[Wikitech-l] Re: Feature idea: data structure to improve translation capabilities
Hi, On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 2:49 AM Wolter HV wrote: > Thanks, this is interesting too, though this project doesn't seem to > decouple meanings from words, so automatic translations don't work with it > (as far as I could see from my short snoop-around.) > I’m not sure what you mean with “decouple meanings from words”. Sure, lexemes themselves do not have DefinedMeaning entries like OmegaWiki does, but note this is a part of Wikidata, and lexeme senses are linked with main-namespace Wikidata items using the “item for this sense” (P5137) property. See e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L10984 linking the “point of entry to an enclosed space” sense to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q53060 and also to the corresponding lexemes in other language(s), in this case, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L406305#S1 HTH, -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
[Wikitech-l] Re: Feature idea: data structure to improve translation capabilities
[2021-06-23 10:56 +0100] petr: > Hi! Hi! Thanks for your reply. > Yeah, for something like fifteen years, I guess… :-) See e.g. OmegaWiki > (formerly known as WiktionaryZ). OmegaWiki is, if not exactly, astoundingly near what I was proposing. It links words to meanings and automatically derives translations from that, which is the main feature I was looking for. It also supports linking words with one another with different relationships like hypo- and hypernimic. I wonder why it isn't more popular. > The modern incarnation of machine-readable dictionary is the > Lexicographical Data project on Wikidata. It is a nice project, definitely > go take a look at it, but it is not really an evolution/improvement of > Wiktionary but rather a fresh start. (Among other reasons because of the > license incompatibility of Wiktionary’s CC-BY-SA with Wikidata’s CC-0.) See > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Lexicographical_data Thanks, this is interesting too, though this project doesn't seem to decouple meanings from words, so automatic translations don't work with it (as far as I could see from my short snoop-around.) I'll stick to OmegaWiki and hopefully add my grain of salt to it. Thanks for bringing that to the conversation! Regards, Wolter HV ___ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
[Wikitech-l] Re: Feature idea: data structure to improve translation capabilities
Hi! On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 11:05 AM Wolter HV wrote: > [2021-06-20 17:43 +0100] John: > > Off hand isn’t this something that wikidata was setup to handle? > > I'm not sure, but I don't see the functionality currently being there in > Wiktionary. Is this something currently under development? > Yeah, for something like fifteen years, I guess… :-) See e.g. OmegaWiki (formerly known as WiktionaryZ). The modern incarnation of machine-readable dictionary is the Lexicographical Data project on Wikidata. It is a nice project, definitely go take a look at it, but it is not really an evolution/improvement of Wiktionary but rather a fresh start. (Among other reasons because of the license incompatibility of Wiktionary’s CC-BY-SA with Wikidata’s CC-0.) See https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Lexicographical_data -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
[Wikitech-l] Re: Feature idea: data structure to improve translation capabilities
[2021-06-20 17:43 +0100] John: > Off hand isn’t this something that wikidata was setup to handle? I'm not sure, but I don't see the functionality currently being there in Wiktionary. Is this something currently under development? Regards, Wolter HV ___ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
[Wikitech-l] Re: Feature idea: data structure to improve translation capabilities
[2021-06-20 17:39 +0100] Wolter HV: > You can find the script attached. To experiment with this, simply run > > .read feature_showcase.sql > > within an interactive sqlite3 session. (There may be other ways of doing it > but this is how I tested it.) I found out, unsurprisingly, that my attachment didn't make it into the mailing list :D Here is a pastebin link with the aforementioned sqlite3 SQL script: https://paste.gnome.org/pca7e7y0v Regards, Wolter HV ___ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
[Wikitech-l] Re: Feature idea: data structure to improve translation capabilities
Off hand isn’t this something that wikidata was setup to handle? On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 12:40 PM Wolter HV wrote: > Hello, > > I have been thinking of a way to organise data in Wiktionary that would > allow > for words to automatically show translations to other languages with much > less > work than is currently required. > > Currently, translations to other languages have to be added manually, > meaning > they are not automatically propagated across language pairs. What I mean > by > this is showcased in the following example: > > 1. I create a page for word X in language A. > 2. I create a page for word Y in language B. > 3. I add a translation to the page for word X, and state that it > translates to > word Y in language B. > 4. If I want the page for word Y to show that it translates to word X in > language A, I have to do this manually. > > Automating this seems a bit tricky. I think that the key is acknowledging > that > meanings can be separated from language and used as the links of > translation. > In this view, words and their definitions are language-specific, but > meanings > are language-agnostic. > > Because I may have done a bad job at explaining this context, I have > created a > short example in the form of an sqlite3 SQL script that creates a small > dictionary database with two meanings for the word "desert"; one of the > meanings has been linked to the corresponding words in Spanish and in > German. > The script mainly showcases how words can be linked across languages with > minimal rework. > > You can find the script attached. To experiment with this, simply run > > .read feature_showcase.sql > > within an interactive sqlite3 session. (There may be other ways of doing > it > but this is how I tested it.) > > I believe this system can also be used to automate other word relations > such as > hyponyms and hypernyms, meronyms and holonyms, and others. It can also > allow > looking up words in other languages and getting definitions in the > language of > choice. In short, it would allow Wiktionary to more effortlessly function > as > a universal dictionary. > > Has something like this been suggested before? I would be pleased to > receive > feedback on this idea. > > With kind regards, > Wolter HV > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list -- wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikitech-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikitech-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
