Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Kaartic Sivaraam 

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 02:06:09 +, Chad  wrote,

(3) I would*really*  like to have 2--maybe 3--browsers to list. There's
zero reason to make users think there's only one option when there's a
couple of valid ones.


I would love that too. Imagine that we do take the step and start promoting 
Firefox
"alone" to legacy users. I "suspect" the first reaction of a user who doesn't
take the time to realise we're promoting an open-source movement while trying to
help them get rid of their legacy browser to be,

   "I thought Wikipedia doesn't show ads/promotions. Seems they have
   changed their motive of "Not showing ads for revenue"! May be they'll
   be showing more ads in the future. ARRRGGHHH!"

That might be a little over boasted, though! In order to avoid such reactions 
how about
recommending Firefox in the pop-up/central notice and linking to a list of 
other good
browsers to show we aren't promoting /advertising browsers. For the list of 
other browsers
we could link to https://browsehappy.com

To address this,

On Fri Sep 1 13:55:19 UTC 2017, Federico Leva (Nemo)  wrote,

-1 to linking any resource which is not itself free software,
translatable with free software and managed by a privacy-compliant org.


I guess browsehappy is at least open source.

https://github.com/WordPress/browsehappy


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Kaartic


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Chad 
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 3:57 PM Neil Patel Quinn 
wrote:

> I understand the desire to avoid playing favorites by directing users to a
> list of browsers rather than a single one, but I think that cuts against
> *both
> *the goals of doing this in the first place.
>
> The first goal is to nudge users to upgrade from an insecure, less-capable
> browser to a modern one. But if we present them a list of 10 alternatives
> (or even 2), they're far more likely to get stuck in choice paralysis [1]
> and far less likely to actually do what we want and upgrade.
>
>
Indeed. A big list of "HEY PICK ONE OF THESE" means we'll end up fracturing
our users over a bunch of browsers that most of us would never even use
ourselves. I merely suggested Chromium alongside Firefox because it's also
free/open, even if driven by the BIG EVIL GOOGLE.


> The second goal is to strengthen non-profit, open-web-focused browser
> makers by increasing their market share. As I see it, the best way to do
> this is to nudge all our users towards a single, high-quality browser which
> already has significant market share, rather than distributing them across
> many different browsers with tiny market shares.
>
>
Indeed, like I said above. However high quality is subjective...my
experiences with Firefox have been horrible the last several years, which
is why I stick to Chromium/Chrome mostly. That's why I'd suggest like
basically 2-3 options tops so we don't play favorites :)


> I'd suggest that the best areas for debate are (1) whether these are good
> goals, (2) whether their benefits justify interrupting users' browsing, and
> (3) which single browser would be the best destination
>
> Obviously, my answers are (1) yes, (2) yes, and (3) Firefox, but some will
> disagree :)
>
>
(1) Eh, maybe. I care mostly because these older platforms are horribly
insecure and if we can get people on a half-decent browser on those
platforms then that's a win (cf: T118181 and all its various linked tasks).
Javascript is way down the list of why I care here :)

(2) We already interrupt some of these users anyway per the TLS migration
stuff I mentioned in (1) above. I think the rollout there--start with small
percentages and slowly ramp up prior to there being a deadline is a good
route to go.

(3) I would *really* like to have 2--maybe 3--browsers to list. There's
zero reason to make users think there's only one option when there's a
couple of valid ones.

-Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread zppix e 
I personally use firefox on desktop and safari on my mobile (im lazy to install 
an web browser on mobile lol) but I don't think we should make users feel like 
we're pushing them towards a certain browser because someone(s) agree the 
browser is recommended. While yes people may see the list and get overwhelmed 
and not update but at the same time not showing them more than one option can 
cause the same thing because they feel we support one thing over another. All 
in all I have no issue recommending firefox i just have an issue not giving the 
user a feeling of choice of modern browsers.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 5:56 PM, Neil Patel Quinn  wrote:
> 
> I understand the desire to avoid playing favorites by directing users to a
> list of browsers rather than a single one, but I think that cuts against *both
> *the goals of doing this in the first place.
> 
> The first goal is to nudge users to upgrade from an insecure, less-capable
> browser to a modern one. But if we present them a list of 10 alternatives
> (or even 2), they're far more likely to get stuck in choice paralysis [1]
> and far less likely to actually do what we want and upgrade.
> 
> The second goal is to strengthen non-profit, open-web-focused browser
> makers by increasing their market share. As I see it, the best way to do
> this is to nudge all our users towards a single, high-quality browser which
> already has significant market share, rather than distributing them across
> many different browsers with tiny market shares.
> 
> I'd suggest that the best areas for debate are (1) whether these are good
> goals, (2) whether their benefits justify interrupting users' browsing, and
> (3) which single browser would be the best destination
> 
> Obviously, my answers are (1) yes, (2) yes, and (3) Firefox, but some will
> disagree :)
> 
> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis
> 
>> On 1 September 2017 at 12:15, zppix e  wrote:
>> 
>> Why dont we link to an list of web browsers compatible with wmf projects
>> and let the user decide
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 12:09 PM, Chad  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 6:55 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 At least until a proper resource exists, just directing people to the
 latest Firefox is probably the most reasonable option (we certainly
 can't support the incumbent).
 
 
>>> Is linking to Firefox and Chromium an option?
>>> 
>>> -Chad
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> product analyst
> Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Neil Patel Quinn 
I understand the desire to avoid playing favorites by directing users to a
list of browsers rather than a single one, but I think that cuts against *both
*the goals of doing this in the first place.

The first goal is to nudge users to upgrade from an insecure, less-capable
browser to a modern one. But if we present them a list of 10 alternatives
(or even 2), they're far more likely to get stuck in choice paralysis [1]
and far less likely to actually do what we want and upgrade.

The second goal is to strengthen non-profit, open-web-focused browser
makers by increasing their market share. As I see it, the best way to do
this is to nudge all our users towards a single, high-quality browser which
already has significant market share, rather than distributing them across
many different browsers with tiny market shares.

I'd suggest that the best areas for debate are (1) whether these are good
goals, (2) whether their benefits justify interrupting users' browsing, and
(3) which single browser would be the best destination

Obviously, my answers are (1) yes, (2) yes, and (3) Firefox, but some will
disagree :)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis

On 1 September 2017 at 12:15, zppix e  wrote:

> Why dont we link to an list of web browsers compatible with wmf projects
> and let the user decide
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 1, 2017, at 12:09 PM, Chad  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 6:55 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> At least until a proper resource exists, just directing people to the
> >> latest Firefox is probably the most reasonable option (we certainly
> >> can't support the incumbent).
> >>
> >>
> > Is linking to Firefox and Chromium an option?
> >
> > -Chad
> > ___
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> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> ___
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-- 
Neil Patel Quinn ,
product analyst
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread zppix e 
Why dont we link to an list of web browsers compatible with wmf projects and 
let the user decide

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 12:09 PM, Chad  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 6:55 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
> 
>> At least until a proper resource exists, just directing people to the
>> latest Firefox is probably the most reasonable option (we certainly
>> can't support the incumbent).
>> 
>> 
> Is linking to Firefox and Chromium an option?
> 
> -Chad
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[Wikitech-l] TechCom Radar, 2017-08-30

2017-09-01 Thread Daniel Kinzler 
Hi all!

Find below the minutes of the last meeting of the Technical Committee.


* Giuseppe Lavagetto joins TechCom!

* Ongoing issue: Large job queue backlog, see
 and


* Work started on MCR (Daniel, Anomie). Expect RFC for finalizing the data model
soon. Old draft:


* IRC meeting on HTML5 (UTF8) section IDs happened.


* Postgres RFC approved, except for the proposed change to the representation of
timestamps. 

* Next week’s IRC: Separate "application" and "project" concerns by moving most
of MediaWiki within a /core folder 
As always, the discussion will take place in the IRC channel
#wikimedia-office on Wednesday 21:00 UTC (2pm PDT, 23:00 CEST).

* Investigation on offline reading (PDF and HTML/ZIM):
 and



You can also find our meeting minutes at


See also the TechCom RFC board
.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Chad 
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 6:55 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
wrote:

> At least until a proper resource exists, just directing people to the
> latest Firefox is probably the most reasonable option (we certainly
> can't support the incumbent).
>
>
Is linking to Firefox and Chromium an option?

-Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo) 
-1 to linking any resource which is not itself free software, 
translatable with free software and managed by a privacy-compliant org.


Positive example of what I mean: https://pdfreaders.org/ .

At least until a proper resource exists, just directing people to the 
latest Firefox is probably the most reasonable option (we certainly 
can't support the incumbent).


Nemo

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Dan Garry 
On 1 September 2017 at 01:58, Gergo Tisza  wrote:
>
> We could send them to something like https://whatbrowser.org/ or
> https://browsehappy.com/


whatbrowser.org is definitely a nice experience, but it does require JS to
work; it fails to load both your current browser and suggestions for others
without JS. A lot of older browsers do have Javascript support, so that
might not be a problem, but perhaps it could be for some browsers.

Speaking of neutrality, it's important to note that whatbrowser.org is
owned and run by Google. I don't think that's a problem, since the site is
fairly neutral in its assessment and recommendations.

Dan

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Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Recommending Firefox to users using legacy browsers?

2017-09-01 Thread Katie Chan 

On 01/09/2017 01:58, Gergo Tisza wrote:

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:37 PM, bawolff  wrote:


I'm concerned this would be seen as an inapropriate bias.



We could send them to something like https://whatbrowser.org/ or
https://browsehappy.com/
Motivating users to update their outdated browsers would definitely be a
good idea.


+1

Tell people to update very old browser, sure. Advertise a specific one, 
no no.


KTC


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Re: [Wikitech-l] libraryupgrader will now upgrade libraries

2017-09-01 Thread Legoktm 
Sorry, I totally forgot to include a link to the main project page:
.

-- Legoktm

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[Wikitech-l] MediaWiki-CodeSniffer 0.12.0

2017-09-01 Thread Legoktm 
Hello!

MediaWiki-CodeSniffer 0.12.0 is now available for use in your MediaWiki
extensions and other projects. This release fixes bugs from 0.11.0 as
well as some new features:

* Add sniff to ensure floats have a leading `0` if necessary (Kunal Mehta)
* Add sniff to ensure the class name matches the filename (Kunal Mehta)
* Change bootstrap-ci.php to match PHP CodeSniffer 3.0.0 (Umherirrender)
* Check for unneeded punctation in @param and @return (Umherirrender)
* Check spacing after type in @return (Umherirrender)
* Check spacing before type in @param and @return (Umherirrender)
* Clean up test helpers (Kunal Mehta)
* Do not mess long function comments on composer fix (Umherirrender)
* Enforce "short" type definitions in multi types in function comments
(Umherirrender)
* Make it easier to figure out which test failed (Kunal Mehta)
* phpunit: replace deprecated strict=true (Umherirrender)
* Remove GoatSniffer integration (Kunal Mehta)
* Remove unmatched @codingStandardsIgnoreEnd (Umherirrender)
* Rename OpeningKeywordBracketSniff to OpeningKeywordParenthesisSniff
(Reedy)
* Use local OneClassPerFile sniff for only one class/interface/trait
(Kunal Mehta)

Patches were submitted by libraryupgrader for all MediaWiki extensions
and skins to update them to the newest version (see my other email for
more details).

Thanks,
-- Legoktm

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[Wikitech-l] libraryupgrader will now upgrade libraries

2017-09-01 Thread Legoktm 
Hi,

In the past I used a few scripts on my laptop to submit patches and
review bumps to libraries, usually for MediaWiki-CodeSniffer. I've now
migrated this to a separate account "libraryupgrader", that is now
semi-automatically doing the entire process, and runs inside a Cloud VPS
project.

I've also filed a request for the bot to have +2 permissions for simple
library bumps[1].

(And thank you to Niharika for stepping up and helping review today's
library update of MediaWiki-CodeSniffer!)

[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174760

Thanks,
-- Legoktm

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