Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 133, Issue 17

[Lilburne]

On 05/04/2015 14:13, Mike Godwin wrote:

Lilburne writes:

"> My friends and colleagues at EFF, Access Now, and elsewhere -- as well

as individual scholars and commentators like Marvin Ammori -- know me,

"Those will all be Google shills correct?"

Incorrect. My work, and EFF's work, to take two example, predate
Google's involvement in public policy by 15 years.


Really! Seems that the EFF et al have been shilling for tech 
corporations at the expense
of consumers for about 15 years or so. The others from the day before 
they formed.




I understand that for "keyboard cowboys" it may be hard to understand
that mere agreement with a corporation some of the time does not equal
being a "shill" and does not entail agreeing with a corporation all
the time. But those of us who actually do activism and public policy
work know who we are and why we do it.


Its not a case of 'sometimes' its nigh on all the time. You'd be more 
accurate to list the
dozen or so times in the last 15 years when the EFF hasn't played drum 
major to corporate

tech, beating out a voodoo rhythm  to entrance the unwary.


In those contexts, I've never heard of you before. Tell us more about
your activism and public-policy work!



Well one thing I don't need to go about name dropping to justify my words.



___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 133, Issue 17

[Mike Godwin]

Lilburne writes:

"> My friends and colleagues at EFF, Access Now, and elsewhere -- as well
> as individual scholars and commentators like Marvin Ammori -- know me,

"Those will all be Google shills correct?"

Incorrect. My work, and EFF's work, to take two example, predate
Google's involvement in public policy by 15 years.

I understand that for "keyboard cowboys" it may be hard to understand
that mere agreement with a corporation some of the time does not equal
being a "shill" and does not entail agreeing with a corporation all
the time. But those of us who actually do activism and public policy
work know who we are and why we do it.

In those contexts, I've never heard of you before. Tell us more about
your activism and public-policy work!



--Mike





On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 5:42 AM,
 wrote:
> Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Fwd: Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice President of
>   Strategic Partnerships (Cristian Consonni)
>2. Call for Election Committee candidates (Alice Wiegand)
>3. Re: Fwd: Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice President of
>   Strategic Partnerships (Anthony Cole)
>4. Re: Fwd: Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice President of
>   Strategic Partnerships (Gerard Meijssen)
>5. Re: Announcing: The Wikipedia Prize! (Lila Tretikov)
>6. Re: Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice President of
>   Strategic Partnerships (Lilburne)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 19:44:21 +0200
> From: Cristian Consonni 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice
> President of Strategic Partnerships
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Andreas,
>
> 2015-04-02 18:25 GMT+02:00 Andreas Kolbe :
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Cristian Consonni 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 2015-04-02 15:16 GMT+02:00 Andreas Kolbe :
>> As mentioned previously, what I have seen is recent additions to
>> Internet.org, describing Internet.org app launches bundling Wikipedia Zero
>> and Facebook Zero (along with a small and varying number of other sites) in
>> the following countries:
>
> I need another clarification. As far as I know (and I recall a
> question in the board Q&A at Wikimania in London), it's internet.org
> making available Wikipedia content (as per the license) on their app.
> It is not an initiative of the Wikimedia Foundation and (therefore) it
> is not related to Wikipedia Zero. Also, internet.org/Facebook can do
> this thanks to our license (more below). Unless something changed in
> the last months you can not say that Wikipedia Zero is bundled with
> Facebook Zero.
>
> [...]
>
>> Note that Facebook actually seems to contain a complete mirror of
>> Wikipedia, judging by the presence of even fairly obscure Wikipedia
>> articles on its pages (selected using "Random article"). See e.g.
>
> This is failry old news, these pages exists since 2010:
> https://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/21721
>
>> Given the limitations Wikipedia Zero users labour under, it is actually
>> fairly immaterial to users whether they see the Wikipedia article in
>> Facebook Zero or Wikipedia Zero. The key difference is that in Facebook
>> Zero, they will not see Wikipedia's logo and fundraising banners. (They
>> also can't see the talk pages in Facebook.) They will have a less clear
>> impression of Wikipedia's brand, and the whole thing will still primarily
>> be a Facebook experience to them.
>
> I see the problem, but this is not related at all with Net Neutrality.
>
> This is what you can do with any free/libre content. There is no way
> to stop Facebook (or Flickr [sic et simpliciter]) from reusing our
> content. Let me quote SJ (again from the Board Q&A in London) "Please
> reuse our content". There should be as few limitations as possible to
> reusing the content, in principle. Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia
> for this very exact reason after all. Even in a world with the
> strongest possible Net Neutrality laws in force Facebook will be able
> to do this.
>
> Let me weigh in another argument, I know that the idea of a "Public
> space on the internet" is accepted even in the framework of Net
> Neutrality. The idea is that some list of websites that offer public
> services (e.g. government websites, public libraries websites, schools
> and universities websites) should always be