Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only one left. Owen Harrell -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the issue of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental human right. No person, anywhere on this planet, should have to worry about things like money when it comes to basic health and wellness. The fact that even one American (or anyone else really, but this is a US-centric list) doesn't, in my mind represents a deep-rooted failure of the free market, and of basic human kindness and compassion. David Smith MVN.net -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
History should be a guide; not a box. Our country has proven that our system of government and its attitude towards the free market is unmatched by any other system of government past or present. However, multinational corporations are something new that our system is having a hard time with. This is because a perfect capitalist is a monopolist and monopolies destroy innovation, which is the heart of our country's success. Healthcare is tough because it allows for so many straw-man arguments that real debate is lost in the noise. Further, healthcare is now a global concern, so the actions of other nations impact our own. What I would like to see is a real debate that leads to a solution. Businesses simply can't sustain the increasing cost of healthcare and neither can their employees. Right now we have the scariest of all worlds whether you are a liberal or a conservative. People without healthcare aren't healthy and cost us all too much. Doctors have to employ more people to deal with insurance company bureaucracy than to actually provide healthcare. Further, as a percentage of GDP we spend the most and get the least. -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:29 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Owen, I think maybe what you're missing is the historical perspective. Our history is people left Europe which was mostly feudal with kings and rulers dictating the details of people's lives and these people came here to be free. Collaboration is needed so the whole can exceed what the mere individual is capable of but as is evident in the constitution the founding fathers were trying to have just enough, just the bare minimum of government needed to all that to happen. That's why according to the constitution the federal government's roll is only supposed to involve national security and interstate commerce. At one point in time the US government felt it was necessary in order to provide good telephone communications to force there to be only one national telephone company (the streets were getting cluttered with wires and clearly none of the little companies would ever cover the entire nation). Some years later the government felt it was necessary to break up that telecommunications company (the divestiture) and allow competition in those markets. Both decisions were right at the time. Certain aspects of socialism have merit and if you exclude a few totalitarian regimes no socialist country is purely socialist without any private property or capitalism, and all mainly capitalist countries have some social programs. So it comes down to how much is right. Most people feel we need Medicare, VA hospitals and other things you mention below (we're a compassionate people though the majority would say those things need fixing) but it's a big leap from a medical system which takes care of the elderly and honored veterans to a healthcare system for everyone. And from what I've heard (I watch Glen Beck and Jon Stewart so I know I'm getting both sides) there's some language in the government's proposals which clearly makes their thing an option. It sounds more like an offer you can't refuse when they say you can only keep your current private insurance if you don't make any changes or else you default to the government system. What the majority of Americans want is freedom even if it's dangerous (think 2nd amendment). Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Matt, I wasn't meaning history is a guide or a box (as in we base what we do now on the past), but merely something to remind us that yes, we are different from Europe. Europe's methods have their merit, but many Americans would feel stifled and over regulated in a European system. It's like the difference between living in a condo (has it's merits) or having your own house in the country where you can step outside and take a whiz in the front yard or shoot your gun if you want to. Both are good. Both are right. That's why I hope what the government does is really an option. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Matt Liotta wrote: History should be a guide; not a box. Our country has proven that our system of government and its attitude towards the free market is unmatched by any other system of government past or present. However, multinational corporations are something new that our system is having a hard time with. This is because a perfect capitalist is a monopolist and monopolies destroy innovation, which is the heart of our country's success. Healthcare is tough because it allows for so many straw-man arguments that real debate is lost in the noise. Further, healthcare is now a global concern, so the actions of other nations impact our own. What I would like to see is a real debate that leads to a solution. Businesses simply can't sustain the increasing cost of healthcare and neither can their employees. Right now we have the scariest of all worlds whether you are a liberal or a conservative. People without healthcare aren't healthy and cost us all too much. Doctors have to employ more people to deal with insurance company bureaucracy than to actually provide healthcare. Further, as a percentage of GDP we spend the most and get the least. -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:29 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Owen, I think maybe what you're missing is the historical perspective. Our history is people left Europe which was mostly feudal with kings and rulers dictating the details of people's lives and these people came here to be free. Collaboration is needed so the whole can exceed what the mere individual is capable of but as is evident in the constitution the founding fathers were trying to have just enough, just the bare minimum of government needed to all that to happen. That's why according to the constitution the federal government's roll is only supposed to involve national security and interstate commerce. At one point in time the US government felt it was necessary in order to provide good telephone communications to force there to be only one national telephone company (the streets were getting cluttered with wires and clearly none of the little companies would ever cover the entire nation). Some years later the government felt it was necessary to break up that telecommunications company (the divestiture) and allow competition in those markets. Both decisions were right at the time. Certain aspects of socialism have merit and if you exclude a few totalitarian regimes no socialist country is purely socialist without any private property or capitalism, and all mainly capitalist countries have some social programs. So it comes down to how much is right. Most people feel we need Medicare, VA hospitals and other things you mention below (we're a compassionate people though the majority would say those things need fixing) but it's a big leap from a medical system which takes care of the elderly and honored veterans to a healthcare system for everyone. And from what I've heard (I watch Glen Beck and Jon Stewart so I know I'm getting both sides) there's some language in the government's proposals which clearly makes their thing an option. It sounds more like an offer you can't refuse when they say you can only keep your current private insurance if you don't make any changes or else you default to the government system. What the majority of Americans want is freedom even if it's dangerous (think 2nd amendment). Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Personal responsibility? If they choose to buy a 73 LCD TV and a brand new Chrysler instead of budgeting for their health, but then run to the ER when a kid has a runny nose, they deserve the however many thousand dollar bill coming to them. Advocate and persuade, but don't force. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 20:15, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: No, not that simple... This I gotta hear. How do you justify not providing health care to any human that needs it? David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Yeah, the VA's healthcare.. there's a system we all should want. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Why not? Just extend what is already in place with Medicare and enroll people region by region. While at it, lump the other government single payer plans into it like the VA and Railroad Workers. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have better access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the free market has failed miserably. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date: 12/07/09 07:33:00
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
What's great about the commercial insurers, is that if you're not happy with how one company is ran, you can move to another. Just like if someone doesn't like Comcast's customer service or Verizon's service options, they can choose me for service. Just think if Qwest was everyone's sole Internet provider. There are no other commercial based first world countries I can move to (rescinding my US citizenship) to free myself of the burden of socialist healthcare. Having private options in a public world means you're paying for your healthcare twice. It's like being forced to have Qwest DSL, but electing to have FiOS instead. You're paying for 2 Internet services, one great and the other not. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.ca Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:57 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I'd like to make a quick comment about single payer. Its generally painted as being a great socialist evil in the US. That's not quite true, although there are bound to be instances where its abused, just like there are lots of instances where commercial insurers deny coverage or limit treatment options. It is often said that single payer means you have no treatment options and your choice of providers is limited. Not true here. In fact, no even close. I had a brush with prostate cancer three years ago. I did the normal research we all would, picked out the treatment I thought I wanted, and picked out the surgeon I wanted just like you hopefully could. Went to Toronto for a consult with the Head of Urology at Toronto General who has one of the best reps in the Province, we worked out a treatment plan, I went to Toronto for surgery performed by him and I've had a clean bill of health for the last couple of years. I had my choice of practitioners, although some would require longer waits than others, had my choice of hospitals, and had my choice of treatments. Hard to ask for much more really. The other reality is that single payer takes some pressure off treatment by next-quarter profit numbers, where the insurers have to answer to their shareholders on a very short-term basis. Insurance companies are after all in business to make money, and western business culture demands great numbers month after month, quarter after quarter and year after year. As a result, no private insurance company is in a position to take the long view about anything. If they did their CEO would get lynched. One of the huge benefits of single payer that often gets lost in the rhetoric is the ability for the payer (the government) to take a much longer view of benefits to public health. Let me give you another personal example. I've had a serious weight problem since I was a kid. Got to the point five years ago that I weighed 300 lbs, and I'm only 5' 8. Tried all the diets etc, but got heavier every year. I went looking for alternatives, and found a pretty good one with a bariatric surgery program with the Centres for Laparoscopic Obesity Surgery run by Dr. Rutledge and available in a number of centres in the US. Very good reputation, lower risks than normal and terrific five year results for taking weight off and keeping it off. There was no equivalent program available at the time in Ontario. They are working hard to create one now, but it takes time. So I worked with my GP, and we submitted an application to OHIP (Ontario Hospital Insurance Plan), the single payer for the province. Detailed what the problem was, what the future health risks were, what the surgery was going to cost and what we expected to gain from it. Took a bit to get it approved, but approve it they did because of the typical $2M plus lifetime cost of a patient with morbid obesity. Diabetes, cardiac issues etc. Had the surgery, lost nearly 150 lbs and I've now been stable at 155 for coming up on four years. Pretty damn cool. Went for the surgery in Michigan at Bay City. Caught a fairly unpleasant case of pneumonia in the hospital, so ended up with a ten days longer than planned stay. OHIP covered everything. No deductable at all. Came to $42,000US which isn't chump change, but my quality of life is immeasurably higher now. The point is, about 70% of US patients are denied coverage from their insurers for this procedure. Most have to dig up the $17,000 base cost out of their hip pockets, or do without and become a huge burden later due to very high future costs down the road. Not to mention shortened lives, lousy quality of life and so forth. Single payer can mean better opportunities for preventative care at all levels, not just checkups at your GP. For one I'm very grateful, it made a big difference to my life. George -Original Message- From:
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Well haven't the NTIA and RUS been excellent examples of how quickly government can take a program that already exists and expand it to more people? It'll take them 1 year from the President's pen to spending the money on a program they already had. I can't wait until they do that with healthcare! - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:37 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance So is food an absolute necessity. Does this mean we should have a single farmer system run by the government? Maybe we should have a single ISP system, run by the government? Single car maker, run by the government?Single housing contractor, run by Congress?Single clothing maker, the federal clothing agency? Come on. You just can't go there, can you?Well, some people would. They view government as holy and perfect, and just have a religious faith in it.The rest of us live in the real world and it would seem that given a few minutes of thought, it makes less than no sense to have the government run health care. Medicare?Please.Don't even dream of such nonsense. Medicare reimburses doctors, hospitals, etc, somewhere between 10 and 60% of the COST of what people who are on medicare actually get.The rest of us who actually PAY are paying to subsidize them. If everyone were transferred to Medicare, it would take somewhere between 90 and 270 days for almost every hospital, doctor's office, etc, to either go bankrupt or close voluntarily. At the rates at which Mecicare pays, the best doctor you could get would be an email conference with some guy in India who collects $3 per consult. It is NOT an option. Frankly, for those of you want a single payer system... Could you tell the rest of us what experience you have with a federal agency that has so inspired you with confidence over their efficiency, responsiveness, wisdom, and fantastic ability, that you stood in awe and said I want them in charge of my life! And, not only did that, but in your mind, completely made up for the Postal service, the IRS, EPA, and all the other alphabet soup which are stunning examples of how to be wrong, wasteful, stupid and irresponsible, overbearing, abusive, rude, power-trip seekers, and yet never get fired? If that hasn't happened to you, then what sort of fantasy do you indulge in, that makes you think the government is just so darn good at running stuff? Please provide an example of how the federal government is such a fantastic administrator of our money, while you're at it... I have just GOT to know where these fantasies... Or, maybe they are real life experiences - the likes of which I have never witnessed, read about, heard about, seen, or experienced personally... Come from, that so inspire people to put their life in the hands of Congress. My experience says I'd rather do surgery on myself. -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the issue of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental human right. No person, anywhere on this planet, should have to worry about things like money when it comes to basic health and wellness. The fact that even one American (or anyone else really, but this is a US-centric list) doesn't, in my mind represents a deep-rooted failure of the free market, and of basic human kindness and compassion. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I wonder if the people that did that report are from the University of East Anglia. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Lets get our fact straight. The WHO report that you are referencing that puts us at 37 is also reported to have a number of flaws. And Cuba on that report is actually lower than the US, at #39. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html Canada at 30 is laughable - as evidenced by the daily bus trips made in to the US for people to pay to see a doctor, versus waiting on the Canadian health care system. http://www.healthandsharing.com/21/articledetail has some interesting facts, I really like the one about the the member of the Canadian Parliment, who when faced with cancer jumped ship on the Canadian health care system, to seek care in the US. And what country is the leader in medical research and innovation other (moreso) than the US? Cite, please. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Actually, most of the advancement now is coming from other countries. We're behind but since we live in it, we can't smell it. We rank near number 37 in health care, that certainly is not being a leader. Even our friend, Cuba ranks higher than we do. Shameful for a country as well off as we are. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance With no profit we would have no advancement. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'Tom Sharples' tsharp...@qorvus.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 09:22, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: What's great about the commercial insurers, is that if you're not happy with how one company is ran, you can move to another. Except that you often can't, thanks to the weasel words pre-existing conditions. And even if you do, insurance companies love rescission. Yeah, you can definitely sign up and they'll take your money, but whether they'll actually pay for your much-needed health care is pretty much a crapshoot. Health insurance is fundamentally broken. At this point it exists solely to drain money and resources from patients and doctors alike. Patients pay more than they can afford for insurance that may or may not actually be there when they need it; doctors are forced to hire large billing staffs to chase after the insurance companies, who will take basically any excuse not to pay claims. It raises everyone's costs and provides little or no real value to anyone involved (except the insurance companies themselves). I'm sure most of us have built a network on some unproven technology that looked good on the surface, but when it was deployed, it turned out to be a horrible failure, and we had to spend time and effort to replace and rebuild. (I won't name vendors but I know I've done this at least once.) Health insurance is just like this - it sounds good, but this specific implementation has failed completely; it's time to pull it out and start over. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I support a system for people that truly cannot afford it themselves. Just pulling a number out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's only 5% of the population. My parents crested $40k in annual income not long ago, yet we (family of 5) always had everything we needed to live and grow, including healthcare. I believe Illinois recently expanded their income requirements for the low income government health program to $75k for a family of 4. Excuse me? In going a little bit off topic (Hey, this conversation is relevant to any business, regardless of it going anywhere or not.) Why can't this and most federal programs be done on a state level? I believe Massachusetts has had government healthcare for a couple years. Let them have it and let Texas not! Let Massachusetts have government social security, welfare, etc. and Texas not! (No, I don't live in Texas, but it's a largely populated conservative state.) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 22:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Um, thats what happens now. I pay mine and you pay yours. So, wheres the problem? Oh ya, there are those that cant or choose not to. So now we want to force them to? And I thought this country was founded on freedom? The key is those that can't. I see it as a humanitarian cause to provide essential human-welfare services for those who are, through no fault of their own, unable to attain them otherwise. You're welcome to disagree; I genuinely don't understand the logic there, but to each his own. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
Thanks Scottie,,, We have the power company coming out also to check power. That was my first thought was brown out. This site has had power issues in the past. I did have one radio out of the bunch that had reset back to defaults. So far no packet storms detected, nor any more issues with failing radios. Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi I have not used the Engenius 3610 personally, but I have used the 400mW versions in outdoor and indoor environments. I found that any surge in power, either from lightning, or brown outs, would set them to factory defaults. Have you tried accessing them through the factory default settings to see if you could access them via wired? I gave up on these unit's after a year of trying to make them work out in any situation. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:52:46 -0500 If you can't see the 2.4 spectrum then the device simply locked up. What is causing it sounds like a bug to me. One simple broadcast packet nails several of the radios and freaks them out. Do you have the latest firmware for them? In the past these radios would lose their config if they had to switch modes (that is, if the default mode out of the box is bridge you will lose the config - if the default mode out of the box is AP you're safe). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Long alan.l...@aerowire.net wrote: Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the sniffer going now. Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi When you say no wifi does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4? I would have to guess packet storm as well. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: Broadcast storm? Alan Long wrote: I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out. Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues? I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up. http://www.aerowire.net Alan Long Director of Network Operations Aerowire http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmapaddr=687+North+Dean+Roadcsz=Aubu rn%2C+AL+36830country=us 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 mailto:alan.l...@aerowire.net alan.l...@aerowire.net tel: mobile: http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=3342759998E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 3342759998 http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=336092E mail=along5...@yahoo.com 336092 https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883src=client_sig_212_1_card_joini nvite=1=en Always have my latest info http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig=en Want a signature like this?
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Sure sign of a person losing his argument...personal attacks. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:22 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: What's great about the commercial insurers, is that if you're not happy with how one company is ran, you can move to another. Just like if someone doesn't like Comcast's customer service or Verizon's service options, they can choose me for service. Just think if Qwest was everyone's sole Internet provider. There are no other commercial based first world countries I can move to (rescinding my US citizenship) to free myself of the burden of socialist healthcare. Actually, that is not true. In many markets there is no choice. Further, since most people depend on their employer for insurance they can't change healthcare providers without changing jobs. And, even if they wanted to change healthcare providers they may not be able to because of a preexisting condition e.g. pregnancy. You are what is wrong with the healthcare debate. Get informed or get out. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:10 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote: Not sure where you got this info Matt. I've seen just the opposite. In Mississippi they had lost most of the OB/GYN docs. They are now getting what they need since they enacted tort reform. You've seen or read the studies? Because the studies are very clear on this. Remember, exceptions don't prove the rule. The cost of malpractice, jury awards, and defensive medicine are massive. Indeed, but no better viable system of checks and balances in healthcare has yet to emerge. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
So then we remove interstate restrictions and if California continues to regulate against the wishes of their citizens, they can move elsewhere. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Broadwick jeffl...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:04 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Not in some states Mike. I think California only has 4-6 insurance companies that are allowed to sell policies in the state. That's one of the big problems, along with individual state mandates about what MUST be in those polices. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance What's great about the commercial insurers, is that if you're not happy with how one company is ran, you can move to another. Just like if someone doesn't like Comcast's customer service or Verizon's service options, they can choose me for service. Just think if Qwest was everyone's sole Internet provider. There are no other commercial based first world countries I can move to (rescinding my US citizenship) to free myself of the burden of socialist healthcare. Having private options in a public world means you're paying for your healthcare twice. It's like being forced to have Qwest DSL, but electing to have FiOS instead. You're paying for 2 Internet services, one great and the other not. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: George Morris ghmor...@candlelight.ca Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:57 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I'd like to make a quick comment about single payer. Its generally painted as being a great socialist evil in the US. That's not quite true, although there are bound to be instances where its abused, just like there are lots of instances where commercial insurers deny coverage or limit treatment options. It is often said that single payer means you have no treatment options and your choice of providers is limited. Not true here. In fact, no even close. I had a brush with prostate cancer three years ago. I did the normal research we all would, picked out the treatment I thought I wanted, and picked out the surgeon I wanted just like you hopefully could. Went to Toronto for a consult with the Head of Urology at Toronto General who has one of the best reps in the Province, we worked out a treatment plan, I went to Toronto for surgery performed by him and I've had a clean bill of health for the last couple of years. I had my choice of practitioners, although some would require longer waits than others, had my choice of hospitals, and had my choice of treatments. Hard to ask for much more really. The other reality is that single payer takes some pressure off treatment by next-quarter profit numbers, where the insurers have to answer to their shareholders on a very short-term basis. Insurance companies are after all in business to make money, and western business culture demands great numbers month after month, quarter after quarter and year after year. As a result, no private insurance company is in a position to take the long view about anything. If they did their CEO would get lynched. One of the huge benefits of single payer that often gets lost in the rhetoric is the ability for the payer (the government) to take a much longer view of benefits to public health. Let me give you another personal example. I've had a serious weight problem since I was a kid. Got to the point five years ago that I weighed 300 lbs, and I'm only 5' 8. Tried all the diets etc, but got heavier every year. I went looking for alternatives, and found a pretty good one with a bariatric surgery program with the Centres for Laparoscopic Obesity Surgery run by Dr. Rutledge and available in a number of centres in the US. Very good reputation, lower risks than normal and terrific five year results for taking weight off and keeping it off. There was no equivalent program available at the time in Ontario. They are working hard to create one now, but it takes time. So I worked with my GP, and we submitted an application to OHIP (Ontario Hospital Insurance Plan), the single payer for the province. Detailed what the problem was, what the future health risks were, what the surgery was going to cost and what we expected to gain from it. Took a bit to get it approved, but approve it they did because of the typical $2M plus lifetime cost of a patient with morbid obesity. Diabetes,
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Agreed. Tort reform will help save healthcare costs and enable more doctors to practice their trade. My doctor just shut down his practice of 20-30 years and let his entire staff go due to the cost of business growing out of control. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:11 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance You've got that one wrong. Studies have shown that in states where tort reform was enacted there was no effect on the number of doctors or the cost of healthcare. Specifically to your point, those states with tort reform did NOT see a reduction in malpractice insurance premiums. -Matt Not sure where you got this info Matt. I've seen just the opposite. In Mississippi they had lost most of the OB/GYN docs. They are now getting what they need since they enacted tort reform. The cost of malpractice, jury awards, and defensive medicine are massive. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Mike wrote: The first is to allow people to die with dignity. I saw something on 60 minutes recently where a trauma doctor was talking about how 60% of people spend the last few days of their lives in intensive care at great expense while compassionate medical personnel pull out all stops to prolong their lives. When is enough, enough? I have a living will and will come back to haunt anyone not respecting my wishes. Having watched two relatives die over the course of days being starved to death as part of a humane end of life treatment I understand very well that our current system needs euthanasia reform. The fact that it would save money is even better, but it is not about the money. The second is a big one, tort reform. I don't know exactly how we can get a handle on that one, but the frivolous lawsuits are adding an immense burden to health care costs. OBGYN doctors are leaving the field because they can't afford malpractice insurance. Those who stay are charging ever greater fees in order to cover their premiums. And that is only one branch of medicine. Many others suffer from the same dynamics. You've got that one wrong. Studies have shown that in states where tort reform was enacted there was no effect on the number of doctors or the cost of healthcare. Specifically to your point, those states with tort reform did NOT see a reduction in malpractice insurance premiums. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Brad Belton wrote: Agreed. Tort reform will help save healthcare costs and enable more doctors to practice their trade. My doctor just shut down his practice of 20-30 years and let his entire staff go due to the cost of business growing out of control. Go get his income statement and you will find where the costs where. It wasn't malpractice that drove him out of business. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote: From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/us/05doctors.html?_r=1 The article certainly shares some facts and anecdotes regarding the 2003 Texas tort reform. However, it doesn't point to any research that ties cause and effect. What I find interesting about the Texas case is that Texas has one of the best and most thorough databases regarding insurance claims. The idea behind the 2003 tort reform was to stop the excess malpractice problems. However, we now know there wasn't actually a problem. See http://www.utexas.edu/law/academics/centers/clcjm/stability_release.pdf , which references a study released in 2005 that found, Recent spikes in medical malpractice premiums in Texas were not caused by rising payouts on claims or rising jury verdicts. The study looked at data between 1988 and 2002 i.e. before the 2003 tort reform. Additionally, the proponents of tort reform claim it will lower insurance costs. Yet in Texas insurance premiums rose the 3rd fastest nationally. Unfortunately, tort reform is a red herring when it comes to healthcare costs. The estimates right now are that jury awards for malpractice cost about $3.6 billion annually, while we spend $2.3 trillion annually. That would mean jury awards count for .001% of our healthcare costs. Some would argue there is more than jury awards to malpractice cost. To that end, a 2004 report by the Congressional Budget Office said medical malpractice makes up only 2 percent of U.S. health spending. Even “significant reductions” would do little to curb health-care expenses, it concluded. Then there is insurance giant WellPoint that released its own report detailing what it thought was the source of increased costs, which doesn't conclude malpractice is a major issue. See http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS137490+27-May-2009+PRN20090527 . -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
From the Washington Post also. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/30/AR2009073002816.html Regards Michael Baird From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/us/05doctors.html?_r=1 Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Dec 8, 2009, at 11:10 AM, Jeff Broadwick wrote: Not sure where you got this info Matt. I've seen just the opposite. In Mississippi they had lost most of the OB/GYN docs. They are now getting what they need since they enacted tort reform. You've seen or read the studies? Because the studies are very clear on this. Remember, exceptions don't prove the rule. The cost of malpractice, jury awards, and defensive medicine are massive. Indeed, but no better viable system of checks and balances in healthcare has yet to emerge. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
I'm not a big fan of grids - especially for ptp links. Ice is your enemy. I really like the ARC 5ghz 23dbi panels (they do 4.9 to 6ghz I think). Small, strong and have worked very well for me. I use the rb411 and have 3 or 4 ptp links up right now. Probably going to be putting up another one soon. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Frequency Planning
Anyone have any suggestions for a program that we can use to document frequencies that is easy to use? Trying to plan 5ghz frequencies across several towers that are close proximity. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
[Having private options in a public world means you're paying for your healthcare twice. It's like being forced to have Qwest DSL, but electing to have FiOS instead. You're paying for 2 Internet services, one great and the other not.] Kinda like when I was home schooled as a kid and my parents had to pay school taxes for public school? Only makes sense that we'd again pay twice for another public option. Good analogy. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! One time, I had to borrow a friends bucket I'll assume you meant bucket truck. The day we bought our bucket truck and brought it home, I took a 3/8 drill bit to about 3 places in the bottom of the bucket to let water out. That's not a good idea. You now give a place for electricity to run through your body if you happen to move between a ground source and an electrical line. I've thought of doing that to my truck, but it's really not hard to just dump the buckets. I've worked for several electric companies and understand the reasoning behind this. But, if you dont use a bucket near high power lines then its not an issue. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Andy Trimmell wrote: Kinda like when I was home schooled as a kid and my parents had to pay school taxes for public school? Only makes sense that we'd again pay twice for another public option. Good analogy. I don't think your parents had to pay twice. They could have sent you to public school. This why the analogy breaks down. A more reasonable analogy would be an existing public service that is augmented or replaced with a private one for personal reasons. Maybe owning a car when public transit is available. Or living in a gated community with security when there is a police force. Or having a bottled water service in addition to your regular water service. Or using a private toll bridge to shorten a trip as compared with using the public road. These are all examples of the private option being used because of personal circumstances even though a public option exists. I personally would like to see something more like the post office. This is a public organization that is self-supported. Yet UPS and FedEx are viable companies offering a private choice. I like how online retailers have learned to mix and match the post office with UPS and FedEx to minimize their shipping costs and yet still get their products to consumers effectively. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Heh, its still the land of opportunity - just for the wrong people (crooks, criminals, politicians, lawyers, etc) :) On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the issue of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental human right. No person, anywhere on this planet, should have to worry about things like money when it comes to basic health and wellness. The fact that even one American (or anyone else really, but this is a US-centric list) doesn't, in my mind represents a deep-rooted failure of the free market, and of basic human kindness and compassion. David Smith MVN.net -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
The post office is bankrupt, not self supporting. http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/18/the-next-bankruptcy-the-u-s-postal-service/ Regards Michael Baird On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Andy Trimmell wrote: Kinda like when I was home schooled as a kid and my parents had to pay school taxes for public school? Only makes sense that we'd again pay twice for another public option. Good analogy. I don't think your parents had to pay twice. They could have sent you to public school. This why the analogy breaks down. A more reasonable analogy would be an existing public service that is augmented or replaced with a private one for personal reasons. Maybe owning a car when public transit is available. Or living in a gated community with security when there is a police force. Or having a bottled water service in addition to your regular water service. Or using a private toll bridge to shorten a trip as compared with using the public road. These are all examples of the private option being used because of personal circumstances even though a public option exists. I personally would like to see something more like the post office. This is a public organization that is self-supported. Yet UPS and FedEx are viable companies offering a private choice. I like how online retailers have learned to mix and match the post office with UPS and FedEx to minimize their shipping costs and yet still get their products to consumers effectively. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Well, this discussion is about what is coming , not what we have but to make you happy - stop Medicare, Social Security, and shut down the VA hospitals! VA patients would be much better served in the private sector with much less waste. Medicare Social Security: The biggest pyramid scheme in history. Let me keep invest in my retirement for myself. Sheesh! Mankind made it without those programs before they existed why not now? -RickG On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell o...@essex1.com wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only one left. Owen Harrell -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the issue of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental human right. No person, anywhere on this planet, should have to worry about things like money when it comes to basic health and wellness. The fact that even one American (or anyone else really, but this is a US-centric list) doesn't, in my mind represents a deep-rooted failure of the free market, and of basic human kindness and
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
IMO, this thread is getting pretty far off track and is wasting both time and WISPA resources. I respectfully request that everyone please consider the value in getting back to work and releasing this list for more productive WISP-focused usage. jack RickG wrote: Well, this discussion is about what is coming , not what we have but to make you happy - stop Medicare, Social Security, and shut down the VA hospitals! VA patients would be much better served in the private sector with much less waste. Medicare Social Security: The biggest pyramid scheme in history. Let me keep invest in my retirement for myself. Sheesh! Mankind made it without those programs before they existed why not now? -RickG On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell o...@essex1.com wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only one left. Owen Harrell -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" d...@mvn.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a "free market". It's "failure" is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have "access" to health care? I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the issue of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental human right. No person,
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
China - the land of human rights? The better questions is why they are looking better financially. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com wrote: On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: Our profit is what drives the medical research and inspiration to make something better. Actually, most medical RD is funded by the government. Further, even many of the corporate RD programs depend on government funding. The greatest profit based economy? The USA, and we're doing quite well. The greatest government based economy? We haven't seen them in 18 years. You may want to check your facts. Unfortunately, China is looking much better financially than we are. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have better access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the free market has failed miserably. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Rocket range
We want to put up an M Rocket in 5gig frequency range and have four customers between 6-8 miles. Will our 17dbi 120 degree antenna reach them? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rocket range
It can depending on antenna height/customer antenna/LOS condition. Regards Michael Baird We want to put up an M Rocket in 5gig frequency range and have four customers between 6-8 miles. Will our 17dbi 120 degree antenna reach them? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I run a Maine WISP, and we use the state government choice health insurance. We feel providing health insurance is an important benefit to attracting and retaining quality workers of all ages, especially young ones with families. I idealogically disfavor our states plan, but it saved us money over the other choices, and we like our business to stay in the black a little bit, our decision to use it is a strict financial choice. First, Maine has lots of older folks who come here to retire (and eventually die), and the young people tend to move out after high school or college because housing costs have grown and opportunity hasn't as much. Thus, we have a disproportionate of expensive to keep healthy citizens. Our state also has large areas that are economically disadvantaged, where recreational pharmaceuticals, marijuana, and Allen's coffee brandy are major economic players. We also have a state goverment that bounces back and forth between independent centrist and leftist. Our state government is highly impressionable by lobbyists based on my broadband/telecom interactions with state government. Folks get elected because they are nice community oriented people, not because of political idealogy when it comes to local politics. State regulation of insurance has meant that there are typically 2-3 choices of insurance/hmo companies on the market, none of which are great deals. I don't understand all of it, but something in their regulations prevents more companies from providing insurance in Maine. This is not only for health insurance, but for automotive insurance as well. So the state created this idealist governemnt health care option called dirigo, which is the state motto. It was going to do great things and save us lots of money and create more choices. But the regulations remained, and dirigo just has been a commerical insurnace company being the low bid operator, and the government provided some discounts and entitlements to go along with it, along with rebranding it as their own. Our insurance cards have both digiro and the underlying providers' name on it. After about the first year of the plan, they were losing big money on it, so it was closed to most new applicants to prevent more money loss. Sort of a lose money on every customer, but make up for it with bulk like the dialup ISPs did in their heyday. That's why it doesn't have as many users as originally planned. It continues to operate rebadging private health insurance, adding discounts, entitlements, etc.. and is paid for by a tax on private insurance. Something tells me this deters competition more than anything. It's only marginally cheaper, meaning it's costs are a year or two behind the market. I would not call it a success. It's a government business failure that's kept alive by taxes. Nothing was innovative about it. Some credit is deserved for trying, but the implementation is what naysayers expected. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:08:09AM -0500, Jeff Broadwick wrote: The Massachusetts and Maine programs have blown through their budgets...I don't think Maine even signed up as many people as they expected. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I support a system for people that truly cannot afford it themselves. Just pulling a number out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's only 5% of the population. My parents crested $40k in annual income not long ago, yet we (family of 5) always had everything we needed to live and grow, including healthcare. I believe Illinois recently expanded their income requirements for the low income government health program to $75k for a family of 4. Excuse me? In going a little bit off topic (Hey, this conversation is relevant to any business, regardless of it going anywhere or not.) Why can't this and most federal programs be done on a state level? I believe Massachusetts has had government healthcare for a couple years. Let them have it and let Texas not! Let Massachusetts have government social security, welfare, etc. and Texas not! (No, I don't live in Texas, but it's a largely populated conservative state.) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 22:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Um, thats what happens now. I pay mine and you pay yours. So, wheres the problem? Oh ya, there are those that cant or choose not to. So now we want to force
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Hahahahaha! I hope you got it on the first shot. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Just to break up the insurance thread a bit... I shot my first turkey today. It scared the crap out of everyone else in the frozen food section. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
A man who also speaks from the truth. Thank you, Owen. That was a lot of words from you, brother! You must really mean what ya say. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Owen Harrell Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:32 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only one left. Owen Harrell -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? I suppose we're taking fundamentally different approaches to the issue of health care. I don't see it as one that can (or should) be solved by the free market - as far as I'm concerned, it's a fundamental human right. No person, anywhere on this planet, should have to worry about things like money when it comes to basic health and wellness. The fact that even one American (or anyone else really, but this is a US-centric list) doesn't, in my mind represents a deep-rooted failure of the free market, and of basic human kindness and compassion. David Smith MVN.net -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
You got it right on that. The position that I'm not gonna help these people who think they are entitled argument is foolish because yes, they may get it for free when they don't work for it but on the back end they are already costing you and you can't see that. I do a lot of work for the local doctors offices. Anytime that I go there the waiting rooms are full of people who possess a medical card. Welfare. Free, socialist healthcare. They have it and they use it. Me, a few weeks ago the wife dropped a log on her foot on the way to the fireplace. Smashed it really bad. Didn't matter that it was bleeding, cut (barefoot, go figure but who am I to say anything. sheeesh!) black and blue, a real mess. She refused to go to the hospital because it would cost us money. The co-pay and deductible and all that I bet would have been close to 500 bucks all said and done. You see, we ALREADY have what some are against but those of us paying for it can't use it ourselves because we're too busy paying for THAT socialist system as well as our own capitalist system. We pay twice and then some. Myself, I'd rather just pay once. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance History should be a guide; not a box. Our country has proven that our system of government and its attitude towards the free market is unmatched by any other system of government past or present. However, multinational corporations are something new that our system is having a hard time with. This is because a perfect capitalist is a monopolist and monopolies destroy innovation, which is the heart of our country's success. Healthcare is tough because it allows for so many straw-man arguments that real debate is lost in the noise. Further, healthcare is now a global concern, so the actions of other nations impact our own. What I would like to see is a real debate that leads to a solution. Businesses simply can't sustain the increasing cost of healthcare and neither can their employees. Right now we have the scariest of all worlds whether you are a liberal or a conservative. People without healthcare aren't healthy and cost us all too much. Doctors have to employ more people to deal with insurance company bureaucracy than to actually provide healthcare. Further, as a percentage of GDP we spend the most and get the least. -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:29 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Owen, I think maybe what you're missing is the historical perspective. Our history is people left Europe which was mostly feudal with kings and rulers dictating the details of people's lives and these people came here to be free. Collaboration is needed so the whole can exceed what the mere individual is capable of but as is evident in the constitution the founding fathers were trying to have just enough, just the bare minimum of government needed to all that to happen. That's why according to the constitution the federal government's roll is only supposed to involve national security and interstate commerce. At one point in time the US government felt it was necessary in order to provide good telephone communications to force there to be only one national telephone company (the streets were getting cluttered with wires and clearly none of the little companies would ever cover the entire nation). Some years later the government felt it was necessary to break up that telecommunications company (the divestiture) and allow competition in those markets. Both decisions were right at the time. Certain aspects of socialism have merit and if you exclude a few totalitarian regimes no socialist country is purely socialist without any private property or capitalism, and all mainly capitalist countries have some social programs. So it comes down to how much is right. Most people feel we need Medicare, VA hospitals and other things you mention below (we're a compassionate people though the majority would say those things need fixing) but it's a big leap from a medical system which takes care of the elderly and honored veterans to a healthcare system for everyone. And from what I've heard (I watch Glen Beck and Jon Stewart so I know I'm getting both sides) there's some language in the government's proposals which clearly makes their thing an option. It sounds more like an offer you can't refuse when they say you can only keep your current private insurance if you don't make any changes or else you default to the government system. What the majority of Americans want is freedom even if it's dangerous (think 2nd amendment). Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too. Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Take the profit out of health care and the quality will go with it. Would you do your job for what the gov will pay? Maybe you haven't noticed, but it takes a smart person and a whole lot of hard work to get into and get through medical school in the US. If there is no incentive above helping my fellow man, then you will see a mass exodus of the best people in the field. I know several doctors (specialists too) who are already looking at plan B in case of a government takeover of the health care sytem. Cameron Robert West wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have better access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the free market has failed miserably. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date: 12/07/09 07:33:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I'm moving to Illinois. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I support a system for people that truly cannot afford it themselves. Just pulling a number out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's only 5% of the population. My parents crested $40k in annual income not long ago, yet we (family of 5) always had everything we needed to live and grow, including healthcare. I believe Illinois recently expanded their income requirements for the low income government health program to $75k for a family of 4. Excuse me? In going a little bit off topic (Hey, this conversation is relevant to any business, regardless of it going anywhere or not.) Why can't this and most federal programs be done on a state level? I believe Massachusetts has had government healthcare for a couple years. Let them have it and let Texas not! Let Massachusetts have government social security, welfare, etc. and Texas not! (No, I don't live in Texas, but it's a largely populated conservative state.) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 22:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Um, thats what happens now. I pay mine and you pay yours. So, wheres the problem? Oh ya, there are those that cant or choose not to. So now we want to force them to? And I thought this country was founded on freedom? The key is those that can't. I see it as a humanitarian cause to provide essential human-welfare services for those who are, through no fault of their own, unable to attain them otherwise. You're welcome to disagree; I genuinely don't understand the logic there, but to each his own. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
And I, for one, are looking forward to melamine in all my future Chinese made prescription drugs. Mmmm Can't get enough of that melamine. Joke, by the way. Maybe not a pretty one, though. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: Our profit is what drives the medical research and inspiration to make something better. Actually, most medical RD is funded by the government. Further, even many of the corporate RD programs depend on government funding. The greatest profit based economy? The USA, and we're doing quite well. The greatest government based economy? We haven't seen them in 18 years. You may want to check your facts. Unfortunately, China is looking much better financially than we are. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
If Cuba is so good, why do they rank below the US? Oh - I forgot - that same WHO survey that called us 37th is hopelessly flawed in the first place. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders ves: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
True but I see the personal attacks starting to creep in and that's not good. We are all basically friends and everyone knows that politics and religion can tear that apart. I'd do anything for each and every one of you regardless and just because a person believes one way and not yours doesn't make then an all around bad guy. Love thy neighbor regardless, it makes for an easier life. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cliff LeBoeuf Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance And I was just headed back to my desk to commend the individuals that have been participating in this discussion on how well they have stayed away from personal attacks on such a polarizing issue that we are all faced with today. Perhaps not directly related to WISPA, most definitely related indirectly. I, for one, gained some insight reading... Cliff LeBoeuf 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 10:38:26 -0800 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance IMO, this thread is getting pretty far off track and is wasting both time and WISPA resources. I respectfully request that everyone please consider the value in getting back to work and releasing this list for more productive WISP-focused usage. jack RickG wrote: Well, this discussion is about what is coming , not what we have but to make you happy - stop Medicare, Social Security, and shut down the VA hospitals! VA patients would be much better served in the private sector with much less waste. Medicare Social Security: The biggest pyramid scheme in history. Let me keep invest in my retirement for myself. Sheesh! Mankind made it without those programs before they existed why not now? -RickG On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell o...@essex1.com mailto:o...@essex1.com wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
No, I haven't. I'll check into that one, thanks! And agree, this all needs to stop. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Love the sentiment and agree to it contents Robert...though really none of this belongs on the list any longer. BTW, have you read Taleb's The Black Swan? He is my new favorite philoshopher. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:56 AM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No one should be offended by the truth. The truth, in itself, in incapable of being offensive it is only the receiver of the truth who makes it so. Sorry, part time philosopher here. That and a lot of drugs in college. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:10 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Being in South Florida, a lot of Folks get offended with anything to do with Cuba... How about a compromise Mexico any one ? ..Take a look at John Stewart's report http://www.thedailyshow.com/ Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:52 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Wow...speechless. I suggest you visit Cuba for all your health care needs. You won't and you know it. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:22 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Actually, most of the advancement now is coming from other countries. We're behind but since we live in it, we can't smell it. We rank near number 37 in health care, that certainly is not being a leader. Even our friend, Cuba ranks higher than we do. Shameful for a country as well off as we are. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Bowers Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance With no profit we would have no advancement. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'Tom Sharples' tsharp...@qorvus.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
Oh, thanks! I put up a bunch of those el cheapo 5.8 pac grids this summer. Now I have all this to look forward to. Sigh :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too. Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
Not just the icing. In the last month I have replaced 2 PW 5.8 grids (29db) with 2' dishes. When the grids were installed we got signals of around -72. When we took them down, we were getting -80. The dishes are getting -69. This was 2 links, changing just one end. We had a similar problem last January. Best I can figure is the feedhorn gets water in it somehow over time. Robert West wrote: Oh, thanks! I put up a bunch of those el cheapo 5.8 pac grids this summer. Now I have all this to look forward to. Sigh :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too. Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fixing buried cable
I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Those other countries that have better health outcomes and a longer life expectancy have taken profit out of healthcare. Further, their doctors are smart and spent a lot of time and money going to medical as well. Most did it for the same reasons as doctors here. And many get paid well like you would expect a doctor to. Of course, they don't have to deal with insurance companies or have huge staffs of people try to collect on fees. -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 3:30 PM, ccrum wrote: Take the profit out of health care and the quality will go with it. Would you do your job for what the gov will pay? Maybe you haven't noticed, but it takes a smart person and a whole lot of hard work to get into and get through medical school in the US. If there is no incentive above helping my fellow man, then you will see a mass exodus of the best people in the field. I know several doctors (specialists too) who are already looking at plan B in case of a government takeover of the health care sytem. Cameron Robert West wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health care? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: The free market really does work. We use it daily in our business... Now imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that, don't we? There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have better access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the free market has failed miserably. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Blake Bowers wrote: If Cuba is so good, why do they rank below the US? Mostly likely because they are such a poor country and can't spend much money on healthcare. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
Probably so. The pac feed horn is fairly flimsy. I'm always afraid to put too much force on them due to the plastic seam along the side looking like it's not exactly sealed much. I always imagine the thing coming apart in my hand whenever I put the small metal deflector on the end. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids Not just the icing. In the last month I have replaced 2 PW 5.8 grids (29db) with 2' dishes. When the grids were installed we got signals of around -72. When we took them down, we were getting -80. The dishes are getting -69. This was 2 links, changing just one end. We had a similar problem last January. Best I can figure is the feedhorn gets water in it somehow over time. Robert West wrote: Oh, thanks! I put up a bunch of those el cheapo 5.8 pac grids this summer. Now I have all this to look forward to. Sigh :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too. Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
You can't have it both ways. The survey (which is flawed, but it was brought up) says that Cuba rates below the US. Did you read how the numbers were come up with? Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Blake Bowers wrote: If Cuba is so good, why do they rank below the US? Mostly likely because they are such a poor country and can't spend much money on healthcare. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
Looks good but did you check that availability? 12 weeks? Yikes!!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
Tape around the splice, mastic around the tape then 3 more layers of tape. But I would waitfor a nice dry day so there is no moisture to deal with. Just like a transmission line connector Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:19:17 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
The 5.8's have a metal horn, not plastic. The 2.4's are plastic. Phil On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Probably so. The pac feed horn is fairly flimsy. I'm always afraid to put too much force on them due to the plastic seam along the side looking like it's not exactly sealed much. I always imagine the thing coming apart in my hand whenever I put the small metal deflector on the end. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids Not just the icing. In the last month I have replaced 2 PW 5.8 grids (29db) with 2' dishes. When the grids were installed we got signals of around -72. When we took them down, we were getting -80. The dishes are getting -69. This was 2 links, changing just one end. We had a similar problem last January. Best I can figure is the feedhorn gets water in it somehow over time. Robert West wrote: Oh, thanks! I put up a bunch of those el cheapo 5.8 pac grids this summer. Now I have all this to look forward to. Sigh :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too. Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FW: Get connected with AVP's Universal Panel
These are cool! From: AVP Mfg. Supply Inc. [mailto:avp_mfg.__supply_...@mail.vresp.com] Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:52 AM To: jrichardson@gmail.com Subject: Get connected with AVP's Universal Panel Click to view this email in a browserhttp://hosted.verticalresponse.com/424265/daaf3b79d3/1553500691/9fc089b660/ [http://img.pcdn.vresp.com/media/3/8/2/382783eb21/daaf3b79d3/205b633aa2/library/Nov25'09header-English.gif] These AVP Universal Bulkhead insulating phenolic panels are available in 1, 2 and 3RU with 1x12, 1x16, 2x12 and 2x16 positions, for all your broadcast and multimedia needs, and include a cable bar for effective cable management. AVP MFG. Supply Inc. Voice: + 1(519) 740-7966 • Corporate Offices www.jackfields.comhttp://cts.vresp.com/c/?AVPMfg.SupplyInc./daaf3b79d3/9fc089b660/b5ee12f1c9 Forward this email to a friendhttp://oi.vresp.com/f2af/v4/send_to_friend.html?ch=daaf3b79d3lid=1553500691ldh=9fc089b660 AVP Universal Bulkhead Panel System The Universal Bulkhead Panel System from AVP can be designed custom configured from our extensive selection of over 70 audio, video, data/network fiber optic Connector Modules. They are easily configured, presenting countless possibilities for a wide variety of applications. Combined with our outstanding AVP product warranty and the best turnaround times in the industry, the AVP Universal Bulkhead Panel System should be an essential part of your next design/build! AVP, approaching 25 years of jackfield design and engineering excellence. [http://img.pcdn.vresp.com/media/3/8/2/382783eb21/daaf3b79d3/205b633aa2/library/AVPfooter-650px.gif] If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with Unsubscribe in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribehttp://cts.vresp.com/u?daaf3b79d3/9fc089b660/mlpftw AVP Mfg. Supply Inc. 2288-B7 Dumfries Rd. RR#2 Cambridge, ON CANADA N1R5S3 Readhttp://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html the VerticalResponse marketing policy. [http://img.pcdn.vresp.com/pwrby_vr_logo_120.gif]http://www.verticalresponse.com/landing/?mm/daaf3b79d3 [http://cts.vresp.com/o.gif?daaf3b79d3/9fc089b660/mlpftw] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
Oh sorry I didn't realize the lack of units. They work very well - I ordered several and store them for myself. I have had each and every last tape job I'm aware of go bad. Maybe we're all doing something wrong, I don't know. I've used all kinds of combinations of things including 3M electrical tape, plastic wrap and coax seal. Coax seal seals very well but the wires came loose - I was very unhappy. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:19 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Tape around the splice, mastic around the tape then 3 more layers of tape. But I would waitfor a nice dry day so there is no moisture to deal with. Just like a transmission line connector Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:19:17 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
*Estimated Ship Date* 54 12/11/2009 They're getting 54 of them in 3 days FYI. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Oh sorry I didn't realize the lack of units. They work very well - I ordered several and store them for myself. I have had each and every last tape job I'm aware of go bad. Maybe we're all doing something wrong, I don't know. I've used all kinds of combinations of things including 3M electrical tape, plastic wrap and coax seal. Coax seal seals very well but the wires came loose - I was very unhappy. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:19 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Tape around the splice, mastic around the tape then 3 more layers of tape. But I would waitfor a nice dry day so there is no moisture to deal with. Just like a transmission line connector Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:19:17 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
All of the 5.8's I put up are plastic on the end. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Phil Curnutt Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids The 5.8's have a metal horn, not plastic. The 2.4's are plastic. Phil On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Probably so. The pac feed horn is fairly flimsy. I'm always afraid to put too much force on them due to the plastic seam along the side looking like it's not exactly sealed much. I always imagine the thing coming apart in my hand whenever I put the small metal deflector on the end. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids Not just the icing. In the last month I have replaced 2 PW 5.8 grids (29db) with 2' dishes. When the grids were installed we got signals of around -72. When we took them down, we were getting -80. The dishes are getting -69. This was 2 links, changing just one end. We had a similar problem last January. Best I can figure is the feedhorn gets water in it somehow over time. Robert West wrote: Oh, thanks! I put up a bunch of those el cheapo 5.8 pac grids this summer. Now I have all this to look forward to. Sigh :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too. Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900. Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is. We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8. On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
Scotch Lock each pair together. Wrap two pairs around the main wire in one direction, and two in the other direction. Cover with a RG-11 coax splice boot. It's filled with non-conductive gel. Scott Reed wrote: I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
I may have one of those in the parts box. Hadn't thought of it. Don't think I will order one for this customer, though. Lead time is 12 weeks. Josh Luthman wrote: Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
They ordered some already. 54 units will show up in 3 days. You can probably order them now to see if 54 were preordered or not. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.netwrote: I may have one of those in the parts box. Hadn't thought of it. Don't think I will order one for this customer, though. Lead time is 12 weeks. Josh Luthman wrote: Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Here is something actually about Wireless- The Dude
I'm trying to implement The Dude as a method of monitoring inside a network's firewall/router (actually a hot spot portal) and have it working OK. It was a bear to get it figured out how get it to to use a remote probe or whatever they call another instance of Dude running on a box inside. Problem is when I try to monitor a second network, also with its own probe inside its portal. How do you tell the main Dude client to use 2 or more remote probes all the time and show them all on the same map? I plan to ask this on the MT list too, but I feel there are some very knowledgeable folks here. Ralph Brightlan.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
If you are running more than 6-7mbits then use some other splice or replace the whole cable. If you are running less than this, then most any splice will work. :) ryan On Dec 8, 2009, at 2:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
We have those. Use them all the time but I would not bury these. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:19:26 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Looks good but did you check that availability? 12 weeks? Yikes!!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Right. Just like the people that want to go somewhere in life with private schools, the people that want to live will have to pay extra for private insurance. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Andy Trimmell atrimm...@precisionds.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:55 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance [Having private options in a public world means you're paying for your healthcare twice. It's like being forced to have Qwest DSL, but electing to have FiOS instead. You're paying for 2 Internet services, one great and the other not.] Kinda like when I was home schooled as a kid and my parents had to pay school taxes for public school? Only makes sense that we'd again pay twice for another public option. Good analogy. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Exactly. Bernie Madoff went to jail because of his Ponzi scheme, why didn't FDR for social security? Well, other than the obvious of him dieing. Again, if Maryland wants to do social security, great. Leave it out of Kansas. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Well, this discussion is about what is coming , not what we have but to make you happy - stop Medicare, Social Security, and shut down the VA hospitals! VA patients would be much better served in the private sector with much less waste. Medicare Social Security: The biggest pyramid scheme in history. Let me keep invest in my retirement for myself. Sheesh! Mankind made it without those programs before they existed why not now? -RickG On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell o...@essex1.com wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only one left. Owen Harrell -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 18:06, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run in a free market. It's failure is exactly due to this. Even after all the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have access to health
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Blake Bowers wrote: You can't have it both ways. The survey (which is flawed, but it was brought up) says that Cuba rates below the US. Did you read how the numbers were come up with? I guess I don't understand how I am expecting it both ways. You asked why Cuba is ranked lower and I answered. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba. People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away. When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on Radio Moscow they had the farm report segment telling about the great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911? Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood hospital but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote: Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:16 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Exactly. Bernie Madoff went to jail because of his Ponzi scheme, why didn't FDR for social security? Well, other than the obvious of him dieing. Maybe you don't realize that Madoff fraudulently mislead investors whereas social security is a government mandate. Of course, this has been refuted by many others; see... http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/ponzi.htm http://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2009/07/21/is-social-security-a-giant-ponzi-scheme.aspx http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/12/is_social_secur.html http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/economy/social.security.fortune/index.htm I challenge you to take a supportable position that can actually move the healthcare debate forward. Again, I believe it is people like you that keep legitimate debate from occurring. Shame on you. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
And I guess because you know someone from Canada/Britain/France/Spain/ etc that swears the healthcare is worse then they make it out to be and that the US is where everyone with money goes then it must be true. Let's all just ignore study after study that shows every single first world country has it better than the US. Sure, I'll believe Cuba is hiding the real story. What about the other 30+ countries that have better healthcare at a lower GDP cost? Are they lying too? -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba. People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away. When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on Radio Moscow they had the farm report segment telling about the great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911? Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood hospital but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote: Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous,
Re: [WISPA] WISPA Files USF Comments with FCC
Jack and all, Very nice job on this filing. I know you were under tremendous pressure to learn about the issues at hand and still meet the filing deadline. At least now the WISP industry had been heard and offered some possible solutions. It was very important to go on record with some ideas. Thank You, Brian Webster On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Yesterday WISPA filed Comments with the FCC regarding how the Universal Service Fund (USF) should be changed so that it is no longer abused by wireline and mobile broadband carriers and how the USF should instead be used to facilitate broadband (including fixed wireless) access. The Comments, as filed, are attached. Steve Coran and Dave Kaufman of Rini/Coran did a excellent job of helping to analyze the issues and to write WISPA's Comments. We also received help from WISPA FCC Committee Members Brian Webster, Marlon Schafer and Rusty Irvin. I'd like to thank each of these individuals for their assistance. It is my hope that the FCC National Broadband Plan will make note of our Comments and recommend to Congress that the regulatory and financial landscapes be changed to become more favorable for WISPs and more supportive of providing broadband (excluding mobile broadband) to the 23 million homes in the U.S. that do not have access to real broadband today. Respectfully Submitted, Jack Unger WISPA FCC Committee Chair -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Technical Writing - Editing - Training Serving the Wireless - Telecom - Networking Communities Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
I revise that. Use them and wrap them with tape and mastic. :-) And we use them on Dragonwave and Ceragon installs (100 Mb+) without issue. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: lakel...@gbcx.net Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 00:16:03 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable We have those. Use them all the time but I would not bury these. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:19:26 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Looks good but did you check that availability? 12 weeks? Yikes!!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable
They make underground telephone splice blocks that are like a super sized scotch lock plastic case filled with a big blob of white goey snot. The idea is you make your splice however you need to then wad the whole thing in to the blob of snot, snap the cover closed and the gel flows around the splice to weatherproof it for underground use. Found these: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/%28zbdvzl2zxnoq12z42hyeg545%29/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=3239720 http://www.absoluteautomation.com/wire/ctcjoslyn/ http://www.shop3m.com/3m-scotchcast-inline-resin-splice-kit.html Thank You, Brian Webster On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: We have those. Use them all the time but I would not bury these. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:19:26 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Looks good but did you check that availability? 12 weeks? Yikes!!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ah! Took me an hour to find this (everyone wanting to chat and text and call and ask and...) http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=p08Uhw9w2FyOGS2yhLmq6g%3d%3d Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I think anything you do, as long as the conductors are connected and protected from the weather will be fine. Just keep as many twists in the wire as you can. I've made some pretty nasty splices in the past and they all worked perfectly. I just have a thing about looking professional and not like duct tape and twine. But that stuff works too! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable Ugly isn't an issue as the cable is so short I want dig up a foot of it, re-splice it and bury the splice. Robert West wrote: I've used those 3-m or scotch crimp button connectors before, got a box of them still in the van. It's really ugly though and you have to make sure you keep as many twists in the wire as you can. But then you still have to seal it all and RTV would be my choice. If I had to, and if I had any slack, stick the splice down a short tube of maybe PVC and pump it full of silicone. Still an ugly way to go. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:19 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Fixing buried cable I have a customer that cut the cat 5 right at the ground in September. I put a jack at the ground and a plug on the remaining cable and wrapped it up as well as I could, knowing I would be back. Sure enough, today I went back to re-fix it in the sleet. What fun. I think it is better because I used a cat5 splice device and filled it with RTV. Anyone have a way to fix a cable that is underground? I would rather not run a new cable and make her bury another one if there is another way. -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
What? FDR is dead??? I thought him and Stalin went halfs on a condo in Malta Maybe I have my history mixed up. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Exactly. Bernie Madoff went to jail because of his Ponzi scheme, why didn't FDR for social security? Well, other than the obvious of him dieing. Again, if Maryland wants to do social security, great. Leave it out of Kansas. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Well, this discussion is about what is coming , not what we have but to make you happy - stop Medicare, Social Security, and shut down the VA hospitals! VA patients would be much better served in the private sector with much less waste. Medicare Social Security: The biggest pyramid scheme in history. Let me keep invest in my retirement for myself. Sheesh! Mankind made it without those programs before they existed why not now? -RickG On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell o...@essex1.com wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free market. Most of you claim to be Christians, but you do not really believe what you preach. A true Christian always wants to help those that are less fortunate than yourself. Well I believe that includes health care. Or does it mean you can pick and choose who should be helped and who shouldn't. Yes, I have had insurance almost my whole life. Some was paid for by my employer, some has been paid for by myself. What I have seen is premiums go up every year. However, the health of this nation ranks in the 30's among other nations. We live 3-7 years less than countries with health care. Does that mean National Health Care will be perfect? I do not think so. That would be like me asking you if your Wireless was up 100% of the time. You would have to either say no, or lie to me. I do not believe there is such a thing as perfect, but if you never try to achieve perfection, you sure as hell will never come close to reaching it. I also notice how everyone seems to know how the government will run Health Care and what is being done wrong. How do you know these things when there is not even a completed bill in the Senate yet? Last I knew, they were still debating what should and what shouldn't be a part of it. Some say we should throw the bill in the Senate away, and start over. Maybe they should have been there when it started. These are the congressmen you should be pissed at. They elected not to participate in the beginning, and now want to cry foul and ask to start over. These are just my two cents on the subject, and because you are still in America, you have the right to disagree, not read this at all and delete it, or respond. Well, I guess if you have read the last line, you now only have two choices left, hurry and decide before there is only one left. Owen Harrell -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Yup, in the past century, America stopped being the land of opportunity and became the land of guarantees. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Oh boy, here we go. Even more important is water and food. How about electricity, transportation, entertainment etc. etc. etc. NOTHING is a basic human right past opportunity. The CHANCE to make our own direction is all that God has given us. marlon - Original Message - From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:50 PM
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I did, they said it was too darn cold and I agreed. But the beer was good. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Never heard a complaint in Canada. Can we keep this #WISPA and not #Insurance please? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Matt Liotta mlio...@r337.com wrote: And I guess because you know someone from Canada/Britain/France/Spain/ etc that swears the healthcare is worse then they make it out to be and that the US is where everyone with money goes then it must be true. Let's all just ignore study after study that shows every single first world country has it better than the US. Sure, I'll believe Cuba is hiding the real story. What about the other 30+ countries that have better healthcare at a lower GDP cost? Are they lying too? -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba. People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away. When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on Radio Moscow they had the farm report segment telling about the great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911? Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood hospital but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote: Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List
[WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Matt, Chill, you're taking a really harsh tone. I'm talking about Cuba because I know about that. I have many Latino friends. I speak Spanish. I know Cubans and I know a lot of people who have been to Cuba. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not refuting all those other countries statistics. I thought you wanted debate of the facts. Or do you just want us to sit at your feet and listen? Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: And I guess because you know someone from Canada/Britain/France/Spain/ etc that swears the healthcare is worse then they make it out to be and that the US is where everyone with money goes then it must be true. Let's all just ignore study after study that shows every single first world country has it better than the US. Sure, I'll believe Cuba is hiding the real story. What about the other 30+ countries that have better healthcare at a lower GDP cost? Are they lying too? -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba. People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away. When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on Radio Moscow they had the farm report segment telling about the great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911? Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood hospital but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote: Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:56 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Matt, Chill, you're taking a really harsh tone. I'm talking about Cuba because I know about that. I have many Latino friends. I speak Spanish. I know Cubans and I know a lot of people who have been to Cuba. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not refuting all those other countries statistics. I thought you wanted debate of the facts. Or do you just want us to sit at your feet and listen? I do want to debate the facts, but you are responding with anecdotes. This is a standard straw-man used throughout the healthcare debate. I know person X from country Y that says this or had such and such happen to them. Such a statement can be true, but it is meaningless in the context of the debate. Such a situation needs to be statistically significant to matter. All systems have their flaws as no one believes a perfect system exists. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rocket range
Depends on what the customer will be using. NanoM? BulletM? What kind of antenna? As a rule, should be fine. Rocket M - Nano M should work at that range decent. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: We want to put up an M Rocket in 5gig frequency range and have four customers between 6-8 miles. Will our 17dbi 120 degree antenna reach them? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Matt, Please reread what I said. I wasn't commenting on the whole healthcare debate. I was talking about Cuba. CUBA CUBA CUBA. Do you get it now? Just CUBA. Reread the original post and get off your high horse. Have you noticed everyone else stopped replying to you. Everyone else, sorry, that's my last post on this topic no matter what Matt says next. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:56 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Matt, Chill, you're taking a really harsh tone. I'm talking about Cuba because I know about that. I have many Latino friends. I speak Spanish. I know Cubans and I know a lot of people who have been to Cuba. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not refuting all those other countries statistics. I thought you wanted debate of the facts. Or do you just want us to sit at your feet and listen? I do want to debate the facts, but you are responding with anecdotes. This is a standard straw-man used throughout the healthcare debate. I know person X from country Y that says this or had such and such happen to them. Such a statement can be true, but it is meaningless in the context of the debate. Such a situation needs to be statistically significant to matter. All systems have their flaws as no one believes a perfect system exists. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
As I stated before... Medicare reimburses such low amounts, that ever doctor, hospital, clinic, lab, etc, that accepts it does so at a loss. Not just no profit but at a loss.Not only that, but Medicare has the highest level of financial fraud, period. It's very efficient... at giving away money for nothing, and yet, at the same time, has created the single largest pick the pocket of someone else program to exist. -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:24 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Source please? http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq (The overhead numbers come from Won't this be just another bureaucracy?) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
LOL... I was being lectured by some do-gooder online for my rotten morality, and my answer to him was... So, I have invested my entire life savings, toiled for 4 years without a paycheck to put all the cash back into the business, and have worked more hours than can ever be accounted for. My phone is on 24/7, people feel free to call me from 5 AM to midnight, and expect me to respond, even if it's a holiday weekend.Nobody paid insurance for me, I get no vacation, I have no right to unemployment should I go broke, but yet I face liability and lawsuits if someone finds themselves inconvenienced. I have no right to a paycheck, compensation, health care, nor ANYTHING most employers pay to employees... But yet, after I've invested my whole life, sacrificed everything from Christmas dinners to family vacations to marital happiness (should hear the wife when I have to work and she had other ideas!), but should some person with dubious skills, no experience, possibly no loyalty to me or my business come to me and I see fit to take a chance on trading money for his time, I have a moral obligation to give him things I don't have myself?I OWE him not laying him off, unlimited expenditures for training, health care insurance, paid time off for vacations and assorted other benefits? The twit in question then berated me for being a selfish capitalist. I'm supposed to do this without ever a thought to my own benefit, just do it for everyone else. At that point, I've given up on the entitlement crowd. As far as I am concerned, anyone who thinks ANY need is a right to demand someone else provide is deficient, both in morality and in decency.I have a right to just one thing in this world - to breath.Everything else is either earned, or given out of generosity.I am NOT your slave, you have no right whatsoever to ANYTHING I do, no matter how fancy your argument about how you want to live without stress or worry at the expense of others. And I have no right to anything of yours, either. -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:27 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance When you own a business, you take a huge risk using a lot of blood, sweat, tears, time away from the family, worrying about the baby. Then you have to fight for it because all they want to do is take it away. It changes your perspective on life and the order of things. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I dunno about him, but I can tell you that over the last 5.5 years I've been in business, I have seen the last of the rice, beans, flour, bread, milk vanish and the bank account be just as empty as the fridge and pantry a good many times. And, even when facing that kind of need at home, I've forgiven people's arrears accounts because they had no job or income and simply could not pay, and kept them in service so they could continue to job search. Maybe, unlike David's belief, generosity is best done personally, not the fake kind doled out by uncaring lifetime agency hacks... -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance Those that cant are already covered by the generosity of the US taxpayer. That goes back to my original question: Who does not have access? As far as compassion, I appreciate yours. I've had some very rough times myself over the years. If/when I get into another rough time, I need to count on you to pay for my health care. Can I give you call? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Think IRS compassion. I've got a personal debt to my state, and you have no idea how incredibly nasty they are. The guy actually told me wife it would be better if she were also unemployed, so as to assure that no additional tax debt might be incurred. Now THAT is the kind of health care agency we need. -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:51 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 22:46, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Think of the stereotypical government agency. Driver's license office. Last time I was there, I was in and out in about ten minutes. Granted, that was several years ago; the last few transactions I had with them were online. Road department. Yup, there's roads. They work just fine for driving on. Last time it snowed, they were even more-or-less clear by the time I was out driving on 'em. VA hospital. I've no experience with this. Our education system is almost 100% government funded and controlled (ask your local school board just how much say they really have) and it's supposedly among the worst in the industrialized world. I think I turned out okay, though I imagine at this point some of you disagree :v Do you REALLY think that the government will finally, somehow, magically start doing a good job with health care? Honestly? How would it be any different than any other government agency? I have no problem with any of these examples. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
160MHz channels? What in the heck frequency are they looking muddy up THIS time??? Just think of an apartment building with 1/3 of the residents running 160MHz channels on their routers and yet they only have 10mbps internet and the channels are all set on Auto along with everything else. HAHAHA! My nightmare is coming true! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Marlon... Exactly. A number of years ago, I made acquaintance of nice guy who is Norwegian... A programmer, open source aficionado. One day we got talking about our living - you know, home, car, food, etc.I mentioned something about losing my home a few years back due to unemployment. He just lost it. He claimed that if he would be homeless or go hungry if he didn't stay employed, the stress would kill him, and he would literally be so unnerved he could not focus and work. And they wonder why Americans are so danged tough, when it comes down to it. Although, from reading this list, it seems some people want it pretty danged soft. We as imperfect humans ARE motivated to improve our lot in life.Harness that motive and jump back. -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I've always thought this was really pretty easy. Dave, just pick ONE family and pay their insurance for them! It's well within your right to do so. And it helps one other family afford health care. I give a lot of food away. I give internet away. I let others us my land for free. But *I* get to pick who I do that for. That's what freedom is. If someone else were to tell me who to feed, who to let on my property, who to give my internet to, I've not lost me freedom. If I loose my freedom what do I have left to work for? To fight for? To die for? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Rocket range
How high are you installing those? I'm installing some right now but have yet to fire them up. Hoping to get a usable signal up to 10 miles. We'll see! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rocket range Depends on what the customer will be using. NanoM? BulletM? What kind of antenna? As a rule, should be fine. Rocket M - Nano M should work at that range decent. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: We want to put up an M Rocket in 5gig frequency range and have four customers between 6-8 miles. Will our 17dbi 120 degree antenna reach them? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
60GHz... plenty of spectrum... and it won't propagate that far. But no mention of that in the article... I know the IEEE is working on that as a standard... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 160MHz channels? What in the heck frequency are they looking muddy up THIS time??? Just think of an apartment building with 1/3 of the residents running 160MHz channels on their routers and yet they only have 10mbps internet and the channels are all set on Auto along with everything else. HAHAHA! My nightmare is coming true! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
Ah! Well why in the heck would they leave out something that important? Here I was thinking 5.8wasgoing bye bye in one quick hurry! They can have it then. Still a waste unless they are an office sharing a server or have home server with their pirate bay movies, music and viruses to stream to everyone in the house. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 60GHz... plenty of spectrum... and it won't propagate that far. But no mention of that in the article... I know the IEEE is working on that as a standard... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 160MHz channels? What in the heck frequency are they looking muddy up THIS time??? Just think of an apartment building with 1/3 of the residents running 160MHz channels on their routers and yet they only have 10mbps internet and the channels are all set on Auto along with everything else. HAHAHA! My nightmare is coming true! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] EEI 100' Monopole Cell Tower
I have a trylon section 1 2 that I don't need. Anyone need or want I will part with them cheap. /Eje --Original Message-- From: Stuart Pierce Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: wireless@wispa.org ReplyTo: spie...@avolve.net ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] EEI 100' Monopole Cell Tower Sent: Dec 8, 2009 21:18 I've come across a good deal on a tower if anyone wants information on it, $15K for this and never erected. I'm looking for Trylon 96'er towers and of course who has the least expensive ones and the closer the better for shipping. spie...@avolve.net Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] EEI 100' Monopole Cell Tower
Welcome back to the land of the frozen! How was the trip? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:22 PM To: spie...@avolve.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] EEI 100' Monopole Cell Tower I have a trylon section 1 2 that I don't need. Anyone need or want I will part with them cheap. /Eje --Original Message-- From: Stuart Pierce Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: wireless@wispa.org ReplyTo: spie...@avolve.net ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] EEI 100' Monopole Cell Tower Sent: Dec 8, 2009 21:18 I've come across a good deal on a tower if anyone wants information on it, $15K for this and never erected. I'm looking for Trylon 96'er towers and of course who has the least expensive ones and the closer the better for shipping. spie...@avolve.net Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
Depends how you view waste. If you're clueless and you see 100 meg router or 54 meg router which are you going to choose? You want fast! That other one is almost twice the speed. If they can make it at the same cost and just charge more, manufacturers will love it. Look at N. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Ah! Well why in the heck would they leave out something that important? Here I was thinking 5.8wasgoing bye bye in one quick hurry! They can have it then. Still a waste unless they are an office sharing a server or have home server with their pirate bay movies, music and viruses to stream to everyone in the house. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 60GHz... plenty of spectrum... and it won't propagate that far. But no mention of that in the article... I know the IEEE is working on that as a standard... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 160MHz channels? What in the heck frequency are they looking muddy up THIS time??? Just think of an apartment building with 1/3 of the residents running 160MHz channels on their routers and yet they only have 10mbps internet and the channels are all set on Auto along with everything else. HAHAHA! My nightmare is coming true! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
I like! Many of my customers have wireless routers in their homes/offices. Once the devices become cheap and readily available it will be a godsend. At 09:18 PM 12/8/2009, you wrote: Ah! Well why in the heck would they leave out something that important? Here I was thinking 5.8wasgoing bye bye in one quick hurry! They can have it then. Still a waste unless they are an office sharing a server or have home server with their pirate bay movies, music and viruses to stream to everyone in the house. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 60GHz... plenty of spectrum... and it won't propagate that far. But no mention of that in the article... I know the IEEE is working on that as a standard... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 160MHz channels? What in the heck frequency are they looking muddy up THIS time??? Just think of an apartment building with 1/3 of the residents running 160MHz channels on their routers and yet they only have 10mbps internet and the channels are all set on Auto along with everything else. HAHAHA! My nightmare is coming true! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Not Health Care - was Insurance....
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/12/is_social_secur.html You gotta love the readers posts to the article! I dont know about ponzi but its a pyramid and defianatly ascheme. For me, I hang on to the quotes of our founding fathers and the truly gifted leaders that we now lack: Declaration of Independence: But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. *** James Madison: I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. *** Thomas Jefferson: We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our selection between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat in our drink, in our necessities and comforts, in our labors and in our amusements, for our callings and our creeds...our people.. must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live.. We have not time to think, no means of calling the mis-managers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow suffers. Our landholders, too...retaining indeed the title and stewardship of estates called theirs, but held really in trust for the treasury, must...be contented with penury, obscurity and exile.. private fortunes are destroyed by public as well as by private extravagance. This is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of society is reduced to mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering... And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicity. We are all doubtless bound to contribute a certain portion of our income to the support of charitable and other useful public institutions. But it is a part of our duty also to apply our contributions in the most effectual way we can to secure this object. The question then is whether this will not be better done by each of us appropriating our whole contribution to the institutions within our reach, under our own eye, and over which we can exercise some useful control? Or would it be better that each should divide the sum he can spare among all the institutions of his State or the United States? Reason and the interest of these institutions themselves, certainly decide in favor of the former practice. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. *** Sir Winston Churchill: We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. *** Grover Cleveland: When more of the people's sustenance is exacted through the form of taxation than is necessary to meet the just obligations of government, such exaction becomes ruthless extortion and a violation of the fundamental principles of a free government. *** Calvin Coolidge: The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to the public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. The wise and correct course to follow in taxation is not to destroy those who have already secured success, but to create conditions under which everyone will have a better chance to be successful. No matter what anyone may say about making the rich and the corporations pay taxes, in the end they come out of the people who toil. *** Benjamin Franklin: When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. ... as all history informs us, there has been in every State Kingdom a constant kind of warfare between the governing governed: the one striving to obtain more for its support, and the other to pay less. And this has alone occasioned great convulsions, actual civil wars, ending either in dethroning of the Princes, or enslaving of the people. Generally indeed the ruling power carries its point, the
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
I'm sure you're a nice guy... But you're trying to convince a lot of people who know better by long years of experience, that life would be beautiful and all will be fine, if we just give Congress a few more trillion dollars a year of our hard earned money. Oh, and defining being moral and caring as giving Congress more money is an insult to people who know better. -- From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:17 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance I'm trying to advocate a position I believe will provide affordable (free) health care for everyone, which is a net gain for society. Collectively, we all would pay less, and most of us as individuals would pay less, for a good single-payer system. Heck, it works for every other civilized country on the planet, it just might work here too. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012
I view waste as in clueless people grabbing fast as you say. I love having to explain to customers who want a newer computer because their internet is so slow. HA! Unless they are riddled with spyware and viruses, no new computer is gonna make the internet faster unless you're replacing one from 1997. H. 100mb nic vs. 1mb internet. Gotta love marketing! I always wondered why some slick idiot didn't come out with a 512k dial-up modem. Sure, it's useless after 53k but hey, people would've bought it by the thousands! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 Depends how you view waste. If you're clueless and you see 100 meg router or 54 meg router which are you going to choose? You want fast! That other one is almost twice the speed. If they can make it at the same cost and just charge more, manufacturers will love it. Look at N. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Ah! Well why in the heck would they leave out something that important? Here I was thinking 5.8wasgoing bye bye in one quick hurry! They can have it then. Still a waste unless they are an office sharing a server or have home server with their pirate bay movies, music and viruses to stream to everyone in the house. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 60GHz... plenty of spectrum... and it won't propagate that far. But no mention of that in the article... I know the IEEE is working on that as a standard... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 160MHz channels? What in the heck frequency are they looking muddy up THIS time??? Just think of an apartment building with 1/3 of the residents running 160MHz channels on their routers and yet they only have 10mbps internet and the channels are all set on Auto along with everything else. HAHAHA! My nightmare is coming true! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Philip Dorr Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi to top 1 GB/s by 2012 The IEEE has recently begun the first steps of voting on a major improvement to Wi-Fi standards due in two years. The 802.11ac standard should upgrade 802.11a to use 80MHz or even 160MHz channels that provide much more bandwidth than today. Just reading the first couple of sentences it looks like it will make a ton of illegal links and be a waste of RF spectrum. On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/07/80211ac.process.underway/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
