Re: [WISPA] Akamai
Mike Hammett wrote: I can't find any reference to their peering policies. I'd like to see documentation on this, but I doubt that ANY ISP would be able to peer. It wouldn't be economical for them to have everyone peered. Are you referring to Google (https://www.peeringdb.com/private/participant_view.php?id=433) or Akamai (https://www.peeringdb.com/private/participant_view.php?id=2)? Akamai will peer with you. Google requires at least two locations. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
Thanks for the reference to that site. That will come in handy in the future, no doubt. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai Mike Hammett wrote: I can't find any reference to their peering policies. I'd like to see documentation on this, but I doubt that ANY ISP would be able to peer. It wouldn't be economical for them to have everyone peered. Are you referring to Google (https://www.peeringdb.com/private/participant_view.php?id=433) or Akamai (https://www.peeringdb.com/private/participant_view.php?id=2)? Akamai will peer with you. Google requires at least two locations. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Radio Mobile
So then should I be engineering my customer links to .6 Fresnel instead of the 1 that I've been trying to achieve? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:26 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Radio Mobile Mike, As mentioned by another, try adjusting the height of one end or the other to increase signal level. As Mac will tell you, higher on a site is not always better. If you can engineer a path to obstruct as much of even number Fresnel zones as possible it will help your signal level. Even and odd number Fresnel zones cancel each other out. Using an obstruction to cover up as many even number zones as possible gives some gain. This is why you hear people say that you want to design a microwave backhaul with a .6 Fresnel zone clearance. The danger in doing that with Radio Mobile, is the level of detail in your terrain files. Radio Mobile is capable of using 10 meter resolution terrain data from the USGS Seamless data distribution site (the default that the program downloads from the internet is 30 meter), or if you want, Roger (the Radio Mobile author) can create the data in SRTM format to use in Radio Mobile http://www.lurodata.com/. While this gives excellent terrain data details, it still does not show your clutter (trees, buildings). Take a look at this site to see the differences in terrain data http://www.sector14.net/~curt/ned/ You can do some visualization of clutter data in Radio Mobile at 1 kilometer resolution for free. If you download this file http://www.geog.umd.edu/landcover/1km-map/UMD1km_L.zip you will have the world clutter data at 1 KM resolution. This file can then be overlaid in Radio Mobile as a map layer. It will not let you use it as part of a prediction, but you can get an idea of the type of land cover to expect for any given area. You can also use this file in conjunction with the RM Path program in Radio Mobile to insert the clutter in your path profile inspections. To do this you must first edit the landheight.dat file (using notepad) in your Radio Mobile main directory. The numbers in this file correspond to the color coded legend on a land cover map layer merge. Each value is in meters and would be changed to represent the average clutter heights for each clutter class in your area. Once this is complete you would then do a path profile in Radio Mobile. In that window do a file export to RMPath, chose the custom option and I like to use 1000 points in my export. This will save a file (name it whatever you want or just overwrite the default) and open the RM Path program window. In this path profile you will see the terrain cross section with the clutter data layered on top. The colors match what you would see as a merged layer on the map. At this point you will NOT have a new signal level calculated based on clutter absorption, but you will know what to expect for path blockages. You can also manually edit the test file that was exported to insert any know obstructions in your path. Keep in mind, this data is very general in that it paints a whole square kilometer with the same class of clutter. Its not the best in the world, but for free it gives you a lot more to look at before you do a truck roll. This used in conjunction with Google Earth is just one more tool a WISP can use. I have been in the wireless industry for 18 years (including Senior RF Engineering Manager at EarthLink). I currently have Planet, ICS Telecom by ATDI and Radio Mobile as RF prediction tools. While Radio Mobile does not do many of the advanced features I need to design PCS and Cellular networks, I will attest that given the same data to start with, I can do predictions that match or beat the expensive commercial tools when it comes to simple field strength plots (which is what you want for coverage maps and path studies). Where the commercial tools excel, is when I can get high resolution clutter and building data. Radio Mobile simply does not have these capabilities (although I work with the author on a regular basis to improve Radio Mobile). I would highly recommend each WISP get one person on their staff to become somewhat proficient in this software. It can save you a lot of aggravation. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Mobile Right, the AP isn't directly at the client, but it says there's only 0.8 db of loss due to that. It says I lose 7.4 dB due to obstruction (when I have a 1.4 Fresnel zone) and 6.6 due to statistics. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brian
RE: [WISPA] Radio Mobile
I would try to get between .6 and 1. If you expose the second zone then the phase canceling starts and reduces your signal level. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Mobile So then should I be engineering my customer links to .6 Fresnel instead of the 1 that I've been trying to achieve? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:26 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Radio Mobile Mike, As mentioned by another, try adjusting the height of one end or the other to increase signal level. As Mac will tell you, higher on a site is not always better. If you can engineer a path to obstruct as much of even number Fresnel zones as possible it will help your signal level. Even and odd number Fresnel zones cancel each other out. Using an obstruction to cover up as many even number zones as possible gives some gain. This is why you hear people say that you want to design a microwave backhaul with a .6 Fresnel zone clearance. The danger in doing that with Radio Mobile, is the level of detail in your terrain files. Radio Mobile is capable of using 10 meter resolution terrain data from the USGS Seamless data distribution site (the default that the program downloads from the internet is 30 meter), or if you want, Roger (the Radio Mobile author) can create the data in SRTM format to use in Radio Mobile http://www.lurodata.com/. While this gives excellent terrain data details, it still does not show your clutter (trees, buildings). Take a look at this site to see the differences in terrain data http://www.sector14.net/~curt/ned/ You can do some visualization of clutter data in Radio Mobile at 1 kilometer resolution for free. If you download this file http://www.geog.umd.edu/landcover/1km-map/UMD1km_L.zip you will have the world clutter data at 1 KM resolution. This file can then be overlaid in Radio Mobile as a map layer. It will not let you use it as part of a prediction, but you can get an idea of the type of land cover to expect for any given area. You can also use this file in conjunction with the RM Path program in Radio Mobile to insert the clutter in your path profile inspections. To do this you must first edit the landheight.dat file (using notepad) in your Radio Mobile main directory. The numbers in this file correspond to the color coded legend on a land cover map layer merge. Each value is in meters and would be changed to represent the average clutter heights for each clutter class in your area. Once this is complete you would then do a path profile in Radio Mobile. In that window do a file export to RMPath, chose the custom option and I like to use 1000 points in my export. This will save a file (name it whatever you want or just overwrite the default) and open the RM Path program window. In this path profile you will see the terrain cross section with the clutter data layered on top. The colors match what you would see as a merged layer on the map. At this point you will NOT have a new signal level calculated based on clutter absorption, but you will know what to expect for path blockages. You can also manually edit the test file that was exported to insert any know obstructions in your path. Keep in mind, this data is very general in that it paints a whole square kilometer with the same class of clutter. Its not the best in the world, but for free it gives you a lot more to look at before you do a truck roll. This used in conjunction with Google Earth is just one more tool a WISP can use. I have been in the wireless industry for 18 years (including Senior RF Engineering Manager at EarthLink). I currently have Planet, ICS Telecom by ATDI and Radio Mobile as RF prediction tools. While Radio Mobile does not do many of the advanced features I need to design PCS and Cellular networks, I will attest that given the same data to start with, I can do predictions that match or beat the expensive commercial tools when it comes to simple field strength plots (which is what you want for coverage maps and path studies). Where the commercial tools excel, is when I can get high resolution clutter and building data. Radio Mobile simply does not have these capabilities (although I work with the author on a regular basis to improve Radio Mobile). I would highly recommend each WISP get one person on their staff to become somewhat proficient in this software. It can save you a lot of aggravation. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday,
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
I'm thinking of doing some kind of caching again too. What's the cost for this type of thing? We only service about 450 or 500 broadband subs, using two different networks. I'm not sure of the cost benefit these days. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :) We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT speeds doing the updates. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Anybody have any experience with Akamai? I'm thinking of adding some Akamai servers to my network again, looking for opinions. Thanks George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
Getting the Akamai servers installed on your network doesn't cost anything. They ship you the equipment free of charge and you just install it. More info can be found on their site: http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_partner.html Anthony At 11:34 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote: I'm thinking of doing some kind of caching again too. What's the cost for this type of thing? We only service about 450 or 500 broadband subs, using two different networks. I'm not sure of the cost benefit these days. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :) We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT speeds doing the updates. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Anybody have any experience with Akamai? I'm thinking of adding some Akamai servers to my network again, looking for opinions. Thanks George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
I have known several people to use these and some have seen bandwidth savings. MS updates is one of them. Something to note, is that as George says, it can go both ways. The key is to find out where people are going (YouTube) and ensuring that they will help accelerate that. George Rogato wrote: There is possibly additional costs involved. Not sure if Marlon is paying by the bit or dedicated or 95%, but Akamai also uses your bandwidth to reach other customers close to you from the servers they place on your network. I think if someone was colocated in Seattle, they could maybe just peer with them. One way to avoid some bandwidth costs. Anthony Lemons wrote: Getting the Akamai servers installed on your network doesn't cost anything. They ship you the equipment free of charge and you just install it. More info can be found on their site: http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_partner.html Anthony At 11:34 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote: I'm thinking of doing some kind of caching again too. What's the cost for this type of thing? We only service about 450 or 500 broadband subs, using two different networks. I'm not sure of the cost benefit these days. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :) We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT speeds doing the updates. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Anybody have any experience with Akamai? I'm thinking of adding some Akamai servers to my network again, looking for opinions. Thanks George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote: The key is to find out where people are going (YouTube) and ensuring that they will help accelerate that. Thats my thoughts. But, if NBC isn't paying Akamai, it won't be on their servers. I'm in the Pittock Building, wonder how easy it is to connect to akamai or google. How does NWAX work? https://www.peeringdb.com/private/exchange_view.php?id=165 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
There is possibly additional costs involved. Not sure if Marlon is paying by the bit or dedicated or 95%, but Akamai also uses your bandwidth to reach other customers close to you from the servers they place on your network. I think if someone was colocated in Seattle, they could maybe just peer with them. One way to avoid some bandwidth costs. Anthony Lemons wrote: Getting the Akamai servers installed on your network doesn't cost anything. They ship you the equipment free of charge and you just install it. More info can be found on their site: http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_partner.html Anthony At 11:34 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote: I'm thinking of doing some kind of caching again too. What's the cost for this type of thing? We only service about 450 or 500 broadband subs, using two different networks. I'm not sure of the cost benefit these days. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :) We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT speeds doing the updates. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Anybody have any experience with Akamai? I'm thinking of adding some Akamai servers to my network again, looking for opinions. Thanks George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
George, This is pretty simple to do, your colo provider might charge you a nominal cross connect fee for the fiber you send to NWAX. However, once you connect and your MAC address is registered, you can then negotiate pretty decent deals with the other providers in the exchange. All of this without a loop charge. ryan http://www.nwax.net/member_information_connect.asp http://www.nwax.net/about_faq.asp On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:51 PM, George Rogato wrote: Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote: The key is to find out where people are going (YouTube) and ensuring that they will help accelerate that. Thats my thoughts. But, if NBC isn't paying Akamai, it won't be on their servers. I'm in the Pittock Building, wonder how easy it is to connect to akamai or google. How does NWAX work? https://www.peeringdb.com/private/exchange_view.php?id=165 -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
Thanks. I sent in a request for info. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Anthony Lemons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai Getting the Akamai servers installed on your network doesn't cost anything. They ship you the equipment free of charge and you just install it. More info can be found on their site: http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_partner.html Anthony At 11:34 AM 1/8/2008, you wrote: I'm thinking of doing some kind of caching again too. What's the cost for this type of thing? We only service about 450 or 500 broadband subs, using two different networks. I'm not sure of the cost benefit these days. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Akamai We love Akamai... especially during big Windows Update periods. :) We serve 12 school districts and they all seem to do their updates on PC's and servers during the same times (during school breaks) and the Akamai servers save us a ton of bandwidth and the customers get GREAT speeds doing the updates. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: Anybody have any experience with Akamai? I'm thinking of adding some Akamai servers to my network again, looking for opinions. Thanks George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
On Tue, January 8, 2008 11:39 pm, Marlon Schafer wrote: I sent in a request for info. Depending on how big you are, you may be waiting a while for a response. A few months back, I sent in a request for information from Akamai; two months later, they replied with a very short, very curt your network is too small for us to bother with message. Never hurts to ask, though. :) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Akamai
I have a direct contact if anyone needs, But I just did the online form and they called me a couple weeks later. George David E. Smith wrote: On Tue, January 8, 2008 11:39 pm, Marlon Schafer wrote: I sent in a request for info. Depending on how big you are, you may be waiting a while for a response. A few months back, I sent in a request for information from Akamai; two months later, they replied with a very short, very curt your network is too small for us to bother with message. Never hurts to ask, though. :) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
