[WISPA] Fiber Supplier

2006-01-19 Thread Scott Reed




Where do you guys get your fiber?  Looking for single mode or multi-mode, indoor, breakout, 12 strands.
Thanks.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 








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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Matt Liotta
18 pigtails don't cut with large dishes. Further, the loss on crap coax 
at 5.8Ghz is quite high even with short lengths. From a shear cost 
perspective there is little reason to use crap coax for short pigtails. 
Without cost being a major factor all the benefits of using quality coax 
start piling up.


-Matt

Travis Johnson wrote:

The whole idea is you mount the radio on the tower, and use a small 
(18 inch) pigtail. :)


Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:


Tom DeReggi wrote:

Required for FCC reuirement of unique connector rule.  PErsonally Ip 
refer them to stay as is with the connectors. That way they all stay 
the same and one cable to stock.


There are other connectors more robust than RP-SMA; it doesn't have 
to be N. RP-SMA is just too small to use with decent coax.


-Matt





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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Blair Davis
Anyone know if the Trango 5.8GHz ap's have an external antenna 
connection?  out here, 60deg sectors on an ap are a bit small



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269-686-8648

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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi

Travis,

I fully agree.

The 2.4Ghz product is one that we have not used yet, but one we will need to 
start using soon, based on the fact that we used all the 5.8 channels 
available at many cell sites. 5.3G is good for expanding cells if for the 
close in neighborhoods, but it just doesn't have the range needed for many 
master cell site type applications.  To get range, you need the 2.4Ghz 
product. As you have shown Travis, the 2.4Ghz product is somewhat of a last 
man standing 2.4Ghz product, and an excellent choice for WISPs.


My hope is that future development will follow suit.

The M5580 is not the single savior. Its possible that there may be range 
issues, and noise issues based on using OFDM, in some environments.  What I 
like about the M5580 is it gives us the opportunity/option to have excellent 
pricing for many new markets, that we'd never be able to touch without that 
price point. For example residential, low or Free install markets. OR WISP 
direct leasing. Its down tothe point where I could hold the lease for the 
end user equipment, worked into monthly payment based on low CPE cost. Doing 
the ROI on a spreadsheet, makes it a much safer model to get bank approval 
for financing for large scale growth.


For example, Trangos Press release lists Triple play. Doing 30 mbps in a 
small short range  community network, could accomplish that, and using a 
single smaller bandwidth backhaul to the site. Using Multicast and caching, 
the low bandwidth backhaul would be enough  to transport the Video to a 
community devcie that then fed the homes individually/directly over the 
higher capacity.



Then there is the 900mhz product


No comment based on my last scolding :-)

How many of your competitors will now switch and start installing Trango. 
:(


Good point. This where early entry into the market comes in. IF you are 
ready to go in a market, you are in a position to move faster and take the 
market share today, before the competitors starts. This is whats going to 
test, wether people that have the best broadcast sites, really have an 
advantage for long term success. This is what will challenge WISPS to offer 
good support, good pricing, anf fast expansion. Why would someone come to 
compete, if it looked like a loosing battle to compete against you?


The bigger issue is keeping consumers from buying the gear. A $150 is still 
in the price range for a residential build your own community thing.  Thats 
one of the reasons, its important for the AP cost not to drop to low. So its 
not in the end user price range.


The strategy should be, start buying lots of units, and making lots of 
sales, based on the new low price opportunity. Trango is taking care of us, 
because they want us to succeed, and increase our volume. Its sorta like the 
FCC giving us more leanient power rules, to see what we do with the 
opportunity. Do we abuse them or use them well?  Trango has to make a 
profit, and its likely that they's continue selling product for half the 
cost, if the volume did not increase. We need to grow our businesses, or 
they'll find people that will. So indirectly the pressure is on us, to give 
back, take advantage of the price point and grow our businesses. Thats the 
way I see it.  I think if we do it, they'll keep evolving their product to 
our needs.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history



Tom,

I agree with you 100%. However, there is still much to do the 5.8ghz 
product was only the first step... we are currently deploying 60-70 of the 
2.4ghz product per month... mainly because of the totally amazing distance 
(15-20 miles is a no brainer... 25-30 miles is possible with a grid 
antenna attached). We love the 2.4ghz product. Now we just need it 
cheaper... not $149... even $250ish would be great. :)


Then there is the 900mhz product the lifesaver if there ever was 
one... we now have over 400 customers deployed on 900mhz... customers that 
we would not have gotten without a 900mhz product on the market. Same with 
this product line... we need a $250ish CPE... :)


And, not to ruin the party on this thread, but you realize the downside is 
now every little mom and pop shop can now afford Trango? How many of your 
competitors will now switch and start installing Trango. :(


Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote:


I'm not sure if everyone really truly realizes what has just happened.
It took an hour or two for it to really sink in, I think I must have been 
in shock.


Last year when Betas were send out, they asked, how many we wanted to 
buy, before they shipped.

This year, they just sent them, and I wasn't told the price.
Was it sorta like a restaurant with no prices on the menu?
Send us the gear to see how nice it is, and then tell us 

Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Travis Johnson
Not sure what you mean. I have a 6ft dish, many 4ft dishes and over ten 
3ft dishes all hooked to Trango radios using 18 pigtails. No problems.


Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:

18 pigtails don't cut with large dishes. Further, the loss on crap 
coax at 5.8Ghz is quite high even with short lengths. From a shear 
cost perspective there is little reason to use crap coax for short 
pigtails. Without cost being a major factor all the benefits of using 
quality coax start piling up.


-Matt

Travis Johnson wrote:

The whole idea is you mount the radio on the tower, and use a small 
(18 inch) pigtail. :)


Travis
Microserv

Matt Liotta wrote:


Tom DeReggi wrote:

Required for FCC reuirement of unique connector rule.  PErsonally 
Ip refer them to stay as is with the connectors. That way they all 
stay the same and one cable to stock.


There are other connectors more robust than RP-SMA; it doesn't have 
to be N. RP-SMA is just too small to use with decent coax.


-Matt







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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Blair Davis

That is too bad

Since my biggest tower has less than 30 users, putting 6 $1000 ap's on 
one tower just doesn't make sense


On the other hand, putting 3 AP's with 120deg antennas on a tower is 
something I can justify.  (just in case some one is listening)



Travis Johnson wrote:

No, they do not. I've asked for that exact thing since 2001 and 
original 5800 AP's. I've heard there may be something coming 
however... ;)


Travis
Microserv

Blair Davis wrote:

Anyone know if the Trango 5.8GHz ap's have an external antenna 
connection?  out here, 60deg sectors on an ap are a bit small











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AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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RE: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread chris cooper
Sorry if I missed it somewhere- does this also include the 900Mhz
products?

chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

I'm not sure if everyone really truly realizes what has just happened.
It took an hour or two for it to really sink in, I think I must have
been in 
shock.

Last year when Betas were send out, they asked, how many we wanted to
buy, 
before they shipped.
This year, they just sent them, and I wasn't told the price.
Was it sorta like a restaurant with no prices on the menu?
Send us the gear to see how nice it is, and then tell us the big price
tag 
after we realized the advantages?
Think about it, Like a Fox, but will be able to do up to 30 mbps, cross 
platform supported!
They jsut released a Fox-D2 for the low price point model. The M5580 was

likely going to have a bigger price tag, if I guessed.
What was it going to be, $300, $400, $500?  When I heard $150 today, I
able 
shxt myself. I was blown away. I never expected it.

I remember three years ago, when everyone was talking about the 2 year
ROI 
on equipment, wishing that if they only had a $500 CPE! And one came,
thanks 
Trango. And then some people started getting greety and pushing the
limits, 
and said If we only had a $300 CPE. And sure enough it came. Thanks 
Trango.  (Also a few others like Tranzeo releasing 2.4Ghz for under
$150). 
Some jerks actually had the nerve to then say, if I only had a $150
CPE!. 
It just plain got rediculously funny at that point. Then Like Emeral
would 
say BAM! Trango did it agin, $150.  This is truly a defining
moment 
in history.  No NOT for a commodity WIFI product, not for a 2.4Ghz
product. 
But for a Commercial Robust WISP product! Equivellent to what we easilly

paid $500 for, less than a year ago.

I was lucky to share an experience this past October at a Trango
meeting. 
After the reception, some of us stuck around to hang out. We were all 
dreaming about what we needed, to be more successful and sell more
radios. 
Then out of nowhere Z gets all serious and asks What If...we had a
$200 
CPE? We respond, how much quantity would that take? 5000, 10,000? 
Instantly, Travis is like, at that price I'd commit to 5000, 1000 at a 
time. Then I was like, I'd take 500. Etc, etc.  Then we all realized
we 
were dreaming and drinking way to much wine, and called it a night.
CPEs 
were still $400 at that time, ya know. God what a poker face! I thought
Z 
was kidding!  And the irony in it all, quantity 10,000 is not required!
Just 
qty 30! And its only $150, not $200!  I just don't know what to say.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not going to be in the tech room 
tommorrow. I'm going to be in the marketing room, making new materials,
and 
crunching numbers.  Our business plan may have just changed overnight,
with 
this recent Press release. Think about the potential!  The residential 
market is going to be broken wide open, with this pricing.  If I didn't
have 
a box of M5580s sitting on my desk, I'd ask somebody to pinch me, to
make 
sure I wasn't dreaming.

Trango... Thanks!

PS. PLEASE, NOBODY SAY,  If I only had a CPE for $75, I don't think my

heart could take the results.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Travis Johnson

Yup. Those were my exact words 4 years ago directly to Trango.

Travis
Microserv

Blair Davis wrote:


That is too bad

Since my biggest tower has less than 30 users, putting 6 $1000 ap's on 
one tower just doesn't make sense


On the other hand, putting 3 AP's with 120deg antennas on a tower is 
something I can justify.  (just in case some one is listening)



Travis Johnson wrote:

No, they do not. I've asked for that exact thing since 2001 and 
original 5800 AP's. I've heard there may be something coming 
however... ;)


Travis
Microserv

Blair Davis wrote:

Anyone know if the Trango 5.8GHz ap's have an external antenna 
connection?  out here, 60deg sectors on an ap are a bit small













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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Matt Liotta

Travis Johnson wrote:

Not sure what you mean. I have a 6ft dish, many 4ft dishes and over 
ten 3ft dishes all hooked to Trango radios using 18 pigtails. No 
problems.


Well what can I say? You must just be smarter than our technicians who 
have found it really difficult to mount the radio that close to the big 
dishes. Having longer cables made the installs must faster and from the 
looks of it, better. Spending an extra couple of bucks on better coax to 
make installs faster and better was a pretty easy business decision for 
me. However, the LMR400 pigtails look rather silly on those SP-RMA 
connectors.


-Matt
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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Blair Davis
If they were able to ship me some 120deg ap's in the next 30 days, I'd 
drop my planned Netstream 5.8GHz deployment and switch to Trango if 
anyone is listening :-)


Travis Johnson wrote:


Yup. Those were my exact words 4 years ago directly to Trango.

Travis
Microserv

Blair Davis wrote:


That is too bad

Since my biggest tower has less than 30 users, putting 6 $1000 ap's 
on one tower just doesn't make sense


On the other hand, putting 3 AP's with 120deg antennas on a tower is 
something I can justify.  (just in case some one is listening)



Travis Johnson wrote:

No, they do not. I've asked for that exact thing since 2001 and 
original 5800 AP's. I've heard there may be something coming 
however... ;)


Travis
Microserv

Blair Davis wrote:

Anyone know if the Trango 5.8GHz ap's have an external antenna 
connection?  out here, 60deg sectors on an ap are a bit small



















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Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Larry A Weidig
I second, third this motion and have contacted Trango regarding
this.  I have some towers where six AP's is fine, but I have a lot more
smaller locations where it is hard to justify 6 of them for a site.  I
certainly hope this changes so we can deploy these in smaller areas. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:10 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

That is too bad

Since my biggest tower has less than 30 users, putting 6 $1000 ap's on 
one tower just doesn't make sense

On the other hand, putting 3 AP's with 120deg antennas on a tower is 
something I can justify.  (just in case some one is listening)


Travis Johnson wrote:

 No, they do not. I've asked for that exact thing since 2001 and 
 original 5800 AP's. I've heard there may be something coming 
 however... ;)

 Travis
 Microserv

 Blair Davis wrote:

 Anyone know if the Trango 5.8GHz ap's have an external antenna 
 connection?  out here, 60deg sectors on an ap are a bit small








-- 
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re[2]: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Barry at Mutual Data
Hello Travis,

Well they do if the cover comes off..

:-)

Barry

Thursday, January 19, 2006, 10:01:18 AM, you wrote:

TJ No, they do not. I've asked for that exact thing since 2001 and original
TJ 5800 AP's. I've heard there may be something coming however... ;)

TJ Travis
TJ Microserv

TJ Blair Davis wrote:

 Anyone know if the Trango 5.8GHz ap's have an external antenna 
 connection?  out here, 60deg sectors on an ap are a bit small






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RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

2006-01-19 Thread Kurt Fankhauser
Is foliage a problem in your area? Sounds like your using a lot of 900
gear. If foliage is not a problem you might want to look at 2.4 or
possibly 5.7 gear.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

Our network is currently made up of

Raylink FHSS
Trango 900
Raylink/Brilan DSSS
Alvarion 900
Trango Link-10

All in all we have had pretty good luck with all of the above once the
bugs
were worked out. The real workhorse of our network is Raylink FHSS but
we
are starting to move away from it due to the bandwidth limitations of
FHSS.
The raylink/brilan DSSS works fairly well but has some minor irritations
with regards to signal strength readouts and I am concerned about future
updates and upgrades from them.

The alvarion 900 works well but is a pain to install.

Trango 900 works well also but offers no indoor installation options and
cpe
costs are still high.

We are going to be setting up a few new pops this year and I would like
to
try out some new equipment, hopefully something that would work out well
enough to use for upgrading our existing network as time goes by.

I have looked into MT and StarOS due to the ability to be able to keep
the
equipment upgraded with software updates and if needed completely
replace
the software in the future using the same hardware. I also like the
thought
of having one platform that I could use for 2.4, 5.x and 900 in the
future.
What I am worried about is going through the hassle of building out all
the
CPE's keeping the software up to date and the cost is not all that
great. I
also want something that is aesthetically pleasing, rootennas are not
all
that attractive. I am also looking for something to put up and forget
about.

Demarc stuff looks pretty nice and the price is not bad but I had heard
of
some reliability issues in the past, they may have all been taken care
of by
now though. I also had a hard time getting a hold of anyone there in the
past when I was considering making a purchase. This may have changed
also
its been a while since I called.

Canopy looks attractive do to the one brand all bands and the pricing is
tolerable. I am not sure I like being stuck with Vert polarity, its
noisy
here and it kind of scares me going with proprietary equipment.

The Trango 2.4, not really sure why I put this down because it really
doesn't seem competitive cost wise. I am interested in what type of
performance people are getting out of them though and how they are doing
in
noisy environments. The 900 is not all that great when it is noisy in my
experience.

I am interested in the waverider for one particular residential area
that
would be very nice to have a preconfigured radio for someone to pick up
and
do a self install indoors. Getting rid of a truck roll and having to
have
something on the outside of the home.

Also looking for a backhaul to try besides the link-10 from trango.
Would
like to find something in the 5.8 band with similar throughputand
latency of
trango for the same or less $$. This is another reason I thought about
MT,
StarOs, Demarc stuff was for multiple radios on the same board so the AP
and
BH could be the same piece of hardware and software.

Just looking for some comments in general about the different options
and
why you did/didn't pick one over the other.

Thanks,
Chadd


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:33 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..


What are you using now? What are you trying to accomplish? The first 3
you list are all 802.11a/b/g the last 3 are all proprietary. There are
people on this list for every different system you just described, not
sure how many people have used them all. I have used StarOS, Mikrotik,
and Motorola 5.7 and 2.4




Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com



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RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

2006-01-19 Thread Chadd Thompson
We have a lot of fence rows in this area so 900 is going to be a necessary
evil like it or not. I tried using 5.7 Trango for a few installs early on
and just couldn't get any range out of it in this area, and the noise floor
is fairly high in 5.x around here. 

It seems like more and more people are starting up in this area all the time
and the noise floor continues to rise, I would like to find a solution that
does well in noisy environments and maybe even something that uses the
spectrum a bit more efficiently than standard 802.xx. 

Our FHSS has been great as far as noise has been concerned. We have had two
competitors come in and install DSSS 2.4 within a few blocks of our FHSS and
we never saw any difference. They have done installs shooting directly over
the top of our customers on the same polarity and again it just keeps
plugging along. The others in the area definitely don't give a hoot about us
and how could possible affect our service or customers so I need to do what
it takes to keep our network as robust as possible. I wouldn't mind sticking
with FHSS but I just don't see it giving us room to stretch our legs as
customers expect faster and faster connections.

It is starting to work out for us though because we are starting to get
calls from their customers inquiring about switching over to our service
based off of recommendations from their neighbors.

Thanks,
Chadd

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:02 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

Is foliage a problem in your area? Sounds like your using a lot of 900
gear. If foliage is not a problem you might want to look at 2.4 or
possibly 5.7 gear.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com



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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi
I don't think Trangos new lower price was to wipe out StarOs. IF an intent 
was there to wipe someone out, I'd say more likely, it would be Canopy. But 
I don't even think that intent was the purpose.. Giving WISPs better prices 
helps them grow their businesses, and compete with the commodity huge volume 
competitors. Trango wants large volume and sees the potential a low cost CPE 
can do to acheive that.  StarOS/Mikrotik systems, still have their 
advantages for many purposes. For example, flexibilty, routing, and 
multi-radio units, Mesh, etc. With Mini-PCI 900 comming more applications 
will arise. Smaller cells don't necessarilly require Polling systems to 
perform well.


But for Trango WISPs. This low CPE pricing is a tremendous advantage. Its is 
an advantage for any WISPs that uses a master cell site model, and wants to 
deploy quickly wide scale without the hassle of piecing togeather the 
equipment, and/or does not have the staff with the expertise of putting the 
gear togeather.  With Trango you just take it out of the box and go.  With a 
consistent interface through the product line.


Well I might have been a little quick on the consistent interface, as the 
models do have little differences in syntax, but they are working to improve 
that.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history


Man if I only had a $75 CPE, I could...  Be dreaming?   Sorry, Tom, I had 
to

do that.

It's great to see a decent product hit the $150 level.

It's not going to lure me away from my staros yet.   It may, however, 
end

up being deployed if the AP turns out to be affordable for those smaller
cells.   If I can put up a 2-4 mile across cell (using omni, not sector) 
and

sell 5Mbit connections to 10 to 20 people per cell...  It might be less
costly than my star-os system.   I am not yet prepared to give up on 
routing

at the cpe end for normal installs.






North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history



I'm not sure if everyone really truly realizes what has just happened.
It took an hour or two for it to really sink in, I think I must have been

in

shock.

Last year when Betas were send out, they asked, how many we wanted to 
buy,

before they shipped.
This year, they just sent them, and I wasn't told the price.
Was it sorta like a restaurant with no prices on the menu?
Send us the gear to see how nice it is, and then tell us the big price 
tag

after we realized the advantages?
Think about it, Like a Fox, but will be able to do up to 30 mbps, cross
platform supported!
They jsut released a Fox-D2 for the low price point model. The M5580 was
likely going to have a bigger price tag, if I guessed.
What was it going to be, $300, $400, $500?  When I heard $150 today, I

able

shxt myself. I was blown away. I never expected it.

I remember three years ago, when everyone was talking about the 2 year 
ROI

on equipment, wishing that if they only had a $500 CPE! And one came,

thanks

Trango. And then some people started getting greety and pushing the

limits,

and said If we only had a $300 CPE. And sure enough it came. Thanks
Trango.  (Also a few others like Tranzeo releasing 2.4Ghz for under 
$150).

Some jerks actually had the nerve to then say, if I only had a $150

CPE!.
It just plain got rediculously funny at that point. Then Like Emeral 
would

say BAM! Trango did it agin, $150.  This is truly a defining

moment

in history.  No NOT for a commodity WIFI product, not for a 2.4Ghz

product.

But for a Commercial Robust WISP product! Equivellent to what we easilly
paid $500 for, less than a year ago.

I was lucky to share an experience this past October at a Trango meeting.
After the reception, some of us stuck around to hang out. We were all
dreaming about what we needed, to be more successful and sell more 
radios.
Then out of nowhere Z gets all serious and asks What If...we had a 
$200

CPE? We respond, how much quantity would that take? 5000, 10,000?
Instantly, Travis is like, at that price I'd commit to 5000, 1000 at a
time. Then I was like, I'd take 500. Etc, etc.  Then we all realized 
we

were dreaming and drinking way to much wine, and called it a night.  CPEs
were still $400 at that time, ya know. God what a poker face! I thought Z
was kidding!  And the irony in it all, quantity 10,000 is not required!

Just

qty 30! And its only $150, not $200!  I just don't know what to 

RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

2006-01-19 Thread Kurt Fankhauser
If your concerned about noise consider Motorola, it has excellent noise
rejection, it only needs somewhere around 3db above the noise for your
throughput.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:31 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

We have a lot of fence rows in this area so 900 is going to be a
necessary
evil like it or not. I tried using 5.7 Trango for a few installs early
on
and just couldn't get any range out of it in this area, and the noise
floor
is fairly high in 5.x around here. 

It seems like more and more people are starting up in this area all the
time
and the noise floor continues to rise, I would like to find a solution
that
does well in noisy environments and maybe even something that uses the
spectrum a bit more efficiently than standard 802.xx. 

Our FHSS has been great as far as noise has been concerned. We have had
two
competitors come in and install DSSS 2.4 within a few blocks of our FHSS
and
we never saw any difference. They have done installs shooting directly
over
the top of our customers on the same polarity and again it just keeps
plugging along. The others in the area definitely don't give a hoot
about us
and how could possible affect our service or customers so I need to do
what
it takes to keep our network as robust as possible. I wouldn't mind
sticking
with FHSS but I just don't see it giving us room to stretch our legs as
customers expect faster and faster connections.

It is starting to work out for us though because we are starting to get
calls from their customers inquiring about switching over to our service
based off of recommendations from their neighbors.

Thanks,
Chadd

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:02 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

Is foliage a problem in your area? Sounds like your using a lot of 900
gear. If foliage is not a problem you might want to look at 2.4 or
possibly 5.7 gear.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com



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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Would it be possible to have standard 802.11a support from this client? 
What about 5/10mhz channels?
That would make this a super killer product even more then it sounds 
now. Personally I would pay a
small fee per unit to have 11a support, 5/10mhz channels are becoming 
standard.


Jeromie

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:



Trango Introduces New $149 WISP Subscriber Unit


  /— Lowest priced fixed wireless modem available —/

*SAN DIEGO, CA — January 18, 2006* - Trango Broadband Wireless, the 
leader in fixed broadband wireless equipment, introduced a major 
addition to its product line which will enable Wireless Internet 
Service Providers (WISPs) to, for the first time, compete head-to-head 
against cable and DSL providers with the high performance /Atlas Fox/ 
M5580M-FSU wireless modem, priced at just $149 and capable of internet 
transmission speeds from 10 to 30 Mbps.


“We truly believe that the introduction of the /Atlas Fox/ wireless 
modem is the sea change event that will transform the wireless 
internet service market into a consumer mass-market service capable of 
out-competing cable and DSL delivery methods,” said Zdravko Divjak, 
CEO and President of Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product is 
eliminating the final obstacle toward nationwide deployments of fixed 
broadband wireless networks capable of serving millions of users coast 
to coast.”


“There’s nothing /lite/ about the /Atlas Fox/ M5580M-FSU,” said Todd 
Easterling, Vice President of Worldwide Marketing for Trango Broadband 
Wireless. “This product offers the industry’s highest performance and 
at a dramatic price breakthrough. Our engineers have outdone 
themselves on this one, and many of the wireless internet service 
providers who have Beta-tested the /Atlas Fox /are raving about the 
price to performance ratio. To provide /real/ 10 Mbps to their 
subscribers, at only $149 for the CPE (consumer premise equipment), 
enables WISPs to offer high-speed internet access to an entirely new 
market. More than ever, the return on investment and break-even points 
for WISPs deploying Trango are measurably superior to our 
competitors,” added Mr. Easterling. “Over the past few months we have 
clearly seen the cost and design benefits associated with controlling 
the entire product development and sales process—from engineering 
specification, to radios rolling off the production line of our own 
state-of-the-art factory in San Diego, to the direct sales model for 
the U.S. market. And most importantly, we’re passing on many of these 
benefits to our customers.”


Trango’s /Atlas Fox/ M5580M-FSU wireless modem, which can reach 
internet subscribers over twelve miles away from an Access Point (AP), 
currently provides upload and download speeds up to 10Mbps, and is 
upgradeable to speeds over 30Mbps. This provides a platform for next 
generation internet services known as the “triple play” (voice, video 
and data). In contrast, cable and telephone/DSL companies generally 
offer service between 1 Mbps and 6 Mbps bandwidth for downloads, and 
between 128 Kbps and 768 Kbps for uploads. Trango is taking orders for 
the /Atlas Fox/ now. Shipments begin February 7 th, 2006.




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RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

2006-01-19 Thread danlist
Does the 3db SNR still  apply when using 2X mode? I was under the impression
that 2X requires 10db



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of Kurt Fankhauser
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:20 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..
 
 If your concerned about noise consider Motorola, it has excellent noise
 rejection, it only needs somewhere around 3db above the noise for your
 throughput.
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 114 S. Walnut St.
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:31 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..
 
 We have a lot of fence rows in this area so 900 is going to be a
 necessary
 evil like it or not. I tried using 5.7 Trango for a few installs early
 on
 and just couldn't get any range out of it in this area, and the noise
 floor
 is fairly high in 5.x around here.
 
 It seems like more and more people are starting up in this area all the
 time
 and the noise floor continues to rise, I would like to find a solution
 that
 does well in noisy environments and maybe even something that uses the
 spectrum a bit more efficiently than standard 802.xx.
 
 Our FHSS has been great as far as noise has been concerned. We have had
 two
 competitors come in and install DSSS 2.4 within a few blocks of our FHSS
 and
 we never saw any difference. They have done installs shooting directly
 over
 the top of our customers on the same polarity and again it just keeps
 plugging along. The others in the area definitely don't give a hoot
 about us
 and how could possible affect our service or customers so I need to do
 what
 it takes to keep our network as robust as possible. I wouldn't mind
 sticking
 with FHSS but I just don't see it giving us room to stretch our legs as
 customers expect faster and faster connections.
 
 It is starting to work out for us though because we are starting to get
 calls from their customers inquiring about switching over to our service
 based off of recommendations from their neighbors.
 
 Thanks,
 Chadd
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:02 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..
 
 Is foliage a problem in your area? Sounds like your using a lot of 900
 gear. If foliage is not a problem you might want to look at 2.4 or
 possibly 5.7 gear.
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 114 S. Walnut St.
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
 
 
 
 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
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RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..

2006-01-19 Thread danlist
Also that is 3db at -65dbm signal

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of Kurt Fankhauser
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:20 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..
 
 If your concerned about noise consider Motorola, it has excellent noise
 rejection, it only needs somewhere around 3db above the noise for your
 throughput.
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 114 S. Walnut St.
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:31 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..
 
 We have a lot of fence rows in this area so 900 is going to be a
 necessary
 evil like it or not. I tried using 5.7 Trango for a few installs early
 on
 and just couldn't get any range out of it in this area, and the noise
 floor
 is fairly high in 5.x around here.
 
 It seems like more and more people are starting up in this area all the
 time
 and the noise floor continues to rise, I would like to find a solution
 that
 does well in noisy environments and maybe even something that uses the
 spectrum a bit more efficiently than standard 802.xx.
 
 Our FHSS has been great as far as noise has been concerned. We have had
 two
 competitors come in and install DSSS 2.4 within a few blocks of our FHSS
 and
 we never saw any difference. They have done installs shooting directly
 over
 the top of our customers on the same polarity and again it just keeps
 plugging along. The others in the area definitely don't give a hoot
 about us
 and how could possible affect our service or customers so I need to do
 what
 it takes to keep our network as robust as possible. I wouldn't mind
 sticking
 with FHSS but I just don't see it giving us room to stretch our legs as
 customers expect faster and faster connections.
 
 It is starting to work out for us though because we are starting to get
 calls from their customers inquiring about switching over to our service
 based off of recommendations from their neighbors.
 
 Thanks,
 Chadd
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:02 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Interested in your experience..
 
 Is foliage a problem in your area? Sounds like your using a lot of 900
 gear. If foliage is not a problem you might want to look at 2.4 or
 possibly 5.7 gear.
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 114 S. Walnut St.
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
 
 
 
 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 --
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/234 - Release Date:
 1/18/2006
 
 
 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
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 --
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.19/231 - Release Date: 01/16/2006
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.19/231 - Release Date: 01/16/2006
 

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[WISPA] CUWiN Release 0.6.0

2006-01-19 Thread Sascha Meinrath

Hi all,

With all the talk of various pros and cons of proprietary and non- networking 
solutions, I thought I'd mention that the CUWiN project has just released (as of 
yesterday) version 0.6.0 of our software.  Yes, it's open source; yes, it's free 
(and always will be); and yes, it's mesh.  This is _not_ v1.0 (i.e., it's not 
ready for use on your mission-critical infrastructure) -- but it is a 
non-proprietary solution that developers from around the globe are working on 
and that has the potential to significantly lower the cost of wireless broadband 
service provision.  We're always interested in working with folks that want to 
help out with development and we're also very interested in getting feedback 
from anyone that wants to play around with the technology.


Over the next year we're planning to port the software to a consumer-grade 
device -- think (indoor) CPE of $30-50.  And we're talking with folks about what 
the best device might be for this.


Intrigued? More info at:  www.cuwireless.net

--Sascha

P.S.  The Second National Summit for Community Wireless Networks will be 
happening March 31-April 2nd in St. Louis.  We haven't gotten the website fully 
updated yet, but you can catch a peek at:  www.cuwireless.net/summit  I'll be 
sending out an official invite soon, but if you want to register and reserve 
your spot, you can do there.


--
Sascha Meinrath
Policy Analyst*  Project Coordinator  *  President
Free Press   *** CUWiN   *** Acorn Active Media
www.freepress.net *  www.cuwireless.net   *  www.acornactivemedia.com
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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi



Mark,

Don't forget an arguement to support your 
position,"less components to fail.".

However, not creating a clear Dmarcation point, 
means free support labor. Not gicing end users a device to tinker with, means 
they try and tinker with yours, or bother you aimlessly for support. 


Its all an issue if you want to manage their home 
Net, or have them manage their home NET, and what the custoemr things of that. 
Its not wronfeither way.I personally insist on keeping the client out of 
my gear,and I'm clear on what gear is mine. I'll give them the 
Linksys, and I'll even let them set it up, but its there responsibility to pay 
me to manage and support it, if I feel its necessary. It does not box me 
into a possition of providing free support. But optionally I can, and create 
value, if it doesn't get out of hand.

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mark Koskenmaki 
  
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:36 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes 
  history
  
  I hate those routers, really. I find thier 
  configuration mechanisms frustrating or annoying. Some are just 
  downright almost unworkable. 
  
  Since my CPE does full routing / NAT firewalling, 
  etc... I still love it. That's an extra box I don't 
  ahve to buy and whatnot. 
  
  And yes, I understand you CAN use 
  these. I love the reliability and s tability of my staros 
  boxes. I think in the last 12 months I've had 1 or2 WRAP based CPE 
  need rebooted or restarted. Having the exact same thing at every 
  site is nice :) It would take me a while to develop confidence in 
  one of those consumer level routers.
  
  
  
  North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence 
  to: mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to: purchasing at 
  neofast dot netFast Internet, NO 
  WIRES!-
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Travis Johnson 
To: WISPA General List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:26 
PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes 
history
We have been installing Linksys / Dlink / Belkin routers at 
every install for almost 4 years. Customers get an "internal" wireless, we 
help protect them by having a firewall, and we then have a device we can 
monitor (with ping) to check their 
connection.TravisMicroservMark Koskenmaki wrote: 
Man if I only had a $75 CPE, I could...  Be dreaming?   Sorry, Tom, I had to
do that.

It's great to see a decent product hit the $150 level.

It's not going to "lure" me away from my staros yet.   It may, however, end
up being deployed if the AP turns out to be affordable for those smaller
cells.   If I can put up a 2-4 mile across cell (using omni, not sector) and
sell 5Mbit connections to 10 to 20 people per cell...  It might be less
costly than my star-os system.   I am not yet prepared to give up on routing
at the cpe end for normal installs.






North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:35 PM
Subject: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history


  
  I'm not sure if everyone really truly realizes what has just happened.
It took an hour or two for it to really sink in, I think I must have been
in
  
  shock.

Last year when Betas were send out, they asked, how many we wanted to buy,
before they shipped.
This year, they just sent them, and I wasn't told the price.
Was it sorta like a restaurant with no prices on the menu?
Send us the gear to see how nice it is, and then tell us the big price tag
after we realized the advantages?
Think about it, Like a Fox, but will be able to do up to 30 mbps, cross
platform supported!
They jsut released a Fox-D2 for the low price point model. The M5580 was
likely going to have a bigger price tag, if I guessed.
What was it going to be, $300, $400, $500?  When I heard $150 today, I
able
  
  shxt myself. I was blown away. I never expected it.

I remember three years ago, when everyone was talking about the 2 year ROI
on equipment, wishing that if they only had a $500 CPE! And one came,
thanks
  
  Trango. And then some people started getting greety and pushing the
limits,
  
  and said "If we only had a $300 CPE". And sure enough it came. Thanks
Trango.  (Also a few others like Tranzeo releasing 2.4Ghz for under $150).
Some jerks actually had the nerve to then say, "if I only had a $150
CPE!".
  
  It just plain got rediculously funny at that point. Then Like Emeral would
say "BAM!" Trango did it agin, "$150".  This 

Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread JohnnyO




Should make us all wonder why we're paying $200.00 for a cheap/crappy 802.11b CPE from the likes of Tranzeo or other vendors. 

I think as a company we will have to seriously take a look at this platform. My only real question is - How will it perform where Canopy is deployed in the same area...

JohnnyO

On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 14:20 -0500, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Trango Introduces New $149 WISP Subscriber Unit


 Lowest priced fixed wireless modem available 

SAN DIEGO, CA  January 18, 2006 - Trango Broadband Wireless, the leader in fixed broadband wireless equipment, introduced a major addition to its product line which will enable Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) to, for the first time, compete head-to-head against cable and DSL providers with the high performance Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, priced at just $149 and capable of internet transmission speeds from 10 to 30 Mbps.

We truly believe that the introduction of the Atlas Fox wireless modem is the sea change event that will transform the wireless internet service market into a consumer mass-market service capable of out-competing cable and DSL delivery methods, said Zdravko Divjak, CEO and President of Trango Broadband Wireless. This product is eliminating the final obstacle toward nationwide deployments of fixed broadband wireless networks capable of serving millions of users coast to coast.

Theres nothing lite about the Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU, said Todd Easterling, Vice President of Worldwide Marketing for Trango Broadband Wireless. This product offers the industrys highest performance and at a dramatic price breakthrough. Our engineers have outdone themselves on this one, and many of the wireless internet service providers who have Beta-tested the Atlas Fox are raving about the price to performance ratio. To provide real 10 Mbps to their subscribers, at only $149 for the CPE (consumer premise equipment), enables WISPs to offer high-speed internet access to an entirely new market. More than ever, the return on investment and break-even points for WISPs deploying Trango are measurably superior to our competitors, added Mr. Easterling. Over the past few months we have clearly seen the cost and design benefits associated with controlling the entire product development and sales processfrom engineering specification, to radios rolling off the production line of our own state-of-the-art factory in San Diego, to the direct sales model for the U.S. market. And most importantly, were passing on many of these benefits to our customers.

Trangos Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, which can reach internet subscribers over twelve miles away from an Access Point (AP), currently provides upload and download speeds up to 10Mbps, and is upgradeable to speeds over 30Mbps. This provides a platform for next generation internet services known as the triple play (voice, video and data). In contrast, cable and telephone/DSL companies generally offer service between 1 Mbps and 6 Mbps bandwidth for downloads, and between 128 Kbps and 768 Kbps for uploads. Trango is taking orders for the Atlas Fox now. Shipments begin February 7 th, 2006.



Larry A Weidig wrote: 


	Go to the web site, $149 CPE. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Have they produced a product that can pass 1Gbps full-duplex with a -92
signal in a NLOS environment?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 January 2006 19:01
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Come on... they are lowering prices? Atlas will be $100 for cpe?

  



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]




On
Behalf
  



Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Whooa  - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me smile
all over!

Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight




Zone!!
  



Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long and
wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in




a
  



day or two from what I understand. Man its gonna be G R E A T!!

giggling like a little girl

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600
318.303.4227
318.303.4229




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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi

Chadd,

Actually a very good post. And points out the other side. No body is 
perfect.  There have been many things that have frustrated me with the gear 
over the years. Will the reliabilty of using the gear go up? Only time will 
tell that one. But patience and loyalty to a vendor for me, I think is 
paying off.  Its weeks like this week, that show reasons why it was all 
worth it to be patient.


The way I look at it, any way I look at it, I've come out ahead.

The problems I remember most were...

1) I saw a great opportunity, and I had to turn it away, because I couldn't 
afford to buy the gear to do the job.
2) I saw someone else installing on the water tower, and wished it could 
have been me, but I couldn't afford the gear.


Trango gave me the option, to go after the deal. At the end of the day, 
after considering lost labor and time, was it really cheaper?  Who knows? 
All I can say is, I didn't find a better option. All I can say is that if it 
weren't for the price of Trango, at various stages each year, I wouldn't be 
in 30 major local markets today, and I wouldn't have been able to be in this 
business competitively.


Whether or not that is a good thing, is debateable. I probably would have 
done better if I invested in Real Estate. But what I like to see is constant 
improvement.  Every time, I start to get depressed fighting the daily 
challenges to build a business and grow, out of no where Trango comes up 
with some new advantage to make it easier on me to succeed. It helps boost 
my spirit and keep up the moral.  For me, as time goes by, they have shown a 
pattern of consistently just making it easier for WISPs.  That means a lot 
to me.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history



I am probably far more cynical than most but I really hope that Trango has
made a turn around as a company with the latest round of changes.

I tend to remember the bad things more than the good.

WARNING this is a list of the BAD things!! Good things are at the 
bottom...


I remember purchasing link 10's as soon as they were released and spending
time on the phone with at the time their rude tech support department 
trying

to figure out why they were locking up randomly requiring a power cycle to
get them back online. Only to find out from them that I was the only one 
in

the world having this problem and it must be because I don't know how to
install them. Low and behold a month or so later they release a firmware 
fix

for the 30 or so Day lock up issue that didn't exist.

I remember fighting with the 58xx form factor units filling up with water
and destroying the ethernet ports on them. Again I spent a lot of time 
with
the same rude tech support department trying to explain to them that it 
was
a pressure/temp difference causing water to be pulled into the units. 
Again

only to be accused of not knowing what I was doing and that I had to be
installing the units upside down. What do you know after fighting with 
them
about RMA repairs and such on the units they issue a statement about a 
month

later to not tighten the strain relief all the way on the radio so they
could breath and not pool water on the inside. I spent a Thanksgiving on a
tower because of this.

I remember buying and deploying a 900AP and having pissed off potential
customers because I couldn't get any SU's to do their installs. Also 
getting
to my 15th SU and trying to figure out why the web interface was hosed and 
I

couldn't add any more subs to it. Again another firmware fix.

I remember power supplies not having enough output to run the heaters on
longer cable runs and having to buy  new wall worts for some units.

I remember fighting and scrounging trying to find a switch that would
properly work with the ethernet ports on the units.

I remember condensation building up on the inside of the random on 5.x 
units

causing 30+ db of fade taking out links left and right. This is still an
issue on units I have not replaces with external antennas

I remember prices being jacked around.
The various changes in distribution models and not knowing who I was going
to get units from and how much was I going to have to pay for them.

You know what even after all of this I still buy and deploy some Trango
equipment, but it burns me every time I buy more stuff from them. These
problems would have been much more tolerable if they would have been 
decent

to work with and not so arrogant about insisting they werent having
problems.

THE GOOD stuff!!!

I also remember setting up my first long BH 14 miles with a Link-10 and
seeing 8ms latency and advertised throughput on the link.

Hooking up a few dozen customers on T900 that I could never touch in the
past with 2.4 or 5.x. I also get better throughput, distance 

Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi

The purpose of using Trango is to NOT be 802.11a.
Trango solves all the 802.11a problems, why would you take the problems back 
on again, after Trango solved them?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!


Would it be possible to have standard 802.11a support from this client?
What about 5/10mhz channels?
That would make this a super killer product even more then it sounds
now. Personally I would pay a
small fee per unit to have 11a support, 5/10mhz channels are becoming
standard.

Jeromie

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:



Trango Introduces New $149 WISP Subscriber Unit


  /— Lowest priced fixed wireless modem available —/

*SAN DIEGO, CA — January 18, 2006* - Trango Broadband Wireless, the leader 
in fixed broadband wireless equipment, introduced a major addition to its 
product line which will enable Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs) 
to, for the first time, compete head-to-head against cable and DSL 
providers with the high performance /Atlas Fox/ M5580M-FSU wireless modem, 
priced at just $149 and capable of internet transmission speeds from 10 to 
30 Mbps.


“We truly believe that the introduction of the /Atlas Fox/ wireless modem 
is the sea change event that will transform the wireless internet service 
market into a consumer mass-market service capable of out-competing cable 
and DSL delivery methods,” said Zdravko Divjak, CEO and President of 
Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product is eliminating the final obstacle 
toward nationwide deployments of fixed broadband wireless networks capable 
of serving millions of users coast to coast.”


“There’s nothing /lite/ about the /Atlas Fox/ M5580M-FSU,” said Todd 
Easterling, Vice President of Worldwide Marketing for Trango Broadband 
Wireless. “This product offers the industry’s highest performance and at a 
dramatic price breakthrough. Our engineers have outdone themselves on this 
one, and many of the wireless internet service providers who have 
Beta-tested the /Atlas Fox /are raving about the price to performance 
ratio. To provide /real/ 10 Mbps to their subscribers, at only $149 for 
the CPE (consumer premise equipment), enables WISPs to offer high-speed 
internet access to an entirely new market. More than ever, the return on 
investment and break-even points for WISPs deploying Trango are measurably 
superior to our competitors,” added Mr. Easterling. “Over the past few 
months we have clearly seen the cost and design benefits associated with 
controlling the entire product development and sales process—from 
engineering specification, to radios rolling off the production line of 
our own state-of-the-art factory in San Diego, to the direct sales model 
for the U.S. market. And most importantly, we’re passing on many of these 
benefits to our customers.”


Trango’s /Atlas Fox/ M5580M-FSU wireless modem, which can reach internet 
subscribers over twelve miles away from an Access Point (AP), currently 
provides upload and download speeds up to 10Mbps, and is upgradeable to 
speeds over 30Mbps. This provides a platform for next generation internet 
services known as the “triple play” (voice, video and data). In contrast, 
cable and telephone/DSL companies generally offer service between 1 Mbps 
and 6 Mbps bandwidth for downloads, and between 128 Kbps and 768 Kbps for 
uploads. Trango is taking orders for the /Atlas Fox/ now. Shipments begin 
February 7 th, 2006.




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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi



As stated a million time. Use Horizontal polarity 
antennas, Canopy doesn't. As long as mobile is not your goal, Trango is 
great platform.

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:24 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!
  Should make us all wonder why we're paying $200.00 for a 
  cheap/crappy 802.11b CPE from the likes of Tranzeo or other vendors. 
  I think as a company we will have to seriously take a look at this 
  platform. My only real question is - How will it perform where Canopy is 
  deployed in the same area...JohnnyOOn Wed, 2006-01-18 at 
  14:20 -0500, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 
  
Trango Introduces New $149 WISP Subscriber 
Unit 
— Lowest priced fixed wireless modem available 
— SAN DIEGO, CA — January 18, 2006 - Trango 
Broadband Wireless, the leader in fixed broadband wireless equipment, 
introduced a major addition to its product line which will enable Wireless 
Internet Service Providers (WISPs) to, for the first time, compete 
head-to-head against cable and DSL providers with the high performance 
Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, priced at just $149 and capable 
of internet transmission speeds from 10 to 30 Mbps.“We truly believe 
that the introduction of the Atlas Fox wireless modem is the sea 
change event that will transform the wireless internet service market into a 
consumer mass-market service capable of out-competing cable and DSL delivery 
methods,” said Zdravko Divjak, CEO and President of Trango Broadband 
Wireless. “This product is eliminating the final obstacle toward nationwide 
deployments of fixed broadband wireless networks capable of serving millions 
of users coast to coast.”“There’s nothing lite about the 
Atlas Fox M5580M-FSU,” said Todd Easterling, Vice President of 
Worldwide Marketing for Trango Broadband Wireless. “This product offers the 
industry’s highest performance and at a dramatic price breakthrough. Our 
engineers have outdone themselves on this one, and many of the wireless 
internet service providers who have Beta-tested the Atlas Fox are 
raving about the price to performance ratio. To provide real 10 Mbps 
to their subscribers, at only $149 for the CPE (consumer premise equipment), 
enables WISPs to offer high-speed internet access to an entirely new market. 
More than ever, the return on investment and break-even points for WISPs 
deploying Trango are measurably superior to our competitors,” added Mr. 
Easterling. “Over the past few months we have clearly seen the cost and 
design benefits associated with controlling the entire product development 
and sales process—from engineering specification, to radios rolling off the 
production line of our own state-of-the-art factory in San Diego, to the 
direct sales model for the U.S. market. And most importantly, we’re passing 
on many of these benefits to our customers.”Trango’s Atlas 
Fox M5580M-FSU wireless modem, which can reach internet subscribers over 
twelve miles away from an Access Point (AP), currently provides upload and 
download speeds up to 10Mbps, and is upgradeable to speeds over 30Mbps. This 
provides a platform for next generation internet services known as the 
“triple play” (voice, video and data). In contrast, cable and telephone/DSL 
companies generally offer service between 1 Mbps and 6 Mbps bandwidth for 
downloads, and between 128 Kbps and 768 Kbps for uploads. Trango is taking 
orders for the Atlas Fox now. Shipments begin February 7 th, 
2006.Larry A Weidig wrote: 
	Go to the web site, $149 CPE. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Have they produced a product that can pass 1Gbps full-duplex with a -92
signal in a NLOS environment?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 January 2006 19:01
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Come on... they are lowering prices? Atlas will be $100 for cpe?

  

  -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On
Behalf
  

  Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Whooa  - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me smile
all over!

Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight

Zone!!
  

  Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long and
wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in

a
  

  day or two from what I understand. Man its gonna be G 

[WISPA] Adding Ext antennas to Trango AP

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi
This document is for adding external connectors to a Trango 900AP. However, 
the same process applies to the 5830AP that use the same connectors.


The polarity of the internal connectors on the Trango 900 radios are as 
follows. The horrizontal is the top connector and the vertical is the bottom 
connector. The external connectors are the same configuration with 
horizontal on top. So likewise, when we modified 900 APs to have a second 
external connector we make the horzontal connector on top. So when changing 
polarity on the fly the original external port setting (e) is at vertical 
polarity, and the horizontal setting (h) is horizontal and the vertical 
setting (v) does not work.


We have determined N connectors will not fit anywhere in the casing, 
reliably. You nust use bulkhead RP/SMA female connectors in the case. The 
female connectors have the center pin but are still considered female 
because it has the threads on the outside of the connector. And the male 
has the threads inside the connector which screw around the female but has 
the hole for the internal pin to go into. Do not forget to get rubber 
gaskets and washers.


To create a proper hole in the casing, use metal drill bits that have a 
pilot point like the Dewalts.
The best position to make the hole in the casing is at the same height front 
to back as the original hole, and at the top of the raised flat portion of 
the side of the case. Looking from the inside of the case the hole is as far 
up as possible, this will allow the inside connector bolt to rest on the 
edge of the casing and will not turn as you screw in the connector from the 
outside. Make sure the hole is low enough to the back of the case so the 
mainboard of the radio can lay flat. Start with 1/2 in and drill deep enough 
to accommodate one washer to sit flush with the surface. You must start with 
the larger bit to create the recessed portion of the connector otherwise the 
pilot point on the smaller bit will have nothing to guide it through the 
rest of the casing wall. Next use a 3/8 bit to drill out enough space to 
insert a gasket under the washer. Finally us a 17/64 bit to go all the way 
through the casing for the RP/SMA connector. After screwing in the connector 
dab some epoxy on the inside of the case around the connector to help hold 
and prevent spinning of the connector when attatching/unattaching external 
cables.


Make a pigtail 12 inches long. The cable can be run upward through a small 
cutout in the center support wall inside the case over the radio edge and 
back down to the internal antenna connector. The type of connectors use for 
the pigtail are male MCX plug connectors (inserts inside other connector and 
has a pin). The other connector is the RP/SMA Female bulkhead connector. The 
cable is Time Microwave LMR 100a coaxial cable.


Note, of course make the pigtail before fastening sma connector to case and 
postion connector so the mcx plug can plug into the motherboard without 
stressing the cable. It is easiest to tighten sma connectors useing one 8mm 
wrench and one 8mm socket. The connectors come in multile sizes and need to 
be matched to the cable type. After inserting the cable into MCX connector, 
a dab of solder is required. In order to crimp the pins on the SMA connector 
use a xxx size crimp tool.


The external cables should use Andrews CNT-240. Male N connector and Male 
RP-SMA. Suggest 3ft in length.
The loos is only 7db per 100 feet 900Mhz. So 3ft, the cable will only have a 
loss of .23 db, almost negligible.


YEs, you will Void Warranty. But just in case, make sure to put the correct 
main board back into its same case, so that the MAC address listed on the 
outside sticker continues to match the MAC address embedded on the Mainboard 
Ethernet card.


Recommend Til Tek? 120 deg, 17 deg Vert Beam, 4 ft tall, Dual polarity, 11 
dbi (9 dbd) 900Mhz Sector Antennas. Cost($800). Great Front to back 20 db. 
Good isolation on edges of beamwidth. @ 425 feet, recommend 9 deg Tilt. Must 
be precise.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread Tom DeReggi

Bob,

On the surfice it appears fickle, but not truthfully.
Everybody wants to support distribution and their friends in distribution, 
in theory.
But Trango's goal as a manufacturer is strictly to find ways to sell more 
radios. Loyalty end there for any manufacturer from what I;ve seen.  The 
buyers goal is to get better availabilty and pricing, and initially they 
think Distribution can help guarantee that. But what when it doesn't? 
Trango didn't drop the distribution channel just to screw them, what would 
be the point. The idea was to increase volume, when taking them on, and when 
that doesn't happen, and instead distributors sell more of competitors' 
products, what do you do? Well, you start solving the difficiencies in your 
own operations so you don't ahve to rely on distributors to solve your 
problems.
Then you try something new until the job is done. Like lowering the price to 
$150, what the custoemr base is asking.  Buyers just aren't in a possition 
to trust anyone, so they complain, to influence possitive decissions, 
regardless of whether the decissions would have been reputable without the 
complaining. If consumers get better availability and pricing, doesn't that 
solve the buyer's need?

Thats not being fickle, thats being a smart business man.

I'd argue the golden question is will the product be more consistently 
reliable, with a lower price tag. Was something given up to achieve the 
better price? Our goal isn't to have the reduced reliability of a commodity 
$50 Linksys/Dlink/Netgear SOHO product.
The cliche,  You get what you pay for.  So testing and time is what will 
tell that. I'd like to believe Trango is just innovating its products, and 
able to make it cheaper, because they are getting smarter by experience. So 
far it looks like a winner.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history


Damn...If I didn't know any better there were several people bitching 
about Trango cutting out their distributors and going direct.  I think I 
remember people saying  That's it...I'll never buy from them again.


Now they have $149 CPE.   Hm.Should be interesting to see what 
happens now


:-)

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] EarthLink Chooses Moto for Muni Wireless Networks

2006-01-19 Thread Peter R.

http://www.telecommagazine.com/techzones/services/article.asp?HH_ID=AR_1619
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[WISPA] 5.8Ghz H-Pol Omni's ????

2006-01-19 Thread Bo Hamilton
Anyone know where I can get a 5.8Ghz (Tri-Band is better) H-POL Omni? I have looked but can't find any. Do they make such an animal?

Thanks,

Bo Hamilton
NCOWireless.com
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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

2006-01-19 Thread Jeffrey Thomas

Because in 6 months, you will be able to buy a Wimax Cpe for 200 bucks.

-

Jeff

On Jan 18, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

Hope that affects the price of everything else, at this point who  
would

by an 802.11a cpe for $250 when you can buy a trango for $150?

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TRANGO!!

Well MAC.Did we find the right news? Or is there more???

Mac Dearman wrote:

Whooa  - - I got a phone call yesterday from Trango that made me  
smile



all over!

Guys and Gals - - - -- hang on as we are about to enter the Twilight
Zone!!

Trango has some news that is gonna make all of us smile deep, long  
and



wide!!! I am not at liberty to disclose the info - - but they will in
a day or two from what I understand. Man its gonna be G R E A T!!
giggling like a little girl

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Authorized Barracuda Reseller
MikroTik RouterOS Certified
www.inetsouth.com
www.mac-tel.us
Rayville, La.
318.728.8600 318.303.4227
318.303.4229






--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history

2006-01-19 Thread Jenco Wireless
I was a HUGE Trango basher on another list.  I had the water
problems with the 5830 units.  I can say that after making me mad as
hell in the past, they do seem to have made improvements.  They
repaired some of my old (out of warranty) units at no charge and even
sent me a rebate for one that they charged me to repair a long time
ago.

Brad Hagstrom,
Jenco Wireless


On 1/18/06, Chadd Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am probably far more cynical than most but I really hope that Trango has
 made a turn around as a company with the latest round of changes.

 I tend to remember the bad things more than the good.

 WARNING this is a list of the BAD things!! Good things are at the bottom...

 I remember purchasing link 10's as soon as they were released and spending
 time on the phone with at the time their rude tech support department trying
 to figure out why they were locking up randomly requiring a power cycle to
 get them back online. Only to find out from them that I was the only one in
 the world having this problem and it must be because I don't know how to
 install them. Low and behold a month or so later they release a firmware fix
 for the 30 or so Day lock up issue that didn't exist.

 I remember fighting with the 58xx form factor units filling up with water
 and destroying the ethernet ports on them. Again I spent a lot of time with
 the same rude tech support department trying to explain to them that it was
 a pressure/temp difference causing water to be pulled into the units. Again
 only to be accused of not knowing what I was doing and that I had to be
 installing the units upside down. What do you know after fighting with them
 about RMA repairs and such on the units they issue a statement about a month
 later to not tighten the strain relief all the way on the radio so they
 could breath and not pool water on the inside. I spent a Thanksgiving on a
 tower because of this.

 I remember buying and deploying a 900AP and having pissed off potential
 customers because I couldn't get any SU's to do their installs. Also getting
 to my 15th SU and trying to figure out why the web interface was hosed and I
 couldn't add any more subs to it. Again another firmware fix.

 I remember power supplies not having enough output to run the heaters on
 longer cable runs and having to buy  new wall worts for some units.

 I remember fighting and scrounging trying to find a switch that would
 properly work with the ethernet ports on the units.

 I remember condensation building up on the inside of the random on 5.x units
 causing 30+ db of fade taking out links left and right. This is still an
 issue on units I have not replaces with external antennas

 I remember prices being jacked around.
 The various changes in distribution models and not knowing who I was going
 to get units from and how much was I going to have to pay for them.

 You know what even after all of this I still buy and deploy some Trango
 equipment, but it burns me every time I buy more stuff from them. These
 problems would have been much more tolerable if they would have been decent
 to work with and not so arrogant about insisting they werent having
 problems.

 THE GOOD stuff!!!

 I also remember setting up my first long BH 14 miles with a Link-10 and
 seeing 8ms latency and advertised throughput on the link.

 Hooking up a few dozen customers on T900 that I could never touch in the
 past with 2.4 or 5.x. I also get better throughput, distance and latency
 than with my Alvarion 900 customers, alvarion is a master and noise
 avoidance though when compared to T900.

 My link-10's just hum right along since the bugs were fixed. Besides the
 condensation issue on the INT units.

 I do think they are getting a bit better with regards to customer relations
 though and their tech support department was very personable and willing to
 help out last time I had to call them. So I hope this is a sign of things to
 come from them.

 I have been beating my head on the wall trying to figure out what equipment
 I want to use for a few new POP's this year and admit it would be nice if
 Trango pulled it together with a good line up of cost effective, feature
 rich and most of all bug free equipment early this year to add to my list of
 choices.

 Sorry for the rambling
 Chadd.


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:35 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] TRANGO- changes history


 I'm not sure if everyone really truly realizes what has just happened.
 It took an hour or two for it to really sink in, I think I must have been in
 shock.


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