Re: [WISPA] Trango partners

2005-11-09 Thread Tom DeReggi
I was one of the original supporters of developing channels, for better 
local availabilty and terms. But times have changed. Its not that I don't 
believe in sales channels, and loyalty between them, but loyalty needs to 
work both directions.  The purpose of sales channels is to increase volume 
of sales, not deter them. I don't know about you guys but, the majority of 
the solicitation and marketing that I got from the STARs was pitching 
Motorola and/or Alvarion gear. Why should Trango continue sending their 
customers to a VAR that doesn't show reciprocate loyalty, and just tries to 
sell the buyer something else? As much as I'd like to support the hard 
working channels, I'd argue that they may have been responsible for blowing 
their opportunity to sell the product, by their own actions.  (understand 
that my comment is a generalization and may not apply to all STARs).


Also, in todays market what value is it really for a third party to stock 
inventory? It was important for small WISPs (like us) 4 years ago, when 
radio costs were high, and CPEs had 1 year ROIs.  WISPs couldn't afford to 
stock volume. But today, with $250 CPEs, (and possibly going even lower), 
and consolidated short range / long range models, there aren't many WISPs 
that can't afford to keep their own stock.  Come'on a 25 pack is only 
$6,200.  And if that is to much, we have found that WISPs are usually 
neighbor friendly, we commonly  lend / borrow gear to/from our neighbor 
WISPs, when in a pinch waiting for orders.


The only issue I see with Trango going direct, is that many of the smaller 
WISPs rely on terms extended from various distributers. Its not going to 
effect us, because we graduated that stage, with recent financing. But what 
we used to do is alternate distributors month for cash flow reasons. For 
example, $5000 with two vendors equalled a $10,000 credit line. And if one 
stagger orders monthly, it allows you to double your time to install links 
and collect payment, based on the fact that it would take a week for new 
stock to arrive after order placed.  Basically, let you take full advantage 
of net 30, instead of paying 15 days out, and trying to forcast which type 
of radios you may need. Thats helpful, when order values exceed a typical 
credit card line.  But again, financing may be less of an issue for WISPs 
with the lower cost CPEs.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango partners


if you have the skill to install and program it, no benefit - from my 
experience. about all that happens is if you are silly enough to mention a 
competitor, they'll immediately go to sell to them.. Middle men as just as 
aggressive and have no sense of loyalty, so I applaud Trango going direct. 
Anything a reseller can do I can do myself. That isn't the case for many 
newcomers - so they should look to resellers to help get their business 
going. However, they should never think they have a 'relationship' with 
the reseller other than buying stuff at as high a price as the reseller 
can get from them. I feel badly for resellers. Remember the old Apple in 
and out of direct, resellers, wholesalers, etc.. its the same with WiFi.. 
Moto keeps their prices high by 'controlling' the product sales - I'm 
hoping Trango and others kick the market into a more competitive gear.


just my 2 cents.

George wrote:

Yeah but, you maybe don't remember when the argument was the other way. 
Trango was screwing us by jacking the prices so they could offer VAR's an 
oportunity to sell us gear.


The only Trango I use at this point is 900 and I sure wish it was 
cheaper. And hopefully buying direct will get the price down.


After all, what benefit did we get having to buy from a middleman?

George



JohnnyO wrote:


Yeah - Trango decided to once again cut the throats of the people who
have worked so hard to build their sales in the US. They have decided to
let customers go direct with them and cut the hard working salespeople /
vendors outta the picture.. I suppose they think they'll increase
their profits this way - But when it's all said and done - they will
learn a very harsh lesson about loyalty.

JohnnyO



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:31 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Trango partners


Anyone know the story on Trango partners? First, DoubleRadius cut the 
prices on all their inventory. Now, I noticed Trango doesn't list any 
domestic partners on their site anymore.


-Matt





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Re: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me

2005-11-09 Thread Bob Moldashel
Hey!!   Don't ever post a picture like this again without a warning!!  I 
think I'm going to be scarred for life!


2 guys in a hot tub alone with alcoholHum. That's a recipe 
for disaster! 

Looks like Mike isn't taking any chances drinking that Diet 
Pepsi...   :-P


-B-







Mac Dearman wrote:



 You wouldnt believe how hard we are really working down here in Ft. 
Lauderdale, Florida. I hired Mike Delp to come out and help with the 
climbing  - - - and as you can see he is earning his pay :-P




Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell






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Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me

2005-11-09 Thread Al Grantier

hahahahah  that is funny a little rub a dub
- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me


Hey!!   Don't ever post a picture like this again without a warning!!  I 
think I'm going to be scarred for life!


2 guys in a hot tub alone with alcoholHum. That's a recipe 
for disaster! 

Looks like Mike isn't taking any chances drinking that Diet 
Pepsi...   :-P


-B-







Mac Dearman wrote:



 You wouldnt believe how hard we are really working down here in Ft. 
Lauderdale, Florida. I hired Mike Delp to come out and help with the 
climbing  - - - and as you can see he is earning his pay :-P




Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me

2005-11-09 Thread dustin jurman
That was not right!

DSJ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 10:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Florida job is killing me


  You wouldnt believe how hard we are really working down here in Ft. 
Lauderdale, Florida. I hired Mike Delp to come out and help with the
climbing  - - - and as you can see he is earning his pay :-P

 

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell
-- 


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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread John Thomas
Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since that is 
802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted away from 
the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that will 
do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand for 
a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic synchronization 
with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing and 
considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648












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RE: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Butch Evans
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005, Charles Wu wrote:

Electricity, Gas and Water are billed on a usage basis

Competitive market pressures aside, why should Internet be any
different?

Charles,
I don't often find myself in total disagreement with your
statements.  I am on this point, however.  Well, maybe not total,
but close.  The RBOCs and cableops are working hard to commoditize
the internet connection.  There are efforts on the part of many
municipalities to do the same.  Your city is doing this now.  I am
not sure there is anything we can do to sway the tide that seems
to be driven partly by the RBOCs and others, but I don't agree that
internet access fits the same class of service as the utilities
you mentioned.

For example, electricity, gas and water are items that are needed
for basic survival in the city.  Granted, these services have not
always been available, but it is expected by all Americans that if
they move somewhere, they can get those services.  Most people would
not survive without these services.  Tell me how internet access
fits that description.

Internet access is something that is NOT required for basic
necessities.  It IS something that most businesses can't do without.
With that in mind, why do you compare it to these other utilities?
I will do ok if the internet access business dries up.  I provide
other services that don't require me to even sell internet access.
These services work over any high speed connection.  One business
feeds the other.

NOW, to answer your original question: I think the question is
framed wrong.  I don't see us EVER getting to the point where we,
the network operator, will be paying for transports with
origination fees or termination fees, as the telcos are doing
now.  Perhaps I missed the point of this conversation, as I have not
read all the posts, but I just don't believe it will ever get there.

-- 
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)

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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread Tom DeReggi

Sounds good. Let me know when you get em made!

I like the idea of DC reboot devices over AC reboot devices anyway. 

 
Tom DeReggi

RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot


Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since that is 
802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted away from 
the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that will 
do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand for 
a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic synchronization 
with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing and 
considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648












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RE: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Charles Wu
snip
For example, electricity, gas and water are items that are needed for basic
survival in the city.  Granted, these services have not always been
available, but it is expected by all Americans that if they move somewhere,
they can get those services.  Most people would not survive without these
services.  Tell me how internet access fits that description.
/snip

Is it not generally expected that Internet access be available in a similar
manner?  If not today, what about 5-10 years from now

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 


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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread RickG
I agree with George. Internet access is practically a necessity now,
especially for businesses. It wont be much longer and broadband will
be expected in order to do any kind of business. It may not be for
survival of your life, but certainly it will hurt you financially.

On 11/9/05, Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
 For example, electricity, gas and water are items that are needed for basic
 survival in the city.  Granted, these services have not always been
 available, but it is expected by all Americans that if they move somewhere,
 they can get those services.  Most people would not survive without these
 services.  Tell me how internet access fits that description.
 /snip

 Is it not generally expected that Internet access be available in a similar
 manner?  If not today, what about 5-10 years from now

 -Charles

 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com


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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Tom DeReggi

Without electricity, you are blind or get heat stroke.
Without gas (propaine /natural), you freeze to death.
Without water, you dehydrate or get desease (no bathing).
All above things considered necessities, up there with food.
People could die without them.

TV, Phone, Internet on the other hand are luxeries, things that people rely 
on, but would survive if they did without.  I've never seen someone die from 
TV/Phone/Internet with drawal, although you never know it could happen. 
There is however financial benefits of having those luxeries, and there are 
general safety benefits of having the above.


The way to tell the difference is to see how much someone will pay for 
something. Leave someone in the desert heat for a week, and then see how 
much they'll pay you for the last bottle of water.  If its a matter of life 
or death they'd pay thousands.  When someones electricity goes out in the 
winter, they won't even flinch at going to a hotel for a night or two at 
$150 a night.


But then tell a consumer you have a $300 setup fee for their residential 
Broadband wireless service and see how quick they hang up the phone on you! 
If a consumer doesn't put a high value on a service, then it is NOT a 
necessity.  NObody has ever refused to pay $150 a month for an electric 
bill, why are they so resistent to pay $50 a month for a residential 
Internet service?  Because it is NOT a necessity.  There is a big 
difference, it may however become a COMMODITY. Something that someone 
expects to have cheap and widely available. But a commodity is in no way a 
necessity.


So I in know believe INternet/phone/and TV should be in the same catagory as 
necessities like utilities.. But I do believe that the world increases its 
standards as life and technology progresses. Why settle for the minimum? 
People WILL demand things basic communication rights, like 
TV/Phone/Internet.  Not because its a necessity, but becaues its a luxury 
that no one should be without based on the high standard of living that the 
US life has made possible. A simple question is asked, why shouldn't every 
person in America have complete communications? What barrier could possibly 
justify not being able to accomplish it?  Withholding something that is 
easilly deliverable is just plain evil.  The technology is here today to 
offer universal broadband and communications, so people will not except not 
having it.


So yes Charles I agree, in 5-10 years, people will expect to have it as a 
commodity, wether it is a necessity such as heat,water,electric, is 
irrelevant.


My answer is the battle to to prove to the world it is NOT a commodity. It 
is a service that has value and a service worth paying for.  I still 
remember when I paid $500 a month for my ISDN for a two man office.  I 
believe broadband is worth as much if not more than a phone or a television 
service.  Even if someone is poor or on welfare, they are likely to have a 
phone, cell phone, or TV, and they are finding a way to justify paying for 
it, even though it costs substantially more than Broadband for residential 
consumers. Why should broadband be less valuable?  Because there was 
competition at one time, that drove the price down. Something there wasn't 
much of in local phone or Cable TV services.


So my view is if governement want to fight for universal broadband for the 
rich/poor, urban/ rural, no problem, just don't devalue the service that has 
value.


I remember when my wife was on bed rest and she had to wear a monitor. There 
was no problem for the world to justify (insurance approved) why a remote 
monitoring system, was allowed to charge several hundred dollars a day, for 
the monitor service.  How would that person be able to do the monitoring 
without a phone or an internet connection?  Wouldn't you argue that the 
connection was a significant partner in delivering the solution? In ten 
years I can see every elderly person wearing a broadband enabled monitor of 
some sort. The applications are limitless. why shouldn't the connection have 
a value so much lower than the applications thatrely on the connection?


Universal coverage, is one issue we have to really be carefull about 
supporting.  Because then monopolies are going to be expected to serve those 
underserved areas.  And the markets won't be left open for small businesses 
to pursue.  ILECs resistence against using USF for its purpose, is one of 
the best things for leaving markets open for small ISPs.


I just read that Yale University was granted some HUGE (hundred millions) 
amount, from the governement to grant full scolarship to graduate level 
students studying in the music field.  The reason was the music field does 
not pay enough, to justify the college costs, and its important that the 
nation is not without good musicians. Thus money granted to cure a common 
problem for universal right to ahve education in all fields. It become 
improtant enough for the country to foot the bill. 

Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread A. Huppenthal
Its true, Internet is an option.There are lots of people in the valley 
here that never want it.
As to billing, paying per bit won't happen except for the Cellular 
companys who have per minute everything in place as it is.
You'd think that since telephone service was flat rate some time ago, 
you couldn't reverse the trend, but ah ha! If you
have something like cellular for Internet you can. The demand needs to 
overcome the view that you are being screwed
if you pay per bit. If its obvious you are being screwed something needs 
to be done.. Suspending that belief that's the result of compelling 
applications and great marketing and some peer pressure. Do you think 8 
to 18 year olds really give a damn if Dad is paying per bit or flat 
rate.. no way. IM just has to be there, all the time, and so does 
picture and video transfer.. ;-)


The core sales center for cellular isn't you any longer, its 8 to 18 
year olds. Its a bit different for fixed wireless.



Tom DeReggi wrote:


Without electricity, you are blind or get heat stroke.
Without gas (propaine /natural), you freeze to death.
Without water, you dehydrate or get desease (no bathing).
All above things considered necessities, up there with food.
People could die without them.

TV, Phone, Internet on the other hand are luxeries, things that people 
rely on, but would survive if they did without.  I've never seen 
someone die from TV/Phone/Internet with drawal, although you never 
know it could happen. There is however financial benefits of having 
those luxeries, and there are general safety benefits of having the 
above.


The way to tell the difference is to see how much someone will pay for 
something. Leave someone in the desert heat for a week, and then see 
how much they'll pay you for the last bottle of water.  If its a 
matter of life or death they'd pay thousands.  When someones 
electricity goes out in the winter, they won't even flinch at going to 
a hotel for a night or two at $150 a night.


But then tell a consumer you have a $300 setup fee for their 
residential Broadband wireless service and see how quick they hang up 
the phone on you! If a consumer doesn't put a high value on a service, 
then it is NOT a necessity.  NObody has ever refused to pay $150 a 
month for an electric bill, why are they so resistent to pay $50 a 
month for a residential Internet service?  Because it is NOT a 
necessity.  There is a big difference, it may however become a 
COMMODITY. Something that someone expects to have cheap and widely 
available. But a commodity is in no way a necessity.


So I in know believe INternet/phone/and TV should be in the same 
catagory as necessities like utilities.. But I do believe that the 
world increases its standards as life and technology progresses. Why 
settle for the minimum? People WILL demand things basic communication 
rights, like TV/Phone/Internet.  Not because its a necessity, but 
becaues its a luxury that no one should be without based on the high 
standard of living that the US life has made possible. A simple 
question is asked, why shouldn't every person in America have complete 
communications? What barrier could possibly justify not being able to 
accomplish it?  Withholding something that is easilly deliverable is 
just plain evil.  The technology is here today to offer universal 
broadband and communications, so people will not except not having it.


So yes Charles I agree, in 5-10 years, people will expect to have it 
as a commodity, wether it is a necessity such as heat,water,electric, 
is irrelevant.


My answer is the battle to to prove to the world it is NOT a 
commodity. It is a service that has value and a service worth paying 
for.  I still remember when I paid $500 a month for my ISDN for a two 
man office.  I believe broadband is worth as much if not more than a 
phone or a television service.  Even if someone is poor or on welfare, 
they are likely to have a phone, cell phone, or TV, and they are 
finding a way to justify paying for it, even though it costs 
substantially more than Broadband for residential consumers. Why 
should broadband be less valuable?  Because there was competition at 
one time, that drove the price down. Something there wasn't much of in 
local phone or Cable TV services.


So my view is if governement want to fight for universal broadband for 
the rich/poor, urban/ rural, no problem, just don't devalue the 
service that has value.


I remember when my wife was on bed rest and she had to wear a monitor. 
There was no problem for the world to justify (insurance approved) why 
a remote monitoring system, was allowed to charge several hundred 
dollars a day, for the monitor service.  How would that person be able 
to do the monitoring without a phone or an internet connection?  
Wouldn't you argue that the connection was a significant partner in 
delivering the solution? In ten years I can see every elderly person 
wearing a broadband enabled monitor of some sort. The 

Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread George

Tom DeReggi wrote:


TV, Phone, Internet on the other hand are luxeries, things that people 
rely on, but would survive if they did without.  I've never seen someone 
die from TV/Phone/Internet with drawal, although you never know it could 
happen.



Tom. You should rethink what you just said about you've never heard of 
anyone dying because of no phone or internet.


The phone absolutely has saved lives.

And people surely died that didn't get to one fast enough or could find one.

The internet on the other hand, I don't have to remind you that Mac and 
those hero wisp workers who bailed out people all across the gulf with 
voip and net sure proved that the net is more than a luxury.


As for tv, ok.


Sincerely

George
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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread Blair Davis

Very nice.  $695?!?!

I might be able to justify it in a few locations, but not for wide 
deployment.


We are looking for something we can deploy widely

Sub $100 price.  Sub $70 if I can manage it

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Blair

I think this will do what you need tell them Tony front Demarc sent you:
http://www.remotedatacom.com/pages/KABU.html 


Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-244-9068 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that will do what
I need and fit in the space allowed.

The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand for a unit
like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also decided to make it
available to others who might need it.

As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am asking for
additional ideas for features.

Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s) Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet Static IP with subnet and
gateway Programmable ping monitor for each relay Selectable 'keep alive'  /
'I am here' ping Adjustable power off delay Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change Programmable, repeatable
by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic synchronization with a
time server and might increase the costs)

One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing and
considerable legal liability.

The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648










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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Peter R.

Actually the internet is likes roads and education.
Without it, you are at a definite economic disadvantage.
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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread Ron Wallace
Yes, Blair

That does sound good, let us all know.  I second the vote for DC reboot 
devices.

 Original message 
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:49:43 -0500
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot  
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Sounds good. Let me know when you get em made!

I like the idea of DC reboot devices over AC reboot devices anyway. 

  
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: John Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot


 Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 
 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted away 
from 
 the Radio if one so chose to.
 
 John
 
 Blair Davis wrote:
 
 Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will 
 do what I need and fit in the space allowed.

 The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for 
 a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
 decided to make it available to others who might need it.

 As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
 asking for additional ideas for features.

 Specs:

 Hardware

 10baseT ethernet port for communication.
 1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
 Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
 Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
 Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
 Unit powered via 5-12VDC

 Software

 Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
 Static IP with subnet and gateway
 Programmable ping monitor for each relay
 Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
 Adjustable power off delay
 Adjustable power off time

 Several things I am undecided about adding are:

 Email notification of ping failure
 Email notification of power available status change
 Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
(this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization 
 with a time server and might increase the costs)

 One thing I will not add:

 Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and 
 considerable legal liability.

 The price should be under $100 each.

 Questions?

 Comments?

 Interest?

 -- 

 Blair Davis
 West Michigan Wireless ISP
 269-686-8648










 
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Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson St.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone:  (517) 547-8410
Mobile:  (517) 605-4542
e-mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, RickG wrote:

I agree with George. Internet access is practically a necessity
now, especially for businesses. It wont be much longer and
broadband will be expected in order to do any kind of business. It
may not be for survival of your life, but certainly it will hurt
you financially.

Sounds like you agree with what I said, too.  However, whether it is
a necessity or not does not make it a commodity item that has to
be available in ALL locations like water/gas/electricity. (Sewer
services do not extend into the county areas in most cases, for
example.)

-- 
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)

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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, Tom DeReggi wrote:

MAN...where do you find the time to write so much.  :-)

TV, Phone, Internet on the other hand are luxeries, things that
people rely on, but would survive if they did without.  I've never

You stated very eloquently what I was trying to say.  Thanks.

seen someone die from TV/Phone/Internet with drawal, although you

Some of my customers ought to read this line.  ;-)

never know it could happen.  There is however financial benefits of
having those luxeries, and there are general safety benefits of
having the above.

Yup.

So I in know believe INternet/phone/and TV should be in the same
catagory as necessities like utilities.. But I do believe that the
world increases its standards as life and technology progresses.

Right.  And so in 10 years, perhaps the rest of the network will
be built out (and the phone lines dug up) and ubiquitous coverage
will be possible.  This is not the case today, however.  This is
partly true because the SAME people (RBOCS) who sell DSL for $14.95
are charging sometimes exorbitant rates for T1 lines.

possible. A simple question is asked, why shouldn't every person in
America have complete communications? What barrier could possibly
justify not being able to accomplish it?  Withholding something

As to the first question, the answer is money.  For the second
question...money.

My answer is the battle to to prove to the world it is NOT a
commodity. It is a service that has value and a service worth
paying for.  I still remember when I paid $500 a month for my ISDN

AMEN!  Preach on!

So my view is if governement want to fight for universal broadband
for the rich/poor, urban/ rural, no problem, just don't devalue the
service that has value.

There is SO MUCH truth here!  This is the way the RBOCs are fighting
the war, too.  As I alluded to above, the RBOCs are attempting to
cut our feet from under us by underselling access to consumers and
then charging us enough to make it difficult (impossible in some
cases) to compete.

-- 
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)

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Re: [WISPA] NYCwireless Network Neutrality Broadband Challenge

2005-11-09 Thread Butch Evans
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, George wrote:

The phone absolutely has saved lives.

And people surely died that didn't get to one fast enough or could
find one.

I think you are missing the point, George.  In the right situation,
you could save a life with a roll of scotch tape.  That does not
mean that scotch tape is a life saving invention.  Well perhaps it
does mean that, but that would not make it a necessity of life.

The internet on the other hand, I don't have to remind you that Mac
and those hero wisp workers who bailed out people all across the
gulf with voip and net sure proved that the net is more than a
luxury.

The communications support provided by Mac and those who assisted
him is not really comparable to any normal situation.

As for tv, ok.

I'd have to agree 100% here.  :-)

-- 
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)

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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread John Thomas
DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and drop 
it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about $25, so I 
wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since that 
is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted away 
from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that will 
do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic synchronization 
with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648









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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread A. Huppenthal

let me know where you get them for $25

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted 
away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648











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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread John Thomas
OK, I exaggerated, compuplus has them for $36 each. My point was that he 
only needs half the circuit. Now that I think of it, I guess that as 
long as his device takes 5-12 volts in, you would only need a power 
reducer to use 48 volts up. It's a lot easir to get 48 volts to go 300 
feet than it is to get 5-12 volts 300 feet.


John

A. Huppenthal wrote:


let me know where you get them for $25

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted 
away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have 
also decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648













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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread A. Huppenthal

That's a good price. I paid nearly $50 each.


John Thomas wrote:

Actually, Online Micro has the DWL-P200 for $30 and it can do 5 or 12 
volts out the back.


John

A. Huppenthal wrote:


let me know where you get them for $25

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be 
mounted away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have 
also decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for 
testing and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648















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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread Blair Davis
Not quite.  The D-Link POE kit has a 48VDC power block with a DC-DC step 
down unit at the other end.


$25 doesn't sound too bad until you see the current hardware budget.  :(

--

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted 
away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have also 
decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648










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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread Blair Davis
We get them from DH for less than $30 but I don't remember the exact 
price off hand.


--

A. Huppenthal wrote:


That's a good price. I paid nearly $50 each.


John Thomas wrote:

Actually, Online Micro has the DWL-P200 for $30 and it can do 5 or 12 
volts out the back.


John

A. Huppenthal wrote:


let me know where you get them for $25

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be 
mounted away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a 
demand for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I 
have also decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for 
testing and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648
















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Re: [WISPA] IP based Remote Reboot

2005-11-09 Thread John Thomas
Right, my point here is that you don't need to do anything to make your 
system work with 48 volts. We just need to acquire a 48-12 volt convertor.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Not quite.  The D-Link POE kit has a 48VDC power block with a DC-DC 
step down unit at the other end.


$25 doesn't sound too bad until you see the current hardware budget.  :(

--

John Thomas wrote:

DLinks POE kits take 5 volts, bump it up to 48 across the wire and 
drop it back down to 5 volts at the other end. They list for about 
$25, so I wouldn't think it should cost you too much to do.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

John, I have considered it.  My only concern was that it might 
increase the final cost.  I will take another look at it.


Maybe where it can 'vampire' it's power off one of the switched 
circuits if the switched circuit is 48V POE?


The only bad thing about that is it will still require a 10/100 
network switch or such to connect it's communication port.




John Thomas wrote:

Blair, it might be a good idea to allow for 48 v powering, since 
that is 802.3af POE standard. This way your device could be mounted 
away from the Radio if one so chose to.


John

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I guess there is no reasonably priced unit out there that 
will do what I need and fit in the space allowed.


The comments on the list have shown me that there may be a demand 
for a unit like this.  I have decided to build my own.  I have 
also decided to make it available to others who might need it.


As part of this process, I am posting the planned specs and I am 
asking for additional ideas for features.


Specs:

Hardware

10baseT ethernet port for communication.
1-4 pair of RJ-45 pass thru jacks with lines 4 and 5 switched.
Each pass thru jack pair is independently switched
Relay(s) rated for up to 48VDC at 3A
Power available monitor for switched jack(s)
Unit powered via 5-12VDC

Software

Setup and controlled via web browser or telnet
Static IP with subnet and gateway
Programmable ping monitor for each relay
Selectable 'keep alive'  /  'I am here' ping
Adjustable power off delay
Adjustable power off time

Several things I am undecided about adding are:

Email notification of ping failure
Email notification of power available status change
Programmable, repeatable by time and date switching
   (this requires a real time clock and/or automatic 
synchronization with a time server and might increase the costs)


One thing I will not add:

Switching 110/220AC.  This would add many requirements for testing 
and considerable legal liability.


The price should be under $100 each.

Questions?

Comments?

Interest?

--

Blair Davis
West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648











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