Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-13 Thread Leslie Carr
As the network person, I don't really see any benefit in joining
internet2, though I would see a benefit in possibly peering with them
at Equinix Ashburn, since according to their looking glass they have a
more direct connection to several AS'es than we do.


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote:
 Sneakernets are not particularly convenient. If the organizations of the
 net wanted to use that for data transfer, the net wouldn't exist.

 But I still think Wikimedia could increase/streamline accessibility to its
 information. It probably couldn't happen, but they have more than enough
 capacity to serve our content alone from eqiad (replacing or augmenting our
 existing links). Wikimedia also develops new ways to reach more people
 (such as MediaWiki mobile) like many of the organizations.

Internet2 is not set up as a true transit network, so this would not work.


 Another information organization that's participating is JSTOR, which I
 think is comparable to our projects as a source of information, so I think
 we can benefit from it.

 I'd respectfully disagree, as a Wikidata editor, that Commons is the only
 large database, because it may be large in terms of file size, but Wikidata
 has more tangible hard machine-readable data, with much more to come.


But from a network perspective, wikidata is a small database since it
is text... and the only benefit of joining internet2 is the network
connection.



 On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 4:41 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote:

  We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire
  knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass
  transfer of data from them.
 


 Still not significant.  The only really large database we have is the
 commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option
 there.

 --
 geni
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Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-13 Thread Leslie Carr
FYI  -

Also while I would see a benefit in peering, I would probably use the
transit or partial transit bgp group, since this is being like a
transit network, and I wouldn't want to overrule our better paths to
their downstream AS'es


-- Forwarded message --
From: Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org
Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org


As the network person, I don't really see any benefit in joining
internet2, though I would see a benefit in possibly peering with them
at Equinix Ashburn, since according to their looking glass they have a
more direct connection to several AS'es than we do.


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote:
 Sneakernets are not particularly convenient. If the organizations of the
 net wanted to use that for data transfer, the net wouldn't exist.

 But I still think Wikimedia could increase/streamline accessibility to its
 information. It probably couldn't happen, but they have more than enough
 capacity to serve our content alone from eqiad (replacing or augmenting our
 existing links). Wikimedia also develops new ways to reach more people
 (such as MediaWiki mobile) like many of the organizations.

Internet2 is not set up as a true transit network, so this would not work.


 Another information organization that's participating is JSTOR, which I
 think is comparable to our projects as a source of information, so I think
 we can benefit from it.

 I'd respectfully disagree, as a Wikidata editor, that Commons is the only
 large database, because it may be large in terms of file size, but Wikidata
 has more tangible hard machine-readable data, with much more to come.


But from a network perspective, wikidata is a small database since it
is text... and the only benefit of joining internet2 is the network
connection.



 On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 4:41 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote:

  We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire
  knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass
  transfer of data from them.
 


 Still not significant.  The only really large database we have is the
 commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option
 there.

 --
 geni
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--
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/


-- 
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-13 Thread Jasper Deng
Thanks for the feedback, Leslie.

Yeah it's more about having direct connections. I guess we can't really use
it to increase bandwidth except to people already on their network, but
those who are on the network do tend to use our sites a lot, since they
often have to do research.

I'm not clear on whether we would be merely peering with them or actually
adding another data link, since (for instance) Missouri University set up
their own IXP just to connect to their network. But peering seems to
achieve the desired result.


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 FYI  -

 Also while I would see a benefit in peering, I would probably use the
 transit or partial transit bgp group, since this is being like a
 transit network, and I wouldn't want to overrule our better paths to
 their downstream AS'es


 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org
 Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 1:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
 To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org


 As the network person, I don't really see any benefit in joining
 internet2, though I would see a benefit in possibly peering with them
 at Equinix Ashburn, since according to their looking glass they have a
 more direct connection to several AS'es than we do.


 On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com
 wrote:
  Sneakernets are not particularly convenient. If the organizations of the
  net wanted to use that for data transfer, the net wouldn't exist.
 
  But I still think Wikimedia could increase/streamline accessibility to
 its
  information. It probably couldn't happen, but they have more than enough
  capacity to serve our content alone from eqiad (replacing or augmenting
 our
  existing links). Wikimedia also develops new ways to reach more people
  (such as MediaWiki mobile) like many of the organizations.

 Internet2 is not set up as a true transit network, so this would not work.

 
  Another information organization that's participating is JSTOR, which I
  think is comparable to our projects as a source of information, so I
 think
  we can benefit from it.
 
  I'd respectfully disagree, as a Wikidata editor, that Commons is the only
  large database, because it may be large in terms of file size, but
 Wikidata
  has more tangible hard machine-readable data, with much more to come.
 

 But from a network perspective, wikidata is a small database since it
 is text... and the only benefit of joining internet2 is the network
 connection.


 
  On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 4:41 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com
 wrote:
 
   We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire
   knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a
 mass
   transfer of data from them.
  
 
 
  Still not significant.  The only really large database we have is the
  commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical
 option
  there.
 
  --
  geni
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 --
 Leslie Carr
 Wikimedia Foundation
 AS 14907, 43821
 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/


 --
 Leslie Carr
 Wikimedia Foundation
 AS 14907, 43821
 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-12 Thread Jasper Deng
From http://www.internet2.edu/about/ I see that they are also focused on
research.

From that, I got the impression that like us, they are committed to the
accessibility of knowledge. They state on their website that without them,
many college researchers may not be able to get the information they need.

They can always use their normal connection to access us, but having a
direct connection could improve this access.


On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

 Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 01:53:

  I then read the
 website and found that Wikimedia's and their missions go together very
 well; part of it is the commitment to sharing and spreading information.


 Where did you get this impression? I've read a few pages and to me it just
 seems the typical research network body.
 It's easy to see it from their international partners:
 http://internet2.edu/**international/partners/http://internet2.edu/international/partners/
 The only overlap I see is in defending net neutrality
 http://www.internet2.edu/**government/http://www.internet2.edu/government/but
  it's secondary in their work.

 Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-12 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 19:35:

 From http://www.internet2.edu/about/ I see that they are also focused
on research.

 From that, I got the impression that like us, they are committed to the
accessibility of knowledge. They state on their website that without
them, many college researchers may not be able to get the information
they need.

They can always use their normal connection to access us, but having a
direct connection could improve this access.


Direct connection to what? Research networks are among the best 
positioned in peering points.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-12 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 21:34:

Instead of passing through others' routing domains, we would have a
direct link/BGP session with them (should be feasible given the
proximity of their IXP).


http://noc.net.internet2.edu/uploads/j_/cI/j_cIw5DZ0TaRa-EArTqANg/internet2-cps-20090909.pdf 
suggests they're already peering at Ashburn. But seriously, such 
networks are about transfering datasets like 800 TB of oceanic and 
atmospheric data from one continent to another, their traffic with WMF 
is just peanuts.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-12 Thread Jasper Deng
We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire
knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass
transfer of data from them.


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

 Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 21:34:

  Instead of passing through others' routing domains, we would have a
 direct link/BGP session with them (should be feasible given the
 proximity of their IXP).


 http://noc.net.internet2.edu/**uploads/j_/cI/j_cIw5DZ0TaRa-**
 EArTqANg/internet2-cps-**20090909.pdfhttp://noc.net.internet2.edu/uploads/j_/cI/j_cIw5DZ0TaRa-EArTqANg/internet2-cps-20090909.pdf
 suggests they're already peering at Ashburn. But seriously, such networks
 are about transfering datasets like 800 TB of oceanic and atmospheric data
 from one continent to another, their traffic with WMF is just peanuts.

 Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-12 Thread geni
On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote:

 We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire
 knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass
 transfer of data from them.



Still not significant.  The only really large database we have is the
commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option
there.

-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-12 Thread Jasper Deng
Sneakernets are not particularly convenient. If the organizations of the
net wanted to use that for data transfer, the net wouldn't exist.

But I still think Wikimedia could increase/streamline accessibility to its
information. It probably couldn't happen, but they have more than enough
capacity to serve our content alone from eqiad (replacing or augmenting our
existing links). Wikimedia also develops new ways to reach more people
(such as MediaWiki mobile) like many of the organizations.

Another information organization that's participating is JSTOR, which I
think is comparable to our projects as a source of information, so I think
we can benefit from it.

I'd respectfully disagree, as a Wikidata editor, that Commons is the only
large database, because it may be large in terms of file size, but Wikidata
has more tangible hard machine-readable data, with much more to come.


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 4:41 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote:

  We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire
  knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass
  transfer of data from them.
 


 Still not significant.  The only really large database we have is the
 commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option
 there.

 --
 geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2

2013-10-11 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 01:53:

I then read the
website and found that Wikimedia's and their missions go together very
well; part of it is the commitment to sharing and spreading information.


Where did you get this impression? I've read a few pages and to me it 
just seems the typical research network body.
It's easy to see it from their international partners: 
http://internet2.edu/international/partners/
The only overlap I see is in defending net neutrality 
http://www.internet2.edu/government/ but it's secondary in their work.


Nemo

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