Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Daren Welsh]

>
> "Yes, we lack efficient and effective ways of cross-listing conversations"


This is something we would love to address in our organization. Between
email, chat, multiple wiki discussion/Flow pages, and issue trackers (like
Phabricator/GitHub/GitLab), it's difficult to ensure everyone is included
in the conversation and to prevent repetition across multiple conversations.

One approach we use in our wikis at NASA is to tag articles as "Related to"
other articles. Then we can have a query on each page showing everything
that is tagged as "Related to {{PAGENAME}}". We use Semantic MediaWiki for
this, but I'm sure many other approaches could provide similar
functionality. If Flow (or even core MW) could allow for a section of a
page to be tagged as "Related to" other articles, you could somewhat
automate linking. This would probably help people discover related
conversations.

Another idea I'll throw out there is something we have submitted to a few
grant proposals, called Wiki Conversations [1]. Basically, a tool allowing
users to "CC" a wiki, so the content is then "wikified" and linked to
related articles. So conversations like this one could be linked to the
Flow and Echo discussion pages.

Daren

[1] https://youtu.be/VacHe2f1hWA



On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> Yes, we lack efficient and effective ways of cross-listing conversations,
> which might be another use case for which the Collaboration team might
> engineer some solutions, possibly involving Echo and/or Flow. (:
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Rachel diCerbo 
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if the most effective place to have and follow conversations
> about
> > a product are on that product's page, rather than Lila's Talk page or
> > WM-L.
> >
> > The main page to talk about Echo notifications overall is here:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Echo_(Notifications)
> >
> > A particular problem is that that page is Flowized and I know that many
> > users prefer original Talk pages - but the RfC page  allows for Talk page
> > format. It's here:
> >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Cross-wiki_notifications
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday, November 15, 2015, Pine W  wrote:
> > > > The discussion about Flothat I referened is currently happening on
> > Lila's
> > > > talk page on Meta. Would you like to join the conversation there? The
> > > > discussion there might get more staff attention than Wikimedia-l. (I
> > hear
> > > a
> > > > number of staff avoid Wikimedia-l because they find the tone to be
> > > hostile
> > > > and/or because the volume is more than they can handle.)
> > >
> > > You really think the staff that dont follow wikimedia-l are going to
> > follow
> > > lila's talk page?
> > >
> > > --bawolff
> > > ___
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rachel diCerbo
> > Director of Community Engagement (Product)
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > Rdicerb (WMF) <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rdicerb_%28WMF%29
> > >
> > @a_rachel 
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> ___
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> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Rachel diCerbo]

I wonder if the most effective place to have and follow conversations about
a product are on that product's page, rather than Lila's Talk page or
WM-L.

The main page to talk about Echo notifications overall is here:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Echo_(Notifications)

A particular problem is that that page is Flowized and I know that many
users prefer original Talk pages - but the RfC page  allows for Talk page
format. It's here:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Cross-wiki_notifications


On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:

> On Sunday, November 15, 2015, Pine W  wrote:
> > The discussion about Flothat I referened is currently happening on Lila's
> > talk page on Meta. Would you like to join the conversation there? The
> > discussion there might get more staff attention than Wikimedia-l. (I hear
> a
> > number of staff avoid Wikimedia-l because they find the tone to be
> hostile
> > and/or because the volume is more than they can handle.)
>
> You really think the staff that dont follow wikimedia-l are going to follow
> lila's talk page?
>
> --bawolff
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 

Rachel diCerbo
Director of Community Engagement (Product)
Wikimedia Foundation
Rdicerb (WMF) 
@a_rachel 
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Pine W]

Yes, we lack efficient and effective ways of cross-listing conversations,
which might be another use case for which the Collaboration team might
engineer some solutions, possibly involving Echo and/or Flow. (:

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Rachel diCerbo 
wrote:

> I wonder if the most effective place to have and follow conversations about
> a product are on that product's page, rather than Lila's Talk page or
> WM-L.
>
> The main page to talk about Echo notifications overall is here:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Echo_(Notifications)
>
> A particular problem is that that page is Flowized and I know that many
> users prefer original Talk pages - but the RfC page  allows for Talk page
> format. It's here:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Cross-wiki_notifications
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, November 15, 2015, Pine W  wrote:
> > > The discussion about Flothat I referened is currently happening on
> Lila's
> > > talk page on Meta. Would you like to join the conversation there? The
> > > discussion there might get more staff attention than Wikimedia-l. (I
> hear
> > a
> > > number of staff avoid Wikimedia-l because they find the tone to be
> > hostile
> > > and/or because the volume is more than they can handle.)
> >
> > You really think the staff that dont follow wikimedia-l are going to
> follow
> > lila's talk page?
> >
> > --bawolff
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Rachel diCerbo
> Director of Community Engagement (Product)
> Wikimedia Foundation
> Rdicerb (WMF)  >
> @a_rachel 
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Brian Wolff]

On Sunday, November 15, 2015, Pine W  wrote:
> The discussion about Flothat I referened is currently happening on Lila's
> talk page on Meta. Would you like to join the conversation there? The
> discussion there might get more staff attention than Wikimedia-l. (I hear
a
> number of staff avoid Wikimedia-l because they find the tone to be hostile
> and/or because the volume is more than they can handle.)

You really think the staff that dont follow wikimedia-l are going to follow
lila's talk page?

--bawolff
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Pine W]

It's worth a try. In any case the person who seems to be making the
decisions is Lila, and since a conversation started on her talk page it
seems reasonable to me to keep it there. She can move it if she wishes.

Pine

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Brian Wolff  wrote:

> On Sunday, November 15, 2015, Pine W  wrote:
> > The discussion about Flothat I referened is currently happening on Lila's
> > talk page on Meta. Would you like to join the conversation there? The
> > discussion there might get more staff attention than Wikimedia-l. (I hear
> a
> > number of staff avoid Wikimedia-l because they find the tone to be
> hostile
> > and/or because the volume is more than they can handle.)
>
> You really think the staff that dont follow wikimedia-l are going to follow
> lila's talk page?
>
> --bawolff
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Rachel diCerbo]

Thank you for the update!

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <
nwil...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi, this is an update on the work we in the Collaboration team are
> doing. Our focus is on cross-wiki notifications and other back-end
> improvements to that system.
>
> Our long-term goals are to make various improvements to the Notification
> system.
>
> Notifications are at the core of many different on-wiki activities.
> Making notifications easy to find and use can help those processes. We
> are focusing our immediate plans on supporting cross-wiki
> notifications. These will help editors stay informed about the changes
> they care about on every Wikimedia project on which they work. This is
> especially important for the editors who work on more than one wiki.
> Examples include if you upload to Commons, curate on Wikidata, or edit
> in two or more languages.
>
> The team has spent the last few weeks researching the existing and
> proposed features. This has included examining existing tools such as
> Crosswatch. We've been considering the problems of:
>
> * technical performance (scaling the requests across 800+ wikis),
> * user preferences (both existing and desired),
> * user interface design possibilities (how it should work),
> * how to release an initial, user-testable version for feedback and
> improvement, and
> * how to measure the impact of the project (reducing the time it takes
> to process a notification).
>
> We are also doing user research via 1-on-1 interviews. In these we ask
> active editors about their current notification usage and pain-points.
> Using a prototype we are evolving, we get feedback on directions to
> take the design.
>
> == Details and further reading ==
> You can read more about the technical details at:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Cross-wiki_notifications
> .
>
> Some of the new backend improvements to Echo:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107823 ("Rewrite
> EchoNotificationFormatter") and linked tasks.
>
> User preference options are:
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117670 ("Define Cross-wiki
> Notifications settings")
>
> User interface design possibilities cover several questions. For
> example, how should cross-wiki notifications look within the pop-up?
> How and when should we add enhancements to the Special:Notifications
> page to filter things? We are drafting and discussing these in:
>
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114357 (Clarifications to the
> currently confusing "primary/secondary" link, and proposed future
> enhancements)
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114356 (Bundled notifications)
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115264 (Controlling notification
> 'volume' based on the type or location)
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115845 (Clearer use of the
> notification badges (coloured number in personal toolbar))
> * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115316 (Better organization of
> the Special:Notifications page)
>
> Note: Most of these are not part of the cross-wiki notifications
> feature. We won't for sure roll all these out together with the main
> change.
>
> We started user research at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114086
> and it continues at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T116741 . (Note:
> You can sign-up as a volunteer at https://wikimedia.org/research .)
>
> A user-testable release is still just in planning. We decided on a
> Beta Feature on each wiki as the most scalable and least confusing of
> all the do-able options. Read our plans in
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114237 ("Present cross-wiki
> notifications as a beta feature to users"). This will help users to
> try the feature anytime, disabling it if it interferes with their work
> in some context, and easily suggest how the tool could be improved.
>
> There is no system for users having or setting cross-wiki preferences.
> Waiting to building this would take a long time. For now, we plan to
> let you enable the Beta Feature at each wiki on which you want to test
> it. This will let you have a small-scale Beta Feature that you can all
> try out. We will be able to discover bugs, edge-cases, iterate more,
> and get even more feedback. Later, when we know what features you
> need, we can build such a cross-wiki preferences system (including the
> task linked above).
>
> Whilst you wait, we would love to hear your feedback on the above.
> What comments, what design ideas, and what technical concerns do you
> have? Please tell us on the linked tasks if you can.
>
> I'll send further updates, when the planned Beta Feature is about to be
> ready.
>
> On behalf of the Collaboration team, thank you to everyone who has
> given your help already.
>
> --
> Nick Wilson / Quiddity
>
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>



-- 

Rachel diCerbo

Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Update about on-going work on Notifications, especially cross-wiki notifications

[Niharika Kohli]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for this update. I was wondering if cross-wiki watchlists are also
something on the Collaboration team roadmap (since you mentioned examining
Crosswatch)?

Cheers.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Rachel diCerbo 
wrote:

> Thank you for the update!
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Nick Wilson (Quiddity) <
> nwil...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi, this is an update on the work we in the Collaboration team are
> > doing. Our focus is on cross-wiki notifications and other back-end
> > improvements to that system.
> >
> > Our long-term goals are to make various improvements to the Notification
> > system.
> >
> > Notifications are at the core of many different on-wiki activities.
> > Making notifications easy to find and use can help those processes. We
> > are focusing our immediate plans on supporting cross-wiki
> > notifications. These will help editors stay informed about the changes
> > they care about on every Wikimedia project on which they work. This is
> > especially important for the editors who work on more than one wiki.
> > Examples include if you upload to Commons, curate on Wikidata, or edit
> > in two or more languages.
> >
> > The team has spent the last few weeks researching the existing and
> > proposed features. This has included examining existing tools such as
> > Crosswatch. We've been considering the problems of:
> >
> > * technical performance (scaling the requests across 800+ wikis),
> > * user preferences (both existing and desired),
> > * user interface design possibilities (how it should work),
> > * how to release an initial, user-testable version for feedback and
> > improvement, and
> > * how to measure the impact of the project (reducing the time it takes
> > to process a notification).
> >
> > We are also doing user research via 1-on-1 interviews. In these we ask
> > active editors about their current notification usage and pain-points.
> > Using a prototype we are evolving, we get feedback on directions to
> > take the design.
> >
> > == Details and further reading ==
> > You can read more about the technical details at:
> >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Cross-wiki_notifications
> > .
> >
> > Some of the new backend improvements to Echo:
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107823 ("Rewrite
> > EchoNotificationFormatter") and linked tasks.
> >
> > User preference options are:
> > * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117670 ("Define Cross-wiki
> > Notifications settings")
> >
> > User interface design possibilities cover several questions. For
> > example, how should cross-wiki notifications look within the pop-up?
> > How and when should we add enhancements to the Special:Notifications
> > page to filter things? We are drafting and discussing these in:
> >
> > * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114357 (Clarifications to the
> > currently confusing "primary/secondary" link, and proposed future
> > enhancements)
> > * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114356 (Bundled notifications)
> > * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115264 (Controlling notification
> > 'volume' based on the type or location)
> > * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115845 (Clearer use of the
> > notification badges (coloured number in personal toolbar))
> > * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115316 (Better organization of
> > the Special:Notifications page)
> >
> > Note: Most of these are not part of the cross-wiki notifications
> > feature. We won't for sure roll all these out together with the main
> > change.
> >
> > We started user research at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114086
> > and it continues at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T116741 . (Note:
> > You can sign-up as a volunteer at https://wikimedia.org/research .)
> >
> > A user-testable release is still just in planning. We decided on a
> > Beta Feature on each wiki as the most scalable and least confusing of
> > all the do-able options. Read our plans in
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114237 ("Present cross-wiki
> > notifications as a beta feature to users"). This will help users to
> > try the feature anytime, disabling it if it interferes with their work
> > in some context, and easily suggest how the tool could be improved.
> >
> > There is no system for users having or setting cross-wiki preferences.
> > Waiting to building this would take a long time. For now, we plan to
> > let you enable the Beta Feature at each wiki on which you want to test
> > it. This will let you have a small-scale Beta Feature that you can all
> > try out. We will be able to discover bugs, edge-cases, iterate more,
> > and get even more feedback. Later, when we know what features you
> > need, we can build such a cross-wiki preferences system (including the
> > task linked above).
> >
> > Whilst you wait, we would love to hear your feedback on the above.
> > What comments, what design ideas, and what technical concerns do you
> > have? Please tell us on the linked