Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-09-03 Thread Isarra Yos

On 02/09/14 10:56, Ricordisamoa wrote:

Il 26/08/2014 12:18, Craig Franklin ha scritto:
The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological 
gizmos

and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative 
community
that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that they 
put up

with.
This makes my first RFBOT on the Italian Wikipedia 
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot/Autorizzazioni/Archivio/2013#SamoaBot 
come to my mind.
I was much less experienced than now, and ended up flooding Recent 
Changes. A bureaucrat threatened 
https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=56154161oldid=5615 to 
block me, and I even retired 
https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=56157910 for a day.

But I was already 'addicted' to Wikipedia and came back soon after.

Thanks to that episode, I gradually became a quite experienced 
operator. But... how many users would have given up in my place?


If someone has already gone to the trouble of making a bot, it seems 
unlikely that they would give up after a single incident. I've seen it 
happen after a protracted series of such incidents/screwups, but that's 
perhaps better for everyone involved anyway at that point.


-I

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-09-02 Thread Ricordisamoa

Il 26/08/2014 12:18, Craig Franklin ha scritto:

The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological gizmos
and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative community
that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that they put up
with.
This makes my first RFBOT on the Italian Wikipedia 
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot/Autorizzazioni/Archivio/2013#SamoaBot 
come to my mind.
I was much less experienced than now, and ended up flooding Recent 
Changes. A bureaucrat threatened 
https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=56154161oldid=5615 to 
block me, and I even retired 
https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=56157910 for a day.

But I was already 'addicted' to Wikipedia and came back soon after.

Thanks to that episode, I gradually became a quite experienced operator. 
But... how many users would have given up in my place?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-28 Thread David Goodman
Trying to radically change the NFCC guidelines, however desirable, is not
something which is likely to succeed.
Trying to somewhat simply image procedures might; I hope it could, because
I no longer even attempt to work with images. Though this is in large part
my own conceptually preference for text, I'm not the only one with that
problem.


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Richard Farmbrough 
rich...@farmbrough.co.uk wrote:

 I have coincidentally raised the question of fair-use images for living
 people at the Gender Gap Taskforce talk page. Perhaps this is something we
 shoudl take to the policy talk page?


 On 26 August 2014 14:24, Tim Davenport shoehu...@gmail.com wrote:

  David Goodman has this exactly right — new volunteers (as opposed to
 casual
  contributors) aren't made with templates of cookies or beer, they are
  generally made one at a time, with personal attention and personal
  assistance. Teahouse is one of the best ideas of the last five years,
 being
  a place where newcomers can go to ask specific questions. Mentoring
  programs is another very correct step.
 
  I'm currently working with a buddy who is getting into it. Wiki markup
 gunk
  isn't a big problem for him; he's about 40 years old and has been around
  html enough that it doesn't put him off. Footnoting he initially found
  difficult, but I taught him how to do it long form rather than using
 layout
  clogging templates, so that might have added an hour or two to the
 learning
  curve. Still: not that difficult and he already has the knack of it — and
  once you learn that, it's all very simple.
 
  I'm going to write him a couple thousand word email on linking today.
  That's all pretty self-evident.
 
  We had lunch yesterday and I explained to him the way that some topics
  which interest him (alternative medicine) are going to be battleground
  areas in which he really must be a master of NPOV; while other interests,
  relating to popular culture and sports, are less intense, with rawer and
  worse articles standing that need Tender Loving Care.
 
  He's enthusiastic about WP, and there is absolutely no substitute for
 that.
  That is the thing that is missing in college students doing class
 projects.
  My experience thus far with them is that they dive in at the 11th hour,
 do
  minimally decent work necessary to complete the assignment, ask zero
  questions, and then vanish.
 
  Serious, longterm editors are made one at a time, I think. It starts with
  personal attention. It requires someone to explain editing techniques and
  (just as importantly) WP culture and policies and tour-guiding them
 through
  all the policy pages and various backstage aspects of WP.
 
  It also involves something we have totally ignored so far: making sure
 they
  have something to do: assigning projects.You like this band? Dig up more
  sources, flesh it out. Oh, your grandpa was a pro athlete and already
 has a
  page? Dig up some news stories on his career... Write about his
  teammates... Hey, this article on the NFL championship game he played in
 is
  pretty terrible, why not see if you can make it better?
 
  Another unspoken problem is photo rights, which is (1) confusing to start
  with; (2) subject to one of the worst decisions ever, the choice to use
  free files rather than to make use of American fair use legal doctrine;
 (3)
  populated by anal retentive volunteers who delete first and ask questions
  never, engage only with templates, work too fast, and who in many cases I
  suspect take malicious joy in their work. I know that that was the aspect
  of WP that alienated me the worst as a newcomer. It still does.
 
  So, WMF sorts: remember that this is a slow process and that there are no
  magical software solutions. Creating new Very Active Editors takes
  motivated candidates and volunteers willing to take newcomers under their
  wings.
 
  Tim Davenport
  Corvallis, OR
  Carrite on WP /// Randy from Boise on WPO
 
 
  DAVID GOOMAN WROTE:
  Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method
  of personally communicating with new editors who seem promising
  and encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in
  this is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove
  messages, and certainly not with anything that looks like a template.
  Template welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or
  web personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you
 actually
  read and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to
  write something specific.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread Liam Wyatt
On 26 August 2014 02:09, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method of
 personally communicating with new editors who seem promising and
 encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in this
 is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove messages ,
 and certainly not with anything that looks like a template. Template
 welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or web
 personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually read
 and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to write
 something specific.


I believe there is a software-facilitated way of doing this. You are quite
right that the most effective way of retaining new editors who have good
potential is for them to have some personalised contact and a sense of
community, but you are right that it is time-consuming and it is also
difficult to identify people who are a) new, b) have potential and c) are
people that you personally are interested in helping.

IMO the most likely way to help identify those people is to leverage the
power of the WikiProjects (e.g. Birds, Military History, France,
Mathematics...) to bring new users closer to communities-of-interest
quickly. Erik Moller has spoken about this at Wikimania both this year and
also a couple of years ago and I completely agree with him.

Perhaps when a new user registers they can be asked to name a few things
they're interested in (perhaps prompted from a list). This automagically
connects them to the relevant Wikiproject and somehow tells the members of
that wikiproject that a new user has just registered and expressed an
interest in their topic. Proactive WikiProjects might set up some form of
mentoring scheme, or welcoming committee, or 'tasks that newbies can do'
list. It would be up to the WikiProject to work out the best ways to
coordinate their work with newbies. Rather like the beginning of the
academic year at a university - all the student clubs set up tables to
compete to recruit new members :-)

Yes - this requires software development and therefore needs to be put on a
roadmap, budgeted for etc. etc. But, if we're talking about
editor-retention and *personalised support, *I think it's high time that
the WikiProjects receive some developer attention - in recognition of the
fantastic work that they do in both coordinating the creation of good
quality content and also in building a sense of community among editors
(old and new).

-Liam / Wittylama
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread Jane Darnell
I have seen good results with the thank feature. It is easy to use and seems 
appreciated. When thanked users write to me in response, I have noticed that a 
specific and neutral I read your edits about xyz and appreciate them seems to 
be more likely to encourage more edits about xyz rather than a suggestion to do 
something else about xyz (such as joining a wiki project)

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 26, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 26 August 2014 02:09, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method of
 personally communicating with new editors who seem promising and
 encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in this
 is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove messages ,
 and certainly not with anything that looks like a template. Template
 welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or web
 personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually read
 and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to write
 something specific.
 
 
 I believe there is a software-facilitated way of doing this. You are quite
 right that the most effective way of retaining new editors who have good
 potential is for them to have some personalised contact and a sense of
 community, but you are right that it is time-consuming and it is also
 difficult to identify people who are a) new, b) have potential and c) are
 people that you personally are interested in helping.
 
 IMO the most likely way to help identify those people is to leverage the
 power of the WikiProjects (e.g. Birds, Military History, France,
 Mathematics...) to bring new users closer to communities-of-interest
 quickly. Erik Moller has spoken about this at Wikimania both this year and
 also a couple of years ago and I completely agree with him.
 
 Perhaps when a new user registers they can be asked to name a few things
 they're interested in (perhaps prompted from a list). This automagically
 connects them to the relevant Wikiproject and somehow tells the members of
 that wikiproject that a new user has just registered and expressed an
 interest in their topic. Proactive WikiProjects might set up some form of
 mentoring scheme, or welcoming committee, or 'tasks that newbies can do'
 list. It would be up to the WikiProject to work out the best ways to
 coordinate their work with newbies. Rather like the beginning of the
 academic year at a university - all the student clubs set up tables to
 compete to recruit new members :-)
 
 Yes - this requires software development and therefore needs to be put on a
 roadmap, budgeted for etc. etc. But, if we're talking about
 editor-retention and *personalised support, *I think it's high time that
 the WikiProjects receive some developer attention - in recognition of the
 fantastic work that they do in both coordinating the creation of good
 quality content and also in building a sense of community among editors
 (old and new).
 
 -Liam / Wittylama
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread Craig Franklin
I agree with this wholeheartedly.  When I think back to when I was new on
Wikipedia, pretty early on I got an honest-to-god personal message from
someone to thank me for correcting a typo (
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lankiveildiff=5647166oldid=5629943
).
 It made me feel like this was a community of nice people that I wanted to
collaborate on things with, and was probably instrumental in me sticking
around.

The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological gizmos
and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative community
that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that they put up
with.  Template welcomes and messages that have all the warmth of a form
letter enclosed in a utility bill won't make a lasting improvement in the
long run.  The intention behind things like the thank button are great,
but they should be seen as at most an enabler, rather than as the actual
solution to our problems.

Cheers,
Craig





On 26 August 2014 10:09, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method of
 personally communicating with new editors who seem promising and
 encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in this
 is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove messages ,
 and certainly not with anything that looks like a template. Template
 welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or web
 personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually read
 and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to write
 something specific.


 On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Wikimedia ch is doing a big investment in supporting communities.
 
  There are three community liaisons (a third hired recently) to support
 the
  three national languages which are also within the biggest linguistic
  communities.
 
  Anyway there is not a unique solution to be adapted easily in user
  retention and recruiting because the world is varioius as it is the life.
 
  Regards
  Il 24/ago/2014 03:56 James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com ha scritto:
 
   Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
   initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
   aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
   editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s
  
   I am not worried about pageviews at all, given that the trend is as
   constant as it has ever been when mobile users are added in to the
   total. Sadly, the greater number of mobile users appears to be harming
   active editor numbers beyond their already dismal trend, so it would
   be nice to have an idea of exactly how much effort the Foundation is
   applying to its only strategic goal which it is not achieved, and has
   not ever achieved. I am amazed that so much more effort continues to
   be applied to the other goals, all of which have always been met
   through to the present. What does this state of affairs say about the
   Foundation leadership's ability to prioritize?
  
   Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
   interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
   inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
   provide more time, economic power, or other means to enable them to
   edit more?
  
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 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread David Gerard
This is why the thanks mechanism needs to work for IP edits too.

(I submit that the hazard that we might accidentally be nice to
someone we didn't mean to is not a sufficient threat to block this.)

On 26 August 2014 11:18, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote:
 I agree with this wholeheartedly.  When I think back to when I was new on
 Wikipedia, pretty early on I got an honest-to-god personal message from
 someone to thank me for correcting a typo (
 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lankiveildiff=5647166oldid=5629943
 ).
  It made me feel like this was a community of nice people that I wanted to
 collaborate on things with, and was probably instrumental in me sticking
 around.

 The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological gizmos
 and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
 solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative community
 that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that they put up
 with.  Template welcomes and messages that have all the warmth of a form
 letter enclosed in a utility bill won't make a lasting improvement in the
 long run.  The intention behind things like the thank button are great,
 but they should be seen as at most an enabler, rather than as the actual
 solution to our problems.

 Cheers,
 Craig





 On 26 August 2014 10:09, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method of
 personally communicating with new editors who seem promising and
 encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in this
 is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove messages ,
 and certainly not with anything that looks like a template. Template
 welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or web
 personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually read
 and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to write
 something specific.


 On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Wikimedia ch is doing a big investment in supporting communities.
 
  There are three community liaisons (a third hired recently) to support
 the
  three national languages which are also within the biggest linguistic
  communities.
 
  Anyway there is not a unique solution to be adapted easily in user
  retention and recruiting because the world is varioius as it is the life.
 
  Regards
  Il 24/ago/2014 03:56 James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com ha scritto:
 
   Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
   initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
   aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
   editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s
  
   I am not worried about pageviews at all, given that the trend is as
   constant as it has ever been when mobile users are added in to the
   total. Sadly, the greater number of mobile users appears to be harming
   active editor numbers beyond their already dismal trend, so it would
   be nice to have an idea of exactly how much effort the Foundation is
   applying to its only strategic goal which it is not achieved, and has
   not ever achieved. I am amazed that so much more effort continues to
   be applied to the other goals, all of which have always been met
   through to the present. What does this state of affairs say about the
   Foundation leadership's ability to prioritize?
  
   Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
   interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
   inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
   provide more time, economic power, or other means to enable them to
   edit more?
  
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 --
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 DGG at the enWP
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread Anders Wennersten

I agree with Craig

The Thank function is not only good to give to new editors but also as a 
measurement to what action is appreciated by new beginners


I frequently get thanks from new one after I have complemented, 
wikiadjusted  their articles (HELP is appreciated)


I never get a Thanks for putting up templates, neither on articles or an 
editors discussions page


To my surprise, I do getTthanks though, when I am tougher and removes an 
article and put the text on a  subpage to the editor, followed by a 
message often almost harsh (fluffy text, unecyclopedic, no 
sources, unclear what is meant etc) (Any type of personal feedback 
relevant to the person action IS appreciated)


My three key actions to new editors are
HELP, fix their articles directly, wikify, put on categories, infoboxes 
find sources and images and do this within an hour of its creation and 
without putting on templates
SHOW APPRECIATION when a number of good action is seen, put on a 
personal message of appreciation on the editors talkpage praising 
his/her knowledge and competence
INVOLVE after a time a month or two of repeated good actions, get the 
person involved by asking issues in his/her expert ares, invite to a IRL 
meting with other experts in his/her area of interest


So absolutely The editor retention problem will not be solved with 
technological gizmos and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed 
from above.  it is with personal messages and contacts and appriecation 
of competence


Anders



Craig Franklin skrev 2014-08-26 12:18:

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  When I think back to when I was new on
Wikipedia, pretty early on I got an honest-to-god personal message from
someone to thank me for correcting a typo (
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lankiveildiff=5647166oldid=5629943
).
  It made me feel like this was a community of nice people that I wanted to
collaborate on things with, and was probably instrumental in me sticking
around.

The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological gizmos
and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative community
that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that they put up
with.  Template welcomes and messages that have all the warmth of a form
letter enclosed in a utility bill won't make a lasting improvement in the
long run.  The intention behind things like the thank button are great,
but they should be seen as at most an enabler, rather than as the actual
solution to our problems.

Cheers,
Craig





On 26 August 2014 10:09, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote:


Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method of
personally communicating with new editors who seem promising and
encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in this
is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove messages ,
and certainly not with anything that looks like a template. Template
welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or web
personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually read
and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to write
something specific.


On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
wrote:


Wikimedia ch is doing a big investment in supporting communities.

There are three community liaisons (a third hired recently) to support

the

three national languages which are also within the biggest linguistic
communities.

Anyway there is not a unique solution to be adapted easily in user
retention and recruiting because the world is varioius as it is the life.

Regards
Il 24/ago/2014 03:56 James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com ha scritto:


Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s

I am not worried about pageviews at all, given that the trend is as
constant as it has ever been when mobile users are added in to the
total. Sadly, the greater number of mobile users appears to be harming
active editor numbers beyond their already dismal trend, so it would
be nice to have an idea of exactly how much effort the Foundation is
applying to its only strategic goal which it is not achieved, and has
not ever achieved. I am amazed that so much more effort continues to
be applied to the other goals, all of which have always been met
through to the present. What does this state of affairs say about the
Foundation leadership's ability to prioritize?

Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
provide more time, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The question here is about editor retention.

Honestly we can say thank you or we can use a lot of emoticons but the
problem is always the same.

At the first error the thank you and the pink sweet world disappears.

There is always someone in the other side who is so gentle like the
elephants in the a store of crystal things.

The biggest problem in my opinion is to continue selecting administrators
considering only their technical point of view and never their community
management capacities.

Every time I meet someone who left the Wikimedia projects the problem is
the same: a conflict and frequently some block which seems to be unclear
and incorrect.

Please introduce something that is able to associate the beautiful words to
the beautiful actions.

HELP
APPRECIATE
INVOLVE

Are really good points and applied not only to the new editors but to all
editors.



On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Anders Wennersten 
m...@anderswennersten.se wrote:

 I agree with Craig

 The Thank function is not only good to give to new editors but also as a
 measurement to what action is appreciated by new beginners

 I frequently get thanks from new one after I have complemented,
 wikiadjusted  their articles (HELP is appreciated)

 I never get a Thanks for putting up templates, neither on articles or an
 editors discussions page

 To my surprise, I do getTthanks though, when I am tougher and removes an
 article and put the text on a  subpage to the editor, followed by a message
 often almost harsh (fluffy text, unecyclopedic, no sources, unclear
 what is meant etc) (Any type of personal feedback relevant to the person
 action IS appreciated)

 My three key actions to new editors are
 HELP, fix their articles directly, wikify, put on categories, infoboxes
 find sources and images and do this within an hour of its creation and
 without putting on templates
 SHOW APPRECIATION when a number of good action is seen, put on a personal
 message of appreciation on the editors talkpage praising his/her knowledge
 and competence
 INVOLVE after a time a month or two of repeated good actions, get the
 person involved by asking issues in his/her expert ares, invite to a IRL
 meting with other experts in his/her area of interest

 So absolutely The editor retention problem will not be solved with
 technological gizmos and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from
 above.  it is with personal messages and contacts and appriecation of
 competence

 Anders



 Craig Franklin skrev 2014-08-26 12:18:

  I agree with this wholeheartedly.  When I think back to when I was new on
 Wikipedia, pretty early on I got an honest-to-god personal message from
 someone to thank me for correcting a typo (
 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:
 Lankiveildiff=5647166oldid=5629943
 ).
   It made me feel like this was a community of nice people that I wanted
 to
 collaborate on things with, and was probably instrumental in me sticking
 around.

 The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological gizmos
 and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
 solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative community
 that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that they put
 up
 with.  Template welcomes and messages that have all the warmth of a form
 letter enclosed in a utility bill won't make a lasting improvement in the
 long run.  The intention behind things like the thank button are great,
 but they should be seen as at most an enabler, rather than as the actual
 solution to our problems.

 Cheers,
 Craig





 On 26 August 2014 10:09, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote:

  Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method of
 personally communicating with new editors who seem promising and
 encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in this
 is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove messages ,
 and certainly not with anything that looks like a template. Template
 welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or web
 personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually
 read
 and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to write
 something specific.


 On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Wikimedia ch is doing a big investment in supporting communities.

 There are three community liaisons (a third hired recently) to support

 the

 three national languages which are also within the biggest linguistic
 communities.

 Anyway there is not a unique solution to be adapted easily in user
 retention and recruiting because the world is varioius as it is the
 life.

 Regards
 Il 24/ago/2014 03:56 James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com ha scritto:

  Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
 initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
 aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread David Goodman
I too have seen some good results with the thank feature ( There are even
better results when I write something specific.) I agree with Anders that
the thank message is especially useful when sent to me, indicating that
something I did was understood--in my case, usually that if I accepted or
rescued an article the person is still around. Ideally I should follow it
up with a real message. I But if it's in response to something like
deletion, I am always unsure if it's genuine thanks, or meant in the
opposite sense. One of the advantage in using real language is greater
clarity.

I still remember exactly some encouraging things said to me by experienced
users  in my first few months when I first came here 8 years ago; mot were
not separate messages, but in the course of discussion. When difficulties
arise, I recall them to encourage myself. I even read over my RfA from time
to time.

 I completely agree with Liam that the way forward in many areas is with
the Wikiprojects. They need further development, but I'm not sure how much
of this requires additional software, rather than additional  active
participation. We should learn from the most successful, such as military
history. (or chemistry or medicine) They're a self-organizing feature, with
the advantage of not requiring funding or help from the foundation. Some
have  however on enWP become somewhat of a closed circle, immune to
community views to the point of trying to maintain guidelines the community
does not support .he remedy for this as for essentially everything else is
increased participation.


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:

 The question here is about editor retention.

 Honestly we can say thank you or we can use a lot of emoticons but the
 problem is always the same.

 At the first error the thank you and the pink sweet world disappears.

 There is always someone in the other side who is so gentle like the
 elephants in the a store of crystal things.

 The biggest problem in my opinion is to continue selecting administrators
 considering only their technical point of view and never their community
 management capacities.

 Every time I meet someone who left the Wikimedia projects the problem is
 the same: a conflict and frequently some block which seems to be unclear
 and incorrect.

 Please introduce something that is able to associate the beautiful words to
 the beautiful actions.

 HELP
 APPRECIATE
 INVOLVE

 Are really good points and applied not only to the new editors but to all
 editors.



 On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Anders Wennersten 
 m...@anderswennersten.se wrote:

  I agree with Craig
 
  The Thank function is not only good to give to new editors but also as a
  measurement to what action is appreciated by new beginners
 
  I frequently get thanks from new one after I have complemented,
  wikiadjusted  their articles (HELP is appreciated)
 
  I never get a Thanks for putting up templates, neither on articles or an
  editors discussions page
 
  To my surprise, I do getTthanks though, when I am tougher and removes an
  article and put the text on a  subpage to the editor, followed by a
 message
  often almost harsh (fluffy text, unecyclopedic, no sources,
 unclear
  what is meant etc) (Any type of personal feedback relevant to the person
  action IS appreciated)
 
  My three key actions to new editors are
  HELP, fix their articles directly, wikify, put on categories, infoboxes
  find sources and images and do this within an hour of its creation and
  without putting on templates
  SHOW APPRECIATION when a number of good action is seen, put on a personal
  message of appreciation on the editors talkpage praising his/her
 knowledge
  and competence
  INVOLVE after a time a month or two of repeated good actions, get the
  person involved by asking issues in his/her expert ares, invite to a IRL
  meting with other experts in his/her area of interest
 
  So absolutely The editor retention problem will not be solved with
  technological gizmos and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed
 from
  above.  it is with personal messages and contacts and appriecation of
  competence
 
  Anders
 
 
 
  Craig Franklin skrev 2014-08-26 12:18:
 
   I agree with this wholeheartedly.  When I think back to when I was new
 on
  Wikipedia, pretty early on I got an honest-to-god personal message from
  someone to thank me for correcting a typo (
  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:
  Lankiveildiff=5647166oldid=5629943
  ).
It made me feel like this was a community of nice people that I wanted
  to
  collaborate on things with, and was probably instrumental in me sticking
  around.
 
  The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological
 gizmos
  and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above.  It will be
  solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative
 community
  that people actually want to be a part of, rather than one that 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-26 Thread Richard Farmbrough
I have coincidentally raised the question of fair-use images for living
people at the Gender Gap Taskforce talk page. Perhaps this is something we
shoudl take to the policy talk page?


On 26 August 2014 14:24, Tim Davenport shoehu...@gmail.com wrote:

 David Goodman has this exactly right — new volunteers (as opposed to casual
 contributors) aren't made with templates of cookies or beer, they are
 generally made one at a time, with personal attention and personal
 assistance. Teahouse is one of the best ideas of the last five years, being
 a place where newcomers can go to ask specific questions. Mentoring
 programs is another very correct step.

 I'm currently working with a buddy who is getting into it. Wiki markup gunk
 isn't a big problem for him; he's about 40 years old and has been around
 html enough that it doesn't put him off. Footnoting he initially found
 difficult, but I taught him how to do it long form rather than using layout
 clogging templates, so that might have added an hour or two to the learning
 curve. Still: not that difficult and he already has the knack of it — and
 once you learn that, it's all very simple.

 I'm going to write him a couple thousand word email on linking today.
 That's all pretty self-evident.

 We had lunch yesterday and I explained to him the way that some topics
 which interest him (alternative medicine) are going to be battleground
 areas in which he really must be a master of NPOV; while other interests,
 relating to popular culture and sports, are less intense, with rawer and
 worse articles standing that need Tender Loving Care.

 He's enthusiastic about WP, and there is absolutely no substitute for that.
 That is the thing that is missing in college students doing class projects.
 My experience thus far with them is that they dive in at the 11th hour, do
 minimally decent work necessary to complete the assignment, ask zero
 questions, and then vanish.

 Serious, longterm editors are made one at a time, I think. It starts with
 personal attention. It requires someone to explain editing techniques and
 (just as importantly) WP culture and policies and tour-guiding them through
 all the policy pages and various backstage aspects of WP.

 It also involves something we have totally ignored so far: making sure they
 have something to do: assigning projects.You like this band? Dig up more
 sources, flesh it out. Oh, your grandpa was a pro athlete and already has a
 page? Dig up some news stories on his career... Write about his
 teammates... Hey, this article on the NFL championship game he played in is
 pretty terrible, why not see if you can make it better?

 Another unspoken problem is photo rights, which is (1) confusing to start
 with; (2) subject to one of the worst decisions ever, the choice to use
 free files rather than to make use of American fair use legal doctrine; (3)
 populated by anal retentive volunteers who delete first and ask questions
 never, engage only with templates, work too fast, and who in many cases I
 suspect take malicious joy in their work. I know that that was the aspect
 of WP that alienated me the worst as a newcomer. It still does.

 So, WMF sorts: remember that this is a slow process and that there are no
 magical software solutions. Creating new Very Active Editors takes
 motivated candidates and volunteers willing to take newcomers under their
 wings.

 Tim Davenport
 Corvallis, OR
 Carrite on WP /// Randy from Boise on WPO


 DAVID GOOMAN WROTE:
 Perhaps the best way of doing this is the admittedly laborious method
 of personally communicating with new editors who seem promising
 and encouraging them and offering to help them continue. The key word in
 this is personally. It cannot be effectively done with  wikilove
 messages, and certainly not with anything that looks like a template.
 Template welcomes are essentially in the same class as mail or
 web personalizedadvertisements.  What works is to show that you actually
 read and appreciated what they are doing, to the extent you wanted to
 write something specific.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-25 Thread Tanweer Morshed
Thanks James for addressing such a crucial issue. It is a vital matter but
being discussed far less than other topics, in offline or offline programs,
activities. Among measures fore retaining editors, there were some banners
that appeared on top of articles viewed by new editors or readers. I've
heard that this worked somewhat but didn't continue. In Bangladesh, we're
(Wikipedians/Wikimedians) particularly discussing and talking on how to how
to retain more editors. Many people are becoming new editors but most of
them leave after some days and become inactive. The Task recommendations
seems quite interesting, but I was unaware of it. What about its
implementation? was it ever tested on any Wikipedia and if so, how
successful was it?


On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com
wrote:

 On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 6:55 PM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:

  Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
  initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
  aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
  editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s
 

 Task recommendations is one nascent initiative that my team is working
 on.[1] We're still in the very early prototyping and testing stages. (BTW,
 the whole video segment starts two minutes earlier at about the 58:00
 mark.)

 Task recommendations is far from the only thing we're doing to attract and
 retain active editors. Pretty much the entirety of the features development
 roadmap for desktop and mobile is focused on this problem. VisualEditor,
 Flow, mobile web and apps work, and more all address this problem from
 different angles. You can keep up with what the Foundation is doing by
 checking out the monthly engineering reports.[2]


  Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
  interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
  inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
  provide more time, economic power, or other means to enable them to
  edit more?
 

 We practically can't and don't take on initiatives that directly try to
 provide more free time or money to editors. We can, however, help people do
 more with the free time they have, and ask new people to become
 contributors. Both of those are things we're tackling. A central goal of
 improving the usability of the core editing experience across devices is to
 save people time and energy. My team's also trying other things to attract
 new community members, such as actually inviting people to sign up.[3]

 1. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Task_recommendations
 2. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Report/latest
 3.

 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Anonymous_editor_acquisition#Invite_users_to_sign_up
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Tanweer Morshed
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-25 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia ch is doing a big investment in supporting communities.

There are three community liaisons (a third hired recently) to support the
three national languages which are also within the biggest linguistic
communities.

Anyway there is not a unique solution to be adapted easily in user
retention and recruiting because the world is varioius as it is the life.

Regards
Il 24/ago/2014 03:56 James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
 initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
 aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
 editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s

 I am not worried about pageviews at all, given that the trend is as
 constant as it has ever been when mobile users are added in to the
 total. Sadly, the greater number of mobile users appears to be harming
 active editor numbers beyond their already dismal trend, so it would
 be nice to have an idea of exactly how much effort the Foundation is
 applying to its only strategic goal which it is not achieved, and has
 not ever achieved. I am amazed that so much more effort continues to
 be applied to the other goals, all of which have always been met
 through to the present. What does this state of affairs say about the
 Foundation leadership's ability to prioritize?

 Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
 interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
 inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
 provide more time, economic power, or other means to enable them to
 edit more?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi.
I had a look at the youtube video. Really important in this context is the
presentation by Dario. In it he shows how editing is taking of from mobile
users using tablets. This is a recent shift but the implication as I see it
that working on better tooling for mobile / tablet editors will get us more
results.

If anything, it shows that the work done to get people to edit from mobiles
take its time to have an effect.
Thanks,
  GerardM


On 24 August 2014 03:55, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
 initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
 aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
 editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s

 I am not worried about pageviews at all, given that the trend is as
 constant as it has ever been when mobile users are added in to the
 total. Sadly, the greater number of mobile users appears to be harming
 active editor numbers beyond their already dismal trend, so it would
 be nice to have an idea of exactly how much effort the Foundation is
 applying to its only strategic goal which it is not achieved, and has
 not ever achieved. I am amazed that so much more effort continues to
 be applied to the other goals, all of which have always been met
 through to the present. What does this state of affairs say about the
 Foundation leadership's ability to prioritize?

 Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
 interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
 inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
 provide more time, economic power, or other means to enable them to
 edit more?

 ___
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 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] editor retention initiatives

2014-08-24 Thread Steven Walling
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 6:55 PM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there a list somewhere of all currently active Foundation
 initiatives for attracting and retaining active editors?  I am only
 aware of the one project, Task Recommendations, to try to encourage
 editors who have made a few edits to make more, described starting at
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbZ1uWoKEgt=60m20s


Task recommendations is one nascent initiative that my team is working
on.[1] We're still in the very early prototyping and testing stages. (BTW,
the whole video segment starts two minutes earlier at about the 58:00
mark.)

Task recommendations is far from the only thing we're doing to attract and
retain active editors. Pretty much the entirety of the features development
roadmap for desktop and mobile is focused on this problem. VisualEditor,
Flow, mobile web and apps work, and more all address this problem from
different angles. You can keep up with what the Foundation is doing by
checking out the monthly engineering reports.[2]


 Is there any evidence at all that anyone in the Foundation is
 interested in any kind of change which would make non-editors more
 inclined to edit, or empower editors with social factors which might
 provide more time, economic power, or other means to enable them to
 edit more?


We practically can't and don't take on initiatives that directly try to
provide more free time or money to editors. We can, however, help people do
more with the free time they have, and ask new people to become
contributors. Both of those are things we're tackling. A central goal of
improving the usability of the core editing experience across devices is to
save people time and energy. My team's also trying other things to attract
new community members, such as actually inviting people to sign up.[3]

1. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Task_recommendations
2. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Report/latest
3.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Anonymous_editor_acquisition#Invite_users_to_sign_up
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