Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-25 Thread Laura Hale


  On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER 
 rupert.thur...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
   1. it should knows groups
   2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their
 profile
   3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
   4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
   interest
   5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
  history
   views
   6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
   history views
   7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
   page,
  or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
  
 


I think Rupert's proposal does not go far enough in terms of addressing the
potential conflict of interests by contributors because it focuses
exclusively on paid edits while failing to address other conflict of
interests problems that lead to neutrality issues.  While anyone should be
free to edit, the edit box should contain a dynamic box at the bottom that
includes a potential list of conflicts that create bias problems based on
the conflict.  The user, before submitting their edit, should click each
box verifying what their (potential) advocacy problems are so that their
edits may be vetted.  This includes gender, religion, nationality,
ethnicity, political alignment, Political party membership, academic
discipline, level of education, yearly earnings, city you live in, and
employer.

So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked
if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing
political party member, a left wing political party member, male,
Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a
non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc.  This would increase Wikipedia's
transparency and accountability of editors for their actions.  It would
actively discourage advocacy of all types, including the paid type.

Sincerely,
Laura Hale

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-25 Thread Yann Forget
2014-02-25 21:20 GMT+05:30 Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com:

 So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked
 if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing
 political party member, a left wing political party member, male,
 Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a
 non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc.


Hopefully, this is a (bad) joke.


 (...)
 Sincerely,
 Laura Hale

 Regards,
Yann

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-25 Thread MZMcBride
Laura Hale wrote:
I think Rupert's proposal does not go far enough in terms of addressing
the potential conflict of interests by contributors because it focuses
exclusively on paid edits while failing to address other conflict of
interests problems that lead to neutrality issues.  While anyone should be
free to edit, the edit box should contain a dynamic box at the bottom that
includes a potential list of conflicts that create bias problems based on
the conflict.  The user, before submitting their edit, should click each
box verifying what their (potential) advocacy problems are so that their
edits may be vetted.  This includes gender, religion, nationality,
ethnicity, political alignment, Political party membership, academic
discipline, level of education, yearly earnings, city you live in, and
employer.

So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be
asked if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing
political party member, a left wing political party member, male,
Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a
non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc.  This would increase Wikipedia's
transparency and accountability of editors for their actions.  It would
actively discourage advocacy of all types, including the paid type.

Hmmm, I'm running into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law with
this post. I honestly can't tell if you're being serious here.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-23 Thread Jasper Deng
I think this doesn't really address the core issues that surround this
hotly debated topic of paid editing. No further comment.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hoi,
 Why ?
 Thanks.
  GerardM


 On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida gryll...@fastmail.fm wrote:

  I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively.
  I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate
  queue.
 
  On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
   hi,
  
   could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
   1. it should knows groups
   2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their
 profile
   3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
   4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
  interest
   5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
  history
   views
   6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
   history views
   7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
  page,
  or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
  
   reason:
   currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it
 is
   quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
  prominent
   examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users
 tend
   to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the
  main
   reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
   * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal
 archive
   for other users
   * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
  
   this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
  german
   community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
   system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still
 be
   applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
   continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts.
  
   what you think?
  
   best regards,
   rupert
   ---
   swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-23 Thread John Vandenberg
Hi rupert,

I think this requester feature has merit, as it provides a tool for
communities to use for this purpose (COI) and others.

One possible implementation is the tag system already part of the Abuse
Filter extension. Bug 18670 requests the tag system be more flexible,
allowing false positives to be addessed, and would also allow self-tagging
of edits.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18670
On Feb 22, 2014 10:26 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi,

 could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
 1. it should knows groups
 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
 interest
 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
 views
 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
 history views
 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
 page,
or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.

 reason:
 currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
 quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
 examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
 to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main
 reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
 * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
 for other users
 * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee

 this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
 community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
 system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
 applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
 continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts.

 what you think?

 best regards,
 rupert
 ---
 swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-23 Thread Emmanuel Engelhart
I don't know if this is a broadly shared opinion, but like Rupert, I
think this is too difficult to step-in as an organisation. This is in
particular true if you want to do it on an international/multi-language
level.

GLAMs, which are the organisations we want to treasure, are impacted
among others. Read this report from Switzerland for example:
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/January_2014/Contents/Switzerland_report

This is of course the duty of each language community to decide how to
deal with this thematic. However, Mediawiki can play a role by helping
to achieve as much as possible transparency. That the reason why I think
these concrete propositions are discussion worth.

I strongly believe that if the tool allows us to better take in
consideration and track Corporate personhood contributions then the
whole debate will be far less passionate, easier to conduct, and at the
end better solutions will emerge.

Emmanuel

Le 22/02/2014 16:25, rupert THURNER a écrit :
 could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
 1. it should knows groups
 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest
 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
 views
 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
 history views
 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page,
or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
 
 reason:
 currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
 quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
 examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
 to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main
 reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
 * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
 for other users
 * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
 
 this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
 community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
 system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
 applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
 continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts.
 
 what you think?




-- 
Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline  more
* Web: http://www.kiwix.org
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-23 Thread Gryllida
No, I mean, that's what article talk page is for.

It's close to useless to get a contributor admit COI by ticking a box. 
1) He won't do it.
2) It's much better to add a box to ?action=edit, when a page is created, 
asking the contributor to type something in manually (what motivated you to 
create article? please disclose conflict of interest and affiliations to help 
us help you.).

Stop adding complexity, bureaucracy and terms. The learning curve is full 
enough of paperwork, terms, badges, and reviewing as is.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 16:47, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
 Hoi,
 Why ?
 Thanks.
  GerardM
 
 
 On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida gryll...@fastmail.fm wrote:
 
  I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively.
  I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate
  queue.
 
  On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
   hi,
  
   could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
   1. it should knows groups
   2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
   3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
   4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
  interest
   5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
  history
   views
   6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
   history views
   7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
  page,
  or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
  
   reason:
   currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
   quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
  prominent
   examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
   to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the
  main
   reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
   * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
   for other users
   * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
  
   this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
  german
   community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
   system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
   applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
   continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts.
  
   what you think?
  
   best regards,
   rupert
   ---
   swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-23 Thread Steven Walling
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote:

 could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
 1. it should knows groups
 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
 interest
 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
 views
 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
 history views
 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
 page,
or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.


[With my WMF product manager hat on...]

This a big request with many moving parts. We should probably try to
separate them out and simplify where we can. I'd recommend filing bugs for
structured information about groups, profiles, the ability to join/leave
groups, activity feeds per group, and more. This is something that is of
general interest, and is not specific to COI-related issues at all.

Gryllida's comment was a bit abrasive but is a correct understanding of the
challenge here I think, in terms of creating richer kinds of information
about types of edits/editors without making a user do unnecessary extra
work. Imagine if there is essentially as many group types as there are
categories, for instance. It probably makes more sense to have collections
of pages associated with a group, so that we can generate a feed of group
activity not by making the user select a group when saving, but
automatically. So for example: I'm in Group:Beer and I edit the article
on Pilsner, so my edits show in a feed of edits by Group:Beer members to
articles in that subject.

In the long run, we should start creating structured information about
topical groups, and let people access it both through a group page as well
as some kind of editor profile. However, it's not going to happen in the
next calendar year, so I'm not sure it's a good interim solution to the
problem of how to make COI disclosures easier. AbuseFilter also is honestly
probably not the right solution, even if self-tagging existed.

Steven
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-23 Thread rupert THURNER
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
  1. it should knows groups
  2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
  3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
  4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
  interest
  5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
 history
  views
  6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
  history views
  7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
  page,
 or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
 

 [With my WMF product manager hat on...]

 the request is about _exactly this_, for wikipedia edits. you mark your
contribution _when you write it_. you can do this by not changing your user
account, using your gmail address as sender. this use case is quite common,
and it is optional.

rupert.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-22 Thread Gryllida
I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively. I 
feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate queue.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
 hi,
 
 could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
 1. it should knows groups
 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest
 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
 views
 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
 history views
 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page,
or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
 
 reason:
 currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
 quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
 examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
 to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main
 reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
 * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
 for other users
 * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
 
 this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
 community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
 system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
 applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
 continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts.
 
 what you think?
 
 best regards,
 rupert
 ---
 swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit

2014-02-22 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
Why ?
Thanks.
 GerardM


On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida gryll...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively.
 I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate
 queue.

 On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
  hi,
 
  could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
  1. it should knows groups
  2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
  3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving
  4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of
 interest
  5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
 history
  views
  6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
  history views
  7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
 page,
 or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
 
  reason:
  currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
  quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
 prominent
  examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
  to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the
 main
  reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
  * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
  for other users
  * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
 
  this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
 german
  community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
  system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
  applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
  continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts.
 
  what you think?
 
  best regards,
  rupert
  ---
  swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
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