Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:33:31 + From: Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched Message-ID: CAF0qKV0enH4_EwrnLYoPUOGwiDrjRHBfBuLQY1Pv2JiDfCD= m...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 John, and others. I have finally figured out a big problem with my plan. The articles for deletion are not tagged peoperly at all. There are authors who know for a fact that articles are mistagged and have no proper copyvio tagging, and now they are accusing me of hosting copyvio articles. I see this a problem in the wikipedia deletion system, if an editor knows for a fact that an articles is in violation of copyright then they should tag it as Such. I have written scripts to strip out artilces that are properly tagged. Lets sit down and work out a plan for a proper system of sorting out what is not notable, and waht is copyrightvio. I want to host the non notable artilces. My argument is that giving non-notable bands and actors etc an outlet to be hosted will reduce repeated reposting of articles. I have been sorting through all these articles, contacting people and many of them are thankful, I would be suprized if any of them would repost the deleted article, like the Jack Psyco from .au, someone reposted his article many many times. Please support me in cleaning up the deletion and tagging process, I am willing to put some work into this. I can write code as well. Some people have asked me not to use the mailing list, but I wanted to bring up this up in response to your mail. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mdupont/SpeedyDeletionWikia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mdupont#Speedy_backup_-_copyvios_and_attack_pages.3F thanks mike On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:00 AM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike, with all due respect we don't have the volunteers to do what you will need, and I doubt you would be able to recruit them yourself. Take one example, if an article clearly qualifies for A7 deletion as not asserting importance or significance then please don't rely on us to also check it for copyvio. An article that asserts that a footballer has only played for minor clubs, or that a band will be the next big thing on the Great Malvern Grunge scene as soon as they've recruited a drummer will be deleted per A7. Yes we need to check that this isn't the result of vandalism, and yes there are people not notable for their music career who are otherwise notable as Prime Ministers etc. But if an article clearly qualifies for A7 deletion then we currently have no need to also check it for copyvio. I'm sure if someone went through the thousands of pages that I've deleted there would be quite a few where copyvio could have been added as an additional deletion reason. Please reconsider your project. There is so much that can be done on Wikipedia to rescue articles worth rescuing that it would be a great waste to see time and energy diverted to unsalvageable articles. WSC ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Well I am listening, am open to criticism and willing to put work into helping, but as l long as I can continue legally and morally I will. But I will have to spend more time to review the known copyright violations and I am going to make some program to watch and flag articles that are known problems. The for me, getting deleted articles on my favorite topics make this worthwhile. The main issue is not notable, and as long as wikipedia as the policy of deleting basically everyone from parts of the world, I will have a basis to continue. mike On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:32 AM, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.com wrote: Please reconsider your project. There is so much that can be done on Wikipedia to rescue articles worth rescuing that it would be a great waste to see time and energy diverted to unsalvageable articles. -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org http://flossk.orgSaving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: The articles are hosted on archive.org, and then transfered to wikia, I could make some review tools, but where to host them? mike Well, why do you want to host them? Or, more specifically, why do you want to host them somewhere other than archive.org? I definitely understand wanting to save the content of these articles just in case someone wants to work on fixing them. Wikipedia's temporary undeletion process for people who wish to do this, is simply not convenient. But archive.org seems to take care of that purpose just fine. If the *topic* is deemed notable, just the article itself is of very poor quality, then once these have undergone manual review and intervention, the right place to host them would be back in Wikipedia. It would also be nice to have a wiki for topics deemed by Wikipedia to be not notable. But this is a much different problem, and I don't believe it is served well by the autopopulation of mostly very low quality articles. Also, sorry if this was already answered, but where are they on archive.org? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Hi, I created the wika because the archive.org is so hard to use and slow. I want to be able to share articles with people, and I have been contacting all the twitter users to tell them about the articles (after checking and updating them). I want to host them, at least the good ones to give bands and things a place to find themselves, or to give the non-notables a home. In fact, a few people have already found themselves via google or some means and have updated thier articles. I bet that this should be good enough to prevent them from recreating the articles on wp. The technical details are here, https://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/wiki/SpeedyDeletion https://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/wiki/SpeedyDeletionI created monthly buckets, the most recent one is here: http://archive.org/details/wikipedia-delete-v3-2012-07 If it turns out that too many articles that are copyvio are slipping through, i could turn off the feed to wikia, yet keep the archive.org feed, they are two separate processes. Ideally we would agree on some tag to mark articles that would be worthy of hosting, but not ready for wikipedia. We are pulling only some categories directly. mike On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: The articles are hosted on archive.org, and then transfered to wikia, I could make some review tools, but where to host them? mike Well, why do you want to host them? Or, more specifically, why do you want to host them somewhere other than archive.org? I definitely understand wanting to save the content of these articles just in case someone wants to work on fixing them. Wikipedia's temporary undeletion process for people who wish to do this, is simply not convenient. But archive.org seems to take care of that purpose just fine. If the *topic* is deemed notable, just the article itself is of very poor quality, then once these have undergone manual review and intervention, the right place to host them would be back in Wikipedia. It would also be nice to have a wiki for topics deemed by Wikipedia to be not notable. But this is a much different problem, and I don't believe it is served well by the autopopulation of mostly very low quality articles. Also, sorry if this was already answered, but where are they on archive.org? -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org http://flossk.orgSaving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On 22 July 2012 04:16, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Before trying to change New Page Patrol, you should try doing New Page Patrol for a few days. +1 I'm broadly an inclusionist, but reading a few hours' Special:Newpages is enough to have me breaking out the flamethrower. Anyone complaining about new pages patrol needs to personally sample the firehose of *mostly shit* that comes into Wikipedia. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On 22 July 2012 07:09, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: The problem with new articles from these places, and like india is that they have a very high deletion rate, and we need a way to save them. I am willing to put work into the articles on bands, artists, movies, atheletes etc , but also websites to save them. (this is getting a bit en:wp-specific, but anyway) Robert Horning just raised this on the Village Pump - he wants to get article incubation going again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#Article_Incubation..._how_sould_it_be_done_or_even_if_it_should_be_done.3F I answered that the main barrier was just having people willing to do it. You may want to mention your interest there. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
John, and others. I have finally figured out a big problem with my plan. The articles for deletion are not tagged peoperly at all. There are authors who know for a fact that articles are mistagged and have no proper copyvio tagging, and now they are accusing me of hosting copyvio articles. I see this a problem in the wikipedia deletion system, if an editor knows for a fact that an articles is in violation of copyright then they should tag it as Such. I have written scripts to strip out artilces that are properly tagged. Lets sit down and work out a plan for a proper system of sorting out what is not notable, and waht is copyrightvio. I want to host the non notable artilces. My argument is that giving non-notable bands and actors etc an outlet to be hosted will reduce repeated reposting of articles. I have been sorting through all these articles, contacting people and many of them are thankful, I would be suprized if any of them would repost the deleted article, like the Jack Psyco from .au, someone reposted his article many many times. Please support me in cleaning up the deletion and tagging process, I am willing to put some work into this. I can write code as well. Some people have asked me not to use the mailing list, but I wanted to bring up this up in response to your mail. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mdupont/SpeedyDeletionWikia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mdupont#Speedy_backup_-_copyvios_and_attack_pages.3F thanks mike On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:00 AM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to ensure that BLP deletions are tagged appropriately. and this wikia needs to err on the side of caution in order to avoid causing subjects further grief in their pursuit to remove problematic content from Wikipedia. i.e. if someone jumps through all the hoops to *help* us remove problematic content from Wikipedia, they are not going to be happy to learn that the same content has appeared on Wikia - its confusing, and they will blame Wikipedia, and IMO they are right to do so as this Wikia is run by people in the Wikimedia community, and due to the overlap in the WMF board and Wikia board, now and historically. e.g. this AFD mentioned WP:BLP1E and was categorised into AfD debates (Biographical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alexander_Kinyua http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_Kinyua Until we are confident that BLP problems are not being imported into the wikia, the content shouldnt be indexed. I assume __NOINDEX__ works on Wikia? On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote: Although I can understand the appeal of this concept, I am concerned that a deleted-articles wiki or site will perpetuate the publicity given to pages that are properly deleted from Wikipedia because they contain offensive personal attacks, harassment, cyberbullying, defamation, and BLP violations. These are not always flagged in the deletion grounds, especially in speedy situations (e.g. if a harassing or defamatory article does not assert the subject's notability, it will often be deleted on that ground without its being tagged as an attack page, etc.). This issue strikes me as extremely serious. How do you plan to address it? Newyorkbrad On 6/10/12, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I have launched speedydeletion.wika.com , it is updated every 30 minutes with the proposed deletions and speedy deletion articles (not notable and hoaxes, not others). it is running on the en.wikipedia.org. the sources for the script are all on git hub and are a merger of pywikipediabot and the wikiteam codebases. hope you enjoy it, thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On 21 July 2012 22:33, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: John, and others. I have finally figured out a big problem with my plan. The articles for deletion are not tagged peoperly at all. There are authors who know for a fact that articles are mistagged and have no proper copyvio tagging, and now they are accusing me of hosting copyvio articles. I see this a problem in the wikipedia deletion system, if an editor knows for a fact that an articles is in violation of copyright then they should tag it as Such. I have written scripts to strip out artilces that are properly tagged. Lets sit down and work out a plan for a proper system of sorting out what is not notable, and waht is copyrightvio. Not going to happen. The reality is that people deleting articles are going to opt for the option that takes the least effort on their part. And A7 beats out G12 in that case. The other issue is that OTRS, who's opinions we care about a lot more, complain when people go the other way (deleting things as copyvios rather than going through AFD). -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Hi Mike, You are going to find it difficult to find people who want to give their time to your project, as the cost benefit ratio is very low. If people had more time, they would be spending it rescuing the articles before deletion (on a non-profit wesbsite), rather than preparing them for rescuing after deletion (on a for-profit website). By reposting the content somewhere else, you are taking responsibility for it. And by hosting it, Wikia is also taking responsibility for it. And that responsibility requires you to work with the existing system, warts and all. Even good changes to the system will take a long time to become standard practise. Before trying to change New Page Patrol, you should try doing New Page Patrol for a few days. On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: John, and others. I have finally figured out a big problem with my plan. The articles for deletion are not tagged peoperly at all. There are authors who know for a fact that articles are mistagged and have no proper copyvio tagging, and now they are accusing me of hosting copyvio articles. I see this a problem in the wikipedia deletion system, if an editor knows for a fact that an articles is in violation of copyright then they should tag it as Such. I have written scripts to strip out artilces that are properly tagged. Lets sit down and work out a plan for a proper system of sorting out what is not notable, and waht is copyrightvio. I want to host the non notable artilces. My argument is that giving non-notable bands and actors etc an outlet to be hosted will reduce repeated reposting of articles. I have been sorting through all these articles, contacting people and many of them are thankful, I would be suprized if any of them would repost the deleted article, like the Jack Psyco from .au, someone reposted his article many many times. Please support me in cleaning up the deletion and tagging process, I am willing to put some work into this. I can write code as well. Some people have asked me not to use the mailing list, but I wanted to bring up this up in response to your mail. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mdupont/SpeedyDeletionWikia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mdupont#Speedy_backup_-_copyvios_and_attack_pages.3F thanks mike On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:00 AM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to ensure that BLP deletions are tagged appropriately. and this wikia needs to err on the side of caution in order to avoid causing subjects further grief in their pursuit to remove problematic content from Wikipedia. i.e. if someone jumps through all the hoops to *help* us remove problematic content from Wikipedia, they are not going to be happy to learn that the same content has appeared on Wikia - its confusing, and they will blame Wikipedia, and IMO they are right to do so as this Wikia is run by people in the Wikimedia community, and due to the overlap in the WMF board and Wikia board, now and historically. e.g. this AFD mentioned WP:BLP1E and was categorised into AfD debates (Biographical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alexander_Kinyua http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_Kinyua Until we are confident that BLP problems are not being imported into the wikia, the content shouldnt be indexed. I assume __NOINDEX__ works on Wikia? On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote: Although I can understand the appeal of this concept, I am concerned that a deleted-articles wiki or site will perpetuate the publicity given to pages that are properly deleted from Wikipedia because they contain offensive personal attacks, harassment, cyberbullying, defamation, and BLP violations. These are not always flagged in the deletion grounds, especially in speedy situations (e.g. if a harassing or defamatory article does not assert the subject's notability, it will often be deleted on that ground without its being tagged as an attack page, etc.). This issue strikes me as extremely serious. How do you plan to address it? Newyorkbrad On 6/10/12, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I have launched speedydeletion.wika.com , it is updated every 30 minutes with the proposed deletions and speedy deletion articles (not notable and hoaxes, not others). it is running on the en.wikipedia.org. the sources for the script are all on git hub and are a merger of pywikipediabot and the wikiteam codebases. hope you enjoy it, thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
The articles are hosted on archive.org, and then transfered to wikia, I could make some review tools, but where to host them? mike On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 12:51 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: While I think you have a good idea (similar to one that I myself did several years ago, and eventually abandoned for the very problems you're dealing with now), I don't think putting these pages directly into Wikia is going to work. If you decide to store the articles somewhere more private, at least until they are manually reviewed, let me know. By more private I mean, at a minimum, not listed in search engines. Have you looked into hosting the articles at Internet Archive? This seems like a better place than Wikia, at least before the articles are manually reviewed. On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: John, and others. I have finally figured out a big problem with my plan. The articles for deletion are not tagged peoperly at all. There are authors who know for a fact that articles are mistagged and have no proper copyvio tagging, and now they are accusing me of hosting copyvio articles. I see this a problem in the wikipedia deletion system, if an editor knows for a fact that an articles is in violation of copyright then they should tag it as Such. I have written scripts to strip out artilces that are properly tagged. Lets sit down and work out a plan for a proper system of sorting out what is not notable, and waht is copyrightvio. I want to host the non notable artilces. My argument is that giving non-notable bands and actors etc an outlet to be hosted will reduce repeated reposting of articles. I have been sorting through all these articles, contacting people and many of them are thankful, I would be suprized if any of them would repost the deleted article, like the Jack Psyco from .au, someone reposted his article many many times. Please support me in cleaning up the deletion and tagging process, I am willing to put some work into this. I can write code as well. Some people have asked me not to use the mailing list, but I wanted to bring up this up in response to your mail. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mdupont/SpeedyDeletionWikia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mdupont#Speedy_backup_-_copyvios_and_attack_pages.3F thanks mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org http://flossk.orgSaving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:27 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 July 2012 22:33, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: John, and others. I have finally figured out a big problem with my plan. The articles for deletion are not tagged peoperly at all. There are authors who know for a fact that articles are mistagged and have no proper copyvio tagging, and now they are accusing me of hosting copyvio articles. I see this a problem in the wikipedia deletion system, if an editor knows for a fact that an articles is in violation of copyright then they should tag it as Such. I have written scripts to strip out artilces that are properly tagged. Lets sit down and work out a plan for a proper system of sorting out what is not notable, and waht is copyrightvio. Not going to happen. The reality is that people deleting articles are going to opt for the option that takes the least effort on their part. And A7 beats out G12 in that case. Ok, well i understand that people dont want extra work, but I think we can work on some process and software. It might happend. The other issue is that OTRS, who's opinions we care about a lot more, complain when people go the other way (deleting things as copyvios rather than going through AFD). Is there any way to tag them like that? can we mark them? -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org http://flossk.orgSaving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
I'm actually really shocked that the speedy deletion wiki doesn't have a copy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Juclandia - there's an excellent version of the article on http://microwiki.org.uk/index.php?title=Juclandia , though, so all is not lost. [it seems to be a monstrously elaborate page about some kid's bedroom kingdom, by the way.] But seriously, my point is that you don't need to pick up the crumbs that are swept off Wikipedia's table to allow people the space to indulge their creative spirits. There are other wikis that will open their doors. David -- David Richfield [[:en:User:Slashme]] +27718539985 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Well, lets see the speedy deletion wiki was just launched, 15 December 2010 it was deleted. I will have to make a plan for getting older articles, they would be possible to get, but it is outside of our time window right now. mike On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:48 AM, David Richfield davidrichfi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm actually really shocked that the speedy deletion wiki doesn't have a copy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Juclandia - there's an excellent version of the article on http://microwiki.org.uk/index.php?title=Juclandia , though, so all is not lost. [it seems to be a monstrously elaborate page about some kid's bedroom kingdom, by the way.] But seriously, my point is that you don't need to pick up the crumbs that are swept off Wikipedia's table to allow people the space to indulge their creative spirits. There are other wikis that will open their doors. David -- David Richfield [[:en:User:Slashme]] +27718539985 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
ok kim, thanks again for your constructive feedback, and thanks to everyone who has given input. It is great to have a supportive group of people like you to talk to. now i have upgraded the code, including templates and full history. It gets all new articles not seen before every 10 minutes. Also the uploading to the wikia is working but without the history. I think this is a good deal. for the articles that we dont have the history for, people can ask an admin for restoring the history if they really want it, I dont have it for the old articles. Here is an example new dump : http://archive.org/download/wikipedia-delete-2012-06/wtarchive130612111041.zip code is here github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/pywikipediabot and github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/wikiteam mike On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: yes, good point, and while checking this I found a problem. it turns out that up to now I dont have the full history, I have modified the extractor to pull the full version. For the other articles, I dont have the full history. mike On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nlwrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi, Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no one is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as being from wikipedia. ps. It occurs to me that if the full history is available on archive.org, that linking to the relevant archive.org data might be adequate. sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Tarc Meridian t...@hotmail.com wrote: This has been tried before, i.e. wikialpha.org. Pages are speedily deleted for a reason, many of them quite properly so. Moving potentially libelous BLP attack pages and other sundry junk to a publicly viewable wiki is not a very well-thought-out idea. Every new article is potentially libelous. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
This has been debated numerous times; to what extent does the attribution have to relate to the exact contribution of each author. A list of authors has been considered acceptable in the past (including on-wiki). Tom On 12 June 2012 23:48, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi, Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no one is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as being from wikipedia. You are very concientious, and normally this would indeed be adequate (not perfect, but definitely adequate :) It is adequate because wikipedia itself retains full attribution information in page history. One can follow the chain from the copy back to the wikipedia original back to the page history and voila, more than you ever wanted to know. The problem with deleted/hidden articles on en.wp is that the history information is also deleted/hidden; and therefore the attribution chain is broken. Attribution information is important for legal and open content reasons of course. Is it possible to keep a copy of page history somewhere also? I know the mediawiki export/import functions support this, and work via GET request. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/Train sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
In theory, yes. However, if you're fetching page dumps conforming to the schema at http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.6/ http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.6.xsd to some extent you've already got all the information anyway. It *almost* takes more work to filter out just the authors. :-P If you're getting page data in some different format, sure. :-) sincerely, Kim Bruning On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:47:31AM +0100, Thomas Morton wrote: This has been debated numerous times; to what extent does the attribution have to relate to the exact contribution of each author. A list of authors has been considered acceptable in the past (including on-wiki). Tom On 12 June 2012 23:48, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi, Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no one is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as being from wikipedia. You are very concientious, and normally this would indeed be adequate (not perfect, but definitely adequate :) It is adequate because wikipedia itself retains full attribution information in page history. One can follow the chain from the copy back to the wikipedia original back to the page history and voila, more than you ever wanted to know. The problem with deleted/hidden articles on en.wp is that the history information is also deleted/hidden; and therefore the attribution chain is broken. Attribution information is important for legal and open content reasons of course. Is it possible to keep a copy of page history somewhere also? I know the mediawiki export/import functions support this, and work via GET request. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/Train sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- [Non-pgp mail clients may show pgp-signature as attachment] gpg (www.gnupg.org) Fingerprint for key FEF9DD72 5ED6 E215 73EE AD84 E03A 01C5 94AC 7B0E FEF9 DD72 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi, Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no one is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as being from wikipedia. ps. It occurs to me that if the full history is available on archive.org, that linking to the relevant archive.org data might be adequate. sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
yes, good point, and while checking this I found a problem. it turns out that up to now I dont have the full history, I have modified the extractor to pull the full version. For the other articles, I dont have the full history. mike On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote: Hi, Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no one is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as being from wikipedia. ps. It occurs to me that if the full history is available on archive.org, that linking to the relevant archive.org data might be adequate. sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Mike is the terror of deletionists. Good work. 2012/6/10 Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Hi, I have launched speedydeletion.wika.com , it is updated every 30 minutes with the proposed deletions and speedy deletion articles (not notable and hoaxes, not others). it is running on the en.wikipedia.org. the sources for the script are all on git hub and are a merger of pywikipediabot and the wikiteam codebases. hope you enjoy it, thanks, mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain) Projects: AVBOT http://code.google.com/p/avbot/ | StatMediaWikihttp://statmediawiki.forja.rediris.es | WikiEvidens http://code.google.com/p/wikievidens/ | WikiPapershttp://wikipapers.referata.com | WikiTeam http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/ Personal website: https://sites.google.com/site/emijrp/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
Indeed; and so it was...
{{facepalm}}
Tom
On 11 June 2012 17:32, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
here is one that is worth keeping!
http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Rootstrikers
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:57 PM, emijrp emi...@gmail.com wrote:
Mike is the terror of deletionists.
Good work.
2012/6/10 Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
Hi,
I have launched speedydeletion.wika.com , it is updated every 30
minutes
with the proposed deletions and speedy deletion articles (not notable
and
hoaxes, not others).
it is running on the en.wikipedia.org. the sources for the script are
all
on git hub and are a merger of pywikipediabot and the wikiteam
codebases.
hope you enjoy it,
thanks,
mike
--
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
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Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com
Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain)
Projects: AVBOT http://code.google.com/p/avbot/ |
StatMediaWikihttp://statmediawiki.forja.rediris.es
| WikiEvidens http://code.google.com/p/wikievidens/ |
WikiPapershttp://wikipapers.referata.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
On 11 June 2012 08:40, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: After rereading your question, it boils down to if the tags are wrong. If the tags are wrong we will have to deal with them on a case by case issue, and I see that we will have to do more finer tagging of articles to be deleted, I hope that this will be the outcome of my effort to see that articles that are properly tagged and deleted according to a fair and transparent set of rules. lets work on this together to make the wikipedia better. There's a couple of problems here. One is that speedy deletion tags don't often get stacked - if people see something that fills two criteria, they'll often tag them with just one, and usually prefer the clearer criteria, the one with less subjectivity about interpretation. Usually, this is seen with copyvio + not notable = only tag for copyvio; but it also manifests itself in the cases Brad mentions - not notable + negatively slanted = usually tagged for notability rather than negativity. This is a problem, because understandably most of the cases you want to *keep* are the not-notable ones... Secondly, some admins will delete abusive material on sight without waiting to tag it (which is skirting around best practice, but widely accepted for unambiguously bad content), and some people prefer to use hand-written CSD reasons. Both of these may end up with harder-to-interpret deletion logs (they don't contain the codes) - I'm not sure how your system works with these. What is the current policy now? you have articles in dumps that contain these offending materials i presume if they are not that new. What is the difference between a dump on wikpedia and a dump on archive.org, and a dump on wikia? The difference is that one is a hard-to-accidentally-stumble-across dump, and one is a publicly readable website ;-) I do not believe there are active moves to remove material from older dumps. *However*, the damage from problematic material surviving in dumps is relatively low, because most speedily deleted material tends never to make it into a dump. Let's assume dumps are twice-weekly. If every article tagged for speedy deletion on creation lasts for six hours before being removed, then there's approximately a 1/60 chance of it being around to when the dump triggers. By contrast, around 50% of articles marked with PROD just after creation will survive into the dump, even if deleted, and substantially over 50% of articles put through AFD on creation will be dumped even if deleted, because the frequency of relisting means many of them are tagged for two weeks. As a result, CSD material - which is where the worst content usually is - is much less likely to get dumped than AFD material. Some dumped abusive material does make it out onto reuse sites, though, and it's an incredible pain to deal with - people find it a year or two later, mirrored on an abandoned ad-farm website, and write us distressed letters about trying to get it removed. We can't do anything about it - these sites are usually completely uncontactable and don't care anyway - and it's quite an unpleasant experience for all concerned. If you're going to expose these on wikia as well as making archive files, I'd strongly recommend you give a clearly visible contact address to have material removed if needed - it'll save everyone involved lot of stress in future! -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
well originally i wanted just not notable, but i was interested in hoaxes personally. let me see, http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=hoaxfulltext=Search http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=hoaxfulltext=Searchthey are clearly marked and might contain something interesting some day thanks, mike On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Not quite - Mike says that it is updated...with the proposed deletions and speedy deletion articles (not notable and hoaxes, *not others*). Non-notable articles are arguably important to keep - they serve as a basis for recreating the articles in future, and for easy review by non-admins. Hoaxes are also important to keep publicy viewable - so that we can stop similar ones happening again, surely? Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Disclaimer viewable at http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Email_disclaimer Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk On 10 June 2012 18:29, Juergen Fenn schneeschme...@googlemail.com wrote: 2012/6/10 Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com: I have launched speedydeletion.wika.com , it is updated every 30 minutes with the proposed deletions and speedy deletion articles (not notable and hoaxes, not others). Speedydeleted articles are either no articles at all, thus not worth discussing, or they are copyright infrigements. I am sorry to say that I do not happen to understand why you collect those pages in a separate wiki. Regards, Jürgen. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched
What happens to your system if an article is deleted from Wikipedia, a new article is posted again under the same name, and then that one is also deleted? On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Kirill Lokshin kirill.loks...@gmail.com wrote: This is where I think things become slightly problematic. There are, in broad terms, two categories of hoaxes: those which are fundamentally harmless (these typically being of the did you know that 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary variety), and those which have the potential to be harmful (including, but not limited to, false statements about drugs, crimes, politically explosive issues, etc.). The speedy deletion system makes no real attempt to distinguish between these (with the exception of blatant attacks on living people, which have their own deletion tag), but retaining the second category in a publicly-viewable (and publicly-searcheable?) form is probably not desirable. I am willing to delete articles from the wikia, they are also archived on archive.org. it would be nice to work out a detailed tagging system to work out what may be archived and what not. We can remove categories and add them. But lets look at some of these, http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Ipod_5.5_generation this looks like someone who is providing infomation in the wrong way, but could be valid. http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Trantlers this is funny and would like to keep it and add a picture of it, maybe to a humor section. this one too http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Trantlas http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Willyfor this is strange , but might be some meme or urban legend. I guess unencylopedia. http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Like_Dis_Like_Dat same here, this is also unencylopedia material. now this looks like a hoax , and could be deleted, but also unencylopedia stuff. http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Aman_hadid personally I am interested in non notable articles, my experience with dealing with encouraging editors and collection creative commons licensed information on places that are not very notable like villages in kosovo could be helped with these articles. if we can find authors who are willing to write about non notable topics, maybe we can collect them and categorize them. this could be a recruiting mechanism and also provide good basic data and maybe new contributors for wikitravel and openstreetmap. with a staging system like this speedydeletion wikia you will have a way to demote articles to the speedy deletion purgatory where they might redeem themselves. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
