RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades

2006-12-14 Thread Rick Smith
now that's cool.

See if Brandon can figure out the how many hosts are behind that IP
address solution where you can then figure out who's reselling your service
or just plain sharing it with everyone and their neighbor, at your expense.

I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell you
the mac address of the host behind the NAT box...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:38 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades

Brandon has just made some changes on our tracking system.

The biggest one is that we can now see top users per day.  This will allow
us to follow more of what's going on at night.  Like yesterday, someone sent
3 gigs up to the net.  They've got something on their machine that they are
really not gonna want.

Trying to pick that one customer out of all of the traffic that normally
goes on was a real pain.  With the new stuff it was a cake walk.

radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack

laters,
marlon

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Re: [WISPA] ISPCON Orlando May 23-25

2006-12-14 Thread Matt Liotta

Tom DeReggi wrote:
We currently got a 30 mbps wireless link from our master data center 
to an Internap datacenter building, about 1/4 mile away.
We were thinking of getting a second transit from them, and upgrading 
the link speed to their building. At that distance even 60Ghz could work.


We don't buy Internap bandwidth. Their bandwidth may be good, but the 
lack of control and their lack of peering is a problem for us. It 
appears they are now fixing the peering issue. We bought the route 
optimization appliance so we could keep control and get the benefits of 
their route optimization technology.


We of course sell our premium transit very cheaply to other WISPs and 
has you know we are now built out in DC and Northern VA.


-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] ISPCON Orlando May 23-25

2006-12-14 Thread Peter R.

Speaker submissions are next week for the show in May in Orlando.
http://www.ispcon.com/speak.php

Doug Hass wrote:


Another good topic for ISPCON would be an introduction to OLSR (Optimized Link
State Routing).  This routing protocol is beginning to replace OSPF on wireless
ISP networks and other mobile and meshed networks.  I've found that many
providers don't know it even exists, much less how to use it.

I'd be happy to speak on this as well.

Doug
 


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RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades

2006-12-14 Thread Butch Evans

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Rick Smith wrote:

I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will 
tell you the mac address of the host behind the NAT box...


No..not the mac address, but it is reasonable to guess the number of 
computers behind a nat device.  This is based on the TCP timestamp, 
if I recall correctly.  There are a few whitepapers floating around, 
that google probably could find for you.. :-)


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Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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Re: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
That might be interesting.  In our case we don't mind (much) if that 
happens.  Naturally, it's totally against out TOS.  However, we bill per 
bit.  If you want to share it with everyone around you, you just have to pay 
for the privilege.  And I don't get stuck with all of the tech support :-).


One thing I wish I did have was something that would tell me what protocol 
people were using most.  I think that might help me spot the ptp junkies.


I did ask him to add an average figure anywhere there was a total.  Like 
what's the average of all users?  How about the top 25 users?  etc.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:55 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades



now that's cool.

See if Brandon can figure out the how many hosts are behind that IP
address solution where you can then figure out who's reselling your 
service
or just plain sharing it with everyone and their neighbor, at your 
expense.


I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell 
you

the mac address of the host behind the NAT box...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:38 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades

Brandon has just made some changes on our tracking system.

The biggest one is that we can now see top users per day.  This will allow
us to follow more of what's going on at night.  Like yesterday, someone 
sent
3 gigs up to the net.  They've got something on their machine that they 
are

really not gonna want.

Trying to pick that one customer out of all of the traffic that normally
goes on was a real pain.  With the new stuff it was a cake walk.

radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack

laters,
marlon

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[WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Hi All,

As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed.  All of our customers go as 
fast as we can make them go.  They do have to be responsible users though.


To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit.  When I say gig, I mean 
it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be.  So I guess that's byte not 
bit.  Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits per 
second to bits transferred.


Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking software 
that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it.  (The 
original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up user 
in 1999 used 110 meg per month.)  Today, I've raised the included service 
level to 4 gigs.


The 5th gig is an extra $5.  The next one is $10, then $20, then $40 etc. 
etc. etc.  By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me for 
over $5,000,000.  Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really 
expected to.


However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to $40 
per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month.  If someone is using a lot 
of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for.  One is 
that I pay for internet access based on usage.  So the more the customers 
use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month!  Next, there is 
only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a particular 
zone we have to add capacity for them.


In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of the 
customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit. 
Customers like this one 
http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112month=12year=2006period=month 
they do more than 4 gigs almost every day.


I'm looking for two things.  One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of 
data transfer rate, how many gigs would they use per month.  (we pay for 
internet based on the mbps rates we consume)


Next, what's a more reasonable overage table?  Our minimum bill for anything 
at all here is $5.00 just to cover the costs of writing the bill.


I want to keep billing per bit.  It's, by far, the most effective way to 
compete against cable and dsl.  It's also a good way to push the hogs over 
to competing services.  Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs per 
month.  This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50 
gigs last month.  So I'll bet that the average user is actually under 1.5 
gigs per month.


Thoughts and ideas
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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[WISPA] Grrrr... pigtails

2006-12-14 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Thanksgiving day, my son and I put up a future customer's CPE up in the
woods.  I mean, up in the mountains, log cabin, beyond phone and power.
They have a generator, batteries, solar panels, etc. We did it because snow
was predicted and already a little bit had fallen.   We got it there, link
established and was working on aiming the antenna when the laptop ran out of
power.   The power plug on the laptop PSU had broken and, well... we were
dead.

The people got back a few days later, and by then, yes, quite a bit of snow
had fallen.   When we had the chance to go back and finish ( plug the power
in inside, hook up thier equipment) we had no signal.

We tried everything we  could think of, short of changing parts, because we
didn't take any (wasn't our install rig, just a 4x4 so we could get through
the deep snow), no signal.

Yesterday, after a few days of warm, we drove in ( this time, install rig,
my '89 Caravan ) digging through some deep snow going in the canyon between
them and the main road.

Eventually, we changed every part, including the WAR board and SR9, no
signal.   Then, I assembled the WAR we took out and all the parts changed
out, and standing there, on the ground...  I had a solid link.

Finally, in pitch black dark, I climbed the ladder, had someone provide some
light, and hooked up the SR9 through another pigtail to the anntenna...
POOF, signal.

Put the original back on...  Poof, signal.  then, none.   Work  the pigtail
around so it's not tensioned and in line and put it back on... Poof, signal.

I go inside, log in...and in a minute or so, watch the signal fade to
nothing.

T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in
the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR
board combination.

I found one of the crapola thing things I had rejected for 5 ghz use and put
it in place...  Yeah, 1 or 2 db loss in the piggy, but it stayed on...

Anyone make a low loss pigtail that's flexible even in the cold?   I tried
two different ones, one pacwireless, one is Roger's, I think.  Neither could
be convinced to retain a new shape in the cold...



+++
neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington
email me at mark at neofast dot net
541-969-8200
Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net

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Re: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades

2006-12-14 Thread Mark Nash - Lists
If your IP addy's aren't changing often you can use ntop to classify traffic
for you.  I use it to tell whether or not traffic is human-generated or if
it's from a worm or p2p.

http://www.ntop.org

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades


 That might be interesting.  In our case we don't mind (much) if that
 happens.  Naturally, it's totally against out TOS.  However, we bill per
 bit.  If you want to share it with everyone around you, you just have to
pay
 for the privilege.  And I don't get stuck with all of the tech support
:-).

 One thing I wish I did have was something that would tell me what protocol
 people were using most.  I think that might help me spot the ptp junkies.

 I did ask him to add an average figure anywhere there was a total.  Like
 what's the average of all users?  How about the top 25 users?  etc.
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message - 
 From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:55 AM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades


  now that's cool.
 
  See if Brandon can figure out the how many hosts are behind that IP
  address solution where you can then figure out who's reselling your
  service
  or just plain sharing it with everyone and their neighbor, at your
  expense.
 
  I've heard there's a set of bytes in the netflow headers that will tell
  you
  the mac address of the host behind the NAT box...
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
  Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:38 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] more ip tracking upgrades
 
  Brandon has just made some changes on our tracking system.
 
  The biggest one is that we can now see top users per day.  This will
allow
  us to follow more of what's going on at night.  Like yesterday, someone
  sent
  3 gigs up to the net.  They've got something on their machine that they
  are
  really not gonna want.
 
  Trying to pick that one customer out of all of the traffic that normally
  goes on was a real pain.  With the new stuff it was a cake walk.
 
  radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack
 
  laters,
  marlon
 
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RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Larry A Weidig
Marlon:
The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month
day:

Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30
days / 8 bits/byte
  = 324,000,000,000

The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes.
I use  1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion.
Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7
GB! 
We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the
limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers.
The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the
limit by our bandwidth monitor.  If they want to pump the speed back up
they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at
about the same as the monthly cost for the service.  This definitely
cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest
on the network.
For business customers we just price service accordingly and do
not place transfer limits on these accounts.  That is just my 2 cents
worth, hope it helps.

Larry 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help

Hi All,

As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed.  All of our customers
go as 
fast as we can make them go.  They do have to be responsible users
though.

To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit.  When I say gig, I
mean 
it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be.  So I guess that's byte
not 
bit.  Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits
per 
second to bits transferred.

Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking
software 
that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it.  (The 
original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up
user 
in 1999 used 110 meg per month.)  Today, I've raised the included
service 
level to 4 gigs.

The 5th gig is an extra $5.  The next one is $10, then $20, then $40
etc. 
etc. etc.  By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me
for 
over $5,000,000.  Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really

expected to.

However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to
$40 
per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month.  If someone is using a
lot 
of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for.  One
is 
that I pay for internet access based on usage.  So the more the
customers 
use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month!  Next, there
is 
only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a
particular 
zone we have to add capacity for them.

In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of
the 
customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit. 
Customers like this one 
http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112mont
h=12year=2006period=month 
they do more than 4 gigs almost every day.

I'm looking for two things.  One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of

data transfer rate, how many gigs would they use per month.  (we pay for

internet based on the mbps rates we consume)

Next, what's a more reasonable overage table?  Our minimum bill for
anything 
at all here is $5.00 just to cover the costs of writing the bill.

I want to keep billing per bit.  It's, by far, the most effective way to

compete against cable and dsl.  It's also a good way to push the hogs
over 
to competing services.  Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs
per 
month.  This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50

gigs last month.  So I'll bet that the average user is actually under
1.5 
gigs per month.

Thoughts and ideas
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

That helps.

Thanks!

As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw.

In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link.  I pay for internet at $200 per month 
based on our average usage.  In and out are combined.


In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber link.  I 
pay for internet at $250 at the 95%.  This is the one that's killing me. 
When we moved to this new upstream provider our connectivity improved 
noticeably.  Our costs have also now gone up because things work so much 
better than they did.


I really don't want to rate limit people.  But I've got to figure out a way 
to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 30 megs at a 
fiber customer's location via speakeasy!  grin  Maybe I'll see if Butch can 
come up with something that will choke people back after 10 minutes of 
anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them down down down till they stop 
using the net for an hour or two.  Wonder how hard it would be to set up the 
MT boxes to do that?


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help


Marlon:
The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month
day:

Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30
days / 8 bits/byte
 = 324,000,000,000

The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes.
I use  1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion.
Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7
GB!
We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the
limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers.
The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the
limit by our bandwidth monitor.  If they want to pump the speed back up
they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at
about the same as the monthly cost for the service.  This definitely
cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest
on the network.
For business customers we just price service accordingly and do
not place transfer limits on these accounts.  That is just my 2 cents
worth, hope it helps.

Larry


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help

Hi All,

As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed.  All of our customers
go as
fast as we can make them go.  They do have to be responsible users
though.

To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit.  When I say gig, I
mean
it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be.  So I guess that's byte
not
bit.  Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits
per
second to bits transferred.

Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking
software
that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it.  (The
original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up
user
in 1999 used 110 meg per month.)  Today, I've raised the included
service
level to 4 gigs.

The 5th gig is an extra $5.  The next one is $10, then $20, then $40
etc.
etc. etc.  By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me
for
over $5,000,000.  Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really

expected to.

However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to
$40
per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month.  If someone is using a
lot
of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for.  One
is
that I pay for internet access based on usage.  So the more the
customers
use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month!  Next, there
is
only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a
particular
zone we have to add capacity for them.

In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of
the
customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit.
Customers like this one
http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112mont
h=12year=2006period=month
they do more than 4 gigs almost every day.

I'm looking for two things.  One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of

data transfer rate, how many gigs would they use per month.  (we pay for

internet based on the mbps rates we consume)

Next, what's a more reasonable overage table?  Our minimum bill for
anything
at all here is $5.00 just to cover the costs of writing the bill.

I want 

[WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Forbes Mercy
We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack much 
more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically three 
types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New 
Smartbridges replacements which don’t seem to want to consistently stay up and 
Engenius AP's.

The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through 
username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can 
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our 
billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the Engenius has 
to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is 
essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges. 
 

We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes 
forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading 
internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with 
good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006
 
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RE: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Rick Smith

http://www.mikrotik.com hands down these days.
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] AP Search

We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack
much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically
three types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable,
the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently
stay up and Engenius AP's.

The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through
username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to
our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the
Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the
AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the
smartbridges.  

We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but
takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow
loading internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old
2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006
 
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RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
You can setup limits based on a block of Ips, you can say, 2 meg for say 30
min, then drop them down to another speed, such as 128k.   This is very
effective; however, the hard part is that this is an overall rate for a
specific IP.  So if you have a business with 20 users behind their router,
it's an average over all the users.  One user can slow the rest of the
network down.  Not to mention that slows down web access.

As far as running multiple, I DON'T think you can do that.  Multiple, being,
after so long turn them down to this, then after so long turn them down to
this, unless that was a script looking at overall bits transferred.  

The simplest thing to do is to start charging that customer that is pulling
30+ gigs a month, and charge him for that. Either that customer will pay or
get off of your internet service and got your completion.

I remember a Dialup ISP doing something like that in the past, they looked
at there base and found 4%, and it was a specifc 4% of their users caused
90% of all of the helpdesk calls. 

They said, you can have this cheaper rate, but if you have to call in, we
will charge you per min (people PC like) or you can discontinue service with
us. 

Even after about 1/2 of them customers they sent this letter to left, they
ended up letting 3 techs go, and were actually saving more than double the
cost that those dial up customers income brought in.

Same difference.

Dennis


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help

That helps.

Thanks!

As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw.

In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link.  I pay for internet at $200 per month 
based on our average usage.  In and out are combined.

In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber link.  I 
pay for internet at $250 at the 95%.  This is the one that's killing me. 
When we moved to this new upstream provider our connectivity improved 
noticeably.  Our costs have also now gone up because things work so much 
better than they did.

I really don't want to rate limit people.  But I've got to figure out a way 
to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 30 megs at a 
fiber customer's location via speakeasy!  grin  Maybe I'll see if Butch can 
come up with something that will choke people back after 10 minutes of 
anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them down down down till they stop 
using the net for an hour or two.  Wonder how hard it would be to set up the

MT boxes to do that?

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help


Marlon:
The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month
day:

Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30
days / 8 bits/byte
  = 324,000,000,000

The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes.
I use  1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion.
Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7
GB!
We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the
limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers.
The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the
limit by our bandwidth monitor.  If they want to pump the speed back up
they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at
about the same as the monthly cost for the service.  This definitely
cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest
on the network.
For business customers we just price service accordingly and do
not place transfer limits on these accounts.  That is just my 2 cents
worth, hope it helps.

Larry


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help

Hi All,

As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed.  All of our customers
go as
fast as we can make them go.  They do have to be responsible users
though.

To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit.  When I say gig, I
mean
it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be.  So I guess that's byte
not
bit.  Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits
per
second to bits transferred.

Anyhow, using the data we got from that 

RE: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
MT is the ideal access point.

New smartbridges sux, I have seen so many people say that they have had
issues with them.

Passing the username/password, such as a PPPOE session is no problem.  It
can terminte right at the access point with a MT.  Using radius is no issue
either.  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] AP Search

We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack
much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically
three types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable,
the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently
stay up and Engenius AP's.

The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through
username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to
our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the
Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the
AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the
smartbridges.  

We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but
takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow
loading internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old
2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006
 
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RE: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
Or you can hotspot EVERY access point!  Mac authencation is no issue. Or you
can do the PPPoE thing too.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:08 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] AP Search

MT is the ideal access point.

New smartbridges sux, I have seen so many people say that they have had
issues with them.

Passing the username/password, such as a PPPOE session is no problem.  It
can terminte right at the access point with a MT.  Using radius is no issue
either.  


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] AP Search

We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack
much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically
three types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable,
the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently
stay up and Engenius AP's.

The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through
username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to
our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the
Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the
AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the
smartbridges.  

We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but
takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow
loading internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old
2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/585 - Release Date: 12/13/2006
 
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Re: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
StarOS would handle this easily.  I tried Mikrotik with a setup like 
this, and it just didn't work quite right. 

FWIW, I have a StarOS AP with approx 50 customers on it that has been up 
for almost a year.  Not a single reboot, just works. 


StarOS will also do hotspot type authentication as well.

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Forbes Mercy wrote:

We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack much 
more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically three 
types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, the New 
Smartbridges replacements which don’t seem to want to consistently stay up and 
Engenius AP's.

The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the smartbridges.  


We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but takes 
forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow loading 
internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old 2510' s with 
good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

  


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RE: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
Matt, I am curious,

I have used staros, and it is a good OS.  Don't get me wrong.  It does work
and it works well.  I am wondering what about the MT in the setup did you
not like, or like better in star os?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] AP Search

StarOS would handle this easily.  I tried Mikrotik with a setup like 
this, and it just didn't work quite right. 

FWIW, I have a StarOS AP with approx 50 customers on it that has been up 
for almost a year.  Not a single reboot, just works. 

StarOS will also do hotspot type authentication as well.

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Forbes Mercy wrote:
 We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack
much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically
three types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable,
the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently
stay up and Engenius AP's.

 The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through
username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to
our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the
Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the
AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the
smartbridges.  

 We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but
takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow
loading internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old
2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.

 Thanks,
 Forbes Mercy
 President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

   

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Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Jason

Gang,

   What's everyone using to do rate limiting or bandwidth shaping.  
Bandwidth shaping is something I'm interested in.  Are there any linux 
packages that can do this well?


Jason

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

That helps.

Thanks!

As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw.

In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link.  I pay for internet at $200 per 
month based on our average usage.  In and out are combined.


In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber 
link.  I pay for internet at $250 at the 95%.  This is the one that's 
killing me. When we moved to this new upstream provider our 
connectivity improved noticeably.  Our costs have also now gone up 
because things work so much better than they did.


I really don't want to rate limit people.  But I've got to figure out 
a way to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 
30 megs at a fiber customer's location via speakeasy!  grin  Maybe 
I'll see if Butch can come up with something that will choke people 
back after 10 minutes of anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them 
down down down till they stop using the net for an hour or two.  
Wonder how hard it would be to set up the MT boxes to do that?


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help


Marlon:
The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month
day:

Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30
days / 8 bits/byte
 = 324,000,000,000

The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes.
I use  1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion.
Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7
GB!
We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the
limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers.
The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the
limit by our bandwidth monitor.  If they want to pump the speed back up
they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at
about the same as the monthly cost for the service.  This definitely
cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest
on the network.
For business customers we just price service accordingly and do
not place transfer limits on these accounts.  That is just my 2 cents
worth, hope it helps.

Larry


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help

Hi All,

As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed.  All of our customers
go as
fast as we can make them go.  They do have to be responsible users
though.

To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit.  When I say gig, I
mean
it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be.  So I guess that's byte
not
bit.  Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits
per
second to bits transferred.

Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking
software
that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it.  (The
original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up
user
in 1999 used 110 meg per month.)  Today, I've raised the included
service
level to 4 gigs.

The 5th gig is an extra $5.  The next one is $10, then $20, then $40
etc.
etc. etc.  By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me
for
over $5,000,000.  Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really

expected to.

However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to
$40
per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month.  If someone is using a
lot
of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for.  One
is
that I pay for internet access based on usage.  So the more the
customers
use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month!  Next, there
is
only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a
particular
zone we have to add capacity for them.

In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of
the
customer base that are costing us money instead of generating a profit.
Customers like this one
http://radius.odessaoffice.com/iptrack/search.php?ip=64.146.146.112mont
h=12year=2006period=month
they do more than 4 gigs almost every day.

I'm looking for two things.  One is, if someone had a constant 1 mbps of

data transfer rate, how many gigs would 

RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT MT 

Oh and MT ...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help

Gang,

What's everyone using to do rate limiting or bandwidth shaping.  
Bandwidth shaping is something I'm interested in.  Are there any linux 
packages that can do this well?

Jason

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
 That helps.

 Thanks!

 As an fyi here's what I pay for my bw.

 In Odessa I have a 10 meg fiber link.  I pay for internet at $200 per 
 month based on our average usage.  In and out are combined.

 In Ephrata, where we have the servers etc. I have a 100 meg fiber 
 link.  I pay for internet at $250 at the 95%.  This is the one that's 
 killing me. When we moved to this new upstream provider our 
 connectivity improved noticeably.  Our costs have also now gone up 
 because things work so much better than they did.

 I really don't want to rate limit people.  But I've got to figure out 
 a way to keep that 95th% thing down better but still be able to pull 
 30 megs at a fiber customer's location via speakeasy!  grin  Maybe 
 I'll see if Butch can come up with something that will choke people 
 back after 10 minutes of anything over say, 2 megs, then slow them 
 down down down till they stop using the net for an hour or two.  
 Wonder how hard it would be to set up the MT boxes to do that?

 laters,
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:05 AM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Overage plan help


 Marlon:
 The first part is pretty easy, we will just assume a 30 month
 day:

 Bytes = 1,000,000 bps * 60 seconds/min * 60 min/hour * 24 hours/day * 30
 days / 8 bits/byte
  = 324,000,000,000

 The next part to covert to gigabytes is where people will have disputes.
 I use  1GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes, but you can see
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte for the entire discussion.
 Therefore in a month of continuous transfer they would move about 301.7
 GB!
 We also charge residential customers for transfer and have the
 limit set at 4GB which is more than enough for 95%+ of our customers.
 The other 5% simply get slowed down to dialup rates when they cross the
 limit by our bandwidth monitor.  If they want to pump the speed back up
 they need to pay for additional transfer which we sell in 4GB blocks at
 about the same as the monthly cost for the service.  This definitely
 cuts down on the abusers of the system which are of course the hardest
 on the network.
 For business customers we just price service accordingly and do
 not place transfer limits on these accounts.  That is just my 2 cents
 worth, hope it helps.

 Larry


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
 Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:21 AM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
 Subject: [WISPA] Overage plan help

 Hi All,

 As most of you know, we bill for bits not speed.  All of our customers
 go as
 fast as we can make them go.  They do have to be responsible users
 though.

 To this end we had a 1 gig per month transfer limit.  When I say gig, I
 mean
 it in the sense of what 1mbps service would be.  So I guess that's byte
 not
 bit.  Though I must admit, I get mixed up on the translation from bits
 per
 second to bits transferred.

 Anyhow, using the data we got from that great new usage tracking
 software
 that Brandon wrote for us, it's clear that 1 gig won't cut it.  (The
 original 1 gig is the result of figuring out that our average dial-up
 user
 in 1999 used 110 meg per month.)  Today, I've raised the included
 service
 level to 4 gigs.

 The 5th gig is an extra $5.  The next one is $10, then $20, then $40
 etc.
 etc. etc.  By the time you hit 25 gigs of data transfer, you're into me
 for
 over $5,000,000.  Naturally, no one will pay that and they aren't really

 expected to.

 However, our billing rate is designed for folks that are spending $35 to
 $40
 per month and doing less than 4 gigs per month.  If someone is using a
 lot
 of data there are two main issues that I have to recover costs for.  One
 is
 that I pay for internet access based on usage.  So the more the
 customers
 use the more I have to pay, and it's up by 15% last month!  Next, there
 is
 only so much capacity on each tower, if we have heavy users in a
 particular
 zone we have to add capacity for them.

 In the end, what I'm trying to do is either bill or run off the 5% of
 the
 customer 

Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Frank Muto
If you have not done it already, putting everyone on your Postini system 
will decrease your mail server bandwidth substantially.




Frank Muto
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Postini Partner Reseller
http://wispa.spam-virus.com







- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I want to keep billing per bit.  It's, by far, the most effective way to 
compete against cable and dsl.  It's also a good way to push the hogs over 
to competing services.  Our average user is running at about 1.7 gigs per 
month.  This includes all of my servers and the mail server alone hit 50 
gigs last month.  So I'll bet that the average user is actually under 1.5 
gigs per month.


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Re: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
If you want radius on the AP, go get Tranzeo 6000 series radios.  I only 
have a couple of them lit, but so far so good.


laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:29 AM
Subject: [WISPA] AP Search


We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack 
much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically 
three types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable, 
the New Smartbridges replacements which don’t seem to want to consistently 
stay up and Engenius AP's.


The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through 
username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can 
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to 
our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the 
Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the 
AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the 
smartbridges.


We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but 
takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow 
loading internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old 
2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.


Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc.

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[WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
We don't put everyone on Postini.  We charge those that want the filtering 
$1 per month.  Like John and Forbes, it's cost is too high to just include 
automatically.  Instead, we make money on spam.  I'd say around half of our 
customers and almost all hosted domains take Postini.


We're actually using the usage stats to help us sell Postini.  No one wants 
to pay an overage fee just to receive all that dang spam :-).


laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Frank Muto [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage plan help


If you have not done it already, putting everyone on your Postini system 
will decrease your mail server bandwidth substantially.




Frank Muto
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Postini Partner Reseller
http://wispa.spam-virus.com







- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I want to keep billing per bit.  It's, by far, the most effective way to 
compete against cable and dsl.  It's also a good way to push the hogs 
over to competing services.  Our average user is running at about 1.7 
gigs per month.  This includes all of my servers and the mail server 
alone hit 50 gigs last month.  So I'll bet that the average user is 
actually under 1.5 gigs per month.


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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread CHUCK PROFITO
Salary? I think I remember that word...CRS you know.  Equals  leftovers,
right Tim?  
Rock soup again :-)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] salary


Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company 
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number 
isn't really fair.


We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we 
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person 
with a company of this one's size.


laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] AP Search

2006-12-14 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

Hi Dennis,

In my deployment, Mikrotik would not handle the radius authentication by 
MAC address like StarOS does.  I also like to use the Orinoco cards for 
my access points, and Mikrotik does not have a driver for those cards - 
whereas StarOS has an excellent driver. 

I wanted to try out Mikrotik on my network, and I do have a couple of MT 
APs on my network, but they are not integrated with my 
radius/provisioning system and they are going to be replaced as soon as 
I can get out to them. 


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless wrote:

Matt, I am curious,

I have used staros, and it is a good OS.  Don't get me wrong.  It does work
and it works well.  I am wondering what about the MT in the setup did you
not like, or like better in star os?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:04 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] AP Search

StarOS would handle this easily.  I tried Mikrotik with a setup like 
this, and it just didn't work quite right. 

FWIW, I have a StarOS AP with approx 50 customers on it that has been up 
for almost a year.  Not a single reboot, just works. 


StarOS will also do hotspot type authentication as well.

Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Forbes Mercy wrote:
  

We're still looking for the ideal Access Point.  We realize we can't pack


much more then 30-40 on these so that's one limitation.  We use basically
three types:  Older Smartbridges 2510 which are great units but unavailable,
the New Smartbridges replacements which don't seem to want to consistently
stay up and Engenius AP's.
  

The reason we like the Smartbridge is because it allows a pass through


username/password style of authentication that bypasses the switch so we can
have a centralized access granted in our radius server and it interfaces to
our billing.  We haven't found another like it.  On the other hand the
Engenius has to have authentication through the switch before radius so the
AP is essentially open to relaying from unethical competitors while the
smartbridges.  
  

We're pretty sick of the new smartbridges being not only unreliable but


takes forever to put in a MAC through it's overly complicated and slow
loading internal menus.  If you have any others that can work like the old
2510' s with good capacity and pass through radius please let me know.
  

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 

  



  


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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Rick Smith
I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings
lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a
wisp at around 500 users.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number
isn't really fair.

We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person
with a company of this one's size.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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RE: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Gino A. Villarini
Possibly if your arpu is $40, if arpu is around $150, compensation should be
about $100k year or so.  That's my experience

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:05 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary

I've been going through a bunch of sale / merger / buyout / funding meetings
lately, and that's about the salary they've all agreed on for an owner of a
wisp at around 500 users.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

I just take what I need home.  It doesn't amount to much but the company
pays all gas, cell phone, auto repair, computer etc. bills.  So the number
isn't really fair.

We billed an insurance company for some work that I did after a storm, we
negotiated a $4000 per month rate for me as a typical paycheck for a person
with a company of this one's size.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary


 Hi,

 Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

 What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
 percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...

 Travis
 Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Larry Yunker
IF your company is making money, the salary that you pay the CEO (assuming 
that you ARE the CEO) is really highly dependent on tax liability.


If you have your company set up as a pass-through tax entity such as a LLC, 
S Corporation, or god forbid a plain-jane partnership, then you are getting 
taxed directly on the organizations revenues.  You need to make sure that 
you pay yourself a living wage + enough to cover your tax liability on the 
organization's revenue.  Aside from that, you are just as well off if you 
leave the money in the company as if you took the money out of the company. 
If you leave money in the company, you still own that money as equity in 
the company as retained earnings.


On the other hand, if you are set up a C-corp, there are entirely different 
considerations as how to determine your salary.  We all know that a C-corp 
is a non-pass-through tax entity.  Therefore, any net profit before taxes 
are taxed at the company's tax rate and then taxed again if the company 
makes a distribution to you as a stockholder in the form of a dividend. 
Your first instinct would be to give yourself a big salary in order to 
minimize the tax burden of the company.  However, you might find that the 
company has a lower tax rate than you do personally.  Therefore, there are 
circumstances, especially with small closely-held corporations where it 
makes most sense to grant yourself a small salary and then give yourself a 
big dividend to take advantage of the 15% capital gains tax-rate.  There are 
also some methods for granting yourself stock options that yield an expense 
for the company and at the same time provide a capital gains distribution to 
you as an employee.


The bottom line is that the number you pay your CEO should be determined not 
only by what your company can currently bear but also upon what will protect 
your equity from the taxman.  What other company's pay their CEO shouldn't 
really figure into the equation.  It's more important that you figure out 
how to retain your equity/earnings and at the same time provide sufficient 
funding for the growth and prosperity of your business.


Larry Yunker
Network Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] Grrrr... pigtails

2006-12-14 Thread Tom DeReggi

T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in
the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR
board combination.


Excellent detail to bring up. Sounds like a fastener/tiedown problem to me.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: [WISPA] G... pigtails



Thanksgiving day, my son and I put up a future customer's CPE up in the
woods.  I mean, up in the mountains, log cabin, beyond phone and power.
They have a generator, batteries, solar panels, etc. We did it because 
snow

was predicted and already a little bit had fallen.   We got it there, link
established and was working on aiming the antenna when the laptop ran out 
of

power.   The power plug on the laptop PSU had broken and, well... we were
dead.

The people got back a few days later, and by then, yes, quite a bit of 
snow
had fallen.   When we had the chance to go back and finish ( plug the 
power

in inside, hook up thier equipment) we had no signal.

We tried everything we  could think of, short of changing parts, because 
we
didn't take any (wasn't our install rig, just a 4x4 so we could get 
through

the deep snow), no signal.

Yesterday, after a few days of warm, we drove in ( this time, install rig,
my '89 Caravan ) digging through some deep snow going in the canyon 
between

them and the main road.

Eventually, we changed every part, including the WAR board and SR9, no
signal.   Then, I assembled the WAR we took out and all the parts changed
out, and standing there, on the ground...  I had a solid link.

Finally, in pitch black dark, I climbed the ladder, had someone provide 
some

light, and hooked up the SR9 through another pigtail to the anntenna...
POOF, signal.

Put the original back on...  Poof, signal.  then, none.   Work  the 
pigtail
around so it's not tensioned and in line and put it back on... Poof, 
signal.


I go inside, log in...and in a minute or so, watch the signal fade to
nothing.

T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in
the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR
board combination.

I found one of the crapola thing things I had rejected for 5 ghz use and 
put

it in place...  Yeah, 1 or 2 db loss in the piggy, but it stayed on...

Anyone make a low loss pigtail that's flexible even in the cold?   I tried
two different ones, one pacwireless, one is Roger's, I think.  Neither 
could

be convinced to retain a new shape in the cold...



+++
neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East 
Washington

email me at mark at neofast dot net
541-969-8200
Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net

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Re: [WISPA] salary

2006-12-14 Thread Tom DeReggi
Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is an 
S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a repayment of 
loan?
The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed wether they 
have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: [WISPA] salary



Hi,

Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)

What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Even if you can share the 
percentage of that salary compared to annual gross revenue...


Travis
Microserv
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