Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-25 Thread James Heilman
Meeting with a copyright lawyer out of Vancouver next week. Will have more details soon. James On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 3:55 PM, rupert THURNER wrote: > i got two further links in private mails which seem helpful in this > area. first, a page on commons which suggests

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-25 Thread rupert THURNER
i got two further links in private mails which seem helpful in this area. first, a page on commons which suggests to split commons in "safe" and "not safe". besides putting the license info and attribution into the picture this would be my personal favourite, as it can be easy explained to users:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Lilburne
It probably isn't fair. But then again without actually contacting the copyright holder the CC licenses are nothing more than a indicator that reuse may be OK. Then when you get into chains of derivatives you are in a world of pain. Websites are particularly prone to fouling up the licenses.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Lilburne
On 06/03/2017 06:37, Gergő Tisza wrote: On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Todd Allen wrote: I'm not a German speaker, and I know context and nuance can be lost in machine translation. That being said, the one about someone who was offering attribution and then got slapped

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Lilburne
On 07/03/2017 02:24, James Forrester wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 at 18:14 Lilburne > wrote: For the last 12 years Flickr have a system where people can click on a link and get the HTML or BBCODE that properly attributes

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Lodewijk
tion, if you > > press > > > the right icons. > > > > > > Jonatan Svensson Glad > > > Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons > > > > > > > On 7 Mar 2017, at 13:01, "wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org" < > > > wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Todd Allen
> > > Also, the MediaViewer offers HTML and plain text attribution, if you > press > > the right icons. > > > > Jonatan Svensson Glad > > Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons > > > > > On 7 Mar 2017, at 13:01, "wikime

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Lodewijk
kimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > > Re: a second commons,prevent cease and desist business > > ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and http

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Jonatan Svensson Glad
; > Re: a second commons, prevent cease and desist business ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-07 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki
Mailing List Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business For the last 12 years Flickr have a system where people can click on a link and get the HTML or BBCODE that properly attributes the image along with the link to the license and all the rest of the requirement

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread Andreas Kolbe
People usually encounter images in Wikipedia, and Wikipedia does not comply with the CC licence requirements either, the way downstream re-users are expected to comply with them. That's a problem. For example, the CC BY 3.0 licence requires re-users to name the image's author, and much else

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread Tim Landscheidt
James Forrester wrote: >> For the last 12 years Flickr have a system where people can click on a >> link and get the HTML or BBCODE that properly attributes the image along >> with the link to the license and all the rest of the requirements for >> the CC license. Why

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread James Forrester
On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 at 18:14 Lilburne wrote: > For the last 12 years Flickr have a system where people can click on a > link and get the HTML or BBCODE that properly attributes the image along > with the link to the license and all the rest of the requirements for >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread Lilburne
For the last 12 years Flickr have a system where people can click on a link and get the HTML or BBCODE that properly attributes the image along with the link to the license and all the rest of the requirements for the CC license. Why can't commons do the same? Otherwise its not hard to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread WereSpielChequers
:06:35 -0700 > From: Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons,prevent cease and desist > business > Message-ID: > <CAGToUqz+JUKQ_NDGpkbaRYjaKhMYZAW6_g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread Lodewijk
; --Steinsplitter > > > > > > [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meinungsbilder/ > > > keine_Bilder_in_Artikelnamensraum_von_direkt_abmahnenden_Fotografen > > > > > > > > > ________ > > > Von: Wikimedia-l <wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread Peter Southwood
To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business I think bad faith uploaders should be banned from uploading images to Commons. A blog which credited image taken from a Wikipedia article to Wikipedia is not as terrible as reputable newspaper which

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-06 Thread Olatunde Isaac
g> Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm not a German speaker, and I know context and nuance

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Gergő Tisza
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Todd Allen wrote: > I'm not a German speaker, and I know context and nuance can be lost in > machine translation. That being said, the one about someone who was > offering attribution and then got slapped with a bill for a simple > technical

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Gnangarra
m Auftrag > von > > rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22 > > An: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist > > business > > > > case 1: > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Lodewijk
oun...@lists.wikimedia.org> im Auftrag von > rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22 > An: Wikimedia Mailing List > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist > business > > case 1: > > to na

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Yann Forget
Hi, No, I didn't ask any help from the WMF. I don't know if it would have changed anything. Regards, Yann 2017-03-05 21:07 GMT+01:00 Rogol Domedonfors : > Yann > > Did you ask for, or receive, any help from the WMF? If so, was it > effective? If not, do you think you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Yann Did you ask for, or receive, any help from the WMF? If so, was it effective? If not, do you think you should have done? "Rogol" On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Yann Forget wrote: > Hi, > > I have a personal experience which is worth considering. > One of my picture

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Yann Forget
Hi, I have a personal experience which is worth considering. One of my picture uploaded on Commons under CC-BY-SA was used without attribution by a political party on their website and 2 of their leaflets (printed to more than 10,000 copies each). I contacted them, and they immediately

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread James Heilman
Am looking into options. Am going to be discussing things with a lawyer. Might be good to have a number of Wikipedians involved and will ask him. James On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > James, that's very helpful and I see at least one book on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Todd Allen
> > > > > > > Von: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> im Auftrag > von > > rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22 > > An: Wikimedia Mailing List > > B

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Gerard Meijssen
pert.thur...@gmail.com> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. März 2017 10:22 > An: Wikimedia Mailing List > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist > business > > case 1: > > to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for > "abmahnfal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki
[Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business case 1: to name a couple of other persons if you want to google for "abmahnfalle wikipedia" (cease and desist trap wikipedia): personally i favor a technical solution, as i find it pointless to put people on some pillory

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread rupert THURNER
case 1: daniel pugge has a single person enterprise, and a blog. out of wordpress he linked to the "juice plus" wikipedia article with marco almbauers picture on it. the wordpress preview showing the thumbnail of the linked article. marco then used the services of kurt kulac, former president of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-05 Thread Lodewijk
I've run into one or two people on OTRS that were reusing the materials in good faith, but that got a letter from such a photographer that wanted to see money (and that is just spillover from Germany to the Netherlands). Examples linked in the discussion include this warning and bill

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-04 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
James, that's very helpful and I see at least one book on that list that violates the licence, and hence breaches my copyright, in content that I wrote. What's the best way forward? Should the WMF represent the community by engaging directly with the company responsible? Or should it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-04 Thread James Heilman
Rupert here is a list of 213,000 books that are based on Wikipedia without proper attribution. https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks=en=%22CTI+Reviews%22 James On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:47 AM, David Gerard wrote: > This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-04 Thread David Gerard
This thread is notably long on hypothetical and meta-level discussions and very short on concrete examples of the supposedly problematic uploads under discussion. What are the generally accepted examples of what we're actually talking about here? - d.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-04 Thread Gnangarra
Licensing and the choices have been discussed on Commons https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment/AppropriatelyLicensed is well worth a read to understand the issue On 4 March 2017 at 17:44, rupert THURNER wrote: > that i find not acceptable to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-04 Thread rupert THURNER
that i find not acceptable to be honest, james. is there a list of such books which can be passed on? i contacted amazon asking them why they sell such books. their support is very welcoming - but its easier for them with links. On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 3:47 PM, James Heilman

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-03 Thread Lodewijk
Sure, and I suspect most reasonable people will agree with that. However, in the current legal construct, the author can decide whether to apply that principle or not. The question remains: if people apply principles that go way beyond that, what do we do? I think question that was put in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread James Heilman
Agree with Todd. People should be given a chance to either remove the image or comply with the license before legal action is taken. Peter does this work better https://books.google.ca/books?id=aQPMAwAAQBAJ=gbs_navlinks_s J On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Todd Allen

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread Todd Allen
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I certainly think we should treat differently people who don't even try to attribute the photographer or comply with the license (like the ones James mentioned), and those who are clearly making the effort but don't get it quite right. If someone is using

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread Lodewijk
Hi Todd, as I understand the discussion (but Rupert, please correct me if I'm wrong), the issue is primarily with bad faith uploaders (if that is indeed what they are). These people would upload material under a free license (presumably with as complicated as descriptions as possible) in the hope

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business We have a publisher who have created a few hundred thousand books based on Wikipedia text. Here is an example of one of many https://books.google.ca/books?id=aQPMAwAAQBAJ=PT100 They do not attribute Wikipedia and they do not release the content

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread James Heilman
We have a publisher who have created a few hundred thousand books based on Wikipedia text. Here is an example of one of many https://books.google.ca/books?id=aQPMAwAAQBAJ=PT100 They do not attribute Wikipedia and they do not release the content under a CC BY SA 3.0 license. They claim copyright

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread Todd Allen
The CC-BY-SA license asks for a basic courtesy: You give an acknowledgement to the person who graciously let you use their work totally free. It takes all of five seconds to add "Photo by ___" to a caption. It takes very little more to add a note that the photo is CC licensed. I can see

Re: [Wikimedia-l] a second commons, prevent cease and desist business

2017-03-02 Thread Gnangarra
noting:for give my missing any finer point my German isnt sufficient to read the discussion without the aid of google translate The question your asking is should the author of the image have the right to enforce the licensing of work they have uploaded. The position you take is that they dont