Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
FYI - Pradeep has already left the list before this email your response was sent. Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:41:06 +0530 From: ashwin.bain...@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis My dear Pradeep, Please accept my apolodies. My intention was just to bring to your notice that many of us who you may consider Wikipedians and not FOSS are also FOSS guys. This is just a small issue which I did not want to snowball. Please dont quit from the list. Your hard work speaks for you. My apologies if I have hurt you unintendedly. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi, Since I am creating noise on the list, I apologise and resign from the list. Hope the signal levels go back up. If there is no article on OSM, please WP:BEBOLD and create one. Wikipedian vocabulary is not limited by the content of Wikimedia projects but rather by day to day usage. Again, apologies. I am sorry to see this mailing list also getting as divided as things are in the OSM. warm regards, Pradeep User:Prad2609 Handheld. On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Pradep, I pointed it because that acronym created confusion in this list Sudhavana understood OSM as Open street Maps, in the same way as i understood. I feel your mail is adding further noise to thread Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. en:wp does not have a page on Open source Movement It is FSM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Dear Sudhanwa, My sincerest appologies. In my effort to be transparent, I made a mistake. In the report, attribution by name will not occur. Thank you for answering the chapter question. OSM = open source movement. Thanks for your clarification. For FOSS guys like us these are the meanings of following acronyms FSM = Free Software Movement OSM= Open Street Maps Anivar Best, Tory Read Sent from my mobile On Dec 3, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- [It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information. - Donald Knuth ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. Pradeep On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Dear Sudhanwa, My sincerest appologies. In my effort to be transparent, I made a mistake. In the report, attribution by name will not occur. Thank you for answering the chapter question. OSM = open source movement. Thanks for your clarification. For FOSS guys like us these are the meanings of following acronyms FSM = Free Software Movement OSM= Open Street Maps Anivar Best, Tory Read Sent from my mobile On Dec 3, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- [It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information. - Donald Knuth ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. Pradeep On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Dear Sudhanwa, My sincerest appologies. In my effort to be transparent, I made a mistake. In the report, attribution by name will not occur. Thank you for answering the chapter question. OSM = open source movement. Thanks for your clarification. For FOSS guys like us these are the meanings of following acronyms FSM = Free Software Movement OSM= Open Street Maps Anivar Best, Tory Read Sent from my mobile On Dec 3, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- [It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information. - Donald Knuth ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
There is no such thing as FOSS guys and us, Pradeep. Quite a lot of us are FOSS guys.There is no we vs them. In the event where acronyms are used loosely without expansion, clarification is always preferable. BTW OSM (Open Street Maps) is a term which came up in the WikiConference also. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. Pradeep On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Dear Sudhanwa, My sincerest appologies. In my effort to be transparent, I made a mistake. In the report, attribution by name will not occur. Thank you for answering the chapter question. OSM = open source movement. Thanks for your clarification. For FOSS guys like us these are the meanings of following acronyms FSM = Free Software Movement OSM= Open Street Maps Anivar Best, Tory Read Sent from my mobile On Dec 3, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- [It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information. - Donald Knuth ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
hi Ashwin, I only replied in that manner since Anivar made use of the 'in the FOSS movement' term which implies seperation. Given that, please advise me in how my email could be worded otherwise. It becomes difficult to make sentences where a temporary seperation might be needed to make an argument. In the wider perspective, the OSM movement has several parts and they have their acronyms. When Wikipedians want to address all open source guys, we use the term OSM. Also, be assured, I had nothing against the clarification - which was asked and given. I think the matter should have ended there. I expressed my opinion on that fact. warm regards, Pradeep Handheld On 05/12/2011, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.bain...@gmail.com wrote: There is no such thing as FOSS guys and us, Pradeep. Quite a lot of us are FOSS guys.There is no we vs them. In the event where acronyms are used loosely without expansion, clarification is always preferable. BTW OSM (Open Street Maps) is a term which came up in the WikiConference also. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. Pradeep On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Dear Sudhanwa, My sincerest appologies. In my effort to be transparent, I made a mistake. In the report, attribution by name will not occur. Thank you for answering the chapter question. OSM = open source movement. Thanks for your clarification. For FOSS guys like us these are the meanings of following acronyms FSM = Free Software Movement OSM= Open Street Maps Anivar Best, Tory Read Sent from my mobile On Dec 3, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- [It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information. - Donald Knuth ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Pradep, I pointed it because that acronym created confusion in this list Sudhavana understood OSM as Open street Maps, in the same way as i understood. I feel your mail is adding further noise to thread Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. en:wp does not have a page on Open source Movement It is FSM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
hi, Since I am creating noise on the list, I apologise and resign from the list. Hope the signal levels go back up. If there is no article on OSM, please WP:BEBOLD and create one. Wikipedian vocabulary is not limited by the content of Wikimedia projects but rather by day to day usage. Again, apologies. I am sorry to see this mailing list also getting as divided as things are in the OSM. warm regards, Pradeep User:Prad2609 Handheld. On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Pradep, I pointed it because that acronym created confusion in this list Sudhavana understood OSM as Open street Maps, in the same way as i understood. I feel your mail is adding further noise to thread Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. en:wp does not have a page on Open source Movement It is FSM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
My dear Pradeep, Please accept my apolodies. My intention was just to bring to your notice that many of us who you may consider Wikipedians and not FOSS are also FOSS guys. This is just a small issue which I did not want to snowball. Please dont quit from the list. Your hard work speaks for you. My apologies if I have hurt you unintendedly. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi, Since I am creating noise on the list, I apologise and resign from the list. Hope the signal levels go back up. If there is no article on OSM, please WP:BEBOLD and create one. Wikipedian vocabulary is not limited by the content of Wikimedia projects but rather by day to day usage. Again, apologies. I am sorry to see this mailing list also getting as divided as things are in the OSM. warm regards, Pradeep User:Prad2609 Handheld. On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Pradep, I pointed it because that acronym created confusion in this list Sudhavana understood OSM as Open street Maps, in the same way as i understood. I feel your mail is adding further noise to thread Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. en:wp does not have a page on Open source Movement It is FSM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Relax, Pradeep. The confusion/noise is only from the fact that OSM has been a longstanding acronym for Open Street Maps, which is an important facet of Open Knowledge Culture. To be very frank, I was completely unaware of the term OSM for Open Source Movement, and also read Tory's acronym as Open Street Maps, and while being very pleased to learn that Sudhanwa was a contributor to it, was confused in equal measure by (what I assumed was) his shyness to being identified with Wikimedia. On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi, Since I am creating noise on the list, I apologise and resign from the list. Hope the signal levels go back up. If there is no article on OSM, please WP:BEBOLD and create one. Wikipedian vocabulary is not limited by the content of Wikimedia projects but rather by day to day usage. Again, apologies. I am sorry to see this mailing list also getting as divided as things are in the OSM. warm regards, Pradeep User:Prad2609 Handheld. On 05/12/2011, Anivar Aravind anivar.arav...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Pradeep Mohandas pradeep.mohan...@gmail.com wrote: hi Anivar, Wikipedians like us call it the Open Source Movement. Since, we're all on the Wikipedia list, the acronym is acceptable. We don't have to adjust for the FOSS guys and be specific. Please understand and adjust. Pradep, I pointed it because that acronym created confusion in this list Sudhavana understood OSM as Open street Maps, in the same way as i understood. I feel your mail is adding further noise to thread Just feel that your email was not needed. I know you had good intentions and I'm assuming WP:AGF. en:wp does not have a page on Open source Movement It is FSM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Dear Sudhanwa, My sincerest appologies. In my effort to be transparent, I made a mistake. In the report, attribution by name will not occur. Thank you for answering the chapter question. OSM = open source movement. Thanks for your clarification. Best, Tory Read Sent from my mobile On Dec 3, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Hi Guys, I cc'd the three of you on this because I suddenly stopped getting my digests from the India list 2 days ago, and I want to make sure my message is properly posted. I'd also like to know how to get my digests reinstated. Thanks, Tory Sent from my mobile On Dec 2, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner - Abhilasha Sharma, SSE student - Anushikha Benazur, SSE student - Dr. Jyoti Chandiramani, SSE Director - 3 more SSE students, informal conversation over lunch - Debanjan Bandyopadhyay, CA SSE - Radha Misra, professor, SNDT Women's College, Pune - Shweta Shinde, student, COEP - Gautam Akiwate, student, COEP - informal conversation with 3 CAs and 1 student, COEP - Dr. Anil V. Sahasrabudhe, Director, COEP - Dr. Pradeep Waychal, professor, COEP - Kudpung, WP Admin (skype video) - Srikanth Lakshmanan, WP editor, OA for IEP (skype audio) - Hisham Mundol, WMF India (telephone) ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner - Abhilasha Sharma, SSE student - Anushikha Benazur, SSE student - Dr. Jyoti Chandiramani, SSE Director - 3 more SSE students, informal conversation over lunch - Debanjan Bandyopadhyay, CA SSE - Radha Misra, professor, SNDT Women's College, Pune - Shweta Shinde, student, COEP - Gautam Akiwate, student, COEP - informal conversation with 3 CAs and 1 student, COEP - Dr. Anil V. Sahasrabudhe, Director, COEP - Dr. Pradeep Waychal, professor, COEP - Kudpung, WP Admin (skype video) - Srikanth Lakshmanan, WP editor, OA for IEP (skype audio) - Hisham Mundol, WMF India (telephone) Reviewing user, talk and article pages of all CAs and students interviewed. Ongoing check-in on talk pages regarding program communication. Interviews to come: - Wasim, CA COEP - Pratik Lohati, CA COEP - Arjun M. K., CA COEP - Vaibhav Chandak, CA COEP - Prof. Abhijit Sir, professor, COEP - Bala Jeyaraman (telephone) - Risker (skype) - Ruud (email) - Andy Dingley (email) - Voceditenore (email) - Fluffernutter (email) - Danger (talk page) - MER-C (talk page) - Matthiespaul (tbd) - Moonriddengirl (telephone) - Ayush Khanna, Data Analyst, Global Development Program, WMF SF (telephone) This is my complete list. Data gathering closes Monday, 5 December, except I will take the statistical numbers from WMF whenever I get them. My contract includes 20 interviews, and I am already doing many more, so please refrain from adding to my list. I am completely off line and away from cell phone from noon 5 December - noon 12 December, San Francisco Time. I will not respond to any communication during that time. I will be collating interviews and drafting my report 12 - 31 December. I will deliver as a word file to WMF and also post to my Userspace (exact location TBD, I am just learning all of this WP online method as I go). Please assume good faith. I am very good at what I do, and I have a lot of integrity. I respect Wikipedia and everyone who contributes to it. Warm Regards, Tory Read On Nov 30, 2011, at 12:18 AM, wikimediaindia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: Send Wikimediaindia-l mailing list submissions to wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikimediaindia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org You can reach the person managing the list at wikimediaindia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Wikimediaindia-l digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis (Ashwin Baindur) 2. Re: [[Brian Horrocks]] not an Indian FA (Srikanth Ramakrishnan) 3. Re: [[Brian Horrocks]] not an Indian FA (Pradeep Mohandas) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:11:22 +0530 From: Ashwin Baindur ashwin.bain...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: camo0pchjr6rtx_93k9s_ytuvahfx--9to7kknldt-t8hbvm...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Often, it helps to have an outsider perspective. We in the Pune community met Torey to day and are of the opinion that the Foundation wants someone from their side to provide an impartial outsider's view and also to explore ways ahead in addition to finding out whats going on and what had happened. Obviously, her assignment is just one of a number of initiatives that are underway to improve/get feedback regarding the IEP fiasco. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Anirudh Bhati anirudh...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Hi all, Thanks for the engagement on the questions that should be tacked
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Tory, my impression or none of the interviews are with people from WM India? _ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 2 December 2011 07:44, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Guys, I cc'd the three of you on this because I suddenly stopped getting my digests from the India list 2 days ago, and I want to make sure my message is properly posted. I'd also like to know how to get my digests reinstated. Thanks, Tory Sent from my mobile On Dec 2, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner - Abhilasha Sharma, SSE student - Anushikha Benazur, SSE student - Dr. Jyoti Chandiramani, SSE Director - 3 more SSE students, informal conversation over lunch - Debanjan Bandyopadhyay, CA SSE - Radha Misra, professor, SNDT Women's College, Pune - Shweta Shinde, student, COEP - Gautam Akiwate, student, COEP - informal conversation with 3 CAs and 1 student, COEP - Dr. Anil V. Sahasrabudhe, Director, COEP - Dr. Pradeep Waychal, professor, COEP - Kudpung, WP Admin (skype video) - Srikanth Lakshmanan, WP editor, OA for IEP (skype audio) - Hisham Mundol, WMF India (telephone) ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
The members of the Pune community mentioned are also members of WM India chapter. Sudhanwa also holds a position in the Executive Committee. Pradeep User:Prad2609 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 13:43:25 + From: berial...@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org CC: t...@toryread.com Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis Tory, my impression or none of the interviews are with people from WM India?_ Béria Lima (351) 925 171 484 Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. On 2 December 2011 07:44, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Guys, I cc'd the three of you on this because I suddenly stopped getting my digests from the India list 2 days ago, and I want to make sure my message is properly posted. I'd also like to know how to get my digests reinstated. Thanks, Tory Sent from my mobile On Dec 2, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner - Abhilasha Sharma, SSE student - Anushikha Benazur, SSE student - Dr. Jyoti Chandiramani, SSE Director - 3 more SSE students, informal conversation over lunch - Debanjan Bandyopadhyay, CA SSE - Radha Misra, professor, SNDT Women's College, Pune - Shweta Shinde, student, COEP - Gautam Akiwate, student, COEP - informal conversation with 3 CAs and 1 student, COEP - Dr. Anil V. Sahasrabudhe, Director, COEP - Dr. Pradeep Waychal, professor, COEP - Kudpung, WP Admin (skype video) - Srikanth Lakshmanan, WP editor, OA for IEP (skype audio) - Hisham Mundol, WMF India (telephone) ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Tory Read t...@toryread.com wrote: Hi Folks, My apologies for not replying sooner. I am on the ground in India, doing in person interviews, while juggling communication on email, talk pages, skype, etc. Here is a summary of what I have been up to: 20 hours in US reviewing talk pages and email list communication regarding IEP Interviews so far, in order in which they were done (in person, unless otherwise noted): - Barry Newstead, WMF SF - Frank Schulenburg, WMF SF - Annie Lin, WMF SF - LiAnna Davis, WMF SF - Hisham Mundol, WMF India - Nitika Tandon, WMF India - Shiju Alex, WMF India - Ram Shankar Yadav, CA Pune - Ishita Ghosh, professor, SSE, Pune - informal conversation with 2 SSE students and 2 CAs over lunch in Pune - Rashmi Barua, SSE student - Devanchi Tripathi, SSE student and CA - Ashwin Baindur, Mandar Kulkarni (Pune WP community members) and Sudhanwa Jogalekar (OSM friend of WP, Pune), group interview over dinner Dear Tory, It was really nice to meet you again and have some discussions. I am not sure what is the context you are referring in those lines in the mail. I am very much part of Pune community. and no way related to OSM (open street maps) All of us mentioned are India chapter members. Ashwin is the first member of the chapter !!! and I also happen to be on the India chapter EC. (apart from WMF GAC where I am not so active) One of the members wanted anonymity that you maintained during last visit and was expected this time also. Somehow, that has not happened. Anyways, Keep up the good work. Will like to see your report soon. Best regards, -Sudhanwa [snip] ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Point well taken. Of course, you realise that I am a well wisher of the Programs and its participants. Sorry to inadvertantly hurt your feelings. Challenge or setback would have been more appropriate. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Ram Shankar Yadav ramshankarya...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ashwin! Please don't use the word fiasco, yes we had seen some setbacks but it's not a complete failure. It's really demotivating for the people who were a part of IEP (me included). Thanks, Ram On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.bain...@gmail.com wrote: Often, it helps to have an outsider perspective. We in the Pune community met Torey to day and are of the opinion that the Foundation wants someone from their side to provide an impartial outsider's view and also to explore ways ahead in addition to finding out whats going on and what had happened. Obviously, her assignment is just one of a number of initiatives that are underway to improve/get feedback regarding the IEP fiasco. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Anirudh Bhati anirudh...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi all, Thanks for the engagement on the questions that should be tacked in this evaluation. See inline for a brief response to Theo's question about Tory Read. Best, Barry On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: I really didn't read the entire thread to have a lot of comments, I just have one point I noticed that I wanted to ask - Why is Tory Read conducting the evaluative study? As I recall, her only exposure to India and Wikipedia before this was the research project. And even that had nothing to do with the Education program directly. Is there a reason why she's leading the study? It seems like the same pattern of avoiding knowledgeable and experienced members of the community to focus on the outside perspective. I thought the only lesson that the team did take away was, you can't do in India what the global education team and Frank did in the US. They don't scale and you need local solutions. I'm pretty sure Ms. Read is a competent researcher and would do a good job but I don't see how Ms. Read's expertise or exposure to India and the Education program would make this process any different from the pattern that brought IEP here. Talking to the staff in SF, or spending a day in Delhi or Pune is not going to give a clear picture at all. Tory is indeed a competent researcher who built a solid understanding of the community and how things work in Wikimedia during her engagement with us in the India Chronicles. I selected her for this assignment because she has a good working knowledge of our general situation from her work on the India Chronicles, she has the skills to interview a good cross-section of those involved (WP editors, students, profs, Campus Ambassadors, online ambassadors, staff, others), she can look at the issue with fresh eyes and help synthesize learning and recommendations for changes, she will get this done in a timely fashion while memories are still fresh (which is really important). She is doing a combination of Skype, email and in-person interviews...and is in Pune this week actually. I'm confident that her work will be valuable to all of us and it will be shared in its entirety with the community. It won't be the only work on this. Both the India team and the Global Education Program team are committed to doing more joint problem-solving on future changes to the program with those interested in engaging with us. Hi Barry, My understanding is that conducting an evaluative study requires a deep comprehension of our projects and the volunteers. At the same time, an exercise like this demands objectivity while analyzing empirical evidence. By building a repertoire of anecdotal evidence through a series of interviews mostly conducted over phone/VoIP, I do not see how this report will inform us beyond what discussions on this mailing list already have. Tory Read is an accomplished story-teller, but she is not a Wikipedian. Can we simply not have WMF staff in New Delhi handle the interviews and requests for comment? (They should also seek help from some of the established Wikipedia editors.) The reason why I am stressing on this is because I think that an established Wikipedia editor would be better-placed to objectively analyze what worked and what did not work, and how this program may be improved. Such editors need not be Indian, they can be a group of Wikipedians who were directly or peripherally involved on Wikipedia when the IEP program was being executed. Best, anirudh ___
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Hi Ashwin This is very very very much a draft document. I have now mentioned that on the page. This was just my initial draft thoughts. (For instance, I've hardly covered a quarter of the learnings that I myself have put together- which again are very preliminary.) The various elements of the learnings gathering exercise that I had mentioned in an earlier mail will all feed into this - and we will also be reaching out to the community for their inputs. The purpose of this page was just for me to put some structure to my work. I take on board your points about high level strategic direction that we need to finalise before we start building the nuts and bolts. Improved Campus Ambassador training is certianly on that list but a whole host of others would also feature such as college selection, faculty selection involvement, subject selection, class selection, student selection, numbers, etc. etc. etc . However, what will determine and inform these will be the learnings that we are in the process of collating. My request is therefore to treat this page as a little workplace for me right now. Thanks Nitika On 29-Nov-2011, at 1:39 PM, Ashwin Baindur wrote: Nitika, I saw your draft edits about IEP campus ambassador syllabus on meta at the link below http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Education_Program/Program_Design#In-class but I felt that your syllabus seemed to repeat in essence whatever had happened earlier. Perhaps before redesigning your syllabus, you may like to decide en bloc, ie at a higher level, what changes you want in the overall scheme. For example, should the campus ambassadors have four days training instead of two? How much editting should be taught? What skills do they need to know? ( Needs to be mapped out). After getting all input, we should have developed something broad which says something like (for example) - Campus ambassadors will need to undergo six days of training - in three sessions. In session 1 (two days) they learn about Wikipedia, becoming an editor and intro to CA program. In session 2 (two days), some weeks later they hone their editing skills, knowledge competence and learn all things necessary to help editors. In the interim, they do some assignments, like bringing articles to GA, citation,etc which are of direct relevance to students and their assignments. In the last two day session,they get involved hands-on in the full gamut of activities that CA involves with role-playing skill development etc. After that and only after making something like that at its broadest level, should you flesh out the details. I would strongly recommend getting community involvement in developing this broad plan of action. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Hey Rohit, I will do the early two hours. That is six to eight. In the evening, I will do the six to eight pm block. :) Regards Harsha -- Sent via Nokia Email --Original message-- From: Gautam John gau...@prathambooks.org To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:23:58 PM GMT+0530 Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis Dear Nitika: I'm most glad this is being done and being shared. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) A lot of this should be possible via the API - maybe Jace can show us how we can do it programatically. Do please share your thoughts and suggestions on the above. Please also do let me know if I've missed out anything. I'd be curious in looking at the copyvio stuff in greater detail but I do not know if that adds any value to your research. Thank you. Best, Gautam http://blog.prathambooks.org/p/social-media.html ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: I really didn't read the entire thread to have a lot of comments, I just have one point I noticed that I wanted to ask - Why is Tory Read conducting the evaluative study? As I recall, her only exposure to India and Wikipedia before this was the research project. And even that had nothing to do with the Education program directly. Is there a reason why she's leading the study? It seems like the same pattern of avoiding knowledgeable and experienced members of the community to focus on the outside perspective. I thought the only lesson that the team did take away was, you can't do in India what the global education team and Frank did in the US. They don't scale and you need local solutions. I'm pretty sure Ms. Read is a competent researcher and would do a good job but I don't see how Ms. Read's expertise or exposure to India and the Education program would make this process any different from the pattern that brought IEP here. Talking to the staff in SF, or spending a day in Delhi or Pune is not going to give a clear picture at all. Tory is indeed a competent researcher who built a solid understanding of the community and how things work in Wikimedia during her engagement with us in the India Chronicles. I selected her for this assignment because she has a good working knowledge of our general situation from her work on the India Chronicles, she has the skills to interview a good cross-section of those involved (WP editors, students, profs, Campus Ambassadors, online ambassadors, staff, others), she can look at the issue with fresh eyes and help synthesize learning and recommendations for changes, she will get this done in a timely fashion while memories are still fresh (which is really important). So, In summary, her only exposure to India and the community *was* the Research project that was undertaken for WMF earlier this year. I haven't had the chance to see the India Chronicles, but I can take your word for it. My point was, fresh eyes were what brought us here, but that notion doesn't seem to be registering with anyone yet. You are trying to justify that a single visit for a research project on behalf of WMF qualifies someone about a culture, community and a country. I thought you needed more local Indian perspective on this, how is this a start? She is doing a combination of Skype, email and in-person interviews...and is in Pune this week actually. I'm confident that her work will be valuable to all of us and it will be shared in its entirety with the community. It won't be the only work on this. Both the India team and the Global Education Program team are committed to doing more joint problem-solving on future changes to the program with those interested in engaging with us. Again, as I said, mostly remote work, and a couple of days in Pune and Delhi. Honestly, I'm not sure anyone currently on the WMF India staff has a good view of this, even after engaging directly for several months. I can't seem to understand what a researcher/consultant who wasn't as engaged as the staff can come up with. Anyway, It was just my opinion. I made my concerns known before the IEP was undertaken, I guess you guys have this. Regards Theo ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Hi all, Thanks for the engagement on the questions that should be tacked in this evaluation. See inline for a brief response to Theo's question about Tory Read. Best, Barry On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: I really didn't read the entire thread to have a lot of comments, I just have one point I noticed that I wanted to ask - Why is Tory Read conducting the evaluative study? As I recall, her only exposure to India and Wikipedia before this was the research project. And even that had nothing to do with the Education program directly. Is there a reason why she's leading the study? It seems like the same pattern of avoiding knowledgeable and experienced members of the community to focus on the outside perspective. I thought the only lesson that the team did take away was, you can't do in India what the global education team and Frank did in the US. They don't scale and you need local solutions. I'm pretty sure Ms. Read is a competent researcher and would do a good job but I don't see how Ms. Read's expertise or exposure to India and the Education program would make this process any different from the pattern that brought IEP here. Talking to the staff in SF, or spending a day in Delhi or Pune is not going to give a clear picture at all. Tory is indeed a competent researcher who built a solid understanding of the community and how things work in Wikimedia during her engagement with us in the India Chronicles. I selected her for this assignment because she has a good working knowledge of our general situation from her work on the India Chronicles, she has the skills to interview a good cross-section of those involved (WP editors, students, profs, Campus Ambassadors, online ambassadors, staff, others), she can look at the issue with fresh eyes and help synthesize learning and recommendations for changes, she will get this done in a timely fashion while memories are still fresh (which is really important). She is doing a combination of Skype, email and in-person interviews...and is in Pune this week actually. I'm confident that her work will be valuable to all of us and it will be shared in its entirety with the community. It won't be the only work on this. Both the India team and the Global Education Program team are committed to doing more joint problem-solving on future changes to the program with those interested in engaging with us. Hi Barry, My understanding is that conducting an evaluative study requires a deep comprehension of our projects and the volunteers. At the same time, an exercise like this demands objectivity while analyzing empirical evidence. By building a repertoire of anecdotal evidence through a series of interviews mostly conducted over phone/VoIP, I do not see how this report will inform us beyond what discussions on this mailing list already have. Tory Read is an accomplished story-teller, but she is not a Wikipedian. Can we simply not have WMF staff in New Delhi handle the interviews and requests for comment? (They should also seek help from some of the established Wikipedia editors.) The reason why I am stressing on this is because I think that an established Wikipedia editor would be better-placed to objectively analyze what worked and what did not work, and how this program may be improved. Such editors need not be Indian, they can be a group of Wikipedians who were directly or peripherally involved on Wikipedia when the IEP program was being executed. Best, anirudh ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Hi Ashwin! Please don't use the word fiasco, yes we had seen some setbacks but it's not a complete failure. It's really demotivating for the people who were a part of IEP (me included). Thanks, Ram On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Ashwin Baindur ashwin.bain...@gmail.comwrote: Often, it helps to have an outsider perspective. We in the Pune community met Torey to day and are of the opinion that the Foundation wants someone from their side to provide an impartial outsider's view and also to explore ways ahead in addition to finding out whats going on and what had happened. Obviously, her assignment is just one of a number of initiatives that are underway to improve/get feedback regarding the IEP fiasco. Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur -- On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Anirudh Bhati anirudh...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Hi all, Thanks for the engagement on the questions that should be tacked in this evaluation. See inline for a brief response to Theo's question about Tory Read. Best, Barry On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: I really didn't read the entire thread to have a lot of comments, I just have one point I noticed that I wanted to ask - Why is Tory Read conducting the evaluative study? As I recall, her only exposure to India and Wikipedia before this was the research project. And even that had nothing to do with the Education program directly. Is there a reason why she's leading the study? It seems like the same pattern of avoiding knowledgeable and experienced members of the community to focus on the outside perspective. I thought the only lesson that the team did take away was, you can't do in India what the global education team and Frank did in the US. They don't scale and you need local solutions. I'm pretty sure Ms. Read is a competent researcher and would do a good job but I don't see how Ms. Read's expertise or exposure to India and the Education program would make this process any different from the pattern that brought IEP here. Talking to the staff in SF, or spending a day in Delhi or Pune is not going to give a clear picture at all. Tory is indeed a competent researcher who built a solid understanding of the community and how things work in Wikimedia during her engagement with us in the India Chronicles. I selected her for this assignment because she has a good working knowledge of our general situation from her work on the India Chronicles, she has the skills to interview a good cross-section of those involved (WP editors, students, profs, Campus Ambassadors, online ambassadors, staff, others), she can look at the issue with fresh eyes and help synthesize learning and recommendations for changes, she will get this done in a timely fashion while memories are still fresh (which is really important). She is doing a combination of Skype, email and in-person interviews...and is in Pune this week actually. I'm confident that her work will be valuable to all of us and it will be shared in its entirety with the community. It won't be the only work on this. Both the India team and the Global Education Program team are committed to doing more joint problem-solving on future changes to the program with those interested in engaging with us. Hi Barry, My understanding is that conducting an evaluative study requires a deep comprehension of our projects and the volunteers. At the same time, an exercise like this demands objectivity while analyzing empirical evidence. By building a repertoire of anecdotal evidence through a series of interviews mostly conducted over phone/VoIP, I do not see how this report will inform us beyond what discussions on this mailing list already have. Tory Read is an accomplished story-teller, but she is not a Wikipedian. Can we simply not have WMF staff in New Delhi handle the interviews and requests for comment? (They should also seek help from some of the established Wikipedia editors.) The reason why I am stressing on this is because I think that an established Wikipedia editor would be better-placed to objectively analyze what worked and what did not work, and how this program may be improved. Such editors need not be Indian, they can be a group of Wikipedians who were directly or peripherally involved on Wikipedia when the IEP program was being executed. Best, anirudh ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: We want to collate data points to be able to analyze and draw out trends. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) Sharing the entire list of data points would be a nice thing to have. If it is possible. What's the amount of data that students have added to Wikipedia? What's the amount of data that got reverted? What's the net amount of information that the students have added on Wikipedia? The above should lend themselves to instrumentation and should be somewhat trivially available. How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments? This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to ask - why would you want to track this ? How many student's got warnings on their talk pages? How many students corrected their errors after these warnings? How many students got blocked? / How many students got blocked more than once? Again, the above should be easily instrumented. At least, the initial nature of the questions look that way. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Assuming this question is not restricted for WMF outreachers only: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments? This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to ask - why would you want to track this ? It is quite possible that many students get conditioned to look at school assignments as 'work', and either try and avoid doing any work outside of the amount specifically committed, or avoid doing anything considered as work outside of the time allotted for 'work'. As a corollary, although I do not fancy that Wikimedia is attempting to directly change the way that our education system works in practice, students who treat contributing to Wikipedia/Wikimedia as 'fun' may be better tuned to handling life tasks better/more responsibly in the future. Lots of imponderables, I know, but there must be something measurable between students who emerge from school having learned something (and continue to learn happily) and those who only get through examinations. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Somethings vital that are missing: 1) How many regular editors were required to clean up the articles. How many reverts/cleanup edits were required to clean up after the IEP students. 2) How many admin actions/interventions were required - warnings, blocks, mergers, deletions, AFDs 3) How many regular volunteer hours were spent on this project. 4) How much did the new page patrollers (NPP) backlog increase because of IEP 5) How much did the copyright cleanup investigations (CCI) backlog increase because of IEP 6) How long is it going to take to clean everything up. What do the NPP/CCI project members feel about the extra workload. 7) What was the impact on the existing en wiki community. How their attitude towards such a program has been damaged. A supplimentary question: Are kudpung, moonriddengirl, fluffernutter, Voceditenore, spacemanspiff et al being interviewed? On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: We want to collate data points to be able to analyze and draw out trends. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) Sharing the entire list of data points would be a nice thing to have. If it is possible. What's the amount of data that students have added to Wikipedia? What's the amount of data that got reverted? What's the net amount of information that the students have added on Wikipedia? The above should lend themselves to instrumentation and should be somewhat trivially available. How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments? This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to ask - why would you want to track this ? How many student's got warnings on their talk pages? How many students corrected their errors after these warnings? How many students got blocked? / How many students got blocked more than once? Again, the above should be easily instrumented. At least, the initial nature of the questions look that way. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Dear Nitika: I'm most glad this is being done and being shared. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) A lot of this should be possible via the API - maybe Jace can show us how we can do it programatically. Do please share your thoughts and suggestions on the above. Please also do let me know if I've missed out anything. I'd be curious in looking at the copyvio stuff in greater detail but I do not know if that adds any value to your research. Thank you. Best, Gautam http://blog.prathambooks.org/p/social-media.html ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 17:33, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: Actually not. And that's the main reason why we had to pull down the Leaderboard (tool that shows bytes of data that has been added by a student on Wikipedia) as well. The Leaderboard accounted for all the edits that a student would make either on the talk page or on the article space. Also, if a students work has been reverted on the article, the leaderborad did not account that. Ideally the total amount of data that a student has added should exclude amount of data added on talk pages, should exclude data that is no more existing on wikipedia and has been reverted. All this data is not easily accessible. For me the above data can be classified as Number of bytes added and the sole purpose of it can be to have projections to increase storage if the program is to expand, am sure wmf ops is otherwise too good at improving infra and this would serve no purpose. I would call these as fake numbers because a rollbacker's number would be huge negative number, but I would assume everyone here agrees rollbacker does positive edits. There is no point in having this numeric data since one cannot infer anything irrespective of the number. -- Regards Srikanth.L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Dear Bala, I'm glad that you came up with few more questions but most of them are in negative tone. We would love to have few questions from you pointing on few of the good things as well. Please don't mind, it's not personal. Thanks, Ram On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Bala Jeyaraman sodabot...@gmail.comwrote: Somethings vital that are missing: 1) How many regular editors were required to clean up the articles. How many reverts/cleanup edits were required to clean up after the IEP students. 2) How many admin actions/interventions were required - warnings, blocks, mergers, deletions, AFDs 3) How many regular volunteer hours were spent on this project. 4) How much did the new page patrollers (NPP) backlog increase because of IEP 5) How much did the copyright cleanup investigations (CCI) backlog increase because of IEP 6) How long is it going to take to clean everything up. What do the NPP/CCI project members feel about the extra workload. 7) What was the impact on the existing en wiki community. How their attitude towards such a program has been damaged. A supplimentary question: Are kudpung, moonriddengirl, fluffernutter, Voceditenore, spacemanspiff et al being interviewed? On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: We want to collate data points to be able to analyze and draw out trends. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) Sharing the entire list of data points would be a nice thing to have. If it is possible. What's the amount of data that students have added to Wikipedia? What's the amount of data that got reverted? What's the net amount of information that the students have added on Wikipedia? The above should lend themselves to instrumentation and should be somewhat trivially available. How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments? This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to ask - why would you want to track this ? How many student's got warnings on their talk pages? How many students corrected their errors after these warnings? How many students got blocked? / How many students got blocked more than once? Again, the above should be easily instrumented. At least, the initial nature of the questions look that way. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Ram, Whatever the tone of the email, the questions Bala has raised are very pertinent IMHO and should be made part of the research. We have a common goal of seeing the IEP fly high and benefit the movement. It is a pitiful sight to see bright talented campus ambassadors and seasoned well-respected editors go back and forth like this. Lets not engage in personalities and focus on the end result. Kind Regards, From: ramshankarya...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:07:36 +0530 To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis Dear Bala,I'm glad that you came up with few more questions but most of them are in negative tone. We would love to have few questions from you pointing on few of the good things as well. Please don't mind, it's not personal. Thanks,Ram On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Bala Jeyaraman sodabot...@gmail.com wrote: Somethings vital that are missing: 1) How many regular editors were required to clean up the articles. How many reverts/cleanup edits were required to clean up after the IEP students. 2) How many admin actions/interventions were required - warnings, blocks, mergers, deletions, AFDs 3) How many regular volunteer hours were spent on this project. 4) How much did the new page patrollers (NPP) backlog increase because of IEP 5) How much did the copyright cleanup investigations (CCI) backlog increase because of IEP 6) How long is it going to take to clean everything up. What do the NPP/CCI project members feel about the extra workload. 7) What was the impact on the existing en wiki community. How their attitude towards such a program has been damaged. A supplimentary question: Are kudpung, moonriddengirl, fluffernutter, Voceditenore, spacemanspiff et al being interviewed? On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: We want to collate data points to be able to analyze and draw out trends. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) Sharing the entire list of data points would be a nice thing to have. If it is possible. What's the amount of data that students have added to Wikipedia? What's the amount of data that got reverted? What's the net amount of information that the students have added on Wikipedia? The above should lend themselves to instrumentation and should be somewhat trivially available. How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments? This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to ask - why would you want to track this ? How many student's got warnings on their talk pages? How many students corrected their errors after these warnings? How many students got blocked? / How many students got blocked more than once? Again, the above should be easily instrumented. At least, the initial nature of the questions look that way. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
Ram, The points i raised need to be asked and they are missing and i am raising them. This isnt about negative/positive tone. Any project that causes a three month long clean up effort involving hundreds of regular editors needs to document how much time and effort it is costing and what is its impact on the regular functioning of the project. Without that there is no real learning, especially when the program execs are seeking to repeat it. - Bala On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 6:07 PM, Ram Shankar Yadav ramshankarya...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Bala, I'm glad that you came up with few more questions but most of them are in negative tone. We would love to have few questions from you pointing on few of the good things as well. Please don't mind, it's not personal. Thanks, Ram On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Bala Jeyaraman sodabot...@gmail.comwrote: Somethings vital that are missing: 1) How many regular editors were required to clean up the articles. How many reverts/cleanup edits were required to clean up after the IEP students. 2) How many admin actions/interventions were required - warnings, blocks, mergers, deletions, AFDs 3) How many regular volunteer hours were spent on this project. 4) How much did the new page patrollers (NPP) backlog increase because of IEP 5) How much did the copyright cleanup investigations (CCI) backlog increase because of IEP 6) How long is it going to take to clean everything up. What do the NPP/CCI project members feel about the extra workload. 7) What was the impact on the existing en wiki community. How their attitude towards such a program has been damaged. A supplimentary question: Are kudpung, moonriddengirl, fluffernutter, Voceditenore, spacemanspiff et al being interviewed? On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM, sankarshan foss.mailingli...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Nitika ntan...@wikimedia.org wrote: We want to collate data points to be able to analyze and draw out trends. Here is an example of data that we're trying to dig out (and this is just a sub-set of a preliminary list) Sharing the entire list of data points would be a nice thing to have. If it is possible. What's the amount of data that students have added to Wikipedia? What's the amount of data that got reverted? What's the net amount of information that the students have added on Wikipedia? The above should lend themselves to instrumentation and should be somewhat trivially available. How many students edited articles outside of their in-class assignments? This is an interesting and non-trivial question. Which prompts me to ask - why would you want to track this ? How many student's got warnings on their talk pages? How many students corrected their errors after these warnings? How many students got blocked? / How many students got blocked more than once? Again, the above should be easily instrumented. At least, the initial nature of the questions look that way. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
I really didn't read the entire thread to have a lot of comments, I just have one point I noticed that I wanted to ask - Why is Tory Read conducting the evaluative study? As I recall, her only exposure to India and Wikipedia before this was the research project. And even that had nothing to do with the Education program directly. Is there a reason why she's leading the study? It seems like the same pattern of avoiding knowledgeable and experienced members of the community to focus on the outside perspective. I thought the only lesson that the team did take away was, you can't do in India what the global education team and Frank did in the US. They don't scale and you need local solutions. I'm pretty sure Ms. Read is a competent researcher and would do a good job but I don't see how Ms. Read's expertise or exposure to India and the Education program would make this process any different from the pattern that brought IEP here. Talking to the staff in SF, or spending a day in Delhi or Pune is not going to give a clear picture at all. Either way, Good Luck. Regards Theo On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Ram Shankar Yadav ramshankarya...@gmail.com wrote: Great suggestion Srikanth! I totally agree with you on quality, staging and motivation aspects. Cheers, Ram On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Apart from studying ourselves, It would also be interesting to do a case study of similar student participatory programs and take best practices and incorporate them. Google Summer of Code would be a classic example, though its a summer contract, but some of the aspects are worth comparing. 1. GSoC has a steep(okay relatively much higher) barrier to entry to attract the cream of students inturn the number of students would be significantly less. 2. Many students continue to contribute to the organization / open source in general beyond the contract 3. Strong staging process to cross the gates(merging the codeline happens mostly post final evaluation) ensures impact of the student does not affect the community. 4. Many communities are largely happy to participate in GSoC since they usually get contributors to the community. 5. Communication models that exist in the program, typically there would be hardly anyone from the city / country for that matter to mentor. The communication happens online inspite of timezone differences. 6. GSoC gives a huge money as motivation, but most students join the program for reasons beyond money though they swipe the cards :D There are few students on this list who took the same program with WMF, they could share some insights too! Regards, Srikanth L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On 28-Nov-2011, at 5:23 PM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote: A supplimentary question: Are kudpung, moonriddengirl, fluffernutter, Voceditenore, spacemanspiff et al being interviewed? 4 out these 5 have been/will be interviewed. Nitika ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On 28-Nov-2011, at 6:22 PM, Ram Shankar Yadav wrote: All of us are truly committed to do that and I would love to see few points like - How we can better engage the community? - How many students are still editing Wikipeida, out of their course requirement? - How we can encourage newbies instead of blocking and scolding them, how to make it a fun place? Great points Ram. We should definitely look at these. Nitika ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IEP Pilot - Preliminary Analysis
On 28-Nov-2011, at 5:23 PM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote: Somethings vital that are missing: 1) How many regular editors were required to clean up the articles. How many reverts/cleanup edits were required to clean up after the IEP students. 2) How many admin actions/interventions were required - warnings, blocks, mergers, deletions, AFDs 3) How many regular volunteer hours were spent on this project. 4) How much did the new page patrollers (NPP) backlog increase because of IEP 5) How much did the copyright cleanup investigations (CCI) backlog increase because of IEP 6) How long is it going to take to clean everything up. What do the NPP/CCI project members feel about the extra workload. 7) What was the impact on the existing en wiki community. How their attitude towards such a program has been damaged. Agreed Bala - it is important to analyse the effort that has been put in reviewing all the articles that the students have written. I'll forward this list to Tory and request her to address these questions during her interviews with admins, editors et all. Thanks Nitika ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
