Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
The big thing here is... Is one selling revenue or selling a network? If one is selling revenue, the buyer could probably care less what allows the revenue to happen. But personally, I Don;t want to jsut sell revenue, I want to get credit for my infrastructure also. If a network is installed

Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
I agree than name brand gear, is a safer bet for a WISP, which is why I primarilly use Name brand certified gear. However your been there done that areguement for 802.11B does not apply. There is a BIG difference between todays flexible 802.11a gear and last generation legacy 802.11b. Tom

Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
I always get jealous when I hear the stories where people can pull off using Omni's in 900. In our neck of the woods it is IMPOSSIBLE to get 360 degree of free spectrum on the same channel. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message -

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion vs Moto/802.11 network value

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
Somethings don't need proof, to be known to be true. I also don't feel there are many real world evaluations that give credability to what a valuation can end up being based on equipment. There are to many factors in a sale, to know exactly why the price was or wasn't gotten. My proof is just

Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
The real significant value will come when AP bandwdith management will allow bandwdith management on individual VLAN tags. Meaning, if 10 customers reside behind 1 CPE, 10 seperate bandwidth management assignments can be made for them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed

[WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread John Scrivner
Tom DeReggi wrote: The big thing here is... Is one selling revenue or selling a network? Both. No way around it. If one is selling revenue, the buyer could probably care less what allows the revenue to happen. I have been looking at other WISPs around me for possible merge / acquisition

Re: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)...

2006-12-03 Thread David E. Smith
Butch Evans wrote: There are nearly 4000 (unfortunately not all mine :-) 100meg customers on that network. I don't want to argue this point, because I just don't have enough information about the network. I seriously doubt, though, that all those customers are all on a single /20 network

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion vs Moto/802.11 network value

2006-12-03 Thread Dylan Oliver
On 12/3/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somethings don't need proof, to be known to be true. I also don't feel there are many real world evaluations that give credability to what a valuation can end up being based on equipment. There are to many factors in a sale, to know exactly why

[WISPA] Broadband task force gets Humboldt representation

2006-12-03 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Ann Johnson-Stromberg/The Times-Standard Article Launched:12/02/2006 04:31:50 AM PST A month ago Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ended the public battle with Caltrans over fee barriers to broadband deployment and now the North Coast's position on the front lines of the fight are paying off. The

Re: [WISPA] WISPA has a new Vendor Menber - Welcome FSM Marketing Group, Inc.

2006-12-03 Thread Frank Muto
Thank you John, for that kind introduction. I am looking forward to working with WISPA and supporting the members of the association. While I have not operated or worked for a WISP, there are many of the same issues I once had when operating our dialup ISP. If I may, I would like to provide a

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
Nobody in unlicensed is going to get 6X Thats where you are wrong. However, the value of a higher Multiple is relevent to the amount of customers one has and what stage of development the company is in. For example, If I bulit a network today, the very first day after it was turned live,

Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
How many ip addys does each customer need in a fully routed network? gateway, ip and broadcast. I see that as three. Or does a /30 use up four? Either way, by bridging each customer only needs one. The benefits that come with routing to each customer can be made up for by using a router

Re: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)...

2006-12-03 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
- Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)... On Sat, 2 Dec 2006, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: It's a very high cost. Why does every

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread John Scrivner
Tom, I do not mind having my posts clipped for content when replying but I do mind it when you do it mid-sentence and change what I said. My sentence read, Nobody in unlicensed is going to get 6X unless they have a network doing 10s of millions of dollars a year in revenues or a smaller

RE: [WISPA] WISPA has a new Vendor Member - Welcome FSM MarketingGroup, Inc.

2006-12-03 Thread Mac Dearman
Welcome Frank! I am really glad to see you here and even more glad to see you and your Company becoming a part of WISPA. I feel that we will be good for each other and look forward to a long fruitful relationship. Sincerely, Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Rayville, La. www.inetsouth.com

Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 3 Dec 2006, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: How many ip addys does each customer need in a fully routed network? gateway, ip and broadcast. I see that as three. Or does a /30 use up four? The customer will still use 1. Either way, by bridging each customer only needs one. your

RE: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)...

2006-12-03 Thread Russ Kreigh
I can't believe I am getting involved in this... First, routing is not bad, or the best solution. Bridging is not bad, or the best solution. Network DESIGN is the solution. A hybrid network DESIGNED by a competent network person will outperform a pure bridged network or a pure routed network

RE: SPAM ? Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Mac Dearman
Marlon says: How many ip addys does each customer need in a fully routed network? * One! gateway, ip and broadcast. I see that as three. Or does a /30 use up four? * That depends on how many clients you have off that AP. I generally use a /24 at each tower - or a group of smaller towers.

RE: SPAM ? RE: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)...

2006-12-03 Thread Mac Dearman
Amen Amen Well said and I must confess - - way shorter than my previous post :-) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russ Kreigh Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 1:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: SPAM ? RE: [WISPA] Routed vs

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Peter R.
Tom DeReggi wrote: Nobody in unlicensed is going to get 6X Thats where you are wrong. However, the value of a higher Multiple is relevent to the amount of customers one has and what stage of development the company is in. Nope. No one is currently paying 6X. Most I have seen is 2.5X.

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Peter R.
John Scrivner wrote: From a resell standpoint, at that moment in time, your company could well be worth less than what you paid to build it. It is just like driving a car off the lot. It depreciates thousands of dollars the first few feet off the lot. CLEC's are a great example of not

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
A seller doesn't necessarilly need to allow the buyer to get an ROI on the existing revenue that he is buying. The buyer gets an ROI on the increased revenue (above what the company is already doing) that he generates after he buys it. If someone has a network that runs itself, and has clients

RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Brad Belton
lol...Butch beat me to the punch. Marlon stated: How many ip addys does each customer need in a fully routed network? gateway, ip and broadcast. I see that as three. Or does a /30 use up four? I still don't see how you add what you stated above as three: Network (1) Gateway (2) IP

RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Chris Cooper
Not sure I follow you Dennis- are you purchasing these new for this price or is this what you are valuing them at takeover? Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:25 PM To:

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Travis Johnson
So you are saying you haven't seen more than 2.5X the monthly revenue? We sold a division of our company for 12X the monthly revenue + the FMV of the equipment in 2001. The current going rate that I have seen is more around 12X monthly + equipment infrastructure. Travis Microserv Peter R.

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Travis Johnson
John, During the last ten years we have purchased and sold several ISP's... and I can tell you that you NEVER want to purchase the corporation. You want to do an asset only purchase. So you are buying the equipment (for whatever value you want to put on it) and the customer base. Then,

RE: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Brad Belton
I think in most cases I've seen they are referring to a multiple of yearly revenue not monthly. So your 12x monthly is equal to 1x yearly. Determining a valuation of a company is rarely performed with only one factor taken into account. Simply saying an operation is worth x times yearly revenue

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Travis Johnson
Brad, This is where I have to disagree with you... what type of CPE is much more important for me than the backhaul used. As an example, if the CPE is 802.11b and they have 1,000 customers, I have to visit 1,000 locations and upgrade every single customer. However, if they are using Trango,

Re: [WISPA] bare conduits

2006-12-03 Thread Ron Wallace
Yes Mrlon, Pulling cable in NoCAL, we made a 'y' for the compressor, Air in one side sponge-on-line in the straight side. Gave it to the guys, one was a careful guy. A little while later I pulled up to the site and the guys were all laughing, watch this ron!, they set it up for a 300' 'blow'

RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

2006-12-03 Thread Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
New.. www.highgainantennas.com. These are 2.4 though. You an do a 900 for what, a bit over 300. We charge 350 to make sure we are in the green. Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.2kwireless.com 2K Wireless provides high-speed internet access, along

RE: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)...

2006-12-03 Thread Butch Evans
On Sun, 3 Dec 2006, Mac Dearman wrote: SUMMARY: USE THE SHOE THAT FITS - ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL - EVER! This is good advice. For those that think I am religous regarding this argument, are mis-reading my statements. I am only dispelling bad information. At any rate, there is certainly

Re: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)...

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
I can tell you from experience, confgiuring with VLAN can be encumbering (we do it almost everywhere), and I don't recommend it for everyone. But having the ability to configure it when you need it is really usefull. For example, lets say I have two client off of one sector, and I want to run

Re: [WISPA] Network Valuation Considerations

2006-12-03 Thread Tom DeReggi
John, My error, sorry about that. But I disagree still with your comment. I think I may be being misunderstood. I'd argue that a company doing millions of dollars and/or Smaller High ARPU business are LESS LIKELY to get higher Multiples. The reason is that the businesses are already matured