Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Yeah, the waters in the routed vs. bridged argument are getting more and more muddied all of the time. How many wasted ip's are there in a routed network? Lots. What are the benefits of a routed network? More control and better customer isolation. With the new ap's that block client to client isolation, with vlan switches, bandwidth controlling cpe (or other solutions) and features like what Patrick is talking about routing is becoming less and less critical every day. Shoot, know how they do the fiber to the home out here? We're talking 100 meg fiber to the home too, not some wimpy 1 meg solution. They vlan customers into a single port to the isp. Basically frame a fancy switch, almost frame relay. No routing used at all. We don't even have a good option for routing at the customer other than doing it just because. It's certainly not a requirement. With so much extra capacity on the network, good switches, proper billing models etc. we don't need to route anything but the boarder connection anymore. Maybe if you are a HUGE isp but certainly not for a few hundreds subs. Hundreds of subs it's still a maybe. And with thousands I'll bet a creative operator could get away without routing just fine. It gets easier every day too. I know the routing purists here will be all over this one :-). But if you think about what I'm saying without the religious fanaticism usually applied to the argument it rings more and more true all of the time. The technology included in the VL line makes it easier to build a network that can be run by less technical staff. There is a cost savings there too. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients You missed the thread though Blair. Our CPEs are as low as $245 complete and only $285 for very low volume (25 a quarter). We have AUs now also for about $2500 MSRP (list price). And we can filter and control packets without a router, including broadcast packet rate limiting. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Why provide routers? To improve the isolation of the user from the network. To filter and control packets at the customer end before they clog up my wireless bandwidth. We run private IP space on our wireless network for the same reasons. We provide anti-virus and anti-spyware software for the same reasons. I'd love to be able to put up $500 cpe's and $5000 AP's But in my area, that would price me out of the market. We Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does 802.1q. It does layer 2 802.1p. Layer 3 prioritization with IP TOS (RFC791) and DSCP (RFC2474). And layer 4 with UDP/TCP port range. And we can deliver real VoIP QoS with a MOS of 4.0 and better using our proprietary WLP (wireless link prioritization) protocol. (And that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: reduced truck roll, Where are you getting this? I have been in the ISP business longer than MOST people on this list. I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion equipment, but the fact is, that to use Alvarion gear in any network I would build, you would HAVE to add an addition cost for a router. SO, we would add another $25ish to the cost of your CPE. At this point, the price is exactly the same (or very close). NOW, let's talk about upsell capability. With the Alvarion solution (including a router), I could upgrade the speed, but that costs how much? I could offer a firewall, vpn, qos or other options, but I'd have to change the cost of the
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
This is not a good position, I would like to sell my operation @ the moment that I assume I can get the best return for my investment OR as an exit strategy. Would you prefer to sell your customer base to a competitor or loose them all together... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Equity value is only important to those who wish to build and sell Those of us who just wish to make a living don't care so much about re-sale value. We are more interested in income. Patrick Leary wrote: I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Regards, Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Why can't I sell what I've built ?Because it doesn't brag on the Alvarion name ? Please. As for growth path, I've got rooftop leases for these repeaters. They're legally guaranteed for 30 yrs in most cases. Sheesh, in some cases, the houses will fall down before the equipment dies. I noticed that you pointed out the CX-BA-2.4-900 stuff. That's all fine and good. Oranges to Oranges, its WA more expensive to use Alvarion, and by $1000's. CX 2.4/900 repeater is like $2,000 or more. Same functionality with Mikrotik and Ubiquiti is around $500. So, the way I see it, I can put 4 repeaters up, and cover 4 times the area that I can with one CX repeater. AND, my tower side cost me $2,000 less as well! So, $5,000 spent = 1 customer and repeater with tower side on Alvarion, or 9 customers with repeaters and tower side with Mikrotik / Ubiquiti, AND I've got 9 repeaters out there touching a ton more customers. With Mikrotik, I've got firewalling / vpn / qos / bandwidth metering / HOTSPOT / OSPF / WDS / and a routed network all the way to each customer, OR a bridged network if I should so choose. Why would I have any less a path for growth or satisfactory exit in putting together Mikrotik solutions as opposed to Alvarion ? Cost of implementation's cheaper. Cost of replacement's cheaper. Cost of value added services are cheaper, AND implemented with only a phone call from the customer or even a hotspot implementation. Future bandwidth's just there - no manufacturer throttling to pay to upgrade like Alvarion Mikrotik doesn't tell me what I can't do - they put it all there and let you decide. No unlock extortion. Actually, I just sold a chunk of my Pennsylvania network, that was still in a build-up phase, with tower sites installed and a couple customers, for some cash that's going to run the rest of my network for a while. Whole thing was built on Canopy and Mikrotik tower sides and cpe's. Ya know, there IS one product I'll use religiously from Alvarion and it's the 2.4 DS11 backhaul units. Rock solid, decently priced (on the used market) and it's truly install-and-forget-it's-there stuff. I just don't see the financial advantage to spending anything else on Alvarion gear though. Especially when I've got high speed backhauls, short and long distance backhauls, multiple frequency ranges, including licensed and public safety, LOS, NLOS and hotspot / billing / etc all built into one platform that doesn't cost a ton of money, and there's a lot of good support for. I don't see how that's bad business. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients It is interesting Rick and creative, but with all due respect, you are not building a network that you are going to be able to sell most likely or at least certainly not for a good price. As well, you can't offer advanced services if you want to grow into them. Rick, it is a serious question: what is your path for growth and/or path to have a satisfactory
[WISPA] Techies like WiMAX's promise
All, The title is kind of misleading as this is a Clearwire press release more than what techies think of Wimax. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Techies like WiMAX's promise Saturday, December 02, 2006 By Jim Harger The Grand Rapids Press GRAND RAPIDS -- Local techies say they're geeked about Clearwire LLC's decision to set up a high-speed wireless network that will blanket the city. Clearwire's WiMAX technology may not be as familiar as the more common Wi-Fi technology, but it's the next big thing, said Josh Leng, an account executive with Robert Half Technology, an information technology consulting firm. Wi-Fi will be the technology of the past and WiMAX is what the next technology will be, said Leng, who said he's familiar with Clearwire's operations in other cities. This is a great move by the city. City officials announced Friday the Kirkland, Wash.-based firm will build a wireless network to blanket the city with high-speed access. City officials will provide Clearwire with tower locations in exchange for access for police and fire departments. Clearwire officials could not be reached for comment. The contract is to be approved by the City Commission on Tuesday. City officials said Clearwire has told them the system could be operating as soon as next summer. While the city chose Clearwire because it offers faster and more stable wireless communications for its police and fire departments, consumers may find the service less accessible. Clearwire has not said how much it will charge its customers for access to the network. It has promised city officials that the computer cards and hardware needed to upgrade computers will be available when the network is installed. Consumers who already use Wi-Fi connections at work may be reluctant to switch to the new format or use the WiMAX format at home, said Steve Goulet, a board member with glimaWest, a local technology users group. A lot will depend on how Clearwire prices its service and the cost of the necessary hardware, said Goulet, president of Blue Sphere Inc., an Ada technology firm. I don't see a problem with the actual technology, Goulet said. It does have really good speed and penetration. Laurie Cirivello, executive director of the Community Media Center, said she's pleased Clearwire will make its service available to low-income households for $9.95. The company also has promised to set up limited Internet access at some free Wi-Fi hot spots. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
I second Patrick comments, As a growing wisp and looking to acquisition opportunities, the only way I would buy a 802.11 based wisp was in the premise of tearing that equipment out and putting some Canopy in place... for others it could be Trango or Alvarion. 802.11 gear is good for starting out, but it doesn't scale ... been there, done that. Replaced 100's of 11b gear with Canopy, never looked back. Let me say more, that was the turning point of growth on my company.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients No, at the moment just anecdotal. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fcc Freq Search
List Is there a FCC search where I can imput a freq range and get all the licensees from a particular State ? Including the Regional and National Licensees that fall on that freq and state range ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
I thought about the same things. Once I put canopy or trango in, I've gotta replace the whole damn radio once cable / dsl starts taking away my customers. I'm in a cable / dsl area, and taking customers away from them, and basing it on Mikrotik. We're faster, not cheaper, and definitely better. But without being able to push 5 meg to the customer, I couldn't offer those plans. Doing that with anything but Mikrotik or PERHAPS tranzeo is costly or impossible, in this area due to 900 mhz needs and no clear 5.8 range. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I second Patrick comments, As a growing wisp and looking to acquisition opportunities, the only way I would buy a 802.11 based wisp was in the premise of tearing that equipment out and putting some Canopy in place... for others it could be Trango or Alvarion. 802.11 gear is good for starting out, but it doesn't scale ... been there, done that. Replaced 100's of 11b gear with Canopy, never looked back. Let me say more, that was the turning point of growth on my company.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients No, at the moment just anecdotal. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
How can you do 5 meg per client on 900 MHz? You would have to have several times that speed available per sector. Are you using the whole 900 MHz band on one sector? If yes then how do you stop self-interference on adjacent sectors? Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I thought about the same things. Once I put canopy or trango in, I've gotta replace the whole damn radio once cable / dsl starts taking away my customers. I'm in a cable / dsl area, and taking customers away from them, and basing it on Mikrotik. We're faster, not cheaper, and definitely better. But without being able to push 5 meg to the customer, I couldn't offer those plans. Doing that with anything but Mikrotik or PERHAPS tranzeo is costly or impossible, in this area due to 900 mhz needs and no clear 5.8 range. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I second Patrick comments, As a growing wisp and looking to acquisition opportunities, the only way I would buy a 802.11 based wisp was in the premise of tearing that equipment out and putting some Canopy in place... for others it could be Trango or Alvarion. 802.11 gear is good for starting out, but it doesn't scale ... been there, done that. Replaced 100's of 11b gear with Canopy, never looked back. Let me say more, that was the turning point of growth on my company.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients No, at the moment just anecdotal. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Greenup Illinois
Anyone service this town ? Contact me offlist PLEASE. JohnnyO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
using SR9's, with small cells - 1 - 2 milers. I have towers fed with 5 gig Tik, and there's generally 20 meg available at any tower. We're pulling 5 gig connections down to a vantage point or two, then using an SR9 with an omni from there to feed SR9 CPEs that have SR2 APs inside -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients How can you do 5 meg per client on 900 MHz? You would have to have several times that speed available per sector. Are you using the whole 900 MHz band on one sector? If yes then how do you stop self-interference on adjacent sectors? Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I thought about the same things. Once I put canopy or trango in, I've gotta replace the whole damn radio once cable / dsl starts taking away my customers. I'm in a cable / dsl area, and taking customers away from them, and basing it on Mikrotik. We're faster, not cheaper, and definitely better. But without being able to push 5 meg to the customer, I couldn't offer those plans. Doing that with anything but Mikrotik or PERHAPS tranzeo is costly or impossible, in this area due to 900 mhz needs and no clear 5.8 range. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I second Patrick comments, As a growing wisp and looking to acquisition opportunities, the only way I would buy a 802.11 based wisp was in the premise of tearing that equipment out and putting some Canopy in place... for others it could be Trango or Alvarion. 802.11 gear is good for starting out, but it doesn't scale ... been there, done that. Replaced 100's of 11b gear with Canopy, never looked back. Let me say more, that was the turning point of growth on my company.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients No, at the moment just anecdotal. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ *** * This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). *** * *** * This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). *** * *** * This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. *** * -- WISPA Wireless List:
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Can't resist... It's mainly due to the current Canopy gear trade-out promo Buy an Alvarion network, get your $8k Canopy credit, sell Alvarion to American (more ), buy replacement Canopies for $8k =) ducking -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Fcc Freq Search
Is there a FCC search where I can imput a freq range and get all the licensees from a particular State ? Including the Regional and National Licensees that fall on that freq and state range ? Yes and no 1. All the information is publically available 2. As much as we'd wish it to be, it's not as simple as just clicking a button Start here http://wireless.fcc.gov/uls/index.htm?job=home (current license search page is down for maintenance) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 7:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fcc Freq Search List Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Retaking the thread, all you guys doing Miktotik 900 mhz, why don't you try OSBridge 900 Client ? it's Mikrotik compatible, it has built in Router and you don't have to waste your time sourcing parts, dealing with diff warranties and assembling it. Its $280 plus antenna Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:02 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients using SR9's, with small cells - 1 - 2 milers. I have towers fed with 5 gig Tik, and there's generally 20 meg available at any tower. We're pulling 5 gig connections down to a vantage point or two, then using an SR9 with an omni from there to feed SR9 CPEs that have SR2 APs inside -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients How can you do 5 meg per client on 900 MHz? You would have to have several times that speed available per sector. Are you using the whole 900 MHz band on one sector? If yes then how do you stop self-interference on adjacent sectors? Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I thought about the same things. Once I put canopy or trango in, I've gotta replace the whole damn radio once cable / dsl starts taking away my customers. I'm in a cable / dsl area, and taking customers away from them, and basing it on Mikrotik. We're faster, not cheaper, and definitely better. But without being able to push 5 meg to the customer, I couldn't offer those plans. Doing that with anything but Mikrotik or PERHAPS tranzeo is costly or impossible, in this area due to 900 mhz needs and no clear 5.8 range. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I second Patrick comments, As a growing wisp and looking to acquisition opportunities, the only way I would buy a 802.11 based wisp was in the premise of tearing that equipment out and putting some Canopy in place... for others it could be Trango or Alvarion. 802.11 gear is good for starting out, but it doesn't scale ... been there, done that. Replaced 100's of 11b gear with Canopy, never looked back. Let me say more, that was the turning point of growth on my company.. Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients No, at the moment just anecdotal. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ *** * This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). *** * *** * This footnote
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion vs Moto/802.11 network value
On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, at the moment just anecdotal. So what how much more do Alvarion networks anecdotally go for? How was this broken down - in terms of $$$/subscriber? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
nice Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:11 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Hi Patrick, What basis do you have for the claim that an Alvarion network will fetch a higher price than a Canopy network? Some analysis of historical sell prices? I'd be interested to see it. Can't resist... It's mainly due to the current Canopy gear trade-out promo Buy an Alvarion network, get your $8k Canopy credit, sell Alvarion to American (more ), buy replacement Canopies for $8k =) ducking -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
It's a problem with 100baseT Modulation, Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
is there somewhere where I could find documentation on this issue. I'm just about to migrate many of my POPs from custom-wrap/soekris boards to MT routerboards. On 12/2/06, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Many outside radios suffer from RF radiation over the Ethernet. I have personally seen this on the YDI Etherant and the Trango FOX. This problem is not specific to any one manufacturer. The cable acts as a transmit antenna, carrying the clock signals from internally to the outside. This can be largely corrected with the use of ferrite beads at the radio and POE injector on these radios. This is a low cost fix in many cases and I have personally seen a 16 db improvement in noise elimination using this approach. Just Google ferrite beads and I am sure you will find suppliers. I do not remember where we got ours but they were very inexpensive. I think we paid less than a dollar a piece for these. They are literally a snap to install. They snap together over the Ethernet wire. It takes seconds to install. Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 MHz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
I haven't ever seen any documentation on the interference issue and I have never had any complaints from any where we have our gear. We are co-located on Parish towers, leased space on various towers and then have some of our towers with space leased to other agencies. There are all types of RF on all these sites and we are running many (read very MANY) MTRB532's with no trouble. There are fire dept, sheriff's depts, (3 Parishes) ambulance services, water companies, HAM radios, farm 2 ways, local PD's, as well as cell phone and pagers on all of these sites. I feel assured if there were a problem - - I would have been the one to have found it as we stand a great chance of interfering with numerous sub 200MHz spectrum. I will take a picture and post it as some of our MT RB532's are nestled in amongst numerous sub 200MHz antennas and have never heard a word from anyone - - - I don't doubt (as Scriv mentioned) that there could be some harmonics or RF radiation over Ethernet - but it cant be very high or very bad. IMHO Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients is there somewhere where I could find documentation on this issue. I'm just about to migrate many of my POPs from custom-wrap/soekris boards to MT routerboards. On 12/2/06, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
I have only seen this type of interference three times. Twice with Etherants and once with a Trango FOX. I have heard of other gear having similar issues from other WISPs. It usually effects over-the-air television or two-way radio communications located on the same tower as the data radio. I have heard of this type of interference a few times in regard to the RB532. I do not know if this particular board has a higher degree of this interference or if it is just a popular radio which has been identified to have similar issues. I do not have any RB532s in the field so I cannot speak to this one way or another for that particular product. I am guessing that some manufacturers have identified and resolved these issues prior to product release while others have not. From what I hear about the RB532 this is still an ongoing issue. I am also guessing that ferrite beads will at least diminish the level of noise for those who are dealing with this. Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: Very cool troubleshooting trick, but I've never heard of the problem. Is that wide spread John? Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Many outside radios suffer from RF radiation over the Ethernet. I have personally seen this on the YDI Etherant and the Trango FOX. This problem is not specific to any one manufacturer. The cable acts as a transmit antenna, carrying the clock signals from internally to the outside. This can be largely corrected with the use of ferrite beads at the radio and POE injector on these radios. This is a low cost fix in many cases and I have personally seen a 16 db improvement in noise elimination using this approach. Just Google ferrite beads and I am sure you will find suppliers. I do not remember where we got ours but they were very inexpensive. I think we paid less than a dollar a piece for these. They are literally a snap to install. They snap together over the Ethernet wire. It takes seconds to install. Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
I would LOVE to buy some and test this solution... as I don't believe that will fix the problem with the RB532's. The reason I say this is the problem is actually WORSE when you use just the regular 48V power supply (not PoE) and don't even plug an ethernet cable into the board at all. The noise is coming directly off the board. If someone wants to send me some, I can easily test it. I'll even pay for them and shipping. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Many outside radios suffer from RF radiation over the Ethernet. I have personally seen this on the YDI Etherant and the Trango FOX. This problem is not specific to any one manufacturer. The cable acts as a transmit antenna, carrying the clock signals from internally to the outside. This can be largely corrected with the use of ferrite beads at the radio and POE injector on these radios. This is a low cost fix in many cases and I have personally seen a 16 db improvement in noise elimination using this approach. Just Google ferrite beads and I am sure you will find suppliers. I do not remember where we got ours but they were very inexpensive. I think we paid less than a dollar a piece for these. They are literally a snap to install. They snap together over the Ethernet wire. It takes seconds to install. Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Any Status Updates?
Just to be clear. When I stated that I had heard that the RB532 was causing some interference out of band I was not trying to discredit Mikrotik or their products. I had read the thread below earlier. That was what had led to my belief that this board was creating some out of band interference and had ongoing issues related to that. If anyone has more current information about validation of this problem or a remedy please feel free to share. Thanks, Scriv Original Message Subject:RE: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:08:33 -0400 From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Does anyone know if there is a resolution on this issue? If you browse Mikrotik's site, the thread has been removed. Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Here is a thread from the MT forums on it. http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=9130 Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mac Dearman wrote: Where did you get that info from Travis? Links, source...etc? Mac Dearman *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:58 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Maybe they pulled them off production due to the NOISE they are blowing all over the 50-450Mhz spectrum. :( Travis Microserv Kelly Shaw wrote: Anyone know of a source with RouterBoard 532s in stock? I normally can get them from WispRouter but they won't respond to my phone calls about them... Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net http://www.pure.net __ NOD32 1.1657 (20060713) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com !DSPAM:16,44b6c32336811364511223! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alvarion vs Moto/802.11 network value
From my understanding, prices have varied significantly (not a surprise right) and depends on many things like demographics covered, quality of the network including physical infrastructure (e.g. mounting assets), hardware infrastructure, NOC facilities, quality of contracts in place (e.g. site/tower contracts), and of course subscriber counts and types. During this upcoming work week, I'll see if some of the people involved in valuations would be willing to share some information. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 7:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion vs Moto/802.11 network value On 12/2/06, Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, at the moment just anecdotal. So what how much more do Alvarion networks anecdotally go for? How was this broken down - in terms of $$$/subscriber? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Just a FYI, I would not be purchasing ANY of the equipment in most cases. 3-6 months of each customers monthly reoccurring, and I am taking over your costs on the towers. That's about it. Now if your network has standards, as mine has MTs for APs only, and such, or any other brand, I would look at that as, ya that equipment is worth something Even if it was MTs, a tower with 3 sectors and a backhaul would only be worth, what 500 to 1000 in a buy out. That's assuming that it is all working and the subs are the same. If I had to buy proprietary gear to add customers, then I would maybe even drop that price a bit. What I am trying to say is that the gear really don't matter, it's the subs and the leases. The leases are a liability, they cost, so I am not going to purchase a lease from someone. I will purchase what equipment is up there, and the subs they are off of. But most likely would swap that out at the time of takeover. (Been thinking of this lately) Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.2kwireless.com 2K Wireless provides high-speed internet access, along with network consulting for WISPs, and business's with a focus on TCP/IP networking, security, and Mikrotik routers. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it, but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An 802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.) Regards, Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Why can't I sell what I've built ?Because it doesn't brag on the Alvarion name ? Please. As for growth path, I've got rooftop leases for these repeaters. They're legally guaranteed for 30 yrs in most cases. Sheesh, in some cases, the houses will fall down before the equipment dies. I noticed that you pointed out the CX-BA-2.4-900 stuff. That's all fine and good. Oranges to Oranges, its WA more expensive to use Alvarion, and by $1000's. CX 2.4/900 repeater is like $2,000 or more. Same functionality with Mikrotik and Ubiquiti is around $500. So, the way I see it, I can put 4 repeaters up, and cover 4 times the area that I can with one CX repeater. AND, my tower side cost me $2,000 less as well! So, $5,000 spent = 1 customer and repeater with tower side on Alvarion, or 9 customers with repeaters and tower side with Mikrotik / Ubiquiti, AND I've got 9 repeaters out there touching a ton more customers. With Mikrotik, I've got firewalling / vpn / qos / bandwidth metering / HOTSPOT / OSPF / WDS / and a routed network all the way to each customer, OR a bridged network if I should so choose. Why would I have any less a path for growth or satisfactory exit in putting together Mikrotik solutions as opposed to Alvarion ? Cost of implementation's cheaper. Cost of replacement's cheaper. Cost of value added services are cheaper, AND implemented with only a phone call from the customer or even a hotspot implementation. Future bandwidth's just there - no manufacturer throttling to pay to upgrade like Alvarion Mikrotik doesn't tell me what I can't do - they put it all there and let you decide. No unlock extortion. Actually, I just sold a chunk of my Pennsylvania network, that was still in a build-up phase, with tower sites installed and a couple customers, for some cash that's going to run the rest of my network for a while. Whole thing was built on Canopy and Mikrotik tower sides and cpe's. Ya know, there IS one product I'll use religiously from Alvarion and it's the 2.4 DS11 backhaul units. Rock solid, decently priced (on the used market) and it's truly install-and-forget-it's-there stuff. I just don't see the financial advantage to spending anything else on Alvarion gear though. Especially when I've got high speed backhauls, short and long distance backhauls, multiple frequency ranges, including licensed and public safety, LOS, NLOS and hotspot / billing / etc all built into one platform that doesn't
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
We are picking up 2.4 gig CPE/Routers, QOS, NAT, and DHCP is all built into the CPE, for what, 99 bucks! 150 something including a 19db antenna, where the 99 is a 12 db antenna. BTW, both are B/G and 400mw output. Good for here in MO with our dang HILLS! Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.2kwireless.com 2K Wireless provides high-speed internet access, along with network consulting for WISPs, and business's with a focus on TCP/IP networking, security, and Mikrotik routers. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients You missed the thread though Blair. Our CPEs are as low as $245 complete and only $285 for very low volume (25 a quarter). We have AUs now also for about $2500 MSRP (list price). And we can filter and control packets without a router, including broadcast packet rate limiting. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Why provide routers? To improve the isolation of the user from the network. To filter and control packets at the customer end before they clog up my wireless bandwidth. We run private IP space on our wireless network for the same reasons. We provide anti-virus and anti-spyware software for the same reasons. I'd love to be able to put up $500 cpe's and $5000 AP's But in my area, that would price me out of the market. We Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does 802.1q. It does layer 2 802.1p. Layer 3 prioritization with IP TOS (RFC791) and DSCP (RFC2474). And layer 4 with UDP/TCP port range. And we can deliver real VoIP QoS with a MOS of 4.0 and better using our proprietary WLP (wireless link prioritization) protocol. (And that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: reduced truck roll, Where are you getting this? I have been in the ISP business longer than MOST people on this list. I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion equipment, but the fact is, that to use Alvarion gear in any network I would build, you would HAVE to add an addition cost for a router. SO, we would add another $25ish to the cost of your CPE. At this point, the price is exactly the same (or very close). NOW, let's talk about upsell capability. With the Alvarion solution (including a router), I could upgrade the speed, but that costs how much? I could offer a firewall, vpn, qos or other options, but I'd have to change the cost of the router from a $25 router to (at least) a $100 router. If I am able to hit one customer in an area, but the others have obscured LOS, I would have to build another AP somewhere, where with MT, I could just add an $80 (including antenna) upgrade to their router and offer service off that new AP. I can offer real options for firewall, vpn, qos from their ethernet port all the way to my network edge. Did I miss anything? Perhaps there are other options that Alvarion has that I missed. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote
RE: [WISPA] Fcc Freq Search
Here is the link Gino. I like the specialized searches on the right best. You can enter as many or as few fields as you want. The data that can be collected is excellent, and you can even map the results in color (see the mapping link on top of the search result page. Also, for spectrum like BRS and EBS, now that you have secondary spectrum leasing, you need another search mode, one that allows you to search for leased spectrum or even sublet spectrum. The FCC has launched a new search just for this: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLease.jsp;JSESSIONID_ULS SEARCH=FY1d4gTYY2RfpwtiixrSMqFsj5LJRedbyEK9aSFaqJ0l1PEP7Qro!-620396247!- 260225646 This search is based on collection of Form 608, which is the form filed every time there is a lease or sublease deal. It seem to me that this search database is still being populated though. Enjoy. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:40 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fcc Freq Search List Is there a FCC search where I can imput a freq range and get all the licensees from a particular State ? Including the Regional and National Licensees that fall on that freq and state range ? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Any Status Updates?
John, The real issue is that Mikrotik is ignoring the problem. I have personally emailed John Tully @ MT four or five times with no response. I posted a message on their support forum back in July or August and it was deleted. One of my partners posted a message on their support forum (with a different username) and it was also deleted off the forum. :( There is obviously an issue as Mikrotik is trying to cover it up (hoping it will go away). Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Just to be clear. When I stated that I had heard that the RB532 was causing some interference out of band I was not trying to discredit Mikrotik or their products. I had read the thread below earlier. That was what had led to my belief that this board was creating some out of band interference and had ongoing issues related to that. If anyone has more current information about validation of this problem or a remedy please feel free to share. Thanks, Scriv Original Message Subject: RE: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:08:33 -0400 From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Does anyone know if there is a resolution on this issue? If you browse Mikrotik's site, the thread has been removed. Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Here is a thread from the MT forums on it. http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=9130 Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mac Dearman wrote: Where did you get that info from Travis? Links, source...etc? Mac Dearman *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:58 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Maybe they pulled them off production due to the NOISE they are blowing all over the 50-450Mhz spectrum. :( Travis Microserv Kelly Shaw wrote: Anyone know of a source with RouterBoard 532s in stock? I normally can get them from WispRouter but they won't respond to my phone calls about them... Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net http://www.pure.net __ NOD32 1.1657 (20060713) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com !DSPAM:16,44b6c32336811364511223! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Any Status Updates?
John, The last I heard, it was an issue caused by running the boards on 48 vDC. I don't think it is a problem if you are running them on lower voltages. I have a partner WISP that was causing some problems on a fire department frequency. It caused a clicking noise in their radio transmissions. Backing off the power alleviated this problem. Rick Harnish President Supernova Technologies, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:49 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Any Status Updates? Just to be clear. When I stated that I had heard that the RB532 was causing some interference out of band I was not trying to discredit Mikrotik or their products. I had read the thread below earlier. That was what had led to my belief that this board was creating some out of band interference and had ongoing issues related to that. If anyone has more current information about validation of this problem or a remedy please feel free to share. Thanks, Scriv Original Message Subject:RE: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:08:33 -0400 From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Does anyone know if there is a resolution on this issue? If you browse Mikrotik's site, the thread has been removed. Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Here is a thread from the MT forums on it. http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=9130 Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mac Dearman wrote: Where did you get that info from Travis? Links, source...etc? Mac Dearman *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:58 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Maybe they pulled them off production due to the NOISE they are blowing all over the 50-450Mhz spectrum. :( Travis Microserv Kelly Shaw wrote: Anyone know of a source with RouterBoard 532s in stock? I normally can get them from WispRouter but they won't respond to my phone calls about them... Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net http://www.pure.net __ NOD32 1.1657 (20060713) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com !DSPAM:16,44b6c32336811364511223! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, JohnnyO wrote: Travis - please show me PROOF of this - Lemme see the scans you've performed by Spec-An and any other documented data you've accumulated. I've heard of this issue. I will be doing some testing in the next 2 weeks with some conclusive tests. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] I did step into it...
On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: but only always with the best and most sincere of intentions. I don't doubt this at all. Is that a better subject line Butch? :) Anyway, time for me to quit the thread since it is not headed in any positive direction, whether or not it is of my making. I really don't want to sound like I'm Alvarion bashing, as I think your product line is absolutely among the best. I just disagree that is fits everywhere. FWIW, if I were still a WISP, I would almost certainly have more Alvarion gear in my network than I did when I was...Just mostly on the backhauls. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Butch... here is what we found... Non-PoE 48V input was the worst for noise at 100-150MHz and 400-450MHz. PoE 48V was down a little, but only slightly. Non-PoE 18V input got rid of most of the 100-150MHz, and dropped the 400-450MHz by 70%. PoE 18V was down more, with 99% of the 100-150MHz gone and the 400-450MHz down by 80% or more. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, JohnnyO wrote: Travis - please show me PROOF of this - Lemme see the scans you've performed by Spec-An and any other documented data you've accumulated. I've heard of this issue. I will be doing some testing in the next 2 weeks with some conclusive tests. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Yeah, the waters in the routed vs. bridged argument are getting more and more muddied all of the time. How many wasted ip's are there in a routed network? Lots. This is a big misconception. I don't have time to go into it here, but the truth of the matter is that what you are calling wasted is better described as a cost in exchange for a benefit. What are the benefits of a routed network? More control and better customer isolation. This is only one of the benefits. Scalability especially in a wireless network is a benefit. Alvarion offering VLAN will provide some of the scalability and other benefits that routing will offer. If you think that VLANs are a scalable solution, look over the networks owned by the tier 1 providers and see what they are using...routed with BGP. With the new ap's that block client to client isolation, with vlan switches, bandwidth controlling cpe (or other solutions) and features like what Patrick is talking about routing is becoming less and less critical every day. No...it's becoming less and less used toward the customer because more and more people are getting into the business of providing internet service without understanding HOW or WHY their network would function better if it were not bridged. You can argue that point if you want, but I have moved more networks from bridged to routed with positive results than the other way around. (there is one notable exception, but I think those results are a bit skewed for other reasons.) Is bridging easier? Yes. Is it common? Among smaller providers, yes. Is is scalable? Only if you use some other technology (such as vlan) to create the separation between the endpoints. As I said, even with VLANs, there is a limit to the scale the network can reach without some routing. solution. They vlan customers into a single port to the isp. Basically frame a fancy switch, almost frame relay. No routing used at all. We don't even have a good option for routing at the You don't think their networks are routed? Look at your border router...the public interface is going to have a /30 address...your range of public IP space is routed via that /30 address. You are incorrect in your assumption that there is no routing used at all. customer other than doing it just because. It's certainly not a requirement. No...not a requirement. It's just a more scalable solution. Maybe if you are a HUGE isp but certainly not for a few hundreds subs. Hundreds of subs it's still a maybe. And with thousands I'd disagree here, too. But, I've only been an ISP since 1993, so what do I know... The technology included in the VL line makes it easier to build a network that can be run by less technical staff. There is a cost savings there too. It is true that the VL line of products offer some real options. VLANs are a GOOD tool, and having this option DOES offer some cool upsale possibilities. But, VLANs are not intended to be a replacement for a routed network. I've been in this business for a long time. I've built several networks to fairly large scale, including more than one to over 1000 customer base. One that I am now managing has over 3000 subs. That network is using VLANs to provide some services. It is using other technologies as well, but the network is routed. You can't scale a bridged network. It's just that simple. As I said in another post...you don't have to believe that, others don't have to do it, but it IS the best practice. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Travis Johnson wrote: Non-PoE 48V input was the worst for noise at 100-150MHz and 400-450MHz. PoE 48V was down a little, but only slightly. Non-PoE 18V input got rid of most of the 100-150MHz, and dropped the 400-450MHz by 70%. PoE 18V was down more, with 99% of the 100-150MHz gone and the 400-450MHz down by 80% or more. I'll test against these results and post what I find. I hope to be able to do this after hours at TenX (at the training class I'm doing there). -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Any Status Updates?
John, we had an instance of the voltage regulator on the 532 causing interference in the public safety band (154 MHz). We were able to change it to 12V and the problem went away. 48V had a problem, and 12V fixed our problem. I have not heard anything official from MT on this issue. The State Police and the Ambulance were not happy campers when we found out what was happening. The hospital transmitted on their channel, and the transmission bled over to the State Police Channel. Once our MT was off no problem. Switch to 12V and still no problem. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:49 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Any Status Updates? Just to be clear. When I stated that I had heard that the RB532 was causing some interference out of band I was not trying to discredit Mikrotik or their products. I had read the thread below earlier. That was what had led to my belief that this board was creating some out of band interference and had ongoing issues related to that. If anyone has more current information about validation of this problem or a remedy please feel free to share. Thanks, Scriv Original Message Subject:RE: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:08:33 -0400 From: Eric Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Does anyone know if there is a resolution on this issue? If you browse Mikrotik's site, the thread has been removed. Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Here is a thread from the MT forums on it. http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=9130 Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mac Dearman wrote: Where did you get that info from Travis? Links, source...etc? Mac Dearman *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:58 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] RouterBoard 532s Maybe they pulled them off production due to the NOISE they are blowing all over the 50-450Mhz spectrum. :( Travis Microserv Kelly Shaw wrote: Anyone know of a source with RouterBoard 532s in stock? I normally can get them from WispRouter but they won't respond to my phone calls about them... Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net http://www.pure.net __ NOD32 1.1657 (20060713) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com !DSPAM:16,44b6c32336811364511223! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006 5:07 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Ferrite beads help but do not solve the issue -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients I would LOVE to buy some and test this solution... as I don't believe that will fix the problem with the RB532's. The reason I say this is the problem is actually WORSE when you use just the regular 48V power supply (not PoE) and don't even plug an ethernet cable into the board at all. The noise is coming directly off the board. If someone wants to send me some, I can easily test it. I'll even pay for them and shipping. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Many outside radios suffer from RF radiation over the Ethernet. I have personally seen this on the YDI Etherant and the Trango FOX. This problem is not specific to any one manufacturer. The cable acts as a transmit antenna, carrying the clock signals from internally to the outside. This can be largely corrected with the use of ferrite beads at the radio and POE injector on these radios. This is a low cost fix in many cases and I have personally seen a 16 db improvement in noise elimination using this approach. Just Google ferrite beads and I am sure you will find suppliers. I do not remember where we got ours but they were very inexpensive. I think we paid less than a dollar a piece for these. They are literally a snap to install. They snap together over the Ethernet wire. It takes seconds to install. Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients There is a HUGE problem with Mikrotik and FCC certification. The Mikrotik 532 puts out over 30db of constant noise in an area they should not be (150MHz and 400MHz). It's still an issue, and has not been fixed or even addressed by MT. Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote: Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't provide routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work we have our own router. I provide a router because that is the best network design and it offers ME an upgrade path that is beyond just being a provider of a COMMODITY service (transport). You don't have to agree with it, others don't have to do it, but them's the facts. VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does SNIPPED LOTA OF NON MARKETING GOOP that's not marketing goop, it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.) Wow. As I said in the first post, I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion gear...(please read the last paragraph) Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons in RD and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system. This is a problem, but not so much of a problem as you make it out to be. I realize the law is black and white, but the reality is a little more like shades of grey. I'm not supporting anyone breaking the law, but the truth of the matter is that there IS a difference between operating a system that is not certified within legal limits and operating a system that operates outside legal power limits. The primary difference is that one of these (you get to pick) will cause more harm to the usability of the spectrum than the other. On another subject, take another look at the subject line...It's not about Alvarion gear, but you seem to have stepped into the middle of it (once again). I really just wish you'd at least have the courtesy to change the subject line if you are going to change the subject. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Each product has strength and weaknesses and what is best for a city wisp probably won't cut it for some one in the boonies. We use to use Trango but they moved there product closer to Moto and I for us that was the wrong direction. We also have many hundred Wave rider customers and even with some of its draw backs compared to newer products the software is great compared to Trango, you can solve almost any issue from you desktop where you need other tools or hardware to come close on a Trango. The Alvarion products I have used are top notch but their 900mhz is lacking in many ways. I would tend to side a bit with Patrick on a brand name network having a better resale value and potential as it is a know quantity where as a Mikrotik networks quality is harder to value as it depends more on the people who put it together. But just because your use M$ for your PC and network does not mean you have a better network or desktop when compared to Linux. It's just different. Mikrotik is not just about 802.11a/b/g which in most cases I try and avoid. They to have a proprietary protocol too that employs polling for P2MP and does away with may of the a/b/g issues. With Mikrotik you are not dependent on a single vendor and their stock issues, you can in most cases work around them. Think of it this way too. No multi thousand dollar spares sitting on a self getting dusty. If my main back haul, AP, Hotspot, etc. takes a lighting hit, I can convert my own client radio into a back haul or what ever and tune it to any frequency from 4.9ghz to 6ghz or just even grab an old 486 and a wireless nic from a local store and your up in only an hour or so longer then it takes to drive to the site. Due to the frequency rang available you also do not have to stock a selection of multi hundred dollar CPE's or multi thousand dollar APs' to cover different bands. About the only disadvantage I see in this is that I'm guessing that products like Alvarion MAY perform better in noisy environments as the frequency restriction on these products should in theory provide better selectivity then mPCI based cards... It would be interesting to test some things like adjacent channel rejection and other stuff that is never spec'ed by the vendors. Erik John Scrivner wrote: I have only seen this type of interference three times. Twice with Etherants and once with a Trango FOX. I have heard of other gear having similar issues from other WISPs. It usually effects over-the-air television or two-way radio communications located on the same tower as the data radio. I have heard of this type of interference a few times in regard to the RB532. I do not know if this particular board has a higher degree of this interference or if it is just a popular radio which has been identified to have similar issues. I do not have any RB532s in the field so I cannot speak to this one way or another for that particular product. I am guessing that some manufacturers have identified and resolved these issues prior to product release while others have not. From what I hear about the RB532 this is still an ongoing issue. I am also guessing that ferrite beads will at least diminish the level of noise for those who are dealing with this. Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: Very cool troubleshooting trick, but I've never heard of the problem. Is that wide spread John? Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Many outside radios suffer from RF radiation over the Ethernet. I have personally seen this on the YDI Etherant and the Trango FOX. This problem is not specific to any one manufacturer. The cable acts as a transmit antenna, carrying the clock signals from internally to the outside. This can be largely corrected with the use of ferrite beads at the radio and POE injector on these radios. This is a low cost fix in many cases and I have personally seen a 16 db improvement in noise elimination using this approach. Just Google ferrite beads and I am sure you will find suppliers. I do not remember where we got ours but they were very inexpensive. I think we paid less than a dollar a piece for these. They are literally a snap to install. They snap together over the Ethernet wire. It takes seconds to install. Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From:
[WISPA] WISPA has a new Vendor Menber - Welcome FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Please join me in welcoming a true friend of the ISP / WISP industry as our newest Vendor Member, Frank Muto of FSM Marketing Group, Inc. Many of you already know Frank as a tireless advocate of all that is good for the WISP industry. He is joining WISPA to show his support and also to take the opportunity to offer spam filtering services that he sells to hundreds of other companies. I am looking forward to hearing more about what Frank is offering to us and I am certainly happy he has decided to make the move to joining WISPA formally. Here is a bit about Frank and FSM: FSM Marketing Group, Inc., was founded by Frank Muto in 1994 and incorporated in 2000. Starting in 1994, the business began providing web development and later in 1997 began offering hosting and dial-up Internet service. Since May of 2003, FSM provides Postini’s Perimeter Manager® for over 900 customer mail systems. As an authorized Postini Partner, FSM offers ISP’s, Web-hosts, IT consultants, integrators and businesses cost effective spam and virus filtering solutions, disaster recovery, message continuity and new and upgraded services on a continuous basis. Thank you again Frank, we look forward to working with you. Kindest regards, John Scrivner President WISPA -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
- Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Yeah, the waters in the routed vs. bridged argument are getting more and more muddied all of the time. How many wasted ip's are there in a routed network? Lots. This is a big misconception. I don't have time to go into it here, but the truth of the matter is that what you are calling wasted is better described as a cost in exchange for a benefit. It's a very high cost. Why does every residential user need to tie up 3 ip addys? How long can we keep handing them out like that before we run into trouble again? There is only so much nat that we're gonna get away with. What are the benefits of a routed network? More control and better customer isolation. This is only one of the benefits. Scalability especially in a wireless network is a benefit. Alvarion offering VLAN will provide some of the scalability and other benefits that routing will offer. If you think that VLANs are a scalable solution, look over the networks owned by the tier 1 providers and see what they are using...routed with BGP. With the new ap's that block client to client isolation, with vlan switches, bandwidth controlling cpe (or other solutions) and features like what Patrick is talking about routing is becoming less and less critical every day. No...it's becoming less and less used toward the customer because more and more people are getting into the business of providing internet service without understanding HOW or WHY their network would function better if it were not bridged. You can argue that point if you want, but I have moved more networks from bridged to routed with positive results than the other way around. (there is one notable exception, but I think those results are a bit skewed for other reasons.) Is bridging easier? Yes. Is it common? Among smaller providers, yes. Is is scalable? Only if you use some other technology (such as vlan) to create the separation between the endpoints. As I said, even with VLANs, there is a limit to the scale the network can reach without some routing. solution. They vlan customers into a single port to the isp. Basically frame a fancy switch, almost frame relay. No routing used at all. We don't even have a good option for routing at the You don't think their networks are routed? Look at your border router...the public interface is going to have a /30 address...your range of public IP space is routed via that /30 address. You are incorrect in your assumption that there is no routing used at all. On the client side that's not correct. We have ONE vlan port. ALL of our fiber customers connect right in to that vlan. That vlan hits a switch on our network, right beside one of the main wireless links. No routing till it hits the customer's site. customer other than doing it just because. It's certainly not a requirement. No...not a requirement. It's just a more scalable solution. There are nearly 4000 (unfortunately not all mine :-) 100meg customers on that network. Maybe if you are a HUGE isp but certainly not for a few hundreds subs. Hundreds of subs it's still a maybe. And with thousands I'd disagree here, too. But, I've only been an ISP since 1993, so what do I know... Grin. The technology included in the VL line makes it easier to build a network that can be run by less technical staff. There is a cost savings there too. It is true that the VL line of products offer some real options. VLANs are a GOOD tool, and having this option DOES offer some cool upsale possibilities. But, VLANs are not intended to be a replacement for a routed network. I've been in this business for a long time. I've built several networks to fairly large scale, including more than one to over 1000 customer base. One that I am now managing has over 3000 subs. That network is using VLANs to provide some services. It is using other technologies as well, but the network is routed. You can't scale a bridged network. It's just that simple. As I said in another post...you don't have to believe that, others don't have to do it, but it IS the best practice. I'm just saying that it's far less important than it used to be. Shoot, you know my network. I've even gone so far as to split it into two halves with different upstreams. And what did the average customer see when that happened? Nothing. Well the ones in Odessa got 10 megs of service to the ap rather than 1.5, but other than that, no noticable change. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Hello Marlon, How do you figure a residential client (or any client for that matter) ties up three IPs? I can see four IPs (/30) or simply one IP out of a larger subnet dedicated to the sector. We typically assign a /29, /28 or /27 to a Trango 60* sector and assign one public IP to each CPE router. The radios get private space to conserve public IP space as well as increase security. IMO, each client deserves one public IP for a variety of reasons. Two come quickly to mind. First, if a client becomes infected with a SPAM virus he'll only get himself blacklisted and not a bunch of clients that happen to also be NAT'd behind the same IP address. Second, even a basic cable modem client gets one public IP address. No reason to give the cable guy a leg up over your service over one IP! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Yeah, the waters in the routed vs. bridged argument are getting more and more muddied all of the time. How many wasted ip's are there in a routed network? Lots. This is a big misconception. I don't have time to go into it here, but the truth of the matter is that what you are calling wasted is better described as a cost in exchange for a benefit. It's a very high cost. Why does every residential user need to tie up 3 ip addys? How long can we keep handing them out like that before we run into trouble again? There is only so much nat that we're gonna get away with. What are the benefits of a routed network? More control and better customer isolation. This is only one of the benefits. Scalability especially in a wireless network is a benefit. Alvarion offering VLAN will provide some of the scalability and other benefits that routing will offer. If you think that VLANs are a scalable solution, look over the networks owned by the tier 1 providers and see what they are using...routed with BGP. With the new ap's that block client to client isolation, with vlan switches, bandwidth controlling cpe (or other solutions) and features like what Patrick is talking about routing is becoming less and less critical every day. No...it's becoming less and less used toward the customer because more and more people are getting into the business of providing internet service without understanding HOW or WHY their network would function better if it were not bridged. You can argue that point if you want, but I have moved more networks from bridged to routed with positive results than the other way around. (there is one notable exception, but I think those results are a bit skewed for other reasons.) Is bridging easier? Yes. Is it common? Among smaller providers, yes. Is is scalable? Only if you use some other technology (such as vlan) to create the separation between the endpoints. As I said, even with VLANs, there is a limit to the scale the network can reach without some routing. solution. They vlan customers into a single port to the isp. Basically frame a fancy switch, almost frame relay. No routing used at all. We don't even have a good option for routing at the You don't think their networks are routed? Look at your border router...the public interface is going to have a /30 address...your range of public IP space is routed via that /30 address. You are incorrect in your assumption that there is no routing used at all. On the client side that's not correct. We have ONE vlan port. ALL of our fiber customers connect right in to that vlan. That vlan hits a switch on our network, right beside one of the main wireless links. No routing till it hits the customer's site. customer other than doing it just because. It's certainly not a requirement. No...not a requirement. It's just a more scalable solution. There are nearly 4000 (unfortunately not all mine :-) 100meg customers on that network. Maybe if you are a HUGE isp but certainly not for a few hundreds subs. Hundreds of subs it's still a maybe. And with thousands I'd disagree here, too. But, I've only been an ISP since 1993, so what do I know... Grin. The technology included in the VL line makes it easier to build a network that can be run by less technical staff. There is a cost savings there too. It is true that the VL line of products offer some real options. VLANs are a GOOD tool, and having this option DOES offer some cool upsale possibilities. But, VLANs are not intended to be a replacement for a routed network. I've been in this business for a long time. I've built several
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
In a lab yes. In my noise floor, real throughout is no where close to that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: cw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients SR9 on WAR at 5MHz is about 6Mb Tom DeReggi wrote: We are finding that for most of the OEM 900 product though, best case speed gets close to 1mbps on a 5mhz channel. So Trango, is still our dominent choice, from towers,m where we do not need the flexibility and low cost of relaying. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
First, we were talking 900 not 5.8. VL isn't going to go through 2 miles of trees. But your math is not wrong. Anywhere one anticipates that they can get 25 subecribers from a cell site, VL is likely the preferred choice. The problem is that there are many areas where 25 clients off an AP will never be an option. Most places that we install StarOS, have no more than 3 CPEs running off them. Sometimes even only 1. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joe Laura [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients It is a fair question and what I would say is that the AU is an even more critical point in the network. Our AUs have options to be inserted into chassis with redundant power supplies, etc. The difference in cost of the AU is minimal when working out the entire cost of the sector and its clients, especially when working in the OPEX issues. For example, OPEX aside, let's say you are in the AlvarionCOMNET program and buy at the minimum level of 25 CPE, which would get you a $285/CPE cost with free shipping. Let's assume all 25 of those attach to a VL sector. In that case the sector will cost you about $1900 plus $285 x 25, or $9,025. The equivalent size network at Mikrotik with the prices in this thread would be $348 x 25 + the $500 AU or $9,200 + shipping. So, not even counting the OPEX issues, reduced truck roll, and shipping we are $175 cheaper. Then add in the 1 year free warranty, domestic support, FCC legality, and higher equity value of the network. Let's not forget no user license fees, no fee for new software upgrades. Is my math wrong? The business equation seems simple unless I am seriously missing something. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Laura Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 5:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients But is your A/P under $500.00 like the RB532 and SR9? K, Im just kidding. Its Friday. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Dang, that's as much as $100 more than a real BreezeACCESS CPE (under the AlvarionCOMNET program) without needing to piece things together so the points of failure risk and truck roll is both much smaller, not to mention a warranty and domestic supply and support. VL CPE comes with mounting hardware too and the cable. Our stuff is also all fully FCC legal. (donning flame suit now) - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Exactly, after you add the rootenna, you are at $348, plus International Shipping charges (if in US). Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: cw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients http://www.star-v3.com/store/ $262 ea in ten packs + roo. Rick Smith wrote: Where are people buying their SR9 client setups, if at all ? What kind of pricing per CPE I'm looking at a couple places, and coming back with like $350 each for a rootenna / cable / SR9 / P.S. and RB112 Anyone see anything different ? R -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email
