Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
Angela, Have you got any official support from the chapter for this bid? Having been the bid leader for the last time an Australian city took a tilt at this, I'd say that it's necessary to have committed support from the chapter to have any hope at all of success. I see that supporting the bid is a part of Liam's election platform, but I really think it's not appropriate to count on the chapter's enthusiastic support for a Sydney '12 bid without some sort of chapter-wide discussion on whether that's the best location and the best time to bid. I'm not saying that the idea of bidding is without merit, but I do think that this might not be the best time to proceed. In fact, when the chapter membership was polled in March, there seemed to very little to no support for bidding in 2011 (http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/2009_member_goals_survey), and I'm not sure that opinions on the topic have changed wildly since then. Cheers, Craig -Original Message- From: wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediaau-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Angela Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 4:29 PM To: Wikimedia-au Subject: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012 I think there's an advantage to putting up a bid page early so the jury can see that we're organised so I've started http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2012/Bids/Sydney Please add to it, and add your name if you can sign up to volunteer, either for a particular role or just generally. For inspiration, previous winning bids can be found here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005:Location http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Boston http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2007/Taipei http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2008/Bids/Alexandria http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2009/Bids/Buenos_Aires http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Gda%C5%84sk 2011 bids will be here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2011/Bids Angela ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
Have you got any official support from the chapter for this bid? As far as I'm aware, the chapter board has not said anything yet. My hope is that making the first step of putting up a bid page will generate some discussion amongst both the committee and members of Wikimedia Australia and of the wider community in order to work out whether this is the right thing to do and whether 2012 is the right time. Hosting Wikimania in Australia been discussed for many years now, and for me 2012 seems the ideal time for a bid. We've recently had a successful GLAM-WIKI conference, proving there are enough people here to make such an event work. It leaves us with all of 2010 and 2011 to make preparations and to host other smaller events to help build up the team prior to Wikimania in 2012. This is just the very first stage, and deliberately started early (most 2011 bids aren't up yet) in order to allow a lot of discussion and decision making. There's lots of time before anything needs to be finalised for the chapter and its members to put forward their views and to decide whether or not to support this. Angela ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
I wouldn't doubt that other places have managed to get off the ground without active chapter support, but the fact is that the Australian Wikimedian community is actually fairly small and the great majority of those (including the membership of any likely bid team) who would support such an event are involved in the chapter. We have around 45 financial members at present. From what I heard, huge numbers of local people were involved in getting Taipei off the ground - our distributed and relatively small population means we don't have that at our disposal here. Taiwan is 1/3 the area of Tasmania with a population greater than Australia's. Getting people in from other parts of Australia, as GLAM-WIKI proved, can be quite a challenge as we got I think 15-18 Wikimedians along to that. I think some discussion would need to be entered as to which city would be best. The city with our greatest number of volunteers - and certainly the most accessible city from a national/international point of view - is Melbourne. I don't know what venues are available in that city, though. Sydney and Brisbane have both made enquiries from bid promoters and venues, and the Brisbane Wikimania bid was a strong one (and I believe its sponsors are still on side). If we're all focusing in different directions then people get territorial over cities, the Wikimedian group doesn't get united behind one bid and it will necessarily fail. All just my own opinion of course. I do agree with Delphine that in order to make an event successful, planning well in advance of time is essential - as they say if one fails to plan, one plans to fail. cheers Andrew 2009/11/26 Angela bees...@gmail.com Have you got any official support from the chapter for this bid? As far as I'm aware, the chapter board has not said anything yet. My hope is that making the first step of putting up a bid page will generate some discussion amongst both the committee and members of Wikimedia Australia and of the wider community in order to work out whether this is the right thing to do and whether 2012 is the right time. Hosting Wikimania in Australia been discussed for many years now, and for me 2012 seems the ideal time for a bid. We've recently had a successful GLAM-WIKI conference, proving there are enough people here to make such an event work. It leaves us with all of 2010 and 2011 to make preparations and to host other smaller events to help build up the team prior to Wikimania in 2012. This is just the very first stage, and deliberately started early (most 2011 bids aren't up yet) in order to allow a lot of discussion and decision making. There's lots of time before anything needs to be finalised for the chapter and its members to put forward their views and to decide whether or not to support this. Angela ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Angela bees...@gmail.com wrote: Have you got any official support from the chapter for this bid? As far as I'm aware, the chapter board has not said anything yet. My hope is that making the first step of putting up a bid page will generate some discussion amongst both the committee and members of Wikimedia Australia and of the wider community in order to work out whether this is the right thing to do and whether 2012 is the right time. Hosting Wikimania in Australia been discussed for many years now, and for me 2012 seems the ideal time for a bid. We've recently had a successful GLAM-WIKI conference, proving there are enough people here to make such an event work. It leaves us with all of 2010 and 2011 to make preparations and to host other smaller events to help build up the team prior to Wikimania in 2012. This is just the very first stage, and deliberately started early (most 2011 bids aren't up yet) in order to allow a lot of discussion and decision making. There's lots of time before anything needs to be finalised for the chapter and its members to put forward their views and to decide whether or not to support this. Angela Thank you Delphine and Angela for your replies. Craig (and everyone else) perhaps I can give a bit of background and see if I can answer some of these questions. Angela and I have been in discussions with Business Events Sydney (BES - the new name for the Sydney Conventions Bureau) for a couple of months now. They approached the committee several months ago seeking a meeting to look at the feasibility of such a bid for Sydney - having watched the previous bid for Brisbane. BES do not charge commission or promote certain companies etc., they are a State government and tourism industry funded body to provide bidding support and advice in order to increase tourism to NSW. The Chapter committee gave me permission/support to meet with and canvas ideas with BES on an in-principle basis. I met with their representative (who has been extremely diligent in learning about past Wikimanias and their requirements, our culture and communication methods) and gave an outline of what a Wikimania in Sydney would require. Initially they were asking about 2011 and I pushed the discussion to 2012. As Delphine mentioned, the key ingredient in a successful Wikimania is not a Chapter per-se but a strong local team. Of course, as a Chapter person myself I wouldn't push for it if the Chapter wasn't itself keen. As for the number of Wikimedians in Sydney, what I have noted at the past three Wikimanias is the vast majority of the local volunteers were not in fact Wikimedians but sourced from local friendly organisations (such as local university students). Furthermore, given the turnout of the last couple of meetups in Sydney have been a majority of fist time meetup attendees I am convinced we haven't seen the potential of Sydney's Wikimedia community yet. Subsequently to the first meeting, I sought committee approval to bring Angela into the discussions too. I've been to the last 3 Wikimanias but Angela is one of only about a dozen who have been to every single one (Tim is also in this group). The BES rep, Angela and myself have looked over initial quotes from a series of venues and visited locations in Sydney to look at and talk with the venue managers. I hasten to add that this has always been and remains on an investigative level - no official decision to bid has been made by the committee, the chapter as a whole or even Angela and myself as the bid-leads. Furthermore the fact of our investigation into this issue at such an early date is a big advantage as it gives us time to scope the possibility (I'd like to mention that Wikimedia UK is currently preparing a bid for Manchester 2013http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Wikimania_Bid !) Next week the three of us will be meeting with the bid leader of the Free/Open Source for Geospatial (FOSS4G http://2009.foss4g.org/) conference to get an idea of the feasibility. This was a conference run last month at the Sydney convention centre and the bid was supported by BES. They are a similar size to Wikimania and also a similar type of organisation (FOSS geeks, volunteers etc.) and have similar types of requirements and sponsorship potential. This will give us an increased understanding of the feasibility and potential pitfalls. Finally, BES staff will be traveling to the USA in the next couple of months on a general study tour. As part of this trip they've offered to drop by the WMF office in San Francisco to speak with a staff rep there about Wikimania and to learn more about our culture and what such an event would require. So, all in all the takeaways are: - permission has been sought from the Chapter committee for this early discussion. - no formal bid or decision to bid has been taken. - all investigations that have been made are ones that would need to be made to make an informed
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Andrew orderinchao...@gmail.com wrote: Just a note re the above: The Chapter committee gave me permission/support to meet with and canvas ideas with BES on an in-principle basis. Subsequently to the first meeting, I sought committee approval to bring Angela into the discussions too. permission has been sought from the Chapter committee for this early discussion. I don't mean to be annoying here, but I think we need to be very careful about these kinds of statements. As an observer member of the committee, I can say with moderate certainty that the committee never resolved nor approved anything. There are no meeting minutes or resolutions covering it, and looking at the comm list emails, I would say a more correct statement was that the committee were notified of it, and that the committee did not oppose or object. regards Andrew I was not trying to imply that the WM-Au committee formally supports a bid, but that the committee was kept informed as to what I (and subsequently Angela and I) were up to and that I asked permission each time. Notified is indeed a good term for it. We never voted on it in meetings because there was nothing formal to vote on. Rather, it was raised on the mailing list to make sure that everyone on the committee was informed and to give a chance for people to raise any concerns or provide advice. Since no one raised any objections to this course of action you could call this tacit support. It has always been clear that the Australian Wikimedian community at large involved (and the committee would debate and vote) when we are at a stage of actually deciding on a course of action. Until then, it remains a fact-finding mission. Does this clarify things? -Liam ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
I hope my previous posts were not seen as a desire to stop developing bids. My emphasis was more on chapter or national support for a bid, which can only come through dialogue and working together. As someone who, no matter where it is held, will have to travel a long way to go there to support it, I'd actually like the opportunity to measure up well-crafted bids and see how they compare and ask questions of the bid teams before offering my support, and I'm sure a fair number of Wikimedians are in the same situation. Favouring a potential bid from one city from the outset without considering the wider picture (i.e. where is the best place to host it? what resources do we have? etc) risks alienating key stakeholders and also risks the chance of success of the bid / event, and our reputation with it if we tie our colours to the mast. Furthermore it shouldn't be forgotten that the chapter's foundational goal - its raison d'etre - is to promote and facilitate free cultural works. GLAM-WIKI was an excellent start to this. Other stuff - NLA, ABS etc - is happening around us as well, those are all positive developments. The Powerhouse Museum and Queensland Museum, which our chapter's members directly facilitated, are two more great examples. We have many in the GLAM sector and even some key senators and members of the Gov 2.0 taskforce on side. That progress needs to be consolidated. 2009/11/26 Gnangarra gnanga...@gmail.com The BES people were actively canvassing us for the possabillity of a bid from Sydney. Australia will only get one opportunity in the next 5 years(more likely 10) to host a Wikimania we need to maximise the opporunity for locals to attend . I see nothing wrong with starting a sydney bid page especially given that there is specific interest from the convention industry and we are gathering much needed information/experience/knowledge anyway. One thing that Canberra/GLAM-Wiki did show was that without outside assistance(AWM, Dictionary of Sydney, WMF) we didnt have the resources to host a small scale national event. Another experience which the committee was also able to learn is that the WM-au committee can only do so much but without a highly dedicated local organiser(or group) the outcome is going to much different. From what I'm seeing we have Liam, Angela with BES support working towards Sydney 2011/2012, there is no reason for them to stop developing a bid from Sydney nor is there any barrier for another location to also submit a bid. WM-au should be supportive of all bids even if there is more than one Australian city bidding because which ever is successful the members are the ones that will benefit, also because WM-au members arent just from Sydney nor Melbourne but right across the country the committee should be working to get the best possible outcomes for all members that outcome is a Wikimania in Australia. 2009/11/26 Stephen Bain stephen.b...@gmail.com On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Andrew orderinchao...@gmail.com wrote: I think some discussion would need to be entered as to which city would be best. The city with our greatest number of volunteers - and certainly the most accessible city from a national/international point of view - is Melbourne. I don't know what venues are available in that city, though. In some preliminary investigations a couple of years ago I checked out the University of Melbourne (my university). It has a wide selection of lecture theatres etc for hosting the sessions (most being wired for audio recording already, and some for video), and between semesters rooms in the colleges are available for rent at pretty reasonable prices - this would suit a bulk order of accommodation. The campus is also close to the city and other accommodation. -- Stephen Bain stephen.b...@gmail.com ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l -- GN. http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/ ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bidding for Wikimania 2012
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Virtual Steve virtual-st...@hotmail.com wrote: Liam in response to your message below, I find myself firmly in agreement with Andrew's caution as to what is said that the Chapter supported, particularly given that a new board is about to be elected. I am also concerned by the timing of the release of this information so close to that election as it tends to leave an inaccurate impression on the new board as to what are its earliest points of agenda. I'm sorry if I gave any implication that this needs to be an early agenda point. It doesn't. In fact, the board about to be elected is not even the one that needs to give their support. By current schedules, the bid doesn't need to be in until January 2011 - the next board's terms will have expired by then. There really is a long time for other bids to be prepared before anyone needs to decide which one(s) will actually be submitted to the jury, if any. Angela ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
