Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikimedia-l] ContentTranslation gets to 2000
Hi Jane, Thanks for trying ContentTranslation and providing feedback. Replies inline. I decided to translate a short article from Spanish to English Currently the extension is configured for translation *from* English, but not *to* English. This will probably be changed soon to allow translation to English, but there will be a proper separate announcement about this. Then I tried to enable it for my 'Dutch userpage and got the extension up and running for Spanish-Dutch but couldn't find which link was the from link and the to link (a couple of tries and I got the dashboard up and running). The easiest ways to open the dashboard are: 1. Hovering over the Contributions link at the top personal bar and clicking Translations. 2. Opening the article that you want to translate and finding the language into which you want to translate in the interlanguage links list. (It's guessed automatically; for example, it's suposed to appear there if you selected it in ULS.) Then I found myself in the Visual editor It's not *the* VisualEditor, but *a* visual editor - a very simple WYSIWYG editor. (It's possible that in the future it will be *the* VisualEditor, but there's no solid plan for it yet.) There are several reasons for doing it this way, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Documentation/FAQ . and tried to wikify some text with no luck. It doesn't support wiki syntax, as explained above. It supports simple formatting and adding links (the links support is being rewritten right now to be more stable and intuitive). Because it is not supposed to be a full-fledged article editing environment, it only provides the most basic formatting tools. For full-fledged wikification you can use the wikitext editor or the VisualEditor, whichever you wish. I then clicked on one of the reference links and lost my work. This is definitely a bug! Usually references work pretty well. Sorry about that. Which article was it? I restarted the page and saved some basics, but was disappointed that there was no translation of the infobox or the image, which was what I was hoping for. We don't support infoboxes yet. It's very challenging technically, so for now we just ignore them, but we hope to have support for them in the future. Currently, ContentTranslation is mostly for the articles' prose, links, categories and images. It is supposed to support images. In fact, in the real-life demos that I'm doing it's the feature that experienced Wikipedians usually love the most. Unfortunately, it cannot support an image that is a part of an infobox. Thanks for all of your work on this, because I do believe translating existing content is a direction that I personally want to take in the Wikiverse in general. Thank you very much again for the testing and the feedback! We'll do our best to address the bugs. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2015-06-05 12:41 GMT+03:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Amir, This tool is great in theory and sounds wonderful but I am personally having some trouble putting it into practice.The short video was VERY helpful, but I am afraid I still ran into some problems on my second attempt at a translation. Here is a roundup of links: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Content_Translation_Screencast_%28English%29.webm I decided to translate a short article from Spanish to English but since my Spanish is almost zero I first tried to change the translation interface to English but no luck. Then I tried to enable it for my 'Dutch userpage and got the extension up and running for Spanish-Dutch but couldn't find which link was the from link and the to link (a couple of tries and I got the dashboard up and running). Then I found myself in the Visual editor (yikes!) and tried to wikify some text with no luck. I then clicked on one of the reference links and lost my work. I restarted the page and saved some basics, but was disappointed that there was no translation of the infobox or the image, which was what I was hoping for. Here's the original: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_sala_del_concejo_del_ayuntamiento_de_%C3%81msterdam Here's the result (all I got was the Wikidata item link, lead sentence and the category) https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raadskamer_in_het_stadhuis_van_Amsterdam Wikimagic added the Dutch infobox already, but shouldn't this be possible to do from the dashboard? Thanks for all of your work on this, because I do believe translating existing content is a direction that I personally want to take in the Wikiverse in general. Jane Thanks, Jane On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: [ cross-posted to MediaWiki-i18n, Wikimedia-L and Wikitech-L ] Dear Wikimedians, The 2000th article that was written using the ContentTranslation extension
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikimedia-l] ContentTranslation gets to 2000
Again, the same problem with the infobox and lead image, but there was a gallery that popped over and I was quite pleased with that. I'm glad to hear, thank you :) I published the article with no categories, because the categories didn't line up this time as they did in the Spanish-Dutch case. Yes - categories adaptation works only if directly corresponding category pages can be found in both languages. We may make it smarter in the not-so-far future. Thinking over my experience, I would prefer you incorporate the Wikidata item info to build the infobox, rather than the source article. Using Wikidata for infoboxes would be ideal, of course. This requires better adaptation of infoboxes to Wikidata, and this must be done by the communities, but some work is being done in that direction. I was working on a painting, but a generic biography infobox has already been done with the PrepBio tool (from Magnus) so you could use that: https://tools.wmflabs.org/magnustools/prepbio.php Thanks, I'll consider it. (We are already using another tool by Magnus in the dashboard, if you haven't noticed ;) ) -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2015-06-06 20:28 GMT+03:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Thanks for your thoughtful answerrs, which are certainly enlightening. I tried it again today, this time to translate an article from English to Dutch. Again, the same problem with the infobox and lead image, but there was a gallery that popped over and I was quite pleased with that. I published the article with no categories, because the categories didn't line up this time as they did in the Spanish-Dutch case. Thinking over my experience, I would prefer you incorporate the Wikidata item info to build the infobox, rather than the source article. This would be a good trigger for people to update the Wikidata item should they notice any differences. I was working on a painting, but a generic biography infobox has already been done with the PrepBio tool (from Magnus) so you could use that: https://tools.wmflabs.org/magnustools/prepbio.php On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Hi Jane, Thanks for trying ContentTranslation and providing feedback. Replies inline. I decided to translate a short article from Spanish to English Currently the extension is configured for translation *from* English, but not *to* English. This will probably be changed soon to allow translation to English, but there will be a proper separate announcement about this. Then I tried to enable it for my 'Dutch userpage and got the extension up and running for Spanish-Dutch but couldn't find which link was the from link and the to link (a couple of tries and I got the dashboard up and running). The easiest ways to open the dashboard are: 1. Hovering over the Contributions link at the top personal bar and clicking Translations. 2. Opening the article that you want to translate and finding the language into which you want to translate in the interlanguage links list. (It's guessed automatically; for example, it's suposed to appear there if you selected it in ULS.) Then I found myself in the Visual editor It's not *the* VisualEditor, but *a* visual editor - a very simple WYSIWYG editor. (It's possible that in the future it will be *the* VisualEditor, but there's no solid plan for it yet.) There are several reasons for doing it this way, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Documentation/FAQ . and tried to wikify some text with no luck. It doesn't support wiki syntax, as explained above. It supports simple formatting and adding links (the links support is being rewritten right now to be more stable and intuitive). Because it is not supposed to be a full-fledged article editing environment, it only provides the most basic formatting tools. For full-fledged wikification you can use the wikitext editor or the VisualEditor, whichever you wish. I then clicked on one of the reference links and lost my work. This is definitely a bug! Usually references work pretty well. Sorry about that. Which article was it? I restarted the page and saved some basics, but was disappointed that there was no translation of the infobox or the image, which was what I was hoping for. We don't support infoboxes yet. It's very challenging technically, so for now we just ignore them, but we hope to have support for them in the future. Currently, ContentTranslation is mostly for the articles' prose, links, categories and images. It is supposed to support images. In fact, in the real-life demos that I'm doing it's the feature that experienced Wikipedians usually love the most. Unfortunately, it cannot support an image that is a part of an infobox.
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikimedia-l] ContentTranslation gets to 2000
Hoi, What does it take for the WMF to provide continued support for important tools like Apertium ? If there is one movement that will benefit from development of Apertium it is ours.. Thanks, GerardM On 1 May 2015 at 15:57, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Amir, First of all a big thank you as a speaker of Catalan and fervent advocate of minoritary languages. OTOH, I would like to bring awareness to the topic of translation engine. Apertium is no longer supported as a GsoC project, I guess the project will keep alive but it worries me that downstream we reap the benefits without considering that the upstream projects might need support too. I wish that the conversation thread that was started long ago to support upstream projects also includes now open sourced translation tools because as your number show, they seem very relevant. Best regards, Micru On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: -Wikimedia-l Amir, this is awesome. Glad to see it's taking off. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 6:24 AM Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: * In all the Wikipedias in which ContentTranslation is deployed, it is currently defined as a Beta feature, which means that it is only available to logged-in users who opted into it in the preferences. Regarding Beta feature status: what would it take to enable this as a default? You mentioned this in plans for the coming months. That deletion rate (60 out of 2000 = 3%?) looks actually a lot better than pretty OK. According to historical stats, it's basically equivalent to deletion rates for article creators with more than a month of experience.[1] It seems like the only risk in taking this out of beta status as moving to a default is UI clutter for monolingual users who can't ever make use of the feature? Maybe it's unobtrusive enough that you don't need to do this, but perhaps you could enable as a default for only those users who have substantively edited more than one language edition of Wikipedia? Either that, or we could consider adding a languages I edit in section to the Internationalisation section of user preferences? I'm sure you've thought about this before, but I'd love to hear more about the rollout plan. 1. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_article_creation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikimedia-l] ContentTranslation gets to 2000
Amir, First of all a big thank you as a speaker of Catalan and fervent advocate of minoritary languages. OTOH, I would like to bring awareness to the topic of translation engine. Apertium is no longer supported as a GsoC project, I guess the project will keep alive but it worries me that downstream we reap the benefits without considering that the upstream projects might need support too. I wish that the conversation thread that was started long ago to support upstream projects also includes now open sourced translation tools because as your number show, they seem very relevant. Best regards, Micru On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: -Wikimedia-l Amir, this is awesome. Glad to see it's taking off. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 6:24 AM Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: * In all the Wikipedias in which ContentTranslation is deployed, it is currently defined as a Beta feature, which means that it is only available to logged-in users who opted into it in the preferences. Regarding Beta feature status: what would it take to enable this as a default? You mentioned this in plans for the coming months. That deletion rate (60 out of 2000 = 3%?) looks actually a lot better than pretty OK. According to historical stats, it's basically equivalent to deletion rates for article creators with more than a month of experience.[1] It seems like the only risk in taking this out of beta status as moving to a default is UI clutter for monolingual users who can't ever make use of the feature? Maybe it's unobtrusive enough that you don't need to do this, but perhaps you could enable as a default for only those users who have substantively edited more than one language edition of Wikipedia? Either that, or we could consider adding a languages I edit in section to the Internationalisation section of user preferences? I'm sure you've thought about this before, but I'd love to hear more about the rollout plan. 1. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_article_creation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikimedia-l] ContentTranslation gets to 2000
-Wikimedia-l Amir, this is awesome. Glad to see it's taking off. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 6:24 AM Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: * In all the Wikipedias in which ContentTranslation is deployed, it is currently defined as a Beta feature, which means that it is only available to logged-in users who opted into it in the preferences. Regarding Beta feature status: what would it take to enable this as a default? You mentioned this in plans for the coming months. That deletion rate (60 out of 2000 = 3%?) looks actually a lot better than pretty OK. According to historical stats, it's basically equivalent to deletion rates for article creators with more than a month of experience.[1] It seems like the only risk in taking this out of beta status as moving to a default is UI clutter for monolingual users who can't ever make use of the feature? Maybe it's unobtrusive enough that you don't need to do this, but perhaps you could enable as a default for only those users who have substantively edited more than one language edition of Wikipedia? Either that, or we could consider adding a languages I edit in section to the Internationalisation section of user preferences? I'm sure you've thought about this before, but I'd love to hear more about the rollout plan. 1. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_article_creation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
