Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
When it comes to comparing network/embedded CPUs, there is more than just MHz that needs to be considered. Some CPUs have multiple cores, hardware accelerators, etc. For example, we use a Gemini SL3512 CPU in some of our products. Here are some of the accelerators that it has: -Layer2/3/4 hardware switching, routing and NAT with 4 transmit queues per port for QoS support -Layer2-7 packet classification into 16 receive queues -Transmit acceleration by TCP segmentation, IP fragmentation and TCP/IP/UDP checksum calculation -Receive acceleration by TCP connection table lookup, assembly of multiple packets belonging to the same TCP connection and TCP/IP/UDP checksum verification -Hardware Security Acceleration Engine performs DES, 3DES, AES, CCMP and RC4 encryption/decryption with CBC or ECB mode operation; authentication with SHA1, MD5, HMAC-SHA1 and HMAC-MD5 hashing algorithm All of these functions are then offloaded from the main CPU which can perform other functions. Just the first one (hardware NAT accelerator) can increase NAT throughput by an order of magnitude. -Hal Ligowave -Original Message- From: Bo Ring [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:54:00 -0500 Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to them. Bo Ring Account Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 630-743-1162 • office: 312-205-2515 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 • tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
Ok guys. Great feedback on all of this, but back to my original question, what's the max throughput I could expect from a RB532A? If there was an answer my spam filter must have gotten it. NAT'ing going on with 3 desktop systems. Other than that, no queueing, no firewalling, no routing, etc etc. Pretty basic setup. And this is NOT wireless - using it for my in-house router. Sorry, should have clarified that too. Thanks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps When it comes to comparing network/embedded CPUs, there is more than just MHz that needs to be considered. Some CPUs have multiple cores, hardware accelerators, etc. For example, we use a Gemini SL3512 CPU in some of our products. Here are some of the accelerators that it has: -Layer2/3/4 hardware switching, routing and NAT with 4 transmit queues per port for QoS support -Layer2-7 packet classification into 16 receive queues -Transmit acceleration by TCP segmentation, IP fragmentation and TCP/IP/UDP checksum calculation -Receive acceleration by TCP connection table lookup, assembly of multiple packets belonging to the same TCP connection and TCP/IP/UDP checksum verification -Hardware Security Acceleration Engine performs DES, 3DES, AES, CCMP and RC4 encryption/decryption with CBC or ECB mode operation; authentication with SHA1, MD5, HMAC-SHA1 and HMAC-MD5 hashing algorithm All of these functions are then offloaded from the main CPU which can perform other functions. Just the first one (hardware NAT accelerator) can increase NAT throughput by an order of magnitude. -Hal Ligowave -Original Message- From: Bo Ring [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:54:00 -0500 Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to them. Bo Ring Account Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 630-743-1162 . office: 312-205-2515 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 . tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
From lots of experience, I can tell you that you are just going to have to test it with your configuration. Each version of Mikrotik is different and can radically affect performance. They make so many changes that aren't included in the changelog, you have no idea if they made a change to NAT or not. Just put PCs on either side of the 532 and run a btest through them. Try with both large and small packets and see the performance for yourself. Ok guys. Great feedback on all of this, but back to my original question, what's the max throughput I could expect from a RB532A? If there was an answer my spam filter must have gotten it. NAT'ing going on with 3 desktop systems. Other than that, no queueing, no firewalling, no routing, etc etc. Pretty basic setup. And this is NOT wireless - using it for my in-house router. Sorry, should have clarified that too. Thanks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps When it comes to comparing network/embedded CPUs, there is more than just MHz that needs to be considered. Some CPUs have multiple cores, hardware accelerators, etc. For example, we use a Gemini SL3512 CPU in some of our products. Here are some of the accelerators that it has: -Layer2/3/4 hardware switching, routing and NAT with 4 transmit queues per port for QoS support -Layer2-7 packet classification into 16 receive queues -Transmit acceleration by TCP segmentation, IP fragmentation and TCP/IP/UDP checksum calculation -Receive acceleration by TCP connection table lookup, assembly of multiple packets belonging to the same TCP connection and TCP/IP/UDP checksum verification -Hardware Security Acceleration Engine performs DES, 3DES, AES, CCMP and RC4 encryption/decryption with CBC or ECB mode operation; authentication with SHA1, MD5, HMAC-SHA1 and HMAC-MD5 hashing algorithm All of these functions are then offloaded from the main CPU which can perform other functions. Just the first one (hardware NAT accelerator) can increase NAT throughput by an order of magnitude. -Hal Ligowave -Original Message- From: Bo Ring [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:54:00 -0500 Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to them. Bo Ring Account Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 630-743-1162 . office: 312-205-2515 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 . tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
If you aren't doing wireless then 40Mbps should be easily achievable. If you don't gets the expected results then kill connection tracking in the firewall and retest. Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:33 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Ok guys. Great feedback on all of this, but back to my original question, what's the max throughput I could expect from a RB532A? If there was an answer my spam filter must have gotten it. NAT'ing going on with 3 desktop systems. Other than that, no queueing, no firewalling, no routing, etc etc. Pretty basic setup. And this is NOT wireless - using it for my in-house router. Sorry, should have clarified that too. Thanks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 6:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps When it comes to comparing network/embedded CPUs, there is more than just MHz that needs to be considered. Some CPUs have multiple cores, hardware accelerators, etc. For example, we use a Gemini SL3512 CPU in some of our products. Here are some of the accelerators that it has: -Layer2/3/4 hardware switching, routing and NAT with 4 transmit queues per port for QoS support -Layer2-7 packet classification into 16 receive queues -Transmit acceleration by TCP segmentation, IP fragmentation and TCP/IP/UDP checksum calculation -Receive acceleration by TCP connection table lookup, assembly of multiple packets belonging to the same TCP connection and TCP/IP/UDP checksum verification -Hardware Security Acceleration Engine performs DES, 3DES, AES, CCMP and RC4 encryption/decryption with CBC or ECB mode operation; authentication with SHA1, MD5, HMAC-SHA1 and HMAC-MD5 hashing algorithm All of these functions are then offloaded from the main CPU which can perform other functions. Just the first one (hardware NAT accelerator) can increase NAT throughput by an order of magnitude. -Hal Ligowave -Original Message- From: Bo Ring [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:54:00 -0500 Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to them. Bo Ring Account Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 630-743-1162 . office: 312-205-2515 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 . tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.11/1554 - Release Date: 7/15/2008 6:03 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
[WISPA] great FAQ on the difference between dB and dBi/dBm
http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/14091 I hate to admit this, but I often get these mixed up (sort of like centripetal and centrifugal force!) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] great FAQ on the difference between dB and dBi/dBm
The article was good for our industry. There are tons of absolute dB readings like dBuV, dBrnc0 and dBspl. I always explain it as simply a logarithmic way of stating a measuring unit like power or force. You could have dBmpg (miles per gallon) if you wanted. A naked dB by itself is nothing more than a logarithmic multiplying factor. - Original Message - From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: [WISPA] great FAQ on the difference between dB and dBi/dBm http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/14091 I hate to admit this, but I often get these mixed up (sort of like centripetal and centrifugal force!) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] great FAQ on the difference between dB and dBi/dBm
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: The article was good for our industry. There are tons of absolute dB readings like dBuV, dBrnc0 and dBspl. I always explain it as simply a logarithmic way of stating a measuring unit like power or force. You could have dBmpg (miles per gallon) if you wanted. A naked dB by itself is nothing more than a logarithmic multiplying factor. Yup, and if you understand that basic principle, then the law of 10's and 3's makes sense (10dB = 10x power; 3dB = 2x power). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Switch Questions
Does anyone know of a switch with GigE ports and the capability for 10GigE uplinks without routing? I want a switch that can upgrade the core links when necessary, but not wanting one that routes because I'm under the impression that Layer 3 switches don't perform well. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] great FAQ on the difference between dB and dBi/dBm
Yes. The page is VERY well written. It sounded almost word-for-word like the way I've been teaching this concept (along with many others) to the WISP industry since 2001. Rogelio wrote: http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/14091 I hate to admit this, but I often get these mixed up (sort of like centripetal and centrifugal force!) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
Sure I'm trolling, Ryan. Just name for me the last ten successful small electric utility startups. See if you can find for me the last ten ILEC's to start up as a small business. And name for me the last 10 cities you know of with competitive water or sewage companies. And then remind me again why it's good that we become a regulated public utility? insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due On Jul 15, 2008, at 8:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why on earth would you want to be a public utility? Because I serve the public? Because that is how I was able to get my franchise with the gov't for right of way access. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
delete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure I'm trolling, Ryan. Just name for me the last ten successful small electric utility startups. See if you can find for me the last ten ILEC's to start up as a small business. And name for me the last 10 cities you know of with competitive water or sewage companies. And then remind me again why it's good that we become a regulated public utility? insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due On Jul 15, 2008, at 8:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why on earth would you want to be a public utility? Because I serve the public? Because that is how I was able to get my franchise with the gov't for right of way access. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
Jack Unger wrote: delete That only works if you do it silently. By publicly posting that you're deleting an email, you in fact draw more attention to it. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] muddy frog
Why don't you share your CV? (I have just completed the start up of by 28th business. Never had a bankruptcy. Never have had an employee miss a paycheck. And estate planning is something that is increasingly taking more of my time these days.) So mister expert on all things business and industry, lets hear the bio. We need schooled obviously. How old are you anyhow? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure I'm trolling, Ryan. Just name for me the last ten successful small electric utility startups. See if you can find for me the last ten ILEC's to start up as a small business. And name for me the last 10 cities you know of with competitive water or sewage companies. And then remind me again why it's good that we become a regulated public utility? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] great FAQ on the difference between dB and dBi/dBm
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: The article was good for our industry. There are tons of absolute dB readings like dBuV, dBrnc0 and dBspl. I always explain it as simply a logarithmic way of stating a measuring unit like power or force. You could have dBmpg (miles per gallon) if you wanted. A naked dB by itself is nothing more than a logarithmic multiplying factor. What made this difficult for me a month or so ago when I got into RF, was not knowing the math behind the calculations. e.g. 10 * log10(x milliwatts) = y dBm When I show others how to do this, I note that just because dBm's are added to dB's, they are NOT the same. The log craziness is what we do so that we can later add together similar numbers. e.g. x dBm + y dB = z dBm WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
Agreed... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due Jack Unger wrote: delete That only works if you do it silently. By publicly posting that you're deleting an email, you in fact draw more attention to it. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Form 477 NPRM Comments Due
Thanks David E. Smith wrote: Jack Unger wrote: delete That only works if you do it silently. By publicly posting that you're deleting an email, you in fact draw more attention to it. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] muddy frog
Why don't you Not. I have enough junk mail don't need that as well. If muddy and chuck have issues cant they be aired elsewhere then this list. I have yet to see one exchange between these two that have been valuable to my business. I need positive help and advice not back biting and my dog is better than your dog messages. Do this bantering off list. Steve Barnes Executive Manager RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service (765)584-2288 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] muddy frog Why don't you share your CV? (I have just completed the start up of by 28th business. Never had a bankruptcy. Never have had an employee miss a paycheck. And estate planning is something that is increasingly taking more of my time these days.) So mister expert on all things business and industry, lets hear the bio. We need schooled obviously. How old are you anyhow? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure I'm trolling, Ryan. Just name for me the last ten successful small electric utility startups. See if you can find for me the last ten ILEC's to start up as a small business. And name for me the last 10 cities you know of with competitive water or sewage companies. And then remind me again why it's good that we become a regulated public utility? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] muddy frog
Wondering why someone would start 28 businesses. But, whatever the case, I think I grasp the relevant facts here... There's a few people here who have Rockefeller envy... they want to be 'titans of industry and to them, that means playing in the sandbox with public money, high roller financing, and the list goes on. And the easiest way, is to convince the government to fund them. And you, then, are my political enemy. I am sick and tired of my tax dollars going to buy this or that, or to fund the dreams of elected folks who campaign for re-election by saying I brought you (insert favorite service here). I am old school. Let the people meet the needs of each other, and if there's a disagreement, work it out. We don't need Big Brother in this. I'll bet just about every one of you has said this. But, I remember the chorus of hope when someone started talking about getting USF funding coming their way. let me guess, you hate your taxes wasted, but love it when someone else's wasted taxes come your way and into YOUR pocket... I don't want any federal funding, state funding. I don't want utility status. I want to provide the services that people need, evolve with the times, and I'm in this for the long term. 30 years, minimum. I have no wish to be in a regulatory straightjacket, or have my prices set by someone else, nor have the services I offer restricted, mandated, or otherwise demanded by some meddlesome idiot who is otherwise incapable of earning a living except by rising to the level of utter incompetence (government). And I want to be left the hell alone.I don't have any fear of competition, technological change, or obsolescence.I can handle those things just fine. But, apparently, this is not the dream of the folks here. Somehow that dream involves status, power, recognition, and some ego-stroking. And public money and apparently, a feeling of not being there yet because you haven't gotten enough status to be on par with ATT or ComCast with the big boys in DC. I did believe in WISPA when it started, I once was a paid member, because it seemed we all had the same dream at one time. I'm still exactly who i was I started. But someone, somewhere, got a taste of something they think is more exciting or something, and now they're running the show. Well, the big boys don't c are about you right now. But if you play the game long enough, they will. And you will disappear as quickly as you came... and sadly, you'll take down the rest of us with you when you flame out playing the political game. The thing about playing with fire in DC, is that you will get burned. I am not interested in playing with fire. I want it out. I want to be left alone. I want the FCC, the state, the PUC, etc, the hell away from me. No wonder I threaten and annoy you. Simple entrepreneurism isn't compatible with dreams of bing one of the titans of industry. Ahh, well, what can I say. WISPA's co-opted and orindary Joe's aren't getting it back any time soon. Good luck. And some day when you're really needing those guys with the determination and guts, instead of the quick buck artists... We'll all still be around, quietly doing our thing. And a few will be left to say I told you so. I'll just stay out of the conversation... but you all had better have it. And the question for that conversation is: What kind of business do you want to be in? What is the nature, style, and character of the business you want to be in? There's lots of you still here that were pioneers. You started when nobody had heard of 'wireless internet' and you branded it yourself and made your own market. You suffered through the teething and breaking in of a new notion and you learned through all the trial and error along the way. You probably recall the struggle to pay the VISA with the mastercard and wondering how to pay for the CPE coming in COD. And you remember what it was like when you worked a 22 hour day because that's what it took to get something done and things back up and going. Do you want to be next McDonald's common commodity controlled by rules and choices made over your head... If so, these folks have great ideas for getting you what you want. If not, then you gotta fight on your hands sooner or later. Of course, the easier fight is now, but the course is set, it's nearly irreversable. They're on a campaign to raise the capital requirements sky high, to weed out anyone not sufficiently elite. Why, if you haven't started 28 businesses in 35 years, you're pig poop. Over the last couple of years, a lot of the more influential types have repeated the desired intent to have great consolidation and weeding out the smaller, often referred to as maturing of our industry. Some are still involved with WISPA. some left. They're not your friend or mine. they have one friend only and they see that friend in the mirror
Re: [WISPA] muddy frog
You are correct. I apologize. - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] muddy frog Why don't you Not. I have enough junk mail don't need that as well. If muddy and chuck have issues cant they be aired elsewhere then this list. I have yet to see one exchange between these two that have been valuable to my business. I need positive help and advice not back biting and my dog is better than your dog messages. Do this bantering off list. Steve Barnes Executive Manager RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service (765)584-2288 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 4.9 EIRP rules
I'm looking for something simple that breaks down the PtP/PtMP EIRP rules fro the FCC on the 4.9 GHz band, but haven't found anything on google. Does anyone have a good resource on this? I have a 5 mi LOS link and I want to see what I can do 4.9/wifi-wise to push about 20Mbps traffic upstream to this remote location. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] muddy frog
OMG. What freakin rock did you crawl out from under?? Do the list a favor and crawl back under it. If you need help lifting the rock up...let me know. Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:45:01 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] muddy frog Wondering why someone would start 28 businesses. But, whatever the case, I think I grasp the relevant facts here... There's a few people here who have Rockefeller envy... they want to be 'titans of industry and to them, that means playing in the sandbox with public money, high roller financing, and the list goes on. And the easiest way, is to convince the government to fund them. And you, then, are my political enemy. I am sick and tired of my tax dollars going to buy this or that, or to fund the dreams of elected folks who campaign for re-election by saying I brought you (insert favorite service here). I am old school. Let the people meet the needs of each other, and if there's a disagreement, work it out. We don't need Big Brother in this. I'll bet just about every one of you has said this. But, I remember the chorus of hope when someone started talking about getting USF funding coming their way. let me guess, you hate your taxes wasted, but love it when someone else's wasted taxes come your way and into YOUR pocket... I don't want any federal funding, state funding. I don't want utility status. I want to provide the services that people need, evolve with the times, and I'm in this for the long term. 30 years, minimum. I have no wish to be in a regulatory straightjacket, or have my prices set by someone else, nor have the services I offer restricted, mandated, or otherwise demanded by some meddlesome idiot who is otherwise incapable of earning a living except by rising to the level of utter incompetence (government). And I want to be left the hell alone.I don't have any fear of competition, technological change, or obsolescence.I can handle those things just fine. But, apparently, this is not the dream of the folks here. Somehow that dream involves status, power, recognition, and some ego-stroking. And public money and apparently, a feeling of not being there yet because you haven't gotten enough status to be on par with ATT or ComCast with the big boys in DC. I did believe in WISPA when it started, I once was a paid member, because it seemed we all had the same dream at one time. I'm still exactly who i was I started. But someone, somewhere, got a taste of something they think is more exciting or something, and now they're running the show. Well, the big boys don't c are about you right now. But if you play the game long enough, they will. And you will disappear as quickly as you came... and sadly, you'll take down the rest of us with you when you flame out playing the political game. The thing about playing with fire in DC, is that you will get burned. I am not interested in playing with fire. I want it out. I want to be left alone. I want the FCC, the state, the PUC, etc, the hell away from me. No wonder I threaten and annoy you. Simple entrepreneurism isn't compatible with dreams of bing one of the titans of industry. Ahh, well, what can I say. WISPA's co-opted and orindary Joe's aren't getting it back any time soon. Good luck. And some day when you're really needing those guys with the determination and guts, instead of the quick buck artists... We'll all still be around, quietly doing our thing. And a few will be left to say I told you so. I'll just stay out of the conversation... but you all had better have it. And the question for that conversation is: What kind of business do you want to be in? What is the nature, style, and character of the business you want to be in? There's lots of you still here that were pioneers. You started when nobody had heard of 'wireless internet' and you branded it yourself and made your own market. You suffered through the teething and breaking in of a new notion and you learned through all the trial and error along the way. You probably recall the struggle to pay the VISA with the mastercard and wondering how to pay for the CPE coming in COD. And you remember what it was like when you worked a 22 hour day because that's what it took to get something done and things back up and going. Do you want to be next McDonald's common commodity controlled by rules and choices made over your head... If so, these folks have great ideas for getting you what you want. If not, then you gotta fight on your hands sooner or later. Of course, the easier fight is now, but the course is set, it's nearly irreversable. They're on a campaign to raise the capital requirements sky high, to weed out anyone not sufficiently elite. Why, if you haven't started 28 businesses in 35 years, you're pig poop.
[WISPA] Enough is Enough
Alright. Enough is enough. List moderator, Is it possible to control this? Can this thread be shutdown? Not sure if the participants in this highly unproductive flame war should be banned ( and for what time period) but this is getting ridiculous and incredibly distracting. All, I am on dozens of mailing lists. I get a couple hundred messages per day and I read them all. I have never seen this level of pettiness on any of them. Far more can be accomplished via civil discourse. One can have heated discussions on an intellectual level without resorting to personal attacks. I think this sort of behavior, and the fact it has gone on this long unchecked does a major dis service to the WISP community. If this list is monitored by vendors, federal agencies (such as the FCC) etc how do you think this behavior casts the community? Lets stop the destructive behavior before this list stops serving the purpose for which it was created. -- Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] muddy frog
I have sort of enjoyed this thread - BUT, here you launch off into something you know nothing about. Chuck McCown is the general manager (And I suspect part owner) of Beehive telephone. The CEO of Beehive is Art Brothers -and a better telecom businessman I don't think you will ever find. I suspect if Chuck has grown to the level of responsiblity he has with Beehive, he is just about as smart as Art, and knows that they are not looking to be a monopoly, but rather to provide reliable telecommunications products to their users. Moreso, their battles with big brother have been well documented, and make for very interesting reading. Check them out for yourself at http://www.beehive.net/lastword.html I really love May 1999, and the Catenary. In another article, that I cannot find right now, it came down. I really wish I had a picture of that Catenary, and some of that wire. Go great in the museum we are planning. Anyway, my point, those folks are what you wish you could be. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] muddy frog Wondering why someone would start 28 businesses. But, whatever the case, I think I grasp the relevant facts here... There's a few people here who have Rockefeller envy... they want to be 'titans of industry and to them, that means playing in the sandbox with public money, high roller financing, and the list goes on. And the easiest way, is to convince the government to fund them. And you, then, are my political enemy. I am sick and tired of my tax dollars going to buy this or that, or to fund the dreams of elected folks who campaign for re-election by saying I brought you (insert favorite service here). I am old school. Let the people meet the needs of each other, and if there's a disagreement, work it out. We don't need Big Brother in this. I'll bet just about every one of you has said this. But, I remember the chorus of hope when someone started talking about getting USF funding coming their way. let me guess, you hate your taxes wasted, but love it when someone else's wasted taxes come your way and into YOUR pocket... I don't want any federal funding, state funding. I don't want utility status. I want to provide the services that people need, evolve with the times, and I'm in this for the long term. 30 years, minimum. I have no wish to be in a regulatory straightjacket, or have my prices set by someone else, nor have the services I offer restricted, mandated, or otherwise demanded by some meddlesome idiot who is otherwise incapable of earning a living except by rising to the level of utter incompetence (government). And I want to be left the hell alone.I don't have any fear of competition, technological change, or obsolescence.I can handle those things just fine. But, apparently, this is not the dream of the folks here. Somehow that dream involves status, power, recognition, and some ego-stroking. And public money and apparently, a feeling of not being there yet because you haven't gotten enough status to be on par with ATT or ComCast with the big boys in DC. I did believe in WISPA when it started, I once was a paid member, because it seemed we all had the same dream at one time. I'm still exactly who i was I started. But someone, somewhere, got a taste of something they think is more exciting or something, and now they're running the show. Well, the big boys don't c are about you right now. But if you play the game long enough, they will. And you will disappear as quickly as you came... and sadly, you'll take down the rest of us with you when you flame out playing the political game. The thing about playing with fire in DC, is that you will get burned. I am not interested in playing with fire. I want it out. I want to be left alone. I want the FCC, the state, the PUC, etc, the hell away from me. No wonder I threaten and annoy you. Simple entrepreneurism isn't compatible with dreams of bing one of the titans of industry. Ahh, well, what can I say. WISPA's co-opted and orindary Joe's aren't getting it back any time soon. Good luck. And some day when you're really needing those guys with the determination and guts, instead of the quick buck artists... We'll all still be around, quietly doing our thing. And a few will be left to say I told you so. I'll just stay out of the conversation... but you all had better have it. And the question for that conversation is: What kind of business do you want to be in? What is the nature, style, and character of the business you want to be in? There's lots of you still here that were pioneers. You started when nobody had heard of 'wireless internet' and you
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 EIRP rules
Rogelio wrote: I'm looking for something simple that breaks down the PtP/PtMP EIRP rules fro the FCC on the 4.9 GHz band, but haven't found anything on google. Someone told me that they follow the same ones as the 2.4 GHz ISM band for PtP and PtMP rules. (Haven't yet confirmed this yet) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] end of thread
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: From his website I find the following; Together, [the two of them, Doug and Mark] we have more than 15 years of collective experience in PC building, service, updates, and repair, as well as internet networking, and connectivity services. Don't know about you, but I simply cannot argue with a whopping 15 years of experience split between two people! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] end of thread
;-) Dang, that could be considered a reply, couldn't it. Must stop. Must not press send - Original Message - From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] end of thread Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: From his website I find the following; Together, [the two of them, Doug and Mark] we have more than 15 years of collective experience in PC building, service, updates, and repair, as well as internet networking, and connectivity services. Don't know about you, but I simply cannot argue with a whopping 15 years of experience split between two people! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] end of thread
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: ;-) Dang, that could be considered a reply, couldn't it. Must stop. Must not press send On a somewhat more serious note, this list has been great. The few snide remarks I see here are far outweighed by really cool people, many of which I've met offline and in person. To the few who maintain this list, thanks. This has been really cool, particularly for ppl like me with limited RF experience. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] end of thread
Ryan and all A lot of the WISPA members are not subscribed to the open public list for this reason. There is a members only list that as far back as I can remember has never had an argument or flame. Also we will work with froggy to make sure it's controlled on this list. I hate having to take a persons posting privileges away. These things happen on an open list from time to time. Thats why we have a list daddy, Mike Delp, the big guy, who walks quietly but carries a big Delete stick. :) George Rogato Ryan Langseth wrote: Over the last week this list has been worthless, full of quasi flame wars, off-topic poking, and trolling by multiple people. IMO this is detrimental to the WISPA group as this is the public facing list of WISPA. As such I am posting a gentle reminder of the list rules as a member (I am not a moderator, so I have one enforcement powers). WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Cat5
We're deploying on a new tower. I'm considering putting 25-pair outdoor cat5 (175'). Anyone have cable they like to use? Anyone have any extra you purchased that you'd like to sell? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] PDX commuter rail wi-fi bid
http://www.dailywireless.org/2008/07/15/portland-commuter-rail-wi-fi-out-to-bid/ Anyone in the northwest area going to take a crack at bidding on this project? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Positive Ground
Someone was asking why positive ground on telco gear. Not sure which list. http://engr.smu.edu/~levine/ee8320/positiveground.pdf WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators?
I'm looking for the math behind this website http://www.distributed-wireless.com/calculators/pathloss_RSSI.html I know the free space loss calculation (20 * Log10 (frequency in MHz) + 20 * Log10 (Distance in Miles) + 36.6), but what is the connection between that and the RSSI at that distant point? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators?
Tx power + antenna gain - free space path loss + rx antenna gain =rssi. - Original Message - From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators? I'm looking for the math behind this website http://www.distributed-wireless.com/calculators/pathloss_RSSI.html I know the free space loss calculation (20 * Log10 (frequency in MHz) + 20 * Log10 (Distance in Miles) + 36.6), but what is the connection between that and the RSSI at that distant point? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators?
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: Tx power + antenna gain - free space path loss + rx antenna gain =rssi. Perfect, thanks. I thought I was missing something different. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators?
Assuming adequate FZ clearance, then (EIRP) - (FSPL) + (RX Ant System Gain) = RSSI Rogelio wrote: I'm looking for the math behind this website http://www.distributed-wireless.com/calculators/pathloss_RSSI.html I know the free space loss calculation (20 * Log10 (frequency in MHz) + 20 * Log10 (Distance in Miles) + 36.6), but what is the connection between that and the RSSI at that distant point? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators?
Here is an example. TX power of 30 dBm (1 watt) + 10 dB antenna gain = 40 dBm EIRP - Path loss (say 10 miles at 915 MHz) 116 dB + 10 dB RX antenna gain = -66 dBm RX signal level - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators? Tx power + antenna gain - free space path loss + rx antenna gain =rssi. - Original Message - From: Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] formulas behind pathloss+RSSI calculators? I'm looking for the math behind this website http://www.distributed-wireless.com/calculators/pathloss_RSSI.html I know the free space loss calculation (20 * Log10 (frequency in MHz) + 20 * Log10 (Distance in Miles) + 36.6), but what is the connection between that and the RSSI at that distant point? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] GIS tools and Charles
Something tells me Charles is going to query this list re: GIS tools. Have you checked out Grass, Charles? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GIS tools and Charles
A wise man (Brian Webster) once told me: Grass is great but other tools will have less of a learning curve and get you where you need to go faster. After wasting some more time with Grass, PostGIS, and the like, I bought Manifold and found that he was right. That said, this was more than two years ago and PostGIS and supporting libraries/applications are no doubt much farther along nowadays. On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Something tells me Charles is going to query this list re: GIS tools. Have you checked out Grass, Charles? -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC Sweeping Design LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] dead thread
Art sent a note to frog and tried to post a cc here. Not being a subscriber to this list it bounced. Being a 77 year old elder statesman of the telco industry, he has alot of perspective. If someone wants a copy of his reply to mr frog, hit me off list. - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] muddy frog I have sort of enjoyed this thread - BUT, here you launch off into something you know nothing about. Chuck McCown is the general manager (And I suspect part owner) of Beehive telephone. The CEO of Beehive is Art Brothers -and a better telecom businessman I don't think you will ever find. . . . WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
Worthy to note, in my opinion the value of the 532a was the daugherboard to allow 9 ports. Great for Industrial complex roof distribution to clients. The 600 series is the only new unit that supports the daugher card (arlge ports), and with greater than 200Mhz CPU processing to handle the processing work load for 9 clients. This is why I called the 600 the replacement for the 532a, now that the 532a is getting discontinued. It appears the 433 is the equivellent COST replacement of the 532a, because it can deliver a bit more speed.. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps 1. 40 meg out of a 532, maybe with no rules, etc. . But thats pushing it! 2. The PowerPC platform is suppose to the be the fastest, with the lower processor in terms of MHZ. However, there are plenty of other options, such as x86 solutions out there that will give you the speed plus the reliability. 3. The 433AH is another Atheros processor, and it has been giving quite a bit better throughput, this came out after the 600. 4. The replacement for the 532 is the 433, not the AH or the 600. The 600 cames out as a high-performance multiple AP device, or actually extreme performance AP in MTs words. The 433 comes just as close if not a bit better than the 532. The 433Ah is the one with the special processor that shoots the performance up. Basically MHZ don't show preformance. I remember when an AMD chip would preform just as good as a Intel chipt at much slower speeds, why they changed to Ahtlon 3800+ etc vs speed ratings.Same difference with these boards. Think of it like a celeron and a Pentium chip, the Celeron is cheap as heck, but I have never thought highly of them compared to the same speed Pentium chip. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Tom DeReggi wrote: From our experience, we believe it is not possible. However, had a related question... We have found processing power to be a big issue to enable full throughput of APs My understanding is that the 532 is being replaced with the 600 series, that also supports the daughterboard.. (Disclaimer: rough estimates below, without specifying configurations, exact results on routerboard's website). 532a (266-400mhz MIPs)was quoted around 10-15,000 pps. 433AH (roughtly 700Mhz Atheros) around 30-40,000 pps. 600 series (200-400mhz PowerPC NetProc) was quoted around 50-60,000 pps. So its understandable the 433AH would outperform the 532. Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? Or is it just the design of the board that accommodates GB NICs and DDR RAM? I just wanted to get some feedback from people on whether the 600 series really are faster than the 433AH boards. The 600s do have other advantages jsutifying their higher price, but thats not related to my question. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:14 PM Subject: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Hey all Mikrotik gurus. Is it possible to pull 40meg+ through an RB532 with NAT'ing (masquerade) turned on? Total of 3 in-house systems running through this one - not a lot going on with it - but I'm having trouble pulling much more than 10 through it. Have narrowed it down to the 532 I've got as my router. If it's not possible no problem - I have other options. If it is, then any suggestions as to what might be the problem? I've been through the duplexing / speed possibilities already and have tested in front of, and behind, the 532. Can pull what I've got (40meg give or take) without the Mik but again, can only get 10 through the 532. Thanks in advance! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
I agree fully with these analagees, but... I was more specically asking what was better about the chip designs. I can compare the design of a Celeron4 to a Pentium4, and know exactly why the Pentium was a faster chip for some type applications. (front side Bus speed, larger level1 cache, etc) What makes the 600's PowerPC processor so good? Will it give us better Nic Throughput, or Software processing better? I'm wondering if its just better because of faster buses, or faster Processing power? I realize the RISC has a streamlined command set for faster processing, but I also thought the MIPs did to on the 532. And the Atheros is brand spanking new, and know absolutely nothing about that yet. I also heard the claims that low end new SBC were so much faster (such as StarOS's sub $75 board), and I learned it couldn't perform worth jack, compared to the full 533Mhz systems. The difference between a 4mbps speed test each way to a 15 mbps speed test each way, ( Test generated by the Radio unit.) PS. The 433AH does look very exciting. Has a streamlined chip, higher MHZ, cost effective, and one more slot! Possibly the perfect AP/SU board, customers have been waiting for from MT. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bo Ring [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to them. Bo Ring Account Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 630-743-1162 . office: 312-205-2515 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 . tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps
Processor speed is only part of the answer to the RISC, CISC battle and this type of radio design. Things flow in a logical operation and waiting occurs on the systems buses in the PC based design. Processor Cache Memory bus Memory Systems bus Ect.. Designs in the different buses or systems architectures, Bus mastering controllers, custom ASICs, as well as memory refresh strategy and ect.. all produce the end result. As you move down the list or through the system, each subsystem runs slower and slower, if you don't have custom ASIC's and have to come back to the proc for filtering and stuff like that, then you continue to tie the bus up. Most vendors provide performance charts based on minimum configuration but as you start adding thing like NAT, IP Filters and stuff like this you put more pressure on the proc and ultimately more pressure on the bus adding wait states, interrupt requests, ect, ect. Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bo Ring Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB532 and 40MBps Question is Why does teh 600 series outperform them all, when it has the slowest processor in MHZ? Are Mikrotik's 532a speeds test at 266 or 400Mhz? And the 600 series at 200 or 400? They did specify on their report. Is the 600's Power PC's processor really that much better that it gets so much better speed at slower Mhz? While I can not speak of it in use between these two routers, there is a reason why it was logical to move to RISC. They are more efficient chips and tend to be even more so when they are used in specific environments. If anyone is a Mac head from way back, you might remember the raw numbers between the 40MHz 68030 and the 25MHz PowerPC when Apple first moved to them. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cat5
We buy Belden shielded outdoor for tower work. On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're deploying on a new tower. I'm considering putting 25-pair outdoor cat5 (175'). Anyone have cable they like to use? Anyone have any extra you purchased that you'd like to sell? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John M. McDowell Boonlink Communications 307 Grand Ave NW Fort Payne, AL 35967 256.844.9932 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.boonlink.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to spoofing, spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or the source, please contact the sender directly. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GIS tools and Charles
Thanks for the vote of support Dylan. I recently looked at Grass's feature list again. While it will work fine for basic mapping, it still has a long way to go if you want to use it for business tools and geocoding. If anyone does look in to Manifold www.manifold.net, do yourself a big favor and buy the training videos from this guy, www.gisadvisor.com. It will get you up to speed real quick and they are great to refer back to from time to time. I still look back on certain lessons when I need to brush up on skills. Manifold is a windows only application but very reasonably priced. It starts at $245 and the whole package with everything they offer is only $625. It will deal with any GIS file type out there, MapInfo, Shape Files, the works, and it is a web based map server. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Dylan Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] GIS tools and Charles A wise man (Brian Webster) once told me: Grass is great but other tools will have less of a learning curve and get you where you need to go faster. After wasting some more time with Grass, PostGIS, and the like, I bought Manifold and found that he was right. That said, this was more than two years ago and PostGIS and supporting libraries/applications are no doubt much farther along nowadays. On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Rogelio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Something tells me Charles is going to query this list re: GIS tools. Have you checked out Grass, Charles? -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC Sweeping Design LLC WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall)
I would go John Buwa Michiana Wireless - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Motorola Canopy User Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: Jeff Ehman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on WiNOG in Chicago (Big Show this Fall) As some of you may (or may not) know, we used to organize large trade shows several years ago...at its height, WiNOG had over 500+ attendees with 50+ exhibiting sponsors (I still have pictures of Rick Harnish and Mac Dearman @ the inaugural WISPA meeting in Chicago almost 3+ years ago =) In 2006, I decided to put an end to the large shows and change the format into a 1-day traveling road-show due to the fact for the there hasn't really been anything all that exciting out there in the market that would drive traffic to get me to put forth the effort to organize a large show...That said, I believe that with recent market developments, including the release of the 3.65 GHz band, the commercialization of WiMAX equipment in the US and the maturation of the market, I have enough stuff to work with to build an interesting content program. That said, before I go out and spend a lot of time and effort throwing something together, I'd like to get a feel for what people feel: Here are my thoughts 1. WiMAX World 2008 is scheduled for Sept 30-Oct 2, 2008 (Tuesday-Thursday) in Chicago...with 100+ exhibitors, it makes for a pretty large gathering of the wireless operator industry 2. While WiMAX World has a lot of people coming together, it's focusing more on large mobile broadband operators (ClearWire / Sprint) and the 802.16e WiMAX standard instead of small-to-medium operators who would utilize 802.16d (fixed) WiMAX 3. A three-day conference pass for WiMAX World costs almost $2,000...additionally, in looking at the programming, it seems more suited for Wall-Street / Gartner-type Analysts than for operators deploying systems in the field 4. WiMAX World (Yankee Group) is aware that they're content program doesn't really cater to the small-to-medium fixed-wireless operators, so they've come to me with a proposal to put together a more focused / targeted program on the side (that's also cheaper) Here's my idea 1. Do WiNOG as a smaller sub-get-together (100 or so people) focused on the specific issues of fixed-operators on September 29-30 (Monday-Tuesday) right before WiMAX World 2. Make WiNOG affordable to the network operators (have 2 tiers of admissions - 1 tier for service providers at say $95 to pay for food and another tier for vendors / consultants / random people at $500+) 3. Give attendees of WiNOG (through some cross-promotional agreement) the ability to go to the WiMAX World Exhibit hall for free on Oct 1-2 (Wednesday / Thursday), so they would get the focused content and operator peer-to-peer discussion along with the chance to experience a massive exhibit hall Thoughts? Comments? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
