Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti ready for prime time?
We've been using the pacw wideband dual pole 2' and 3' solid dishes. On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 01:13:26AM -0500, Scott Carullo wrote: What antenna of choice are you using for rockets jp? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti ready for prime time? I would suggest trying it on a small project or two first. I've not been satisfied with the normal nanostation gear for urban/suburban use. The rocketm's have been great for ptp backhaul so far, despite some manual tweeking to override their software's distance ack shortcoming. On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:35:00AM -0600, Mike wrote: I was almost ready to pull the trigger on some Ubiquiti equipment for a new project. The scent of low price is alluring. Then I start reading about connectors pulling out, connectors not soldered on properly, and the wrong boot code on boards. Is it too early? Should I wait a bit before I dive in? Has the haste to get product into the distribution stream compromised quality control? Is the low price just too good to be true? I'd be interested in some constructive thoughts and analysis. Thanks mg -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
Not really. Being in Asia and all. We have had this happen to us before. Just have to wait for them to go away. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
You can implement the use of SPF records in your dns/mx settings. This will tell mail servers which use SPF checking (which many do) to only allow mail from your domain name to come from the mail servers / IPs that you specify (in the SPF records) are allowed. Any mail coming from non-allowed IPs are blocked... -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 10:31 -0500, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
You cant do anything to stop blocking them from being forged and sent, but there are things you can do to help notify other ISPs what servers are authorized to send mail for your domain, so that they can use smarter methods to block and allow SPAM. For example, you can use a Sender Policy Framework record in your Domain headers. Some recipient servers have different rules on whether they just drop or return SPAM, dependant on detection method. IF similar methods are already being done, and the messages are being sent back to you after being blocked, and getting flooded with the bounce messages, probably not much can do, other than to set up a temp rule to drop those specific bounce message group. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:31 AM Subject: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
I use MailScanner http://www.mailscanner.info/ . It allows you to put a watermark on all messages leaving your mailserver. If a bounce come in without the watermark , it trashes it . works like a charm for exactly that. Terry - Original Message - From: Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Not really. Being in Asia and all. We have had this happen to us before. Just have to wait for them to go away. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
This assumes that the receiving party drops mail based on SPF. And still, most of the time it will bounce the message saying it failed spam checks or something like that. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Matt Hardy mha...@ligowave.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob You can implement the use of SPF records in your dns/mx settings. This will tell mail servers which use SPF checking (which many do) to only allow mail from your domain name to come from the mail servers / IPs that you specify (in the SPF records) are allowed. Any mail coming from non-allowed IPs are blocked... -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 10:31 -0500, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
You're right, it does require the recipient domain to implement SPF checking, but I think it's better than nothing. It could at least help prevent from having your domain name end up on some auto-populated spam lists like aol, yahoo, etc like he originally said he was having problems with... although usually I've seen that happen with IPs rather than domain names themselves. -Matt On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 11:24 -0500, Nick Olsen wrote: This assumes that the receiving party drops mail based on SPF. And still, most of the time it will bounce the message saying it failed spam checks or something like that. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Matt Hardy mha...@ligowave.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob You can implement the use of SPF records in your dns/mx settings. This will tell mail servers which use SPF checking (which many do) to only allow mail from your domain name to come from the mail servers / IPs that you specify (in the SPF records) are allowed. Any mail coming from non-allowed IPs are blocked... -Matt On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 10:31 -0500, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
The watermark idea sounds like a clever idea, and worthy solution. Only thing, should consider whether you let your mail users send through other providers during travel or secondary locations. (Would also apply to SPF to some extent). If they send legitimate mail from their hotel or Home circuit (if it was originally an Office account/circuit with you, but bring laptop home also), which home provider blocks SMTP excpet for using Access provider's SMTP server, the legitimate sender will no longer get notice when a send was unsuccessful. SMTP Auth is not always a winning solution, when Port 25 gets blocked. So it boils down to... Do you want to set policy to only support mail if sent through your own mail server? Thats a personal decission. But it could also be addressed by how the watermark gets delt with. For example, what if the watermark rule was used, BUT it accepted the first 5 bounces within a define period of time, and then auto blocked all future bounces for a defined period of time? That would be better because it allows getting a few of the bounces for management, but also limits the number of harmful bounces. We use similar techniques with Blacklisting. We let first few through, and then when threshhold is exceeded we temporarilly blacklist sender for like 12 hours. That is very effective in managing SPAM and DDOS. Unforunteately, it is not a good way to prevent poor reputation ratings that rely on other provider's systems that accept and weight to heavilly What is SPAM submissions from their end users. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Terry Hickey thic...@rockies.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob I use MailScanner http://www.mailscanner.info/ . It allows you to put a watermark on all messages leaving your mailserver. If a bounce come in without the watermark , it trashes it . works like a charm for exactly that. Terry - Original Message - From: Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Not really. Being in Asia and all. We have had this happen to us before. Just have to wait for them to go away. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
[WISPA] Wimax gear
We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Wait for q1 release of the Canopy 320, all that and more Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas
Are you registering all of your fixed CPEs? Jerry Richardson wrote: Here is the process: 1. Look up grandfathered stations here: http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650/grandftr.pdf 2. Find the contact by looking up the license via the call sign 3. Contact the station to see if they will grant you a general approval i.e. you can use 3.65GHz but if it causes us interference you need to turn it off/fix it. etc 4. If the Earth Station requests more info, you may need to supply GPS location of the base station and or CPEs, radio type/Tx power, antenna type, gain, elevation, azimuth, etc. Sprint used ComSearch so I had to provide all details. 5. Once you get the Earth Stations to sign off, then apply for your license - it's pretty much automatic. It took about 3 days for me to get approved. 6. Once you have your license, you need to enter your base stations and attach your waivers (which I have not done yet). Hope that helps. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas Jerry I'd like to know how you found the local earth stations in your area? I would like to also know the surrent status of your request as I would like to follow suite here in my area. Thanks. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:16 PM To: motor...@afmug.com motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas I'm filling out the application for a license in a grandfathered zone. During the application proceess, there is a section asking if I am requesting a Waiver of the Commissions' Rules. Does this apply to grandfathered areas or is this something else? I have approval letters from the earth stations in the area. As I understand it, I only need to provide the letters when submitting the sites. Thanks in advance [cid:image001.gif@01CA824D.667F6C80] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 Websitehttp://www.aircloud.com/ Bloghttp://weblog.aircloud.com/ Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/aircloudbband LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Gino, Where can I find detailed info on the product there doesn't seem to be much available in regards to it's routing features. I'm also concerned about the CPE cost/licenses that's what drove us from Canopy before. Regards Michael Baird Wait for q1 release of the Canopy 320, all that and more Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas
I think we will have to. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas Are you registering all of your fixed CPEs? Jerry Richardson wrote: Here is the process: 1. Look up grandfathered stations here: http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650/grandftr.pdf 2. Find the contact by looking up the license via the call sign 3. Contact the station to see if they will grant you a general approval i.e. you can use 3.65GHz but if it causes us interference you need to turn it off/fix it. etc 4. If the Earth Station requests more info, you may need to supply GPS location of the base station and or CPEs, radio type/Tx power, antenna type, gain, elevation, azimuth, etc. Sprint used ComSearch so I had to provide all details. 5. Once you get the Earth Stations to sign off, then apply for your license - it's pretty much automatic. It took about 3 days for me to get approved. 6. Once you have your license, you need to enter your base stations and attach your waivers (which I have not done yet). Hope that helps. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas Jerry I'd like to know how you found the local earth stations in your area? I would like to also know the surrent status of your request as I would like to follow suite here in my area. Thanks. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:16 PM To: motor...@afmug.com motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] 3.65GHz in grandfathered earth station areas I'm filling out the application for a license in a grandfathered zone. During the application proceess, there is a section asking if I am requesting a Waiver of the Commissions' Rules. Does this apply to grandfathered areas or is this something else? I have approval letters from the earth stations in the area. As I understand it, I only need to provide the letters when submitting the sites. Thanks in advance [cid:image001.gif@01CA824D.667F6C80] Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 x2 Websitehttp://www.aircloud.com/ Bloghttp://weblog.aircloud.com/ Twitterhttp://www.twitter.com/aircloudbband LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Are you (Michael) talking about self install or outdoor install? Mike (Hammett) is talking about self installs. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Josh, I tested via a truck, I could take the Alvarion unit and put it on the back seat of the extended cab, and it worked everywhere within a mile radius I drove to. This was an outdoor unit with a 14.5 db panel, strictly speaking I was testing outdoor (I wanted SI's from Alvarion but they aren't available for 3.65 yet). I was supposing that the SI with a multiple antenna array and higher transmit would perform similarily to a radio sitting flat on the seat of a truck, maybe it was a bad supposition. Regards Michael Baird Are you (Michael) talking about self install or outdoor install? Mike (Hammett) is talking about self installs. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
What you are asking for is going to be priced accordingly. If you are looking for low cost 3.65 it's going to be Tranzeo or Ubiquity cards on MT. One interesting combination is that Tranzeo makes CPE's that inter-operate with Redline. We'll wait for CAP320 as screwing with anything lese is a waste of our time and energy. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Gino, Where can I find detailed info on the product there doesn't seem to be much available in regards to it's routing features. I'm also concerned about the CPE cost/licenses that's what drove us from Canopy before. Regards Michael Baird Wait for q1 release of the Canopy 320, all that and more Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Q3 is a better guess I think... Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: Wait for q1 release of the Canopy 320, all that and more Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Good information. Keep in mind customer self installs != radio in truck bed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Josh, I tested via a truck, I could take the Alvarion unit and put it on the back seat of the extended cab, and it worked everywhere within a mile radius I drove to. This was an outdoor unit with a 14.5 db panel, strictly speaking I was testing outdoor (I wanted SI's from Alvarion but they aren't available for 3.65 yet). I was supposing that the SI with a multiple antenna array and higher transmit would perform similarily to a radio sitting flat on the seat of a truck, maybe it was a bad supposition. Regards Michael Baird Are you (Michael) talking about self install or outdoor install? Mike (Hammett) is talking about self installs. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Ouch :-( Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Q3 is a better guess I think... Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: Wait for q1 release of the Canopy 320, all that and more Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Back seat of truck facing the roof, not truck bed. Regards Michael Baird Good information. Keep in mind customer self installs != radio in truck bed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Josh, I tested via a truck, I could take the Alvarion unit and put it on the back seat of the extended cab, and it worked everywhere within a mile radius I drove to. This was an outdoor unit with a 14.5 db panel, strictly speaking I was testing outdoor (I wanted SI's from Alvarion but they aren't available for 3.65 yet). I was supposing that the SI with a multiple antenna array and higher transmit would perform similarily to a radio sitting flat on the seat of a truck, maybe it was a bad supposition. Regards Michael Baird Are you (Michael) talking about self install or outdoor install? Mike (Hammett) is talking about self installs. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
That's what I had in my head typed it out wrong. Do you have much foliage in the way? Was this all LOS driving around? I would imagine once you get inside a house things changes drastically coming from a truck. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Back seat of truck facing the roof, not truck bed. Regards Michael Baird Good information. Keep in mind customer self installs != radio in truck bed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Josh, I tested via a truck, I could take the Alvarion unit and put it on the back seat of the extended cab, and it worked everywhere within a mile radius I drove to. This was an outdoor unit with a 14.5 db panel, strictly speaking I was testing outdoor (I wanted SI's from Alvarion but they aren't available for 3.65 yet). I was supposing that the SI with a multiple antenna array and higher transmit would perform similarily to a radio sitting flat on the seat of a truck, maybe it was a bad supposition. Regards Michael Baird Are you (Michael) talking about self install or outdoor install? Mike (Hammett) is talking about self installs. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Does anyone have an APC EMS Device?
http://snpi.dell.com/sna/images/products/large/A0497965.jpg If you have one, and are willing to open it, can you tell me what the output voltage of the power supply is? Mine has a fried power supply and I feel the need to jury-rig it. ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Is supporting 802.16e really needed ? If you are providing your own CPEs, 802.16d, pre-WiMAX or Navini CDMA with beamforming could work just fine costing much less. I've tested Redline RedMAX self-install 16d unit and 16d base station and would give it a try on the real environment you wanna cover. I've also tested 802.16e gear with MIMO or Beamforming (but not MIMO+BF on the same product) and although they impressed me for building indoor coverage, they all suffered to work on a park very much like NYC's Central Park. Rubens On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick works for Aperto, they don't support beamshaping/mimo or 802.16e, my Alvarion and Navini gear with the non-mimo subscriber radio (mimo on the tower) worked at a mile non-LOS. I appreciate the input, but it disputes my results in the field (rural heavily treed, not urban). Regards Michael Baird Self install won't work in 3650 beyond 1/4 mile, maybe 1/2 mile. Patrick has elaborated on this many times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:22 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Patrick, 16e is where the majority of the chipset development is at, and where companies such as Alcatel/Cisco/Motorola/Alvarion/Zyxel are focusing, and the new big deployments (Clearwire) are using 802.16e, and we want the ability to go to 802.16m when available. We also want to take advantage of the multipath enviroment utilizing mimo and wave 2 profiles. We have more hope of interoperability with 16e (Alvarion states such things with it's open initiative) then we do with 16d, although that isn't something we are counting on. Patrick, I realize you used to work for Alvarion, and now Aperto but you used to evangelize 802.16e and now you evangelize 802.16d, to us 802.16d is going to be the lesser of the two technologies and offers little advantage over our current wifi deployments, as we move to integrate voice into our wireless deployments and replace some of our wireline infrastructure and make a large investment in gear we want to be as future proof as possible. Regards Michael Baird Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Patrick, 16e is where the majority of the chipset development is at, and where companies such as Alcatel/Cisco/Motorola/Alvarion/Zyxel are focusing, and the new big deployments (Clearwire) are using 802.16e, and we want the ability to go to 802.16m when available. We also want to take 802.16m will be almost as apart from 16e as 16e is from a 16d on a radio stand-point; network-wise 16m will follow 16e pretty close, but that is only unfortunate as 16e requires more of a cellular structure (BTS, BSC, so forth) which is not a WISP usually wants. advantage of the multipath enviroment utilizing mimo and wave 2 profiles. We have more hope of interoperability with 16e (Alvarion states such things with it's open initiative) then we do with 16d, although that isn't something we are counting on. I've heard too many promises from Alvarion to believe any of them. My previous employer is still waiting for some features and certifications on the BreezeMAX 16d gear they bought. Patrick, I realize you used to work for Alvarion, and now Aperto but you used to evangelize 802.16e and now you evangelize 802.16d, to us 802.16d is going to be the lesser of the two technologies and offers little advantage over our current wifi deployments, as we move to integrate WiMAX has significant advantages in channel access method compared to Wi-Fi. Proprietary gear like Alvarion VL, Aperto PacketWave and Motorola Canopy has the same advantages and one can hope that Mikrotik Nstreme and Ubiquiti AirMax evolve enough to achieve such a good pps performance, but that is not the situation right now. Regarding NLOS, I've found that the OFDM symbol proportion used in WiMAX also gives better NLOS performance than Wi-Fi. May be one day a new Atheros chipset may come by with such a feature... voice into our wireless deployments and replace some of our wireline infrastructure and make a large investment in gear we want to be as future proof as possible. Managing voice and data is mainly a channel access issue (QoS in marketing lingo), and 2nd a pps (packets per second) issue, both not what Wi-Fi does best. Personally I would convert more wireless to wireline than the other way around... Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I used to drink the Koolaid, but in all fairness to Alvarion, there was much more hope for a .16e future back then. Today, not so much. LTE has already won and .16e will find only small, limited life and even less mass development. Even if it had a long life, .16m won't do you a lick of good in 3.65 GHz anymore than 16e will. These are subsets of standards that have zero to do with the type of networks all are building in 3.65 -- fixed. The FCC power and other rules simply do not make anything but fixed technically feasible. And when things are not technically feasible in scale, they will never be made to be economically feasible. That means that no one will invest any truly significant dollars to have end devices, interoperability and all that. 3.65 with WiMAX is GREAT for fixed, but people need to wake up from the misguided dream that any efforts on the mobile WiMAX front have applicability to 3.65. Trust me, the last person in the world the big companies in the WiMAX Forum (Intel, Huwaei, etc.) care about is a WISP owner and they have zero interest in developing products for you. The only possible exception might be Motorola, but their offer of a 3.65 GHz product is less of an effort to support WISPs compared to finding a home for their sunk investment in WiMAX because they will never re-coup it on the carrier front -- that glossy dream has vanished. (Regardless of their motives, it is a good -- if late -- move on their part in my view.) I understand your fervent hopes and dreams here, but what I am telling you will save you much pain and wasted investment and cost if you can accept it. Anyone trying to translate serious .16e/m/etc benefits to the fixed/3.65 (beyond the slight range advantage of diversity, but at what cost) world greatly misunderstands the space because every facet -- technical, social, political and economic -- work against you in this debate. It is a fact, come to it sooner or later, but it is still a fact. P.S. -- Alcatel dumped mobile WiMAX development many months ago and the ranks of those dumping it continues to swell. Those who do not dump it will find their lunch eaten by Huwaei, who is being subsidized below cost by the Chinese government in a global strategic effort to capture a major share of the global telecom market. Huwaei then (in my opinion) uses its capture of .16e customers as the Trojan Horse to convert that customer to LTE later. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Patrick, 16e is where the majority of the chipset development is at, and where companies such as Alcatel/Cisco/Motorola/Alvarion/Zyxel are focusing, and the new big deployments (Clearwire) are using 802.16e, and we want the ability to go to 802.16m when available. We also want to take advantage of the multipath enviroment utilizing mimo and wave 2 profiles. We have more hope of interoperability with 16e (Alvarion states such things with it's open initiative) then we do with 16d, although that isn't something we are counting on. Patrick, I realize you used to work for Alvarion, and now Aperto but you used to evangelize 802.16e and now you evangelize 802.16d, to us 802.16d is going to be the lesser of the two technologies and offers little advantage over our current wifi deployments, as we move to integrate voice into our wireless deployments and replace some of our wireline infrastructure and make a large investment in gear we want to be as future proof as possible. Regards Michael Baird Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I concur, Patrick hit the nail on the head with his response. 802.16e has little value with current 3.65 rules, and 802.16d likely a better match.. One of the failicies is that 802.16e means smart antenna designs, which does not have to be the case. Just because many 802.16d vendors favor cost and avoid multple antenna designs, does not mean its not capable in the spec. For example, Antenna diversity techniques to extend range and increase NLOS capabilty is possible. I can tell you Aperto pre-wimax was one of the first to deploy Diversity antenna to increase coverage and link budget. Back in the day, it probably yielded 25% better coverage, although it may not have been often deployed due to cost justification of the solution, based on technology costs back then. But, Michael indirectly brings up a good debate topic, that many WISPs might be looking at today, Mimo versus WiMax.. A year ago, WiMax was full of products limited to 7-10Mhz channels, claiming spectral efficiency, ignoring real world noise floors. In 5.8Ghz, this led our company to favor non-WiMax products, that supported full 20Mhz channel. However, the world is changing. There are numerous 802.16d products in 5.8G that support 20Mhz channels. I can give an example of the Libre line product (older version was Wi-LAN) sold by Pulsewan. But whether we are talking a 20Mhz channel in 5.8G or a 7Mhzchannel in 3650M, the same challenge is being faced How do I get more speed/capacity per sector in the real world?. When it comes to WiMax, 802.11d is a clear winner over 802.16e, because 802.11d is more spectral efficient. Based on basic radio designs, it can also be argued 802.16d or other TDD polling methods will do better than legacy standard CDMA that will have lower layer1/2 efficiency. But the question today is, what about Mimo? Will Mimo do MORE for speed capacity? Currently, many manufacturers' MIMO designs are limited to diverse dual polarity configuration, which doesn't necessarily have much more spectral efficiency, if you consider a single Polarity a usable channel. Meaning requiring Channel 1 H and channel 1 V, is equivellent to two channels. In an Urban environement opposite polarity isolation can be key to avoid noise floor, and rare to get free channels on same polarity.. These Dual Pol MIMO do however lower cost both for equipment and colocation to reach higher capacity, since two polaries, wider channels (if available) will only take up one mPCi slot and one colocation antenna mount point. But at the end of the day, colocation space is not a limited supply like Spectrum is. Ultimately Spectrum efficiency will become number one importance, expecially when we are crying, we need more spectrum. Where MIMO gets exciting is in two same single Pol antennas designs. Technically, MIMO is made technically possible by diversity in time space. With MIMO, and two antennas, it should be possible to get Double the speed in the same amount of spectrum and same single polarity. When match MIMO matched with efficient TDMA, this could potentially give MIMO systems a large spectral efficiency jump ahead other non-Mimo systems such as 802.11d, and even things like Canopy new OFDM solutions. Because 802.11d is a defined standard for interoperabilty, its not likely 802.11d compliant products will evolve to MIMO double capacity designs anytime soon. If WiMax-D manufacturers are doing this, I'd like to learn more about their plans and capabilty. So here is the delimna and hesitation.. Will Single Pol dual antenna MIMO work in the real world to yield higher capacity? It works in the lab because it only considers the RF signal of the link being testing. Surely, diverse time space is free and clear in a controlled environment, to be effective. But in the real world there are other interference sources, that transmit at sporatic time intervals. If two spaces in time are being used for one's signal, there could be double the chance that one of those time periods will line up with an another interference source's time of transmission. Will MIMO be more succeptable to interference in high noise environments, expecially in URBAN America? In broadband its not just about radio raw speed, it is more about TCP throughput. Link quality is more important than link capacity to deliver faster TCP throughput. Let me address it from another perspective... A year ago, prior to low cost wifi availabilty of MIMO WiMax had a strong justification, regardless of price. Simply put, spectrum was limited, opportunity was great, and any technology that delivered better survivabilty and capacity spectral efficiency would likely be able to cost justify the technology, even if 10x the cost in some cases. But in today's world, there is a different justification Wifi MIMO has the promise of HIGHER capacity. Now WISPs are asking, What wifi technology compromises am I willing to deal with and
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Everytime I see that pricing it makes me cringe... since I've seen Moto give pricing way before a product is actually set to release and its way off the mark. I hope it's right for Moto sake :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com dan...@3-db.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
And how is this product useful? 10 customers at 50/mo takes 140 months for an ROI. Assuming that's one AP. On 12/29/09, Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com wrote: Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
LTE has already won and .16e will find only small, limited life and even less mass development. Do you see any point in small BRS/EBS (MMDS/ITFS) license holders deploying 802.16e in these frequency bands? Huwaei then (in my opinion) uses its capture of .16e customers as the Trojan Horse to convert that customer to LTE later. Is any development of LTE in the 2.5 band to make this even possible? -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I hate to sabatage this 3650 thread, but I cant help myself, when 802.16e is mentioned for PtMP 1) Ubiquiti Mimo AP - $89, capacity up to 150 mb, (or maybe 50mbps might be more fair, for avg 20 Mhz channel 2x pole). 2) Mikroik AP MIMO- $400, capacity: same as Ubiquiti, but with Spectrum Analysis, and a bit of hassle added. 3) Wimax 802.16e AP (1 antenna) - $9000, capacity: more efficient use of 25 mbps. 4) Wimax 802.16d AP - ?? $2000 - $7000 ??, capacity: same as Legacy TDD OFDM, or CDMA OFDM if small channel in 3.65G. 5) Legacy TDD OFDM- $1800, up to 25 mbps. Better management than wifi 6) Legacy CDMA OFDM AP- $300, capacity like 14 mbps. 7) Legacy DSSS TDD - $1300, 10mbps In the transition from Legacy to next adjacent generation, the decissions might have been tough. I get it, when some justified WiMax. But as we jump to the current day, represented at the top of the chart with items #1 and #2, it is almost silly to even see 802.16e in the line-up. Ubiquiti offers 1/100th the price, at 2x to 6x higher capacity than Wimax, dependant on how you look at it. Lets get real, will a WISP still consider Wimax-e, just to get a few feature enhancements, that is if they were to use their OWN money? Sure, we might choose WiMax for a grant, when WiMax will help prove Never able to reach profitabilty, without aid. But thats a different game. Now, we also have to consider, just about all carriers other than Sprint, has preferred and will choose LTE. Its inevidable that LTE will extinguish the 802.16e carrier market, so we cant even argue 802.16e will help our exit strategy, anymore. Dont misunderstand me, I dont doubt WiMax's technology. Its good stuff. So my question is, when will 802.16e manufacturers admit their original target market, game plan, and price list is ancient history? Will recent industry developments force WiMax 802.16e carriers to lower their price points down to the levels that are in line with the WISP market's expectations? Surely, its technically possible to reach those price points, Ubiquiti proved that, even if with Wifi chipsets. Arguably, Intel could reach the same scale with 802.16e instantly, if manufacturers lowered the AP cost to sub $2000. Will the BTOP/BIP program prevent price drops? Why lower price, when Grant programs could keep the price high for atleast 3 more years, beyond what the private funded operators would normally allow? Ubiquiti has set the bar high for our industry, and has got to be the largest disruptive force to the ISP industry since Cogent drove transit low cost. Wimax has a challenge in front of them. They lost the carrier market, and if you ask me, they'll lose the WISP market to, if they dont lower their price and up their game. I agree, WISPs would rather a full featured WiMax product, but when its being compared against a $90 product that is like Wifi on steroids, its a new game. I predict there will be numerous manufacturers this year filling the market that Mikrotik is currently leading the effort to tackle. Its the markets where its realized that a $99 AP is not necessary, and compromises like giving up spectrum analysis cant be accepted, but where manufacturers will challenge themselve to see how close to the price point they can get, without compromising advanced features. History showed us that Consumers will choose Linksys over Cisco. Eventually Cisco realized they had to become Linksys, in some capacity. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
BRS/EBS is a different story entirely and the only place where .16e has a reasonable home in my opinion. The power allows for a zero truck roll model, meaning self-install indoor modems become viable. But that comes with some cost. I believe in BRS/EBS it makes sense to invest in a 5 meter clutter study so you know EXACTLY which addresses you can connect at the right modulation and do not vary from that plan. This keeps the network performing best technically and enables you to target your marketing with perfect efficiency. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear LTE has already won and .16e will find only small, limited life and even less mass development. Do you see any point in small BRS/EBS (MMDS/ITFS) license holders deploying 802.16e in these frequency bands? Huwaei then (in my opinion) uses its capture of .16e customers as the Trojan Horse to convert that customer to LTE later. Is any development of LTE in the 2.5 band to make this even possible? -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
In our case, the numbers are about $20k for three sectors yielding an aggregate of about 60 mbps net for that cell. With WiMAX scheduling and our QoS, you could realistically connect well over 600 CPE in that cell. The sweet spot remains commercial, especially when implementing a double play of voice and data, so you can generate high ARPU. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear I hate to sabatage this 3650 thread, but I cant help myself, when 802.16e is mentioned for PtMP 1) Ubiquiti Mimo AP - $89, capacity up to 150 mb, (or maybe 50mbps might be more fair, for avg 20 Mhz channel 2x pole). 2) Mikroik AP MIMO- $400, capacity: same as Ubiquiti, but with Spectrum Analysis, and a bit of hassle added. 3) Wimax 802.16e AP (1 antenna) - $9000, capacity: more efficient use of 25 mbps. 4) Wimax 802.16d AP - ?? $2000 - $7000 ??, capacity: same as Legacy TDD OFDM, or CDMA OFDM if small channel in 3.65G. 5) Legacy TDD OFDM- $1800, up to 25 mbps. Better management than wifi 6) Legacy CDMA OFDM AP- $300, capacity like 14 mbps. 7) Legacy DSSS TDD - $1300, 10mbps In the transition from Legacy to next adjacent generation, the decissions might have been tough. I get it, when some justified WiMax. But as we jump to the current day, represented at the top of the chart with items #1 and #2, it is almost silly to even see 802.16e in the line-up. Ubiquiti offers 1/100th the price, at 2x to 6x higher capacity than Wimax, dependant on how you look at it. Lets get real, will a WISP still consider Wimax-e, just to get a few feature enhancements, that is if they were to use their OWN money? Sure, we might choose WiMax for a grant, when WiMax will help prove Never able to reach profitabilty, without aid. But thats a different game. Now, we also have to consider, just about all carriers other than Sprint, has preferred and will choose LTE. Its inevidable that LTE will extinguish the 802.16e carrier market, so we cant even argue 802.16e will help our exit strategy, anymore. Dont misunderstand me, I dont doubt WiMax's technology. Its good stuff. So my question is, when will 802.16e manufacturers admit their original target market, game plan, and price list is ancient history? Will recent industry developments force WiMax 802.16e carriers to lower their price points down to the levels that are in line with the WISP market's expectations? Surely, its technically possible to reach those price points, Ubiquiti proved that, even if with Wifi chipsets. Arguably, Intel could reach the same scale with 802.16e instantly, if manufacturers lowered the AP cost to sub $2000. Will the BTOP/BIP program prevent price drops? Why lower price, when Grant programs could keep the price high for atleast 3 more years, beyond what the private funded operators would normally allow? Ubiquiti has set the bar high for our industry, and has got to be the largest disruptive force to the ISP industry since Cogent drove transit low cost. Wimax has a challenge in front of them. They lost the carrier market, and if you ask me, they'll lose the WISP market to, if they dont lower their price and up their game. I agree, WISPs would rather a full featured WiMax product, but when its being compared against a $90 product that is like Wifi on steroids, its a new game. I predict there will be numerous manufacturers this year filling the market that Mikrotik is currently leading the effort to tackle. Its the markets where its realized that a $99 AP is not necessary, and compromises like giving up spectrum analysis cant be accepted, but where manufacturers will challenge themselve to see how close to the price point they can get, without compromising advanced features. History showed us that Consumers will choose Linksys over Cisco. Eventually Cisco realized they had to become Linksys, in some capacity. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I read the Moto 802.16e MIMO spec. I found it interesting that receive sensitivy for QAM64 was -89. That is awesome, compared to wifi OFDM of about -68. Doesn't help with the noise floor SNR requirements though. I also found it insightful that the 802.16e model AUTO shifted from MIMO A to B. Its uses Dual Pol methodology. (A = same data send on each pol for higher receive signal and NLOS penetration, B = different data sent on each pol for double throughput, but no link budget improvement) On the 430 5.8Ghz OFDM line, I had heard that it was going to be limited to integrated antenna CPE and Verticle Pol only. Is that true? Or will it have an external antenna CPE option? I know a Beehive can be put on the 10dbi ant to make it higher, but it would still be discouraging if product prevented from using high end parabolic dishes. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Everytime I see that pricing it makes me cringe... since I've seen Moto give pricing way before a product is actually set to release and its way off the mark. I hope it's right for Moto sake :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com dan...@3-db.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG.
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Patrick, Just for the record, let me say I realize there are many little details between WiMax and Wifi that can translate to real big differences in value proposition gain for Wimax, after all said and done. There is no doubt in my mind that Wimax-D price tags for top quality gear can results in a reasonable ROI for those targeting commercial markets. More so when a company graduates from mompop size operation to a company that has to be able to scale easilly. But it has never really mattered what the profit or revenue potential was for using a product. At the end of the day operators dont pay more than they have to pay for anything. No business does. As an example, its ludacris that I pay more for one of my core roof rights sites than I do for the transit fiber that serves my entire foot print of customers made possible by 24 cell sites. But I pay less for transit, because there is competition between vendors, and I can. Its irrelevent that the transit should be worth a higher percentage of my revenue. As well, I pay more than I should for that one high priced roof, because there was competition amongst buyers, and I legitimately needed that space. Clearly in 3.65ghz, there is an immediate opportunity for manufacturers to hold on to high margins for longer, and justify them. But... I still stand behind my core point. The dynamics are changing. Prices are falling, and low price gear is starting to become more feature rich, closer to a WiMax product, tolerable to scale an operation. The gap between Wifi and Wimax is shrinking. It will be an interesting year in wireless technology again this year. My 2010 New Years Wish is that maybe in 2010, 80Ghz manufacturers will step up to make progress equivellent or in line with Licensed 6-23G PTP and 3.5-5.8G PtMP manufacturers that made major advancements in 2009. The technology is there, I just hope our industry accomplishes the price point needed for mass scale in time, before companies like ATT get fiber to every home by 2015 :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear In our case, the numbers are about $20k for three sectors yielding an aggregate of about 60 mbps net for that cell. With WiMAX scheduling and our QoS, you could realistically connect well over 600 CPE in that cell. The sweet spot remains commercial, especially when implementing a double play of voice and data, so you can generate high ARPU. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear I hate to sabatage this 3650 thread, but I cant help myself, when 802.16e is mentioned for PtMP 1) Ubiquiti Mimo AP - $89, capacity up to 150 mb, (or maybe 50mbps might be more fair, for avg 20 Mhz channel 2x pole). 2) Mikroik AP MIMO- $400, capacity: same as Ubiquiti, but with Spectrum Analysis, and a bit of hassle added. 3) Wimax 802.16e AP (1 antenna) - $9000, capacity: more efficient use of 25 mbps. 4) Wimax 802.16d AP - ?? $2000 - $7000 ??, capacity: same as Legacy TDD OFDM, or CDMA OFDM if small channel in 3.65G. 5) Legacy TDD OFDM- $1800, up to 25 mbps. Better management than wifi 6) Legacy CDMA OFDM AP- $300, capacity like 14 mbps. 7) Legacy DSSS TDD - $1300, 10mbps In the transition from Legacy to next adjacent generation, the decissions might have been tough. I get it, when some justified WiMax. But as we jump to the current day, represented at the top of the chart with items #1 and #2, it is almost silly to even see 802.16e in the line-up. Ubiquiti offers 1/100th the price, at 2x to 6x higher capacity than Wimax, dependant on how you look at it. Lets get real, will a WISP still consider Wimax-e, just to get a few feature enhancements, that is if they were to use their OWN money? Sure, we might choose WiMax for a grant, when WiMax will help prove Never able to reach profitabilty, without aid. But thats a different game. Now, we also have to consider, just about all carriers other than Sprint, has preferred and will choose LTE. Its inevidable that LTE will extinguish the 802.16e carrier market, so we cant even argue 802.16e will help our exit strategy, anymore. Dont misunderstand me, I dont doubt WiMax's technology. Its good stuff. So my question is, when will 802.16e manufacturers admit their original target market, game plan, and price list is ancient history? Will recent industry developments force WiMax 802.16e carriers to lower their price points down to the levels that are in line with the WISP market's expectations? Surely, its technically possible
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Tom ROTFL You can't compare a ubiquiti to a motorola 16e That's like comparing a Yugo with a Porsche Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 9:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I will admit, Moto has made a name for itself as a company that is here for the long haul. From that perspective, its always excitign to learn about new Moto products on their way. No problem with the $350 CPE level. But, I'd argue $3500 AP is still way to high, even for 802.16e MIMO. The truth is, we all know the cost to make a MIMO device hardware is not that much more than to make legacy non-MIMO, or I should say, very insignificant compared to the market value of the higher capacity. Its all opportunity mark up. (Sure MIMO takes more processor power, more antennas, etc, but those things are likely obtainable cheaper today than their legacy components were when they were designed). I'd also argue that RF speed/price is similar to Computer CPU speed/ price concepts. 50 mbps today is equivelent in value to what 10mbps was to us 5 years ago. Therefore price points should not exceed the cost of 10mbps 5 years ago, for the WISP to get a break even on the new technology. This is from both the perspective of consumer's demand for higher speeds, as well as technology advancement. I'd pose the same arguements Ubiquiti AP $99. vs Moto AP $3500. Paying 35x more for an AP is a tough call. Dont get me wrong, I've always been in favor of higher cost AP, simply because it discourages putting them up unnecessarilly to create noise, before they are needed, and discourages harry high school kid from calling themselves a WISP with one paycheck from McDs. But I'd argued Moto would need to beat the current Canopy Advantage line AP cost in order to make a big splash in the market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Everytime I see that pricing it makes me cringe... since I've seen Moto give pricing way before a product is actually set to release and its way off the mark. I hope it's right for Moto sake :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com dan...@3-db.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
430 cpe is the same as current Canopy SM's Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 9:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I read the Moto 802.16e MIMO spec. I found it interesting that receive sensitivy for QAM64 was -89. That is awesome, compared to wifi OFDM of about -68. Doesn't help with the noise floor SNR requirements though. I also found it insightful that the 802.16e model AUTO shifted from MIMO A to B. Its uses Dual Pol methodology. (A = same data send on each pol for higher receive signal and NLOS penetration, B = different data sent on each pol for double throughput, but no link budget improvement) On the 430 5.8Ghz OFDM line, I had heard that it was going to be limited to integrated antenna CPE and Verticle Pol only. Is that true? Or will it have an external antenna CPE option? I know a Beehive can be put on the 10dbi ant to make it higher, but it would still be discouraging if product prevented from using high end parabolic dishes. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Everytime I see that pricing it makes me cringe... since I've seen Moto give pricing way before a product is actually set to release and its way off the mark. I hope it's right for Moto sake :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com dan...@3-db.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios, can deliver voice and if possible with PPP/NAT/DHCP in the radio rather then as an external gateway device. If any dealers out there would like to chime in or hit me off list I would appreciate it. Regards Michael Baird --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Tom Do you have any Ubiquity AirMac in production? Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 8:15 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: In our case, the numbers are about $20k for three sectors yielding an aggregate of about 60 mbps net for that cell. With WiMAX scheduling and our QoS, you could realistically connect well over 600 CPE in that cell. The sweet spot remains commercial, especially when implementing a double play of voice and data, so you can generate high ARPU. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear I hate to sabatage this 3650 thread, but I cant help myself, when 802.16e is mentioned for PtMP 1) Ubiquiti Mimo AP - $89, capacity up to 150 mb, (or maybe 50mbps might be more fair, for avg 20 Mhz channel 2x pole). 2) Mikroik AP MIMO- $400, capacity: same as Ubiquiti, but with Spectrum Analysis, and a bit of hassle added. 3) Wimax 802.16e AP (1 antenna) - $9000, capacity: more efficient use of 25 mbps. 4) Wimax 802.16d AP - ?? $2000 - $7000 ??, capacity: same as Legacy TDD OFDM, or CDMA OFDM if small channel in 3.65G. 5) Legacy TDD OFDM- $1800, up to 25 mbps. Better management than wifi 6) Legacy CDMA OFDM AP- $300, capacity like 14 mbps. 7) Legacy DSSS TDD - $1300, 10mbps In the transition from Legacy to next adjacent generation, the decissions might have been tough. I get it, when some justified WiMax. But as we jump to the current day, represented at the top of the chart with items #1 and #2, it is almost silly to even see 802.16e in the line-up. Ubiquiti offers 1/100th the price, at 2x to 6x higher capacity than Wimax, dependant on how you look at it. Lets get real, will a WISP still consider Wimax-e, just to get a few feature enhancements, that is if they were to use their OWN money? Sure, we might choose WiMax for a grant, when WiMax will help prove Never able to reach profitabilty, without aid. But thats a different game. Now, we also have to consider, just about all carriers other than Sprint, has preferred and will choose LTE. Its inevidable that LTE will extinguish the 802.16e carrier market, so we cant even argue 802.16e will help our exit strategy, anymore. Dont misunderstand me, I dont doubt WiMax's technology. Its good stuff. So my question is, when will 802.16e manufacturers admit their original target market, game plan, and price list is ancient history? Will recent industry developments force WiMax 802.16e carriers to lower their price points down to the levels that are in line with the WISP market's expectations? Surely, its technically possible to reach those price points, Ubiquiti proved that, even if with Wifi chipsets. Arguably, Intel could reach the same scale with 802.16e instantly, if manufacturers lowered the AP cost to sub $2000. Will the BTOP/BIP program prevent price drops? Why lower price, when Grant programs could keep the price high for atleast 3 more years, beyond what the private funded operators would normally allow? Ubiquiti has set the bar high for our industry, and has got to be the largest disruptive force to the ISP industry since Cogent drove transit low cost. Wimax has a challenge in front of them. They lost the carrier market, and if you ask me, they'll lose the WISP market to, if they dont lower their price and up their game. I agree, WISPs would rather a full featured WiMax product, but when its being compared against a $90 product that is like Wifi on steroids, its a new game. I predict there will be numerous manufacturers this year filling the market that Mikrotik is currently leading the effort to tackle. Its the markets where its realized that a $99 AP is not necessary, and compromises like giving up spectrum analysis cant be accepted, but where manufacturers will challenge themselve to see how close to the price point they can get, without compromising advanced features. History showed us that Consumers will choose Linksys over Cisco. Eventually Cisco realized they had to become Linksys, in some capacity. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- ---
Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob
If they send legitimate mail from their hotel or Home circuit (if it was originally an Office account/circuit with you, but bring laptop home also), which home provider blocks SMTP excpet for using Access provider's SMTP server, the legitimate sender will no longer get notice when a send was unsuccessful. SMTP Auth is not always a winning solution, when Port 25 gets blocked. Most mail servers will support both SMTP Authentication and alternate SMTP ports. Port 587 is supposed to be a standard alternate port for SMTP. We have our roaming users replace port 25 with 587 and enable SMTP authentication which seems to work very well. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob The watermark idea sounds like a clever idea, and worthy solution. Only thing, should consider whether you let your mail users send through other providers during travel or secondary locations. (Would also apply to SPF to some extent). If they send legitimate mail from their hotel or Home circuit (if it was originally an Office account/circuit with you, but bring laptop home also), which home provider blocks SMTP excpet for using Access provider's SMTP server, the legitimate sender will no longer get notice when a send was unsuccessful. SMTP Auth is not always a winning solution, when Port 25 gets blocked. So it boils down to... Do you want to set policy to only support mail if sent through your own mail server? Thats a personal decission. But it could also be addressed by how the watermark gets delt with. For example, what if the watermark rule was used, BUT it accepted the first 5 bounces within a define period of time, and then auto blocked all future bounces for a defined period of time? That would be better because it allows getting a few of the bounces for management, but also limits the number of harmful bounces. We use similar techniques with Blacklisting. We let first few through, and then when threshhold is exceeded we temporarilly blacklist sender for like 12 hours. That is very effective in managing SPAM and DDOS. Unforunteately, it is not a good way to prevent poor reputation ratings that rely on other provider's systems that accept and weight to heavilly What is SPAM submissions from their end users. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Terry Hickey thic...@rockies.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob I use MailScanner http://www.mailscanner.info/ . It allows you to put a watermark on all messages leaving your mailserver. If a bounce come in without the watermark , it trashes it . works like a charm for exactly that. Terry - Original Message - From: Nick Olsen n...@brevardwireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Not really. Being in Asia and all. We have had this happen to us before. Just have to wait for them to go away. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] domain spam attack - JoeJob Does anyone have any experience with having an attack done on your domain where the sender spoofs the header and then puts your domain in it as the sender. I think this is called a JoeJob and we are getting 1000's of the bounced messages because of it and are now having difficulty sending to some of the bigger email providers like aol, yahoo, and hotmail. I tracked the originating IP down to somewhere in Asia and reported them to the holder of the Whois information there. Anything else I can do? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I'd say it'd be more like comparing a Corvette with a Porsche... in the right hands in many cases, a Corvette will beat the Porsche, but the Porsche is 35x more expensive. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:01 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Tom ROTFL You can't compare a ubiquiti to a motorola 16e That's like comparing a Yugo with a Porsche Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 9:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I will admit, Moto has made a name for itself as a company that is here for the long haul. From that perspective, its always excitign to learn about new Moto products on their way. No problem with the $350 CPE level. But, I'd argue $3500 AP is still way to high, even for 802.16e MIMO. The truth is, we all know the cost to make a MIMO device hardware is not that much more than to make legacy non-MIMO, or I should say, very insignificant compared to the market value of the higher capacity. Its all opportunity mark up. (Sure MIMO takes more processor power, more antennas, etc, but those things are likely obtainable cheaper today than their legacy components were when they were designed). I'd also argue that RF speed/price is similar to Computer CPU speed/ price concepts. 50 mbps today is equivelent in value to what 10mbps was to us 5 years ago. Therefore price points should not exceed the cost of 10mbps 5 years ago, for the WISP to get a break even on the new technology. This is from both the perspective of consumer's demand for higher speeds, as well as technology advancement. I'd pose the same arguements Ubiquiti AP $99. vs Moto AP $3500. Paying 35x more for an AP is a tough call. Dont get me wrong, I've always been in favor of higher cost AP, simply because it discourages putting them up unnecessarilly to create noise, before they are needed, and discourages harry high school kid from calling themselves a WISP with one paycheck from McDs. But I'd argued Moto would need to beat the current Canopy Advantage line AP cost in order to make a big splash in the market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Everytime I see that pricing it makes me cringe... since I've seen Moto give pricing way before a product is actually set to release and its way off the mark. I hope it's right for Moto sake :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com dan...@3-db.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear We are looking for some more wimax gear to test for the 3.65 band, our basic criteria would be 802.16e/mimo, we've tested Alvarion gear already. We are looking for something that will work in an urban environment with self install radios,
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I hate to sabatage this 3650 thread, but I cant help myself, when 802.16e is mentioned for PtMP 1) Ubiquiti Mimo AP - $89, capacity up to 150 mb, (or maybe 50mbps might be more fair, for avg 20 Mhz channel 2x pole). Not available yet for 3.65 MHz, and will be limited to 5 MHz channel instead of 7 MHz channel. I don't know US regulations for 5.4-5.7 GHz, but even with limited power there are lots of spectrum in many markets that will probably do as fine as 3.65 MHz in this band, opposed to 5.7-5.8 GHz which is crowded in any part of the world. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] power management tools for cell sites
If you're looking to monitor only, check these out: http://www.theenergydetective.com/index.html They talk to Google. Yes, Google is now tracking your power consumption as well. Who knew. http://www.google.org/powermeter/ On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I just installed one of those dot net WattsUp ethernet meters on a vending machine a few weeks ago. Pretty neat! On 12/27/09, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: I use them all over the place these days. Saves a LOT of driving. Also, the bigger unit does give you the current voltage at the site. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: scubac...@gmail.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] power management tools for cell sites Check out DigitalLoggers: http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html They have some cool devices. I use them at tower sites and can reboot individual devices. The DIN relays might work for you. I use the web switches a couple places. Mike At 08:24 PM 12/24/2009, you wrote: I'm hoping someone on this list might recommend me some power management options for cell sites. Ideally, I would like something that does the following: --auto-reboots a device when an IP address does not ping --is ruggedized for outdoor environments (or is easy to stuff in a NEMA 4X box) --let's me http or ssh in and reboot certain ports --is affordable enough where I could just budget it in with all of the cameras and wireless devices Tools like iBoot are a step in the right direction, but it doesn't seem to have very many features, and I will likely want some SNMP features so I could, say, graph the power levels in Cacti . (The idea here is to be able to proactively troubleshoot stuff to avoid a truck roll, and if I do have to do a truck roll, I know that the most obvious power-related stuff has been done first) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I have owned both. Porsche is a true piece of german engineering Corvette was GM crap Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics- il.net wrote: I'd say it'd be more like comparing a Corvette with a Porsche... in the right hands in many cases, a Corvette will beat the Porsche, but the Porsche is 35x more expensive. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 8:01 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Tom ROTFL You can't compare a ubiquiti to a motorola 16e That's like comparing a Yugo with a Porsche Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 9:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I will admit, Moto has made a name for itself as a company that is here for the long haul. From that perspective, its always excitign to learn about new Moto products on their way. No problem with the $350 CPE level. But, I'd argue $3500 AP is still way to high, even for 802.16e MIMO. The truth is, we all know the cost to make a MIMO device hardware is not that much more than to make legacy non-MIMO, or I should say, very insignificant compared to the market value of the higher capacity. Its all opportunity mark up. (Sure MIMO takes more processor power, more antennas, etc, but those things are likely obtainable cheaper today than their legacy components were when they were designed). I'd also argue that RF speed/price is similar to Computer CPU speed/ price concepts. 50 mbps today is equivelent in value to what 10mbps was to us 5 years ago. Therefore price points should not exceed the cost of 10mbps 5 years ago, for the WISP to get a break even on the new technology. This is from both the perspective of consumer's demand for higher speeds, as well as technology advancement. I'd pose the same arguements Ubiquiti AP $99. vs Moto AP $3500. Paying 35x more for an AP is a tough call. Dont get me wrong, I've always been in favor of higher cost AP, simply because it discourages putting them up unnecessarilly to create noise, before they are needed, and discourages harry high school kid from calling themselves a WISP with one paycheck from McDs. But I'd argued Moto would need to beat the current Canopy Advantage line AP cost in order to make a big splash in the market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Everytime I see that pricing it makes me cringe... since I've seen Moto give pricing way before a product is actually set to release and its way off the mark. I hope it's right for Moto sake :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com dan...@3-db.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Soon as in q1 or q2 IIRC $350~ SM $3500~ AP Specs are in the website under 320 series Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: moto Did you mean they are comming out with soon? or did you really mean they are talking about comming out with? In WISP time, there is a big difference. Yeah, it would be cool if that was comming in the near future at current Canopy level price points. But that is an if. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Less? Moto is comming out with a 16e system with 4.5 bits per hz using mimo Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 29, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: Why is your basic criteria .16e with MIMO (or .16e at all)? All .16e gets you in 3.65 GHz is much more (30% more) latency, less throughput per MHz, higher overhead and more cost. And you won't get any hope for interoperability, indoor modems, USB dongles or PC cards, since those are only applicable to licensed bands. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
LTE has already won and .16e will find only small, limited life and even less mass development. Do you see any point in small BRS/EBS (MMDS/ITFS) license holders deploying 802.16e in these frequency bands? Hi Blake, I'd say the question boils down to who's going to foot the bill for the deployment -- you or the government =) -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I'd say the question boils down to who's going to foot the bill for the deployment -- you or the government =) With or without government stimulus I'm curious of the lists' general consensus on whether or not WiMAX is worthwhile investment in this 'war' of LTE vs WiMAX. Having Uncle Sam foot the bill on a deployment definitely lowers / removes the financial barrier, but doesn't really matter if deploying WiMAX is a foolish endeavor from the get-go due to lack of customer demand or vendors ceasing development. I believe WiMAX has an opportunity to be commercially viable at least for a couple of years, and I don't see any reason to not take advantage of that fact. But, what do I know. Consider this a question solely for the sake of debate. -- Blake Covarrubias WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
