Re: [Wikimediaau-l] education projects and suitability of wmf projects in schools
When you start quoting Sanger's recent spray against Wikipedia to back up your argument then you know you've got larger problems Seriously - whilst I think it's an important issue that Wikipedia needs to be aware of how children could be affected by seeing adult material on Wikipedia (and how that might result in lesser access to Wikipedia in schools - which would harm our mission of providing educational materials) - surely you've realised that the way you go about peddling this issue, forum shopping, is not helping your cause. There was a lengthy, heated, and ultimately instructive debate recently (as a result of that Sanger spray) about how Wikipedia could provide tools to end-users for filtering the content they receive from Wikipedia that didn't undermine our principles of not censoring etc. Why not get involved in that existing conversation rather than trying to make this an Australian-specific issue? -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love metadata On 17 June 2010 03:47, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: G'day all, I wonder if we might find a good spot to have a discussion, as a chapter, about some of the issues relating to the explicit content hosted on Wikimedia Foundation projects (notably commons) and how it impacts education outreach in general. Maybe some principles are easier to distill on a chapter level? - it'd be nice to think so :-) The English Wikipedia co-founder, Larry Sanger, recently wrote; ''It is wrong for Wikipedia, both the community and the foundation, to portray its avowedly uncensored--read, absurdly child-unfriendly--resource as appropriate for children. This will remain the case until some sort of reliable filtering mechanism is available. At present, none is.'' http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Content_noticeboarddiff=prevoldid=367443733 I tend to agree, and in particular I feel that the use of WMF projects within schools is inappropriate, and long term opens us up to significant harm in reputation, with consequent knock on effects on utility (ie. when external organisations engage with the nature and scale of such images, I believe it's generally pretty shocking and upsetting - and they may conclude that WMF is, overall, irresponsible in this area). I think it's fair to say that engaging in 'outreach' work, in the manner the chapter supports, and facilitates, probably comes with responsibility - perhaps I can kick off some useful discussions with this question; Do you believe children should have access to wikipedia at school? If so, do you believe any sort of supervision or protection is appropriate or necessary? Maybe the official wiki would also be a good place to discuss this - although a note I dropped in recently, really as a reminder to myself, has been removed by Andrew as nothing to do with education projects - perhaps we'll find a better spot? ( http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Talk:Education_projectsdiff=2471oldid=2459) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] education projects and suitability of wmf projects in schools
I'm pretty involved in discussions in this area in various contexts, and I support a tool which allows end-users to filter content, but I don't see it on the horizon anywhere - are you aware of such tools nearing readiness? (do you, Liam, support such a tool by the way - I'm not 100% clear on that :-) I think it's important for all (especially the serving committee of course!) to consider whether or not they feel that use of Wikipedia (and all WMF projects) is appropraite in schools without such a filter, because currently 'we' (WMAU) seem to be interested in advocating such use - I think we should tread carefully. I do have some ideas for how WMAU could lead the way in developing some tools which allow schools, and other organisations, to engage with Wikipedia, and other WMF projects safely - p'raps I should write something up in terms of a small grant proposal, or something? (folk who've been bored by me chatting away at previous Sydney meetups may recall some of these ideas). Finally, on a more concerning note, it alarmed me greatly to learn that commons hosts material which is actually likely to be illegal here in Australia (media featuring people who appear to be underage, and media which features drawings of children in sexual situations) - does anyone currently involved in WMAU have any access to some professional advice which we could use to at least support the creation of a warning template for such material? cheers, Peter, PM. On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: When you start quoting Sanger's recent spray against Wikipedia to back up your argument then you know you've got larger problems Seriously - whilst I think it's an important issue that Wikipedia needs to be aware of how children could be affected by seeing adult material on Wikipedia (and how that might result in lesser access to Wikipedia in schools - which would harm our mission of providing educational materials) - surely you've realised that the way you go about peddling this issue, forum shopping, is not helping your cause. There was a lengthy, heated, and ultimately instructive debate recently (as a result of that Sanger spray) about how Wikipedia could provide tools to end-users for filtering the content they receive from Wikipedia that didn't undermine our principles of not censoring etc. Why not get involved in that existing conversation rather than trying to make this an Australian-specific issue? -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love metadata On 17 June 2010 03:47, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: G'day all, I wonder if we might find a good spot to have a discussion, as a chapter, about some of the issues relating to the explicit content hosted on Wikimedia Foundation projects (notably commons) and how it impacts education outreach in general. Maybe some principles are easier to distill on a chapter level? - it'd be nice to think so :-) The English Wikipedia co-founder, Larry Sanger, recently wrote; ''It is wrong for Wikipedia, both the community and the foundation, to portray its avowedly uncensored--read, absurdly child-unfriendly--resource as appropriate for children. This will remain the case until some sort of reliable filtering mechanism is available. At present, none is.'' http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Content_noticeboarddiff=prevoldid=367443733 I tend to agree, and in particular I feel that the use of WMF projects within schools is inappropriate, and long term opens us up to significant harm in reputation, with consequent knock on effects on utility (ie. when external organisations engage with the nature and scale of such images, I believe it's generally pretty shocking and upsetting - and they may conclude that WMF is, overall, irresponsible in this area). I think it's fair to say that engaging in 'outreach' work, in the manner the chapter supports, and facilitates, probably comes with responsibility - perhaps I can kick off some useful discussions with this question; Do you believe children should have access to wikipedia at school? If so, do you believe any sort of supervision or protection is appropriate or necessary? Maybe the official wiki would also be a good place to discuss this - although a note I dropped in recently, really as a reminder to myself, has been removed by Andrew as nothing to do with education projects - perhaps we'll find a better spot? ( http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Talk:Education_projectsdiff=2471oldid=2459) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list
[Wikimediaau-l] education projects and suitability of wmf projects in schools
G'day all, I wonder if we might find a good spot to have a discussion, as a chapter, about some of the issues relating to the explicit content hosted on Wikimedia Foundation projects (notably commons) and how it impacts education outreach in general. Maybe some principles are easier to distill on a chapter level? - it'd be nice to think so :-) The English Wikipedia co-founder, Larry Sanger, recently wrote; ''It is wrong for Wikipedia, both the community and the foundation, to portray its avowedly uncensored--read, absurdly child-unfriendly--resource as appropriate for children. This will remain the case until some sort of reliable filtering mechanism is available. At present, none is.'' http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Content_noticeboarddiff=prevoldid=367443733 I tend to agree, and in particular I feel that the use of WMF projects within schools is inappropriate, and long term opens us up to significant harm in reputation, with consequent knock on effects on utility (ie. when external organisations engage with the nature and scale of such images, I believe it's generally pretty shocking and upsetting - and they may conclude that WMF is, overall, irresponsible in this area). I think it's fair to say that engaging in 'outreach' work, in the manner the chapter supports, and facilitates, probably comes with responsibility - perhaps I can kick off some useful discussions with this question; Do you believe children should have access to wikipedia at school? If so, do you believe any sort of supervision or protection is appropriate or necessary? Maybe the official wiki would also be a good place to discuss this - although a note I dropped in recently, really as a reminder to myself, has been removed by Andrew as nothing to do with education projects - perhaps we'll find a better spot? ( http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Talk:Education_projectsdiff=2471oldid=2459) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
