, and the solution
they came up with was enabling the captcha again.

But, as Oona said, they know it cannot be a definite measure and the
AntiVadalism Project (
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Projetos/AntiVandalismo)
was reactivated willing to create mid and long term measure to fight
vandalism enabling the community to deactivate captcha. In this context,
one think  proposed is the use of the captcha associated with AbuseFilter
(as Steven suggested), but for this to happen bug 18110 should be
implemented. Also, they proposed bug 41522 to evaluated which kind of
editions are being kept away by the captcha (trying Marc Pelletier's
theory) and are working on improving bots, filters and asking for new users
to became rollbackers.

So, I think ptwiki community is leading many efforts to create sustainable
growth, and right now the captcha is a contextualized temporary part of the
plan.

Best,



Henrique Andrade


On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Oona Castro ocas...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
  For now, it's worth mentioning the Portuguese Wikipedia community has
 been
  working on this antivandalism project
 
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Projetos/AntiVandalismoin
  order to build alternative measures to deal with vandalism and
  inappropriate edits with a very small portion of the community reverting
  edits - considering the short and mid terms.
 
  They are already aware that even the return of emergency CAPTCHA won't
 be a
  definite measure (lasting no more than one year, as per what was agreed)

 As much as I dislike captchas, this seems like a considered decision
 by the Portuguese Wikipedians.  We should support local wiki
 communities in making choices for themselves -- and help them to run
 short-term experiments, evaluate the results, and correct mistakes.

 Letting communities make and learn form their own mistakes is more
 important than always being 'right' for one definition of rightness:
 we can learn from many independent communities, each with their own
 standards.  Of course we all want to improve editor engagement +
 retention, and overall quality + coverage - the pt:wp community does
 too!  The question is how to trade off between these.

 One requirement for making a controversial configuration change - or
 for continuing it beyond a short initial test period - might be the
 ability of the requesting community to evaluate its effect.

 Sam.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-06 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi Steven,

When the facts show that having the CAPTCHA is a demonstrable BAD idea. It
should be easy to prevent CAPTCHA from being implemented again.

I am sure you know who to speak to.

Thanks,
  GerardM


On 5 July 2013 21:02, Steven Walling swall...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Denny Vrandečić 
 denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote:

  Wait - removing the captchas lead to a decrease of reverted edits in
 terms
  of absolute numbers? Woot? Anyone has an explanation for that?


 I think the explanation is pretty clear from the numbers Nemo shared. This
 CAPTCHA was annoying as hell, and was directed not just at people adding
 links or hitting some kind of AbuseFilter, but everyone who was editing
 anonymously or with a new account. It was literally throwing the baby out
 with the bath water.

 As someone who had to experience that CAPTCHA as a new user on ptwiki last
 year, I am not surprised at all that we attracted many more positive
 contributions just by removing it. Sadly, from looking at bug 49860 and
 gerrit change 69982, it seems that this deeply annoying feature is going to
 be put back in place.

 --
 Steven Walling
 https://wikimediafoundation.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-06 Thread Asaf Bartov
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hoi Steven,

 When the facts show that having the CAPTCHA is a demonstrable BAD idea. It
 should be easy to prevent CAPTCHA from being implemented again.


To be precise, the facts do not show that.  They show the CAPTCHA is
responsible for significantly fewer good-faith contributions from casual
editors.  That is is or is not a bad idea, however, is a subjective
judgment, based on one's weighing of multiple factors.

Evidently, large parts of the PTWP community remain convinced that the
downsides of not having the CAPTCHA (easier vandalism? admin workload? --
I'm not really following that debate) outweigh the upsides.  You (and I)
may well disagree, but let's recognize that this depends on our _judgment_
of priorities.

Whether or not an editing community's mandate for self-governance should
extend to the right to make such a fundamentally anti-wiki measure as the
emergency CAPTCHA feature a permanent one is debatable, of course.

   Asaf
-- 
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-06 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Asaf Bartov, 06/07/2013 23:51:

To be precise, the facts do not show that.  They show the CAPTCHA is
responsible for significantly fewer good-faith contributions from casual
editors.  That is is or is not a bad idea, however, is a subjective
judgment, based on one's weighing of multiple factors.

Evidently, large parts of the PTWP community remain convinced that the
downsides of not having the CAPTCHA (easier vandalism? admin workload? --
I'm not really following that debate) outweigh the upsides.


It's worth noting, among other things, that the vote in question ended 
just before the stats were released.


Nemo


You (and I)
may well disagree, but let's recognize that this depends on our _judgment_
of priorities.

Whether or not an editing community's mandate for self-governance should
extend to the right to make such a fundamentally anti-wiki measure as the
emergency CAPTCHA feature a permanent one is debatable, of course.

Asaf



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-06 Thread Oona Castro
That's been a very complex issue. Henrique will bring more context into
here.

For now, it's worth mentioning the Portuguese Wikipedia community has been
working on this antivandalism project
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Projetos/AntiVandalismoin
order to build alternative measures to deal with vandalism and
inappropriate edits with a very small portion of the community reverting
edits - considering the short and mid terms.

They are already aware that even the return of emergency CAPTCHA won't be a
definite measure (lasting no more than one year, as per what was agreed)
and are handling to create other ways of preventing inappropriate content
through new approaches.

I actually believe that's a good idea and am happy to see there has been a
lot of work on that - out of comfort zone, but also conscious of the
current limitations in place.

Oona




On 6 July 2013 20:22, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Asaf Bartov, 06/07/2013 23:51:

  To be precise, the facts do not show that.  They show the CAPTCHA is
 responsible for significantly fewer good-faith contributions from casual
 editors.  That is is or is not a bad idea, however, is a subjective
 judgment, based on one's weighing of multiple factors.

 Evidently, large parts of the PTWP community remain convinced that the
 downsides of not having the CAPTCHA (easier vandalism? admin workload? --
 I'm not really following that debate) outweigh the upsides.


 It's worth noting, among other things, that the vote in question ended
 just before the stats were released.

 Nemo


  You (and I)
 may well disagree, but let's recognize that this depends on our _judgment_
 of priorities.

 Whether or not an editing community's mandate for self-governance should
 extend to the right to make such a fundamentally anti-wiki measure as the
 emergency CAPTCHA feature a permanent one is debatable, of course.

 Asaf


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-05 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
The recent community initiative with the highest impact I can think of 
is surely what Platonides and other members of the global (technical) 
community did on pt.wiki. Platonides noticed a configuration error on 
pt.wiki: CAPTCHA was required for all edits since 2008. The error was 
fixed in April. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/41745


Fresh stats produced by the WMF show that in May and June this produced 
a decrease of overall vandalism (or rather, of reverted edits) with a 
shocking +58 % increase of productive edits by IPs and +23 % for 
registered users. It seems pt.wiki may see the end of the decline after 
many years. :)

https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio(a):HAndrade_(WMF)/Pesquisa_Vandalismo/Segunda_Faseoldid=36301585

Discussion is ongoing on how pt.wiki will address this growth. Part of 
the community may think that nao estamos preparados para crescer.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/Wikip%C3%A9dia/Reuni%C3%B5es/Reuni%C3%A3o_IRC_21-06-2013

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-05 Thread Denny Vrandečić
Wait - removing the captchas lead to a decrease of reverted edits in terms
of absolute numbers? Woot? Anyone has an explanation for that?




2013/7/5 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com

 The recent community initiative with the highest impact I can think of is
 surely what Platonides and other members of the global (technical)
 community did on pt.wiki. Platonides noticed a configuration error on
 pt.wiki: CAPTCHA was required for all edits since 2008. The error was fixed
 in April. 
 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.**org/41745https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/41745
 

 Fresh stats produced by the WMF show that in May and June this produced a
 decrease of overall vandalism (or rather, of reverted edits) with a
 shocking +58 % increase of productive edits by IPs and +23 % for registered
 users. It seems pt.wiki may see the end of the decline after many years. :)
 https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/**index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio(**
 a):HAndrade_(WMF)/Pesquisa_**Vandalismo/Segunda_Faseoldid=**36301585https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio(a):HAndrade_(WMF)/Pesquisa_Vandalismo/Segunda_Faseoldid=36301585
 

 Discussion is ongoing on how pt.wiki will address this growth. Part of the
 community may think that nao estamos preparados para crescer.
 https://pt.wikipedia.org/**wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/**
 Wikip%C3%A9dia/Reuni%C3%B5es/**Reuni%C3%A3o_IRC_21-06-2013https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/Wikip%C3%A9dia/Reuni%C3%B5es/Reuni%C3%A3o_IRC_21-06-2013
 

 Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-05 Thread Marco Chiesa
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Denny Vrandečić 
denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 Wait - removing the captchas lead to a decrease of reverted edits in terms
 of absolute numbers? Woot? Anyone has an explanation for that?



Maybe a CAPTCHA is effective at demotivating bona fide editors and
motivates vandal, which vandalize as a revenge for the CAPTCHA? That would
be interesting :)
Marco



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-05 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Denny Vrandečić, 05/07/2013 17:42:

Wait - removing the captchas lead to a decrease of reverted edits in terms
of absolute numbers? Woot? Anyone has an explanation for that?


No, sorry if I was misleading: decrease in relative numbers only. :)
The tables are fairly readable even if you don't know Portuguese, I try 
not to be too verbose sometimes. :P


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-05 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 07/05/2013 01:07 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
 No, sorry if I was misleading: decrease in relative numbers only.

That's not surprising; someone with malice aforethought isn't going to
be stopped by a captcha, someone who just though Hey, I'll correct that
typo is likely to not want to bother.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-07-05 Thread Steven Walling
On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Denny Vrandečić 
denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 Wait - removing the captchas lead to a decrease of reverted edits in terms
 of absolute numbers? Woot? Anyone has an explanation for that?


I think the explanation is pretty clear from the numbers Nemo shared. This
CAPTCHA was annoying as hell, and was directed not just at people adding
links or hitting some kind of AbuseFilter, but everyone who was editing
anonymously or with a new account. It was literally throwing the baby out
with the bath water.

As someone who had to experience that CAPTCHA as a new user on ptwiki last
year, I am not surprised at all that we attracted many more positive
contributions just by removing it. Sadly, from looking at bug 49860 and
gerrit change 69982, it seems that this deeply annoying feature is going to
be put back in place.

-- 
Steven Walling
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-06-25 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

 1) I'm confused: first you ask about community initiatives then you list
 activities by chapters and the like. Community initiative makes me think
 of edit drives, custom tools and scripts, processes, guidelines,
 configurations.


Sorry for the confusion. I'm open to hearing about any non-WMF activity,
but I assumed that people would be most knowledgeable
about initiatives that came from chapters or other parts of the community.


 2) Are you interested in last year or all our history?


Let's say since about 2011, with more recent being of primary interest.


  3) Is it really impossible to look for the impact on the statistics
 (assuming you're speaking of eiting activity) and then ask what caused the
 impact? How much big but indetected/undetectable impact is there? (There
 must be contrasting forces for that.) Are you interested in impact that
 can't be even seen in statistics?


We're also looking at which projects are growing, so as you say, looking at
the stats and then asking what caused it. If you are aware of a editor
recruitment or retention activity that measured, I'd also be interested in
hearing about that, even if it didn't necessarily make some kind of visible
 jump in the total active editors of a project.

Steven

P.S. Thanks to the folks who reached out off-list with examples.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-06-25 Thread Asaf Bartov
Briefly, from the train (so no links):

1. The Wikipedia Challenge competitions were not community initiatives;
they were Google initiatives.

2. Agree with Nemo about tools' importance.

3. I'd call out the Tamil Wikipedia Media Contest: great return on very
modest investment (of funds); and the Malayalam WikiSangaMotsavam, a series
of community and outreach events around a big community gathering, that
correlates with a noticeable rise in active editors in MLWP.  Both are
community initiatives supported by WMF grants.

   A.
On Jun 25, 2013 11:05 AM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
 nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

  1) I'm confused: first you ask about community initiatives then you list
  activities by chapters and the like. Community initiative makes me
 think
  of edit drives, custom tools and scripts, processes, guidelines,
  configurations.
 

 Sorry for the confusion. I'm open to hearing about any non-WMF activity,
 but I assumed that people would be most knowledgeable
 about initiatives that came from chapters or other parts of the community.


  2) Are you interested in last year or all our history?
 

 Let's say since about 2011, with more recent being of primary interest.


   3) Is it really impossible to look for the impact on the statistics
  (assuming you're speaking of eiting activity) and then ask what caused
 the
  impact? How much big but indetected/undetectable impact is there? (There
  must be contrasting forces for that.) Are you interested in impact that
  can't be even seen in statistics?
 

 We're also looking at which projects are growing, so as you say, looking at
 the stats and then asking what caused it. If you are aware of a editor
 recruitment or retention activity that measured, I'd also be interested in
 hearing about that, even if it didn't necessarily make some kind of visible
  jump in the total active editors of a project.

 Steven

 P.S. Thanks to the folks who reached out off-list with examples.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-06-25 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Briefly, from the train (so no links):

 1. The Wikipedia Challenge competitions were not community initiatives;
 they were Google initiatives.

 2. Agree with Nemo about tools' importance.

 3. I'd call out the Tamil Wikipedia Media Contest: great return on very
 modest investment (of funds); and the Malayalam WikiSangaMotsavam, a series
 of community and outreach events around a big community gathering, that
 correlates with a noticeable rise in active editors in MLWP.  Both are
 community initiatives supported by WMF grants.
I'm currently not on a train, so here are two links:
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/04/20/postcard-from-the-tamil-community/
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WikiSangamotsavam_2012/Malayalam_Wiki_Conference_2012/Report

A.
 On Jun 25, 2013 11:05 AM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
 nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

  1) I'm confused: first you ask about community initiatives then you list
  activities by chapters and the like. Community initiative makes me
 think
  of edit drives, custom tools and scripts, processes, guidelines,
  configurations.
 

 Sorry for the confusion. I'm open to hearing about any non-WMF activity,
 but I assumed that people would be most knowledgeable
 about initiatives that came from chapters or other parts of the community.


  2) Are you interested in last year or all our history?
 

 Let's say since about 2011, with more recent being of primary interest.


   3) Is it really impossible to look for the impact on the statistics
  (assuming you're speaking of eiting activity) and then ask what caused
 the
  impact? How much big but indetected/undetectable impact is there? (There
  must be contrasting forces for that.) Are you interested in impact that
  can't be even seen in statistics?
 

 We're also looking at which projects are growing, so as you say, looking at
 the stats and then asking what caused it. If you are aware of a editor
 recruitment or retention activity that measured, I'd also be interested in
 hearing about that, even if it didn't necessarily make some kind of visible
  jump in the total active editors of a project.

 Steven

 P.S. Thanks to the folks who reached out off-list with examples.
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Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
Wikimedia Foundation
IRC (Freenode): HaeB

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?

2013-06-24 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Steven Walling, 23/06/2013 01:34:

One obvious example that comes to mind is Wiki Loves Monuments. Others are
the Wikipedia Challenge in Kiswahili and Setswana, and edit-a-thons, such
as this year's fashion edit-a-thon put together by Wikimedia Sverige.

What am I missing from this list?


I don't know, mny things.
1) I'm confused: first you ask about community initiatives then you list 
activities by chapters and the like. Community initiative makes me 
think of edit drives, custom tools and scripts, processes, guidelines, 
configurations.

2) Are you interested in last year or all our history?
3) Is it really impossible to look for the impact on the statistics 
(assuming you're speaking of eiting activity) and then ask what caused 
the impact? How much big but indetected/undetectable impact is there? 
(There must be contrasting forces for that.) Are you interested in 
impact that can't be even seen in statistics?


Nemo

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