[WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs
Boeing is dropping it's plans to offer wireless access on the new 787 Dreamliner. It will be using a WIRED network instead. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/301086_boeing25.html The reasons given were: 1. Reducing the aircraft weight. 2. Difficulty in getting regulatory approval in a few countries. 3. The prototype system might not have delivered the expected performance. Sure, reducing weight on an (already overweight) aircraft is good. Boeing says they are replacing 200 lbs of access points and antennas with 50 lbs of wiring; thereby saving 150 lbs. Sure regulatory approval (2.4 GHz??) might have been a problem in some country - perhaps in Elbonia or Lower Slobovia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbonia My thinking is that Boeing engineers may have simply failed to learn a lesson that some WISPs have known for years. Any knowledgeable WISP could have told Boeing that putting two dozen access points inside an airplane cabin would create so much self-interference that the system would never deliver enough throughput to satisfy customers expectations for speed and performance. jack -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs
An antenna in every row of seats??!! ~fred On 1/27/07, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boeing is dropping it's plans to offer wireless access on the new 787 Dreamliner. It will be using a WIRED network instead. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs
My thinking is that Boeing engineers may have simply failed to learn a lesson that some WISPs have known for years. Any knowledgeable WISP could have told Boeing that putting two dozen access points inside an airplane cabin would create so much self-interference that the system would never deliver enough throughput to satisfy customers expectations for speed and performance. jack You would think that a couple will do. After all, it's just a big metal tube. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Sam, Walmart has made most of its money by screwing others. Truck driver makes delivery to Walmart ad unload pallets. Goes to have receiving sign for them. Receiving refuses to sign, and says that *after* the truck driver *unloads* the items off the pallets, then he will sign. This is NOT the truck drivers responsibility. Walmart decides that a Gallon jar of pickles shoud cost $3.97-*regardless* of whether the company can make 10 cents on that. Company sells $3.97 jar of pickles and goes bankrupt after that. Walmart is costing the State of California Millions of dollars each year just by telling its employees we won't give you that benefit, but if you go apply for State assistance, they will. A little bit of research on the Internet will show you to what degree they have gone to to screw others. If that is the way you want to do business, then so be it. Me, my family and anyone else I have influence over won't do business with you-period. You have to structure your pricing in a way that you can successfully market. I have a problem with those people that say 512k unlimited $39.99 per month. Then, when you download a single movie, they cut your service. That is Dishonesty-period. If you tell your clients, 4 Gig for $39.99, then there is no issue. I'm sure MANY are going to jump in and tell me I'm wrong, and they certainly have a right to. At some point, this will have to be the way it works-you can't sell unlimited pipes for $39.99 per month, when you have to pay $100 or more per month-the economics are not there. I applaud Marlon for what he is doing, and I hope that he will review his pricing regularly. If he finds that he can drop the rates a bit, or adjust the limits upward, I'm sure his clients will appreciate it. They should also appreciate that fact that he isn't trying to squeeze every last dime from them. John Thomas -Original Message- From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing There actually are some of us out here that don't have this luxury in our markets. My total market is approximately 3000 people (not households) and I have to go 45 miles in any direction to find another town with more than 80 people in it. I'm not saying this in a 'woe is me' tone, just stating a fact. Some of us operate in the well under 10,000 people areas where 'finding a higher ARPU customer' is not really a viable option. We have to be all things in order to have enough customers to pay the bills. The top 10% of my market would get me less than 100 customers and they would have an average income of less than $100K. As a slightly off-topic aside: (those that don't want to listen to my ramblings can safely stop here :) I do find the Walmart reference interesting. Since I have started this business I have tried to read as much as I can in terms of business, marketing and sales books. Having come from a purely tech background it astounds me how clueless I really was until I started a business. One of the things that I have struggled with is the price point vs service aspect of the business. Obviously being the cheapest option has it's sales advantages, especially in the residential best effort internet business. But as we all know, being the cheapest makes it a bit harder to pay the bills. When I read business and marketing books they all espouse the higher end customer is the better customer view. I understand this view, you have a valued customer who is willing to pay a reasonable price for quality service. You look at brands like Lexus and Bose and think, these are the people I need to be like. These companies have made millionaires. But what I find interesting is that companies like Walmart and McDonalds who do live in the quantity, not quality world have made billionaires. The trick seems to be, if you can somehow manages to be the cheapest and do it right you can make a boat load of money and it doesn't have to be at the expense of the customer. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: John J. Thomas wrote: But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig, then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down. Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month, how can you compete with that? John Well, the reality is this: you can't compete with it. And why try? Why not move upstream to a larger ARPU customer? Cable ILEC can handle and deliver service to the masses cheaply - for now. But there is a segment of every population that needs more than the cheap dumb pipe attached to the cheap dumb support. That is the GAP. That is where the money is. That is where your market is. But it may mean selling beyond just a pipe. I've been
Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISP] New report on Muni Wifi
True, to be fair, there are Munis doing private Wireless, public wireless and both. Most Munis see the benefit of doing it private, although some are still politically tempted to do the public or public-private mix to make them some campaign points. When we work with cities and they say they want to do public, we tell them it is a bad idea and give them reasons why. John -Original Message- From: Dawn DiPietro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 05:52 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISP] New report on Muni Wifi Marlon, You cannot lump all municipal networks together which you do on a regular basis. According to a recent study only about 50% of muni networks provide access to the public. In the same report it mentions that there are less and less municipalities taking on this responsibility and outsourcing it to companies that do this work day in and day out. So yes this article is accurate but not for the reasons you may think.Of course I could be wrong about what you are thinking. ;-) Regards, Dawn DiPietro Dawn DiPietro wrote: Marlon, You want to know what else is funny? How you just pick and choose what you want to hear. Regards, Dawn Marlon K. Schafer wrote: MessageFunny how so few press outlets will ever talk about anything at all negative about muni networks. This is clearly biased, but it's still a breath of fresh air to me! marlon - Original Message - From: Cameron To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:28 PM Subject: [WISP] New report on Muni Wifi FYI http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/10/municipal_wi-fi_survey/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+
I've been interested in using 900 MHz technology to start a small WISP in a few areas in my region but am a bit intimidated by the vast amount of competition. Just when I get started on the business plan and feasibility of it all I start hearing about WiMax providers and 3G technology and wonder if it would even be worth it. I mean by the time I get setup and running and start to recover my original costs I will have to compete with not only DSL Cable but with other wireless type providers. It doesn't seem that 3G has the true speed or pricing that people want but has the penetration (literally). As for WiMax it will have the speed and interoperability to make the equipment cheaper but the penetration (literally) of walls and other items like trees will be lacking. So 900 MHz does seem to be the way to go since speed can be obtained to compete with the standard wired providers and I can get the penetration. Does it even all seem worth it to anyone else? Sincerely, Joshua -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+
Joshua, Here is my view and remember while reading it that our company thusfar is literally in the lead regarding WiMAX (Skylight says we have 80% share of WiMAX deployments; Maravedis says over 50%; none say lower): You are seeking to build and offer a fixed wireless broadband service. WiMAX and 3G are both ultimately aimed at mobile. Also, realize that 3G and WiMAX use licensed bands and accordingly hang off small channels. The amount of capacity that can marketed to anyone user is thus pretty limited, not to mention the range will be short (from a rural standpoint) since the business model requires in-building penetration. So yes, a fixed wireless network can effectively compete with 3G or WiMAX for fixed customers. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joshua M. Andrews Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:09 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+ I've been interested in using 900 MHz technology to start a small WISP in a few areas in my region but am a bit intimidated by the vast amount of competition. Just when I get started on the business plan and feasibility of it all I start hearing about WiMax providers and 3G technology and wonder if it would even be worth it. I mean by the time I get setup and running and start to recover my original costs I will have to compete with not only DSL Cable but with other wireless type providers. It doesn't seem that 3G has the true speed or pricing that people want but has the penetration (literally). As for WiMax it will have the speed and interoperability to make the equipment cheaper but the penetration (literally) of walls and other items like trees will be lacking. So 900 MHz does seem to be the way to go since speed can be obtained to compete with the standard wired providers and I can get the penetration. Does it even all seem worth it to anyone else? Sincerely, Joshua -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+
By the way, a story about the inadequacy of 3G: Last week I was in a car zooming south on highway 101 in the Silicon Valley trying to make it on time for a WiMAX panel at WCA about personal broadband (the world of mobile WiMAX). I was late. The driver let me use his 3G CDMA connection to upload my presentation to another person who was standing by on my behalf. I began the upload passing Redwood City. Twenty miles later we exited off the freeway and the presentation had still not uploaded though my connection was solid the entire time. That's the problem with 3G -- uploads are horrible and we are fast entering a world where the need for speed is becoming more bi-directional. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joshua M. Andrews Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:09 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+ I've been interested in using 900 MHz technology to start a small WISP in a few areas in my region but am a bit intimidated by the vast amount of competition. Just when I get started on the business plan and feasibility of it all I start hearing about WiMax providers and 3G technology and wonder if it would even be worth it. I mean by the time I get setup and running and start to recover my original costs I will have to compete with not only DSL Cable but with other wireless type providers. It doesn't seem that 3G has the true speed or pricing that people want but has the penetration (literally). As for WiMax it will have the speed and interoperability to make the equipment cheaper but the penetration (literally) of walls and other items like trees will be lacking. So 900 MHz does seem to be the way to go since speed can be obtained to compete with the standard wired providers and I can get the penetration. Does it even all seem worth it to anyone else? Sincerely, Joshua -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+
I hope to have first hand experience as a BreezeMAX user soon to share. Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net - Original Message - From: Joshua M. Andrews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:08:36 -0900 Subject: [WISPA] Competing with WiMax 3G+ I've been interested in using 900 MHz technology to start a small WISP in a few areas in my region but am a bit intimidated by the vast amount of competition. Just when I get started on the business plan and feasibility of it all I start hearing about WiMax providers and 3G technology and wonder if it would even be worth it. I mean by the time I get setup and running and start to recover my original costs I will have to compete with not only DSL Cable but with other wireless type providers. It doesn't seem that 3G has the true speed or pricing that people want but has the penetration (literally). As for WiMax it will have the speed and interoperability to make the equipment cheaper but the penetration (literally) of walls and other items like trees will be lacking. So 900 MHz does seem to be the way to go since speed can be obtained to compete with the standard wired providers and I can get the penetration. Does it even all seem worth it to anyone else? Sincerely, Joshua -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Actually, Walmart has made most of its money by providing the CONSUMER with what the CONSUMER wants. A truck driver has his responsibilities. If he is told he should unload his pallets - and that is not his job, the issue is with his employer, whoever agreed with walmart to have the driver unload the pallets. Many companies will mandate that the pallets be unloaded, it depends on the company. The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with the bankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves, all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. State assistance? What about the employees of the thousands of other companies in CA that don't make enough so they end up qualifiying for benefits from the state? Are they villians also? I did not see you mention them. Walmart fills only what the consumer wants. That is how they make money, by meeting those consumer needs/desires. When a customer wants an apple for ten cents, you don't fulfill those needs by offering an orange for twenty cents! Many of their vendors agree that although Walmart has been tough to deal with, that has only IMPROVED their business model, in dealing with all their customers! As a shareholder of Walmart, and as a consumer of Walmart, I expect no less. - Original Message - From: John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing Sam, Walmart has made most of its money by screwing others. Truck driver makes delivery to Walmart ad unload pallets. Goes to have receiving sign for them. Receiving refuses to sign, and says that *after* the truck driver *unloads* the items off the pallets, then he will sign. This is NOT the truck drivers responsibility. Walmart decides that a Gallon jar of pickles shoud cost $3.97-*regardless* of whether the company can make 10 cents on that. Company sells $3.97 jar of pickles and goes bankrupt after that. Walmart is costing the State of California Millions of dollars each year just by telling its employees we won't give you that benefit, but if you go apply for State assistance, they will. A little bit of research on the Internet will show you to what degree they have gone to to screw others. If that is the way you want to do business, then so be it. Me, my family and anyone else I have influence over won't do business with you-period. You have to structure your pricing in a way that you can successfully market. I have a problem with those people that say 512k unlimited $39.99 per month. Then, when you download a single movie, they cut your service. That is Dishonesty-period. If you tell your clients, 4 Gig for $39.99, then there is no issue. I'm sure MANY are going to jump in and tell me I'm wrong, and they certainly have a right to. At some point, this will have to be the way it works-you can't sell unlimited pipes for $39.99 per month, when you have to pay $100 or more per month-the economics are not there. I applaud Marlon for what he is doing, and I hope that he will review his pricing regularly. If he finds that he can drop the rates a bit, or adjust the limits upward, I'm sure his clients will appreciate it. They should also appreciate that fact that he isn't trying to squeeze every last dime from them. John Thomas -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
The devil is in the details. I only sell unlimited connections over leased line connections. Everyone else signs our AUP and agrees to a maximum speed on their plan. We do not do this to be punitive either. We do it because you will go broke if you try to sell multiple customer connections per access point in any other way. Selling unlimited anything is opening yourself to failure in the residential broadband game. Scriv John J. Thomas wrote: Sam, Walmart has made most of its money by screwing others. Truck driver makes delivery to Walmart ad unload pallets. Goes to have receiving sign for them. Receiving refuses to sign, and says that *after* the truck driver *unloads* the items off the pallets, then he will sign. This is NOT the truck drivers responsibility. Walmart decides that a Gallon jar of pickles shoud cost $3.97-*regardless* of whether the company can make 10 cents on that. Company sells $3.97 jar of pickles and goes bankrupt after that. Walmart is costing the State of California Millions of dollars each year just by telling its employees we won't give you that benefit, but if you go apply for State assistance, they will. A little bit of research on the Internet will show you to what degree they have gone to to screw others. If that is the way you want to do business, then so be it. Me, my family and anyone else I have influence over won't do business with you-period. You have to structure your pricing in a way that you can successfully market. I have a problem with those people that say 512k unlimited $39.99 per month. Then, when you download a single movie, they cut your service. That is Dishonesty-period. If you tell your clients, 4 Gig for $39.99, then there is no issue. I'm sure MANY are going to jump in and tell me I'm wrong, and they certainly have a right to. At some point, this will have to be the way it works-you can't sell unlimited pipes for $39.99 per month, when you have to pay $100 or more per month-the economics are not there. I applaud Marlon for what he is doing, and I hope that he will review his pricing regularly. If he finds that he can drop the rates a bit, or adjust the limits upward, I'm sure his clients will appreciate it. They should also appreciate that fact that he isn't trying to squeeze every last dime from them. John Thomas -Original Message- From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing There actually are some of us out here that don't have this luxury in our markets. My total market is approximately 3000 people (not households) and I have to go 45 miles in any direction to find another town with more than 80 people in it. I'm not saying this in a 'woe is me' tone, just stating a fact. Some of us operate in the well under 10,000 people areas where 'finding a higher ARPU customer' is not really a viable option. We have to be all things in order to have enough customers to pay the bills. The top 10% of my market would get me less than 100 customers and they would have an average income of less than $100K. As a slightly off-topic aside: (those that don't want to listen to my ramblings can safely stop here :) I do find the Walmart reference interesting. Since I have started this business I have tried to read as much as I can in terms of business, marketing and sales books. Having come from a purely tech background it astounds me how clueless I really was until I started a business. One of the things that I have struggled with is the price point vs service aspect of the business. Obviously being the cheapest option has it's sales advantages, especially in the residential best effort internet business. But as we all know, being the cheapest makes it a bit harder to pay the bills. When I read business and marketing books they all espouse the higher end customer is the better customer view. I understand this view, you have a valued customer who is willing to pay a reasonable price for quality service. You look at brands like Lexus and Bose and think, these are the people I need to be like. These companies have made millionaires. But what I find interesting is that companies like Walmart and McDonalds who do live in the quantity, not quality world have made billionaires. The trick seems to be, if you can somehow manages to be the cheapest and do it right you can make a boat load of money and it doesn't have to be at the expense of the customer. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: John J. Thomas wrote: But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig, then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down. Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like $99 per month,
RE: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Our company sells to US, European, and South American cable companies. Outside the US, we see that the dominant service plan is broadband with a byte cap. Inside the US that is rare probably due to the US having been the birthplace of the Internet and the widespread reverence for it as a system with universal deeply embedded into its concept...universal connectivity, universal access, universal usage for whatever you want and nobody can tell you what you can do with your connection. That also appears to be related to the widespread revulsion to the Telcos' proposal to have the ability to charge content/service sources to be available to their subscribers. I don't know if byte cap plans will make a dent in the market in this country at any time soon. However, the BitTorrent applications open thousands of TCP flows and often run 24 hours a day, unattended. That is causing a real problem for the providers. When they throttle down those guys, they get complaints because the users are often sophisticated enough to be able to measure it. Nevertheless, broadband providers are increasingly including references to abuse and consequences in their terms of service. Byte caps are also problematic...especially when most homes have multiple PCs and the kids are free to initiate one of these BitTorrent monsters to get movies and games while they're at school or asleep...without their parents understanding what's happening. Such households could easily reach almost any arbitrary byte cap very early within a billing cycle and cause significant resentment from the very folks that pay the bill. On the other hand, perhaps it's their responsibility to control what their kids do that can run up a bill. The parallel with kids and their family plan cell phone usage is a valuable lesson...except that there is often no competitive Internet broadband service that the parents can migrate to that would offer less risk (such as the cell plans that give kids a fixed bite at the apple every month). . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing The devil is in the details. I only sell unlimited connections over leased line connections. Everyone else signs our AUP and agrees to a maximum speed on their plan. We do not do this to be punitive either. We do it because you will go broke if you try to sell multiple customer connections per access point in any other way. Selling unlimited anything is opening yourself to failure in the residential broadband game. Scriv John J. Thomas wrote: Sam, Walmart has made most of its money by screwing others. Truck driver makes delivery to Walmart ad unload pallets. Goes to have receiving sign for them. Receiving refuses to sign, and says that *after* the truck driver *unloads* the items off the pallets, then he will sign. This is NOT the truck drivers responsibility. Walmart decides that a Gallon jar of pickles shoud cost $3.97-*regardless* of whether the company can make 10 cents on that. Company sells $3.97 jar of pickles and goes bankrupt after that. Walmart is costing the State of California Millions of dollars each year just by telling its employees we won't give you that benefit, but if you go apply for State assistance, they will. A little bit of research on the Internet will show you to what degree they have gone to to screw others. If that is the way you want to do business, then so be it. Me, my family and anyone else I have influence over won't do business with you-period. You have to structure your pricing in a way that you can successfully market. I have a problem with those people that say 512k unlimited $39.99 per month. Then, when you download a single movie, they cut your service. That is Dishonesty-period. If you tell your clients, 4 Gig for $39.99, then there is no issue. I'm sure MANY are going to jump in and tell me I'm wrong, and they certainly have a right to. At some point, this will have to be the way it works-you can't sell unlimited pipes for $39.99 per month, when you have to pay $100 or more per month-the economics are not there. I applaud Marlon for what he is doing, and I hope that he will review his pricing regularly. If he finds that he can drop the rates a bit, or adjust the limits upward, I'm sure his clients will appreciate it. They should also appreciate that fact that he isn't trying to squeeze every last dime from them. John Thomas -Original Message- From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing There actually are some of us out here that don't have this luxury in our markets. My total market is approximately 3000 people (not households) and I have to go 45 miles in any direction to find another town with
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Blake Bowers wrote: The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with the bankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves, all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. Not sure about pickles, but I have heard the Rubbermaid story. Walmart, dropped Rubbermaid off at the door of bakruptcy. Popular story about the way they do business. All Walmart business practices do is give everyone an example of extreme agressiveness of those sharks out there. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:27:22 -0800, George Rogato wrote Blake Bowers wrote: You know, the only real difference between WalMart and most other retailers, is that what the manufacturer agrees to do, WalMart holds them to. Rubbermaid, Vlasic Pickles, Bicycle makers, the list goes on and on. All of them agreed to do X, Y, and Z and each found out they had agreed to do things they didn't know how to do, or could not do. Many companies agreed to sell to WalMart at less than their cost, and went broke trying to keep up with demand. WalMart is a huge market. They sell in 3 months what the next largest retailer (the second largest retailer, that is) in the world sells in a year. Walmart insists that prices must FALL, not rise, and that they must be competitive. Walmart's profit on some items is on the order of 1 to 5%, and those are not large items, either. They DO their part in passing on revenues to manufacturers. Nobody exists on slimmer margins than WalMart does. There's a trail of dead or damaged companies in WalMart's wake, but it wasn't Walmart that did it to them. It was their own greed or incompetence, when they were offered a chance at the largest retailer's shelf space in the world, and took it in terms they could NOT sustain. There's a lesson for all of us in that, in that we really SHOULD know our capabilities and have a plan to deal with both growth and competition. Can we handle success? Can we keep our word, do we know our own selves well enough to make our plans and stick to them with discipline? Will we promise what we can't deliver, if it appears to promise us growth? Every company that sells products to WalMart knows exactly what they're expected to do when they start out. Many think they can get concessions, or have unrealistic expectations. I spent quite a bit of time reading about this... And I resolved at that moment, no matter what the future, I resolve to know what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I and my company can and cannot do. I sort of turned over a new leaf after reading and digesting. It was a good way to start 2007. Inspired by WalMart, no less. Hate them if you want, but I don't and can't. They're a breath of fresh air in a world of fudging, loose focus and blind ambition. They have an absolute resolute goal they have never wavered on, and that has always been the customer. WE need that kind of discipline and focus, too, as companies and individuals. NEver forget what we're here for. The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with the bankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves, all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. Not sure about pickles, but I have heard the Rubbermaid story. Walmart, dropped Rubbermaid off at the door of bakruptcy. Popular story about the way they do business. All Walmart business practices do is give everyone an example of extreme agressiveness of those sharks out there. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Blake Bowers wrote: Actually, Walmart has made most of its money by providing the CONSUMER with what the CONSUMER wants. Walmart fills only what the consumer wants. That is how they make money, by meeting those consumer needs/desires. When a customer wants an apple for ten cents, you don't fulfill those needs by offering an orange for twenty cents! Actually, are they supplying what a consumer wants? Or simply offering low prices? Don't confuse the 2. Many people want cheaper - or the perception of cheaper. When you are selling commodities, it usually does come down to price. Yet Target sells many of the same items and has a much higher check out average per customer. Customer service, neatness, variety, and plain ole English are all things missing from Walmart, IMO. At what point does that model - of dropping prices - stop working? (I have noticed that Walmart is often not the cheapest.) And this model only works when you can capture market share. - Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
I just read the USA Today article from 2003. It says the namebrand items provide 15% profit while the private label items provide 30% profit. Those are HUGE margins for a company now doing a billion a day in sales. I agree they have gotten where they are because they can operate on very low margins and are very efficient. This is the reason all the small mom and pop places have gone out of business... they can't figure out how to operate on less than 50% margins... or they don't want to. Travis Microserv wispa wrote: On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:27:22 -0800, George Rogato wrote Blake Bowers wrote: You know, the only real difference between WalMart and most other retailers, is that what the manufacturer agrees to do, WalMart holds them to. Rubbermaid, Vlasic Pickles, Bicycle makers, the list goes on and on. All of them agreed to do X, Y, and Z and each found out they had agreed to do things they didn't know how to do, or could not do. Many companies agreed to sell to WalMart at less than their cost, and went broke trying to keep up with demand. WalMart is a huge market. They sell in 3 months what the next largest retailer (the second largest retailer, that is) in the world sells in a year. Walmart insists that prices must FALL, not rise, and that they must be competitive. Walmart's profit on some items is on the order of 1 to 5%, and those are not large items, either. They DO their part in passing on revenues to manufacturers. Nobody exists on slimmer margins than WalMart does. There's a trail of dead or damaged companies in WalMart's wake, but it wasn't Walmart that did it to them. It was their own greed or incompetence, when they were offered a chance at the largest retailer's shelf space in the world, and took it in terms they could NOT sustain. There's a lesson for all of us in that, in that we really SHOULD know our capabilities and have a plan to deal with both growth and competition. Can we handle success? Can we keep our word, do we know our own selves well enough to make our plans and stick to them with discipline? Will we promise what we can't deliver, if it appears to promise us growth? Every company that sells products to WalMart knows exactly what they're expected to do when they start out. Many think they can get concessions, or have unrealistic expectations. I spent quite a bit of time reading about this... And I resolved at that moment, no matter what the future, I resolve to know what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I and my company can and cannot do. I sort of turned over a new leaf after reading and digesting. It was a good way to start 2007. Inspired by WalMart, no less. Hate them if you want, but I don't and can't. They're a breath of fresh air in a world of fudging, loose focus and blind ambition. They have an absolute resolute goal they have never wavered on, and that has always been the customer. WE need that kind of discipline and focus, too, as companies and individuals. NEver forget what we're here for. The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with the bankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves, all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. Not sure about pickles, but I have heard the "Rubbermaid" story. Walmart, dropped Rubbermaid off at the door of bakruptcy. Popular story about the way they do business. All Walmart business practices do is give everyone an example of extreme agressiveness of those sharks out there. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:06:21 -0700, Travis Johnson wrote I just read the USA Today article from 2003. It says the namebrand items provide 15% profit while the private label items provide 30% profit. Those are HUGE margins for a company now doing a billion a day in sales. I don't know where those numbers come from, but I know that some of thier stuff sells for definitely less than those markups. Perhaps some sells for more and makes up the difference. ' I really don't see how you can call 15% huge. It's very small. Nobody I know of that's doing well in the retail business of commodity items is selling things at those margins. Remember, just because the markup is 15%, doesn't mean the actual profit is. Overall, Walmart isn't making huge percentage profits on the gross sales. I agree they have gotten where they are because they can operate on very low margins and are very efficient. This is the reason all the small mom and pop places have gone out of business... they can't figure out how to operate on less than 50% margins... or they don't want to. Well, for my $38 account, I know I have less than $10 fixed expenses, including all the leases, etc. The only thing not factored into that is equipment replacement costs, as I really don't know what that's going to be long-term. I really do expect to make a 50 to 70% profit on sales in the future. And that's not going to make me rich in any sense of the word. Different market, different service, different universe. :) Travis Microserv wispa wrote: On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:27:22 -0800, George Rogato wrote Blake Bowers wrote: You know, the only real difference between WalMart and most other retailers, is that what the manufacturer agrees to do, WalMart holds them to. Rubbermaid, Vlasic Pickles, Bicycle makers, the list goes on and on. All of them agreed to do X, Y, and Z and each found out they had agreed to do things they didn't know how to do, or could not do.Many companies agreed to sell to WalMart at less than their cost, and went broke trying to keep up with demand. WalMart is a huge market. They sell in 3 months what the next largest retailer (the second largest retailer, that is) in the world sells in a year.Walmart insists that prices must FALL, not rise, and that they must be competitive. Walmart's profit on some items is on the order of 1 to 5%, and those are not large items, either. They DO their part in passing on revenues to manufacturers. Nobody exists on slimmer margins than WalMart does. There's a trail of! dead or damaged companies in WalMart's wake, but it wasn't Walmart that did it to them. It was their own greed or incompetence, when they were offered a chance at the largest retailer's shelf space in the world, and took it in terms they could NOT sustain. There's a lesson for all of us in that, in that we really SHOULD know our capabilities and have a plan to deal with both growth and competition. Can we handle success? Can we keep our word, do we know our own selves well enough to make our plans and stick to them with discipline? Will we promise what we can't deliver, if it appears to promise us growth?Every company that sells products to WalMart knows exactly what they're expected to do when they start out. Many think they can get concessions, or have unrealistic expectations. I spent quite a bit of time reading about this... And I resolved at that moment, no matter what the future, I resolve to know what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I and my company can and cann! ot do. I sort of turned over a new leaf after reading and digesting. It was a good way to start 2007. Inspired by WalMart, no less. Hate them if you want, but I don't and can't. They're a breath of fresh air in a world of fudging, loose focus and blind ambition. They have an absolute resolute goal they have never wavered on, and that has always been the customer. WE need that kind of discipline and focus, too, as companies and individuals. NEver forget what we're here for. The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with thebankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves,all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. Not sure about pickles, but I have heard the Rubbermaid story. Walmart, dropped Rubbermaid off at the door of bakruptcy. Popular story about the way they do business.All Walmart business practices do is give everyone an example of extreme agressiveness of those ! sharks out there.-- WISPA Wireless List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, IncBroadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains541-969-8200 Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Mark, While it is true that many suppliers created their own problems, both Walmart Home Depot do in fact beat up their suppliers. Extra fees. Delivery hassles. Invoicing issues. It is a catch-22: everyone wants to sell at Walmart to get at the eyeballs, but at what cost? Why do you think toy makers have tried to go around Walmart? If you want to take lessons from them: - learn from their lousy employee relations (turnover rates as high as 300%) - be impressed with their automation - match their execution - acquire its focus and strategy - have a similar corporate story Wal-Mart conquered common retailing and business issues through a relentless emphasis on cost-control and execution. “By focusing constantly on trying to become more operationally efficient, Wal-Mart sets itself apart from its competitors,” writes Bergdahl. “Wal-Mart isn’t successful because of its strategies so much as because of its lockstep tactical execution of those strategies.” [from Michael Bergdahl, author of /What I Learned From Sam Walton: How to Compete and Thrive in a Wal-Mart World]/ But remember that you are not selling a commodity like Walmart. There are many more lessons on Walmart here (http://www.rad-info.net/newsletters/walmart16.htm) and in numerous books, including Price Wars: A Strategy Guide to Winning the Battle for the Customer by Thomas J. Winninger How can anyone compete against Wal-Mart? As Bergdahl explains in an early chapter, price is not the answer. Because of Wal-Mart’s efficiencies and buying power, retailers can often buy products at Wal-Mart for less than they can get it from a distributor. The key to success involves finding a niche, and providing value-added service, based on intimate customer knowledge. Wal-Mart’s only Achilles heel is its inability to address specific customer requirements, although that weakness is masked by the “10-foot rule” and similar policies. Each associate is required to help, or at least smile at customers, if they are within a 10-foot radius. That's my 25 cents anyway. Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. marketingideaguy.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs
200 lbs of aps and antennas How the hell is THAT possible? I'll bet all of my gear weighs in less than that and I've got 6000 square miles over coverage, not just one puny little airplane! Steve, do your old bosses need help over there or what? You need to go back to work for Boing! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs Boeing is dropping it's plans to offer wireless access on the new 787 Dreamliner. It will be using a WIRED network instead. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/301086_boeing25.html The reasons given were: 1. Reducing the aircraft weight. 2. Difficulty in getting regulatory approval in a few countries. 3. The prototype system might not have delivered the expected performance. Sure, reducing weight on an (already overweight) aircraft is good. Boeing says they are replacing 200 lbs of access points and antennas with 50 lbs of wiring; thereby saving 150 lbs. Sure regulatory approval (2.4 GHz??) might have been a problem in some country - perhaps in Elbonia or Lower Slobovia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbonia My thinking is that Boeing engineers may have simply failed to learn a lesson that some WISPs have known for years. Any knowledgeable WISP could have told Boeing that putting two dozen access points inside an airplane cabin would create so much self-interference that the system would never deliver enough throughput to satisfy customers expectations for speed and performance. jack -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
My $0.02 slightly OT, but food for thought about price: In my last lifetime I worked as a mechanical engineer. One achievement I was particularly proud of was being the head engineer over a frangible bullet production line (frangible copper alloy bullets for firing ranges to prevent ricochet and lead/toxin problems). My bullet was by far the best frangible bullet out there; it's pattern at 20 yards (handgun) was less than half the size of anyone else's. I ran a tight ship, and we were the best. There was, however, an escalating patent race on the method of production. The company I worked for bought the process from a research firm; one of its employees quit working for them and filed his own patent. So we one-upped his patent; he one-upped our patent (patent's are nearly worthless by the way, but I digress...). There was no legal way to stop him from production. I was told that he then basically bought some equipment and began making the bullets out of his garage at a price we couldn't touch. The head of our North American Sales team angrily said that this guy ruined the market for all the frangible ammunition makers. So, this guy with a couple pieces of equipment in his garage put us, a multi million per year international company, out of production on this product line. We dropped the product because the profit margin was too slim. The other guy was willing to roll back his sleeves and put the wife and kids to work. And made it work. Jason Peter R. wrote: Mark, While it is true that many suppliers created their own problems, both Walmart Home Depot do in fact beat up their suppliers. Extra fees. Delivery hassles. Invoicing issues. It is a catch-22: everyone wants to sell at Walmart to get at the eyeballs, but at what cost? Why do you think toy makers have tried to go around Walmart? If you want to take lessons from them: - learn from their lousy employee relations (turnover rates as high as 300%) - be impressed with their automation - match their execution - acquire its focus and strategy - have a similar corporate story Wal-Mart conquered common retailing and business issues through a relentless emphasis on cost-control and execution. “By focusing constantly on trying to become more operationally efficient, Wal-Mart sets itself apart from its competitors,” writes Bergdahl. “Wal-Mart isn’t successful because of its strategies so much as because of its lockstep tactical execution of those strategies.” [from Michael Bergdahl, author of /What I Learned From Sam Walton: How to Compete and Thrive in a Wal-Mart World]/ But remember that you are not selling a commodity like Walmart. There are many more lessons on Walmart here (http://www.rad-info.net/newsletters/walmart16.htm) and in numerous books, including Price Wars: A Strategy Guide to Winning the Battle for the Customer by Thomas J. Winninger How can anyone compete against Wal-Mart? As Bergdahl explains in an early chapter, price is not the answer. Because of Wal-Mart’s efficiencies and buying power, retailers can often buy products at Wal-Mart for less than they can get it from a distributor. The key to success involves finding a niche, and providing value-added service, based on intimate customer knowledge. Wal-Mart’s only Achilles heel is its inability to address specific customer requirements, although that weakness is masked by the “10-foot rule” and similar policies. Each associate is required to help, or at least smile at customers, if they are within a 10-foot radius. That's my 25 cents anyway. Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. marketingideaguy.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Selling internet SERVICE is different than selling a PRODUCT. Your costs are not in the hard costs of the product, leases, etc. it's in the monthly costs (bandwidth, servers, employees, credit card processing fees, etc.). So your "gross profit" is going to be much higher than Walmart or Target, because their biggest expense is Cost of Goods Sold. Walmart's Net Profit for 2005 was 3.6%, which translates to $10 billion in profit. Travis Microserv wispa wrote: On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:06:21 -0700, Travis Johnson wrote I just read the USA Today article from 2003. It says the namebrand items provide 15% profit while the private label items provide 30% profit. Those are HUGE margins for a company now doing a billion a day in sales. I don't know where those numbers come from, but I know that some of thier stuff sells for definitely less than those markups. Perhaps some sells for more and makes up the difference. ' I really don't see how you can call 15% huge. It's very small. Nobody I know of that's doing well in the retail business of commodity items is selling things at those margins. Remember, just because the markup is 15%, doesn't mean the actual profit is. Overall, Walmart isn't making huge percentage profits on the gross sales. I agree they have gotten where they are because they can operate on very low margins and are very efficient. This is the reason all the small mom and pop places have gone out of business... they can't figure out how to operate on less than 50% margins... or they don't want to. Well, for my $38 account, I know I have less than $10 fixed expenses, including all the leases, etc. The only thing not factored into that is equipment replacement costs, as I really don't know what that's going to be long-term. I really do expect to make a50 to 70% profit on sales in the future. And that's not going to make me rich in any sense of the word. Different market, different service, different universe. :) Travis Microserv wispa wrote: On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:27:22 -0800, George Rogato wrote Blake Bowers wrote: You know, the only real difference between WalMart and most other retailers, is that what the manufacturer agrees to do, WalMart holds them to. Rubbermaid, Vlasic Pickles, Bicycle makers, the list goes on and on. All of them agreed to do X, Y, and Z and each found out they had agreed to do things they didn't know how to do, or could not do.Many companies agreed to sell to WalMart at less than their cost, and went broke trying to keep up with demand. WalMart is a huge market. They sell in 3 months what the next largest retailer (the second largest retailer, that is) in the world sells in a year.Walmart insists that prices must FALL, not rise, and that they must be competitive. Walmart's profit on some items is on the order of 1 to 5%, and those are not large items, either. They DO their part in passing on revenues to manufacturers. Nobody exists on slimmer margins than WalMart does. There's a trail of ! dead or damaged companies in WalMart's wake, but it wasn't Walmart that did it to them. It was their own greed or incompetence, when they were offered a chance at the largest retailer's shelf space in the world, and took it in terms they could NOT sustain. There's a lesson for all of us in that, in that we really SHOULD know our capabilities and have a plan to deal with both growth and competition. Can we handle success? Can we keep our word, do we know our own selves well enough to make our plans and stick to them with discipline? Will we promise what we can't deliver, if it appears to promise us growth?Every company that sells products to WalMart knows exactly what they're expected to do when they start out. Many think they can get concessions, or have unrealistic expectations. I spent quite a bit of time reading about this... And I resolved at that moment, no matter what the future, I resolve to know what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I and my company can and cann ! ot do. I sort of turned over a new leaf after reading and digesting. It was a good way to start 2007. Inspired by WalMart, no less. Hate them if you want, but I don't and can't. They're a breath of fresh air in a world of fudging, loose focus and blind ambition. They have an absolute resolute goal they have never wavered on, and that has always been the customer. WE need that kind of discipline and focus, too, as companies and individuals. NEver forget what we're here for. The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with thebankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves,all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. Not sure about pickles, but I have heard the "Rubbermaid" story. Walmart, dropped Rubbermaid off at the door of bakruptcy. Popular story about the way they do business.All Walmart business practices do is give everyone an example of
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
Mark, how would you like to be the employee at an American television tube manufacturer and then lose your job and watch the plant close. The manufacturer found that foreign companies were dumping their product on the American market so they filed suit. When push came to shove, Walmart filed against them, siding with the foreign market in what was clearly an ILLEGAL practice. Time ran out and the company had to close its doors. Business people love to look at the Walmart model in envy, but I doubt those same people would ever work for the company. I have no problem with businesses that are legal, ethical and moral, and Walmart has been proven to be lacking in all 3 areas. John Thomas -Original Message- From: wispa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 03:39 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:27:22 -0800, George Rogato wrote Blake Bowers wrote: You know, the only real difference between WalMart and most other retailers, is that what the manufacturer agrees to do, WalMart holds them to. Rubbermaid, Vlasic Pickles, Bicycle makers, the list goes on and on. All of them agreed to do X, Y, and Z and each found out they had agreed to do things they didn't know how to do, or could not do. Many companies agreed to sell to WalMart at less than their cost, and went broke trying to keep up with demand. WalMart is a huge market. They sell in 3 months what the next largest retailer (the second largest retailer, that is) in the world sells in a year. Walmart insists that prices must FALL, not rise, and that they must be competitive. Walmart's profit on some items is on the order of 1 to 5%, and those are not large items, either. They DO their part in passing on revenues to manufacturers. Nobody exists on slimmer margins than WalMart does. There's a trail of dead or damaged companies in WalMart's wake, but it wasn't Walmart that did it to them. It was their own greed or incompetence, when they were offered a chance at the largest retailer's shelf space in the world, and took it in terms they could NOT sustain. There's a lesson for all of us in that, in that we really SHOULD know our capabilities and have a plan to deal with both growth and competition. Can we handle success? Can we keep our word, do we know our own selves well enough to make our plans and stick to them with discipline? Will we promise what we can't deliver, if it appears to promise us growth? Every company that sells products to WalMart knows exactly what they're expected to do when they start out. Many think they can get concessions, or have unrealistic expectations. I spent quite a bit of time reading about this... And I resolved at that moment, no matter what the future, I resolve to know what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I and my company can and cannot do. I sort of turned over a new leaf after reading and digesting. It was a good way to start 2007. Inspired by WalMart, no less. Hate them if you want, but I don't and can't. They're a breath of fresh air in a world of fudging, loose focus and blind ambition. They have an absolute resolute goal they have never wavered on, and that has always been the customer. WE need that kind of discipline and focus, too, as companies and individuals. NEver forget what we're here for. The pickles... The famous pickles. Got to love it. You tie the pickles with the bankruptcy, when every industry analyst, all the business mags, Vlasic themselves, all agree, Walmart or the pickle deal was not a critical factor in their bankruptcy. Not sure about pickles, but I have heard the Rubbermaid story. Walmart, dropped Rubbermaid off at the door of bakruptcy. Popular story about the way they do business. All Walmart business practices do is give everyone an example of extreme agressiveness of those sharks out there. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
One of my kids bought a game the other day. Wal-Mart had it at $x. A block away we found the same game, brand new for almost half the price of Wal-Mart. We so rarely shop there anymore. Used to drop $400 to $500 per trip with house stuff, clothes, groceries etc. We finally got fed up with the attitudes of the other shoppers and employees. Now we grocery shop (when we go out of Odessa to do it) at Safeway and spend the same money. We'll get clothes from a clothing store, pay around the same price but get twice the quality. Wal-Mart was great when we had no choices and didn't know any better. Now, just like my business, my household has grown up a lot! laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing Blake Bowers wrote: Actually, Walmart has made most of its money by providing the CONSUMER with what the CONSUMER wants. Walmart fills only what the consumer wants. That is how they make money, by meeting those consumer needs/desires. When a customer wants an apple for ten cents, you don't fulfill those needs by offering an orange for twenty cents! Actually, are they supplying what a consumer wants? Or simply offering low prices? Don't confuse the 2. Many people want cheaper - or the perception of cheaper. When you are selling commodities, it usually does come down to price. Yet Target sells many of the same items and has a much higher check out average per customer. Customer service, neatness, variety, and plain ole English are all things missing from Walmart, IMO. At what point does that model - of dropping prices - stop working? (I have noticed that Walmart is often not the cheapest.) And this model only works when you can capture market share. - Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
I read an article once about this. What happens when Walmart can't drop prices any lower? Who foots the bill when Walmart employees get sick and go to the Emergency room? John -Original Message- From: Peter R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 03:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing Blake Bowers wrote: Actually, Walmart has made most of its money by providing the CONSUMER with what the CONSUMER wants. Walmart fills only what the consumer wants. That is how they make money, by meeting those consumer needs/desires. When a customer wants an apple for ten cents, you don't fulfill those needs by offering an orange for twenty cents! Actually, are they supplying what a consumer wants? Or simply offering low prices? Don't confuse the 2. Many people want cheaper - or the perception of cheaper. When you are selling commodities, it usually does come down to price. Yet Target sells many of the same items and has a much higher check out average per customer. Customer service, neatness, variety, and plain ole English are all things missing from Walmart, IMO. At what point does that model - of dropping prices - stop working? (I have noticed that Walmart is often not the cheapest.) And this model only works when you can capture market share. - Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
