Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa.  Gary Troutman has been GREAT.  And 
he's really done a lot of research into my industry.  He's got me on some 
very cool insurance programs.  Good reasonable stuff.


His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE



From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:


Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain policies 
even where risk of loss is relatively minor.  E+O is an example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the bare 
minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether the client 
does $10,000 per year or $250,000.


Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties part to 
try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 overall program.

This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else.  You really do get what you pay for.  These 
policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a claim paid 
would be the exception rather than the rule.  Plus they are likely placed 
with relatively [financially] weak carriers.


My value to your clients would be in the area of making their insurance 
budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage with stronger 
carriers.  My guess is that clients that are generating revenue of

$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.

Paul


    Original Message 
   Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
   Date:   Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
   From:   Dylan Oliver

   I'm interested in group insurance.  Been talking to United (through
   wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what we've 
been

   offered:

   $2,128 general liability  property +
   $700 umbrella +
   $250 program administration charges +
   $1,250 professional EO (optional) +
   $250 EO administration charges (optional) +
   $250 Healthy  Safety Manual (maybe optional).

   The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium of 
$585.


   And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a 
quarter

   of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?

   Best,
   --
   Dylan Oliver
   Primaverity, LLC

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get quotes and 
maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade association to get 
some members services so people have a reason to join.  With added 
services comes members and money.  With members and money comes pull 
at the FCC level.  Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule 
the world.  *Right Brain* 
Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa.  Gary Troutman has been 
GREAT.  And he's really done a lot of research into my industry.  He's 
got me on some very cool insurance programs.  Good reasonable stuff.


His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE



From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:


Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain 
policies even where risk of loss is relatively minor.  E+O is an 
example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the bare 
minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether the 
client does $10,000 per year or $250,000.


Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties 
part to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 
overall program.

This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else.  You really do get what you pay for.  
These policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a 
claim paid would be the exception rather than the rule.  Plus they 
are likely placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.


My value to your clients would be in the area of making their 
insurance budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage 
with stronger carriers.  My guess is that clients that are generating 
revenue of

$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.

Paul


    Original Message 
   Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
   Date:   Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
   From:   Dylan Oliver

   I'm interested in group insurance.  Been talking to United (through
   wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what 
we've been

   offered:

   $2,128 general liability  property +
   $700 umbrella +
   $250 program administration charges +
   $1,250 professional EO (optional) +
   $250 EO administration charges (optional) +
   $250 Healthy  Safety Manual (maybe optional).

   The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium 
of $585.


   And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a 
quarter

   of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?

   Best,
   --
   Dylan Oliver
   Primaverity, LLC

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--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread Peter R.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get quotes 
and maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade association to 
get some members services so people have a reason to join.  With added 
services comes members and money.  With members and money comes pull 
at the FCC level.  Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule 
the world.  *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal 
Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating 
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a 
volume club.


Regards,

Peter
4isps.com
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
He's going to check on what kind of group programs then can come up with for 
us.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE


Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get quotes and 
maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade association to get some 
members services so people have a reason to join.  With added services 
comes members and money.  With members and money comes pull at the FCC 
level.  Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. 
*Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa.  Gary Troutman has been GREAT. 
And he's really done a lot of research into my industry.  He's got me on 
some very cool insurance programs.  Good reasonable stuff.


His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE



From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:


Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain policies 
even where risk of loss is relatively minor.  E+O is an example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the bare 
minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether the client 
does $10,000 per year or $250,000.


Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties part 
to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 overall 
program.

This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else.  You really do get what you pay for.  These 
policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a claim paid 
would be the exception rather than the rule.  Plus they are likely 
placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.


My value to your clients would be in the area of making their insurance 
budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage with stronger 
carriers.  My guess is that clients that are generating revenue of

$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.

Paul


    Original Message 
   Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
   Date:   Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
   From:   Dylan Oliver

   I'm interested in group insurance.  Been talking to United (through
   wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what we've 
been

   offered:

   $2,128 general liability  property +
   $700 umbrella +
   $250 program administration charges +
   $1,250 professional EO (optional) +
   $250 EO administration charges (optional) +
   $250 Healthy  Safety Manual (maybe optional).

   The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium of 
$585.


   And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a 
quarter

   of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?

   Best,
   --
   Dylan Oliver
   Primaverity, LLC

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--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
hear hear. I totally agree with you. I have very little experience with 
Insurance, but mine is a million dollar policy we use for towers and 
other reasons. Its about $100 a month. I'm sure there's a specialized 
insurance company that likely does this. Anyone have a contact at 
American Towers? Perhaps they can point us to an 'industry' insurance 
company or 3.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get quotes 
and maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade association to 
get some members services so people have a reason to join.  With added 
services comes members and money.  With members and money comes pull 
at the FCC level.  Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule 
the world.  *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal 
Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa.  Gary Troutman has been 
GREAT.  And he's really done a lot of research into my industry.  
He's got me on some very cool insurance programs.  Good reasonable 
stuff.


His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE



From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:


Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain 
policies even where risk of loss is relatively minor.  E+O is an 
example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the 
bare minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether 
the client does $10,000 per year or $250,000.


Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties 
part to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 
overall program.

This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else.  You really do get what you pay for.  
These policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a 
claim paid would be the exception rather than the rule.  Plus they 
are likely placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.


My value to your clients would be in the area of making their 
insurance budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage 
with stronger carriers.  My guess is that clients that are 
generating revenue of

$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.

Paul


    Original Message 
   Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
   Date:   Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
   From:   Dylan Oliver

   I'm interested in group insurance.  Been talking to United (through
   wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what 
we've been

   offered:

   $2,128 general liability  property +
   $700 umbrella +
   $250 program administration charges +
   $1,250 professional EO (optional) +
   $250 EO administration charges (optional) +
   $250 Healthy  Safety Manual (maybe optional).

   The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium 
of $585.


   And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat 
a quarter

   of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?

   Best,
   --
   Dylan Oliver
   Primaverity, LLC

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 

Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 


I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.

Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.




  

  432679 
  900 Mhz Access Point 
  
  9000AP 
  $1,895


  427612 
  900 Mhz Access Point
AES 
  9001AP
  $2,395


  498606 
  900 Mhz Access Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9000APC 
  $1,855 


  487642 
  900 Mhz Access Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9001APC 
  $2,355 


  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50 
  $26,250 


  452650 
  Bulk Pack 100 900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-100 
  $47,500 


  459676 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
  BP9000SM-500  
  $222,500 


  460660 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-50 
  $24,250 


  467696
  Bulk Pack 100 900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
  BP9000SMC-100
  $43,500


  483635 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-500 
  $202,500 


  433674 
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module
  
  9000SM 
  $725 


  430697 
  900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
  9001SM 
  $975 


  499667
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
  9000SMC 
  $685


  472614
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
  9001SMC
  $935


  435698
  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  AN900
  
  $100


  446693
  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  BPAN900-50
  
  $4,500


  413627
  Bulk Pack 100: 900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  BPAN900-100
  $8,000


  483655
  900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
  TK10010
  $3,000


  495685
  
  900MHz Access Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
  TK10028
  $30,000 

  


Peter R. wrote:
Brian
Rohrbacher wrote:
  
  
  Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good
stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do
what we can to get more Principal Members.


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

  
  
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being
a volume club.
  
  
Regards,
  
  
Peter
  
4isps.com
  




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Re: [WISPA] USF fund issues

2005-12-12 Thread Peter R.

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


I shot him a note this am.  thanks!

Marlon 



Kris may be a little behind. He was in Tampa for the ISP Expo Saturday.

BTW, Dustin at RSENG / TransmitRF presented some excellent information 
on wireless.


Expo Round-up here: http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.
813.963.5884
4isps.com
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[WISPA] Emailing: P1010644.JPG

2005-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

WISPA's intrepid leader back before there was a WISPA.  grin
marlon
attachment: P1010644.JPG
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was
on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other
high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing
around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP
either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always
favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber
modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit
at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller
operator.



  

  5750SM
  5.7 GHz
Advantage Subscriber Module
  $895.00
  $742.85


  5751SM
  5.7 GHz
Advantage Subscriber Module with AES
  $1,145.00
  $950.35


  BP5750SM-25
  Bundle Pack
25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $14,875.00
  $12,941.25


  BP5750SM-100
  Bundle Pack
100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $45,000.00
  $39,150.00


  BP5750SM-500
  Bundle Pack
500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $187,500.00
  $163,125.00


  5700SM
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module
  $595.00
  $493.85


  5700SMRF
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module with Reflector
  $745.00
  $618.35


  5701SM
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module with AES
  $845.00
  $701.35


  BP5700SM-25
  Bundle Pack
25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $8,750.00
  $7,612.50


  BP5700SM-100
  Bundle Pack
100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $30,000.00
  $26,100.00


  BP5700SM-500
  Bundle Pack
500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $125,000.00
  $108,750.00

  





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Re: [WISPA] Emailing: P1010641.JPG

2005-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

He's at Cisco.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Emailing: P1010641.JPG



Where is Pepper these days? He'd make a great WISPA board member.

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

This one is from the WISP showcase that the FCC put on a year or two 
ago. At least I think that's what it was.


On the left is me.  Then Gene Gains (sometimes he's got time to take 
people around town for some neat tours).  Then I think is one of 
Scriv's partners, Danny.  Then an investment type guy who's name I 
can't remember.  Next is John Scrivner and Dr. Robert Pepper.


This was breakfast at the hotel we were all staying at, near the FCC 
offices.


marlon





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
Well, I tend to agree. Moto builds cable modems, and other competitive 
products. We aren't going to change Moto's pricing policy, product 
strategy, or anything else - well,  unless we all work together.


I see 500 packs broken all the time - so that's the idea - a bunch of us 
put in 1/20th of the price of 500 units, buying 25 units say.. @ 1/2 the 
retail price. But 500 isn't needed here. There's a huge break at Q 100. 
So 10 WISPs could by 10 units each for a total of $2,600 each.. Instead 
of buying 5 units at list.


I understand what you are saying Marlon. Moto doesn't demonstrate much 
interest in WISP strategic futures. They cater to their market - large 
consumers of their products.  The answer is: Use whatever product makes 
you successful. I don't accept the idea that boycotting Moto purchases 
influences our FCC successes. Getting more members and continuing 
improved benefits grows the organization, and that action will influence 
the FCC.


I'm not going to get into Moto vs. Microtik or whatever. Its not in my 
interest to argue for or against any vendor. For me, Moto kicked 
everyone's ass in terms of total cost of service delivery. Others likely 
have other stories, I respect that. That's the nice thing about owning 
your own business, you don't *have* to swallow anyone else's opinion. My 
competitors in the valley here are moving to Moto - about 2 years late, 
but do I care? no.. We've moved on to the next revolution.





Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at 
the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest 
fo the big.  After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until 
you're pretty dang good sized?  And how are you supposed to do that 
when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors?
 
I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes.  But 30 to 50%?  
Not good for the industry.
 
Marlon

(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 

 


- Original Message -
*From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General
List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did
was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other
high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month
screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a
successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC
rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless
you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber
modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per
unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the
smaller operator.


5750SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 
*$742.85*
5751SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00
*$950.35*
BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $14,875.00  *$12,941.25*
BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $45,000.00  *$39,150.00*
BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00*
5700SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module   $595.00 *$493.85*
5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00
*$618.35*
5701SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES  $845.00 
*$701.35*
BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$8,750.00   *$7,612.50*
BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$30,000.00  *$26,100.00*
BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$125,000.00 *$108,750.00*



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Re: [WISPA] buying club meeting

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
Good ideas. Partnering with a successful existing ISPCON would be 
great.  I'm not close to Baltimore, so it would be my first choice. :-) 
I didn't know there was a WISP buying club. That would be a wonderful 
thing.  Do you mean like Price Club or somesuch? Wow, now if they'd 
carry the end-user products and end-user's would be able to 
self-install... that would change the business numbers.


I did 'Telcom Means Business' for local small business people. Sucked 
the hell out of my time. Easily a few hundred hours of work. If the 
ISPCON folks would like a true partnership - i.e., they aren't making 
money off WISPA members, but rather increasing attendance and therefore 
value to vendors, well, that's a great idea. If the Conference is really 
geared to bring business to vendors, products to buyers, and help with 
the education process great. What pisses me off is that most shows 
became insanely profitable for the organizers, so vendors and attendees 
got gouged - and no one is going any longer.  Ah, I love that the market 
rules. well, (except it doesn't for cable and telco monopolies.. :-)


Good ideas. I enjoy these discussions. I feel uncomfortable sometimes 
having them on an open public list though, since there are so many 
lizards on the 'net anymore. :-P




Peter R. wrote:

If you want a buying club, could I suggest that you organize with one 
of the existing ones?

Every time another one is set up in this industry, it dilutes the power.
It's a shame the groups can't all work together more, but that is what 
is. (I have tried to collaborate that effort and I have lost faith and 
interest - too much self-interest is built-in to each group; ego; and 
power hungry executives -- Just the things that help the Tele-Barons 
and MSOs keep us down.


To speak to meeting:
It is a 3 person job. (I just did one solo).
One handles the site and logistics.
One manages vendors and speakers.
One acquires attendees.
The one with vendors is the poor slob with the biggest headache!

If you want to do a combo meeting - like with ISPCON in Baltimore - 
you save on some logistics and get the benefit of a concentrated 
effort and marketing. (CISPA and WCA did this in Santa Clara).


Thoughts?

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.
4isps.com
813.963.5884



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread Blair Davis




I just wish people would quit quoting the Q100 or Q500 price to compare
CPE equipment costs.

Quote the Q1 cost. We all know that one can do better in larger
quantity. But most of us don't buy in Q100 or Q500.

Most of us do good to buy Q5 or Q10.

The high CPE cost is what keeps me from even considering Moto and
such

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

  
  
  
  Now if only we could get Moto to
stop working so hard against us at the FCC and to basically use the
average wisp to support the biggest fo the big. After all, who's gonna
need 500 packs of anything until you're pretty dang good sized? And
how are you supposed to do that when your money is going to subsidise
your largest competitors?
  
  I can certainly see a few point
spread for volumes. But 30 to 50%? Not good for the industry.
  
  Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
  www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  

  
-
Original Message - 
From:
A.
Huppenthal 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
; WISPA
General List 
Sent:
Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club


Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was
on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other
high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing
around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP
either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always
favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber
modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit
at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller
operator.



  

  5750SM
  5.7 GHz
Advantage Subscriber Module
  $895.00
  $742.85


  5751SM
  5.7 GHz
Advantage Subscriber Module with AES
  $1,145.00
  $950.35


  BP5750SM-25
  Bundle
Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $14,875.00
  $12,941.25


  BP5750SM-100
  Bundle
Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $45,000.00
  $39,150.00


  BP5750SM-500
  Bundle
Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules
  $187,500.00
  $163,125.00


  5700SM
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module
  $595.00
  $493.85


  5700SMRF
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module with Reflector
  $745.00
  $618.35


  5701SM
  5.7 GHz
Subscriber Module with AES
  $845.00
  $701.35


  BP5700SM-25
  Bundle
Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $8,750.00
  $7,612.50


  BP5700SM-100
  Bundle
Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $30,000.00
  $26,100.00


  BP5700SM-500
  Bundle
Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
  $125,000.00
  $108,750.00

  


 
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AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal

'people' is me.
note: posting here showed $270 quantity one Moto SM w/power supply  on 
ebay for example.


Its just a thought. I've bought dozens and dozens of Moto SM radios near 
$260 each over the past 12 months all at 5s and 10s quantity. So it can 
be done, just wished it would be a bit easier.



Blair Davis wrote:

I just wish people would quit quoting the Q100 or Q500 price to 
compare CPE equipment costs.


Quote the Q1 cost.  We all know that one can do better in larger 
quantity.  But most of us don't buy in Q100 or Q500.


Most of us do good to buy Q5 or Q10.

The high CPE cost is what keeps me from even considering Moto and such

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at 
the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest 
fo the big.  After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until 
you're pretty dang good sized?  And how are you supposed to do that 
when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors?
 
I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes.  But 30 to 50%?  
Not good for the industry.
 
Marlon

(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 

 


- Original Message -
*From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General
List mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club

Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I
did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or
other high-treed areas.

Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month
screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a
successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC
rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless
you have a spare billion.

Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz
Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to
$261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg
up on the smaller operator.


5750SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 
*$742.85*
5751SM  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00
*$950.35*
BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $14,875.00  *$12,941.25*
BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $45,000.00  *$39,150.00*
BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500  5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber
Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00*
5700SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module   $595.00 *$493.85*
5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00
*$618.35*
5701SM  5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES  $845.00 
*$701.35*
BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$8,750.00   *$7,612.50*
BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$30,000.00  *$26,100.00*
BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules
$125,000.00 *$108,750.00*



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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
 




--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC
 



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Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher





  

  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50 
  $26,250

  



Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid
at all costs.

The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.
HOLY CRAP!

Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:

  
  
I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 
  
Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 
  
  
I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)
  
Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.
  
Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.
  
  
  
  

  
432679 
900 Mhz Access
Point  
9000AP 
$1,895
  
  
427612 
900 Mhz Access
Point
AES 
9001AP
$2,395
  
  
498606 
900 Mhz Access
Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
9000APC 
$1,855 
  
  
487642 
900 Mhz Access
Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
9001APC 
$2,355 
  
  
432631 
Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-50

$26,250 
  
  
452650 
Bulk Pack 100 900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-100

$47,500 
  
  
459676 
Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-500  
$222,500 
  
  
460660 
Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-50 
$24,250 
  
  
467696
Bulk Pack 100 900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
BP9000SMC-100
$43,500
  
  
483635 
Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-500 
$202,500 
  
  
433674 
900 Mhz Subscriber Module

9000SM 
$725 
  
  
430697 
900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
9001SM 
$975 
  
  
499667
900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
9000SMC 
$685
  
  
472614
900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
9001SMC
$935
  
  
435698
900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna

AN900

$100
  
  
446693
Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna

BPAN900-50

$4,500
  
  
413627
Bulk Pack 100: 900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
BPAN900-100
$8,000
  
  
483655
900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
TK10010
$3,000
  
  
495685

900MHz Access Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
TK10028
$30,000 
  

  
  
Peter R. wrote:
  Brian
Rohrbacher wrote: 

Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good
stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do
what we can to get more Principal Members. 
  
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 


You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being
a volume club. 

Regards, 

Peter 
4isps.com 
  
  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/198 - Release Date: 12/12/2005

  


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Reliable Internet, LLC

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want
to research on behalf of the list. 

google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. 

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

  
  

  
432631 
Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-50

$26,250
  

  
  
  
Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k
  
Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid
at all costs.
  
The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.
HOLY CRAP!
  
Unless I am reading something wrong...
  
  http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f
  
  
  
A. Huppenthal wrote:
  


I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 

Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 


I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.

Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.




  

  432679 
  900 Mhz Access
Point  
  9000AP 
  $1,895


  427612 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES 
  9001AP
  $2,395


  498606 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9000APC 
  $1,855 


  487642 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9001APC 
  $2,355 


  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50
  
  $26,250 


  452650 
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-100
  
  $47,500 


  459676 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
  BP9000SM-500  
  $222,500 


  460660 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-50 
  $24,250 


  467696
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
  BP9000SMC-100
  $43,500


  483635 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-500 
  $202,500 


  433674 
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module
  
  9000SM 
  $725 


  430697 
  900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
  9001SM 
  $975 


  499667
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
  9000SMC 
  $685


  472614
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
  9001SMC
  $935


  435698
  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  AN900
  
  $100


  446693
  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  BPAN900-50
  
  $4,500


  413627
  Bulk Pack 100:
900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  BPAN900-100
  $8,000


  483655
  900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
  TK10010
  $3,000


  495685
  
  900MHz Access
Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
  TK10028
  $30,000 

  


Peter R. wrote:
Brian
Rohrbacher wrote: 
  
  Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal




check if you are comparing apples to apples. 900 Mhz units are much
more expensive. 

Have fun, whatever you decide.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

  
  

  
432631 
Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-50

$26,250
  

  
  
  
Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k
  
Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid
at all costs.
  
The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.
HOLY CRAP!
  
Unless I am reading something wrong...
  
  http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f
  
  
  
A. Huppenthal wrote:
  


I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 

Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 


I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.

Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.




  

  432679 
  900 Mhz Access
Point  
  9000AP 
  $1,895


  427612 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES 
  9001AP
  $2,395


  498606 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9000APC 
  $1,855 


  487642 
  900 Mhz Access
Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
  9001APC 
  $2,355 


  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50
  
  $26,250 


  452650 
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-100
  
  $47,500 


  459676 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
  BP9000SM-500  
  $222,500 


  460660 
  Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-50 
  $24,250 


  467696
  Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
  BP9000SMC-100
  $43,500


  483635 
  Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
  BP9000SMC-500 
  $202,500 


  433674 
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module
  
  9000SM 
  $725 


  430697 
  900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
  9001SM 
  $975 


  499667
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
  9000SMC 
  $685


  472614
  900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
  9001SMC
  $935


  435698
  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  AN900
  
  $100


  446693
  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  
  BPAN900-50
  
  $4,500


  413627
  Bulk Pack 100:
900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
  BPAN900-100
  $8,000


  483655
  900MHz Demo Kit -
Connectorized
  TK10010
  $3,000


  495685
  
  900MHz Access
Point
Cluster Kit - Connectorized 
  TK10028
  $30,000 

  


Peter R. wrote:
Brian
Rohrbacher wrote: 
  
  Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone
interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want
this trade association to get some members services so people have a
reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good
stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do
what we can to get more 

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




Yes, I believe I was looking at all 900 products.

If a 100 pack is 295, a 500 pack (buying group) might just be
affordable for ma and pa WISP.

A. Huppenthal wrote:

  
check if you are comparing apples to apples. 900 Mhz units are much
more expensive. 
  
Have fun, whatever you decide.
  
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
  


  

  432631 
  Bulk Pack 50 900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
  BP9000SM-50
  
  $26,250

  



Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid
at all costs.

The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.
HOLY CRAP!

Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:

  
  
I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'.
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm
all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked
by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get
what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. 
  
Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of
our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part
of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my
business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the
*first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as
well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull
together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better
pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others
through a louder voice). 
  
  
I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)
  
Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy
500 and get them at $444 instead.
  
Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.
  
  
  
  

  
432679 
900 Mhz Access
Point  
9000AP 
$1,895
  
  
427612 
900 Mhz Access
Point
AES 
9001AP
$2,395
  
  
498606 
900 Mhz Access
Point
Connectorized (External antenna) 
9000APC

$1,855 
  
  
487642 
900 Mhz Access
Point
AES Connectorized (External antenna) 
9001APC

$2,355 
  
  
432631 
Bulk Pack 50
900
MHz
Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-50

$26,250

  
  
452650 
Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules 
BP9000SM-100

$47,500

  
  
459676 
Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz
Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-500  
$222,500 
  
  
460660 
Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-50 
$24,250 
  
  
467696
Bulk Pack 100
900
MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized
BP9000SMC-100
$43,500
  
  
483635 
Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules
Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-500 
$202,500 
  
  
433674 
900 Mhz Subscriber Module

9000SM 
$725 
  
  
430697 
900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES
9001SM 
$975 
  
  
499667
900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External
antenna) 
9000SMC 
$685
  
  
472614
900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized
(External antenna)
9001SMC
$935
  
  
435698
900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna

AN900

$100
  
  
446693
Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna

BPAN900-50

$4,500
  
  
413627
Bulk Pack 100:
900
Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna
BPAN900-100
$8,000
  
  
483655
900MHz Demo Kit
-
Connectorized
TK10010
$3,000
  
  
495685

900MHz Access
Point
Cluster Kit - 

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal
we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. 
never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. 
some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging 
even for 900 mhz.


$295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 
900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the 
learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are 
much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same 
gain, but that's obvious.


Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone 
alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports 
vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported 
by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at 
least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a 
time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, 
no crap-outs...


Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices 
is 295 each for connectorized.  Cheaper then some roll your own.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I 
want to research on behalf of the list.


google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it.

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50  
$26,250 




Double Radius has 25 pack for  : $8,500.00  double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can 
avoid at all costs.


The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.  
HOLY CRAP!


Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:

I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. 
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - 
I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your 
ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power 
and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s  for 1/2 the price.


Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than 
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity 
of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is 
a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained 
in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs 
at the *first* WISPA meeting.  In fact, I'd likely talk about it at 
ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really 
needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a 
WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules 
(FCC and others through a louder voice).



I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and 
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)


Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. 
Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead.


Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.



432679  900 Mhz Access Point9000AP  $1,895
427612  900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP  $2,395
498606  	900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna)  
9000APC  	$1,855 
487642  	900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9001APC  	$2,355 
432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50  
$26,250 
452650  	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-100  	$47,500 
459676  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules
BP9000SM-500   	$222,500 
460660  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-50  	$24,250 
467696 	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-100 	$43,500
483635  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-500  	$202,500 
433674  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module  	9000SM  	$725 
430697  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 	9001SM  	$975 
499667 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9000SMC  	$685
472614 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External 
antenna) 	9001SMC 	$935

435698  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 

AN900

$100
446693  Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna   

BPAN900-50

$4,500
413627 	Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 
BPAN900-100 	$8,000

483655  900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000
495685  	900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized 	TK10028 
$30,000 



Peter R. wrote:


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Would he give WISPA a good rate?  Anyone interested could get 
quotes and maybe he could cut us a break?  I want this trade 
association to get some members services so people 

Re: [WISPA] Emailing: IMG_0823.JPG

2005-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
You're a dead man Marlon..  I'm calling the boys in Brooklyn 
right now.!




:-P

-B-







Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I'm cleaning some stuff up on the puter.  Found a few pics from the 
2004 FCC trip.
For those that have never seen him, the guy in the white shirt is our 
very own Bob M.


marlon






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread Dylan Oliver
I'm now talking to Jamie Davis of a NASBA (Association of System
Builders) insurance program. He's been helpful so far, and I've
suggested they facilitate the insurance process for WISPs. I don't know
what they've got yet, but check them out:

Jamie Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1908 South el Camino Real
San Clemente, CA 92672
949-322-3481
fax. 949-489-9693
Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Emailing: IMG_0823.JPG

2005-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Who, ME??

Geeze, and I left Spokane so that I didn't have to pack heat anymore!

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Emailing: IMG_0823.JPG


You're a dead man Marlon..  I'm calling the boys in Brooklyn 
right now.!




:-P

-B-







Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I'm cleaning some stuff up on the puter.  Found a few pics from the 
2004 FCC trip.
For those that have never seen him, the guy in the white shirt is our 
very own Bob M.


marlon






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




I'll bet we could get coverage for the liability, but the riders for
gear might be another thing. If one company handles a ton of WISPs,
that is a lot of lightning pay outs...

Dylan Oliver wrote:
I'm now talking to Jamie Davis of a NASBA (Association of
System
Builders) insurance program. He's been helpful so far, and I've
suggested they facilitate the insurance process for WISPs. I don't know
what they've got yet, but check them out:
  
Jamie Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1908 South el Camino Real
San Clemente, CA 92672
949-322-3481
fax. 949-489-9693
  
Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/198 - Release Date: 12/12/2005

  


-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17


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RE: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread G.Villarini
$100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying?  I buy 11 db yagis for
around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. 
never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. 
some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging 
even for 900 mhz.

$295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 
900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the 
learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are 
much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same 
gain, but that's obvious.

Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone 
alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports 
vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported 
by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at 
least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a 
time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, 
no crap-outs...

Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices 
 is 295 each for connectorized.  Cheaper then some roll your own.

 A. Huppenthal wrote:

 I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I 
 want to research on behalf of the list.

 google:
 motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

 I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it.

 I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 432631  Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50

 $26,250 



 Double Radius has 25 pack for  : $8,500.00  double to 50 pack and it 17k

 Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can 
 avoid at all costs.

 The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.  
 HOLY CRAP!

 Unless I am reading something wrong...

 http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



 A. Huppenthal wrote:

 I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. 
 However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - 
 I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your 
 ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power 
 and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s  for 1/2 the price.

 Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than 
 Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity 
 of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is 
 a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained 
 in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs 
 at the *first* WISPA meeting.  In fact, I'd likely talk about it at 
 ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really 
 needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a 
 WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules 
 (FCC and others through a louder voice).


 I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and 
 figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)

 Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. 
 Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead.

 Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.



 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP  $1,895
 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP  $2,395
 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna)  
 9000APC$1,855 
 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External 
 antenna)   9001APC $2,355 
 432631 Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50

 $26,250 
 452650 Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  
 BP9000SM-100   $47,500 
 459676 Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules
 BP9000SM-500   $222,500 
 460660 Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
 BP9000SMC-50   $24,250 
 467696 Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized 
 BP9000SMC-100  $43,500
 483635 Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
 BP9000SMC-500  $202,500 
 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module   9000SM  $725 
 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES   9001SM  $975 
 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External 
 antenna)   9000SMC $685
 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External 
 antenna)   9001SMC $935
 435698 900 Mhz 60 

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread A. Huppenthal

great prices!

G.Villarini wrote:


$100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying?  I buy 11 db yagis for
around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. 
never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. 
some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging 
even for 900 mhz.


$295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 
900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the 
learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are 
much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same 
gain, but that's obvious.


Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone 
alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports 
vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported 
by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at 
least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a 
time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, 
no crap-outs...


Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 

I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices 
is 295 each for connectorized.  Cheaper then some roll your own.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

   

I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I 
want to research on behalf of the list.


google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it.

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


432631  Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50
   



 

$26,250 




Double Radius has 25 pack for  : $8,500.00  double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can 
avoid at all costs.


The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.  
HOLY CRAP!


Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:

   

I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. 
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - 
I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your 
ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power 
and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s  for 1/2 the price.


Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than 
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity 
of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is 
a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained 
in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs 
at the *first* WISPA meeting.  In fact, I'd likely talk about it at 
ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really 
needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a 
WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules 
(FCC and others through a louder voice).



I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and 
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)


Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. 
Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead.


Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.



432679  900 Mhz Access Point9000AP  $1,895
427612  900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP  $2,395
498606  	900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna)  
9000APC  	$1,855 
487642  	900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9001APC  	$2,355 
432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50
 



 

$26,250 
452650  	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-100  	$47,500 
459676  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules
BP9000SM-500   	$222,500 
460660  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-50  	$24,250 
467696 	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-100 	$43,500
483635  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-500  	$202,500 
433674  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module  	9000SM  	$725 
430697  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 	9001SM  	$975 
499667 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9000SMC  	$685
472614 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External 
antenna) 	9001SMC 	$935

435698  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 

AN900

   

Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread George

Plus the piggy or cable and connectors.

George

G.Villarini wrote:

$100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying?  I buy 11 db yagis for
around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of A. Huppenthal
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. 
never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. 
some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging 
even for 900 mhz.


$295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 
900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the 
learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are 
much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same 
gain, but that's obvious.


Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone 
alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports 
vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported 
by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at 
least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a 
time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, 
no crap-outs...


Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices 
is 295 each for connectorized.  Cheaper then some roll your own.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I 
want to research on behalf of the list.


google:
motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack.

I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it.

I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:



432631  Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50



$26,250 




Double Radius has 25 pack for  : $8,500.00  double to 50 pack and it 17k

Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can 
avoid at all costs.


The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius.  
HOLY CRAP!


Unless I am reading something wrong...

http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f



A. Huppenthal wrote:


I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. 
However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - 
I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your 
ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power 
and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s  for 1/2 the price.


Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than 
Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity 
of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is 
a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained 
in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs 
at the *first* WISPA meeting.  In fact, I'd likely talk about it at 
ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really 
needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a 
WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules 
(FCC and others through a louder voice).



I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and 
figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-)


Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. 
Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead.


Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier.



432679  900 Mhz Access Point9000AP  $1,895
427612  900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP  $2,395
498606  	900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna)  
9000APC  	$1,855 
487642  	900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9001APC  	$2,355 
432631  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  	BP9000SM-50



$26,250 
452650  	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules  
BP9000SM-100  	$47,500 
459676  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules
BP9000SM-500   	$222,500 
460660  	Bulk Pack 50  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-50  	$24,250 
467696 	Bulk Pack 100  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized 
BP9000SMC-100 	$43,500
483635  	Bulk Pack 500  900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized  
BP9000SMC-500  	$202,500 
433674  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module  	9000SM  	$725 
430697  	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 	9001SM  	$975 
499667 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External 
antenna)  	9000SMC  	$685
472614 	900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External 
antenna) 	9001SMC 	$935

435698  900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna 

AN900

$100

Re: [WISPA] Re: [wisp] Another reason to love the Barracuda...

2005-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi

See inline...


ly. But
no email server worth it's salt should dump it's spool and put
out an undeliverable bounce in that amount of time.


I disagree. Your view is old school, and todays a new world.  The trend is 
that people want to know when their messages are not successfully delivered 
to the recipient. Its a have it right now world.  Sending mail to a backup 
queuem waiting for the recipient to come back up, is a disservice to the 
recipient and the sender. They'd rather just know the message didn't get 
through, and they know they must call up the subscriber instead.


Secondly, having backup MX records for store and forward servers can create 
a horrible open door for Spammers.


In todays world, I believe scondary MX records should be used solely, to 
redirect to a redundant real time delivery mail server.  Its better to send 
back undeliverable reports than to hold mail infering a fake sense that it 
was delviered.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc


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RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread G.Villarini
Hey Charles ... long time no see ... any winog on 2006 ?

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating 
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a 
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson
And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, 
so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating 
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a 
volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 

 



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Re: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell

2005-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi
I'd like to add, that US manufacturers are required by law to offer 
replacement parts for their products for a minimum of 10 years. Maybe it 
also applies to software? Its also possible that even through a bankruptcy, 
the liabilty to maintain that support may have been assumed when buying the 
product. I'm not a lawyer, but there may be some legal basis requiring 
Proxim to continue to provide the software to its client base. For example, 
software could be considered a spare part of the actual router device. I was 
just wondering if there has been any legal action from anyone, forcing 
Proxim to continue offering its product on a limited basis, apposed to them 
just doing it out of their own good will or experiemnt on if its profitable 
for them to do so.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell



I am in the understanding that we will be able to purchase licenses for
Turbocell for some time but that support and upgrades will not be 
available.

I will not make any statements as to how long this will last.

We currently put our CPE's together using ARC Wireless 19 dbi panels, WRAP
Boards, POE, Power Supply, Hermes II mini-pci cards, 64 Mb Compact Flash,
and a license (SV-4100-H) Total cost of these excluding labor is about 
$320.


We are not building new Turbocell networks!  We are only adding clients to
existing Turbocell networks and continue to build out mini-cells with
Star-OS and WRAP boards in a Hotspot format.

I don't know that you have much choice for Turbocell CPE other than build
your own.

Thanks,

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell

Thanks Rick.. I've heard alot about these WRAP boards.  Is this something 
we


would put together ourselves or are there products available.  What are 
the
costs like?  I guess I'd really be interested in what I should be doing 
for

CPE going on, assuming we can still get the Turbocell licenses (see post
from Blair Davis re: Winncomm continuing to be able to sell Turbocell
licenses).

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
325 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.uwol.net
- Original Message - 
From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell



Mark,

Contact me offlist as we are successfully deploying WRAP boards with
Compact
Flash loaded with Turbocell.  My pains are compounded about 4 times as I
had
about 24 Turbocell POPs when this all started.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell

Hello to the list...

My name is Mark Nash and I own  operate a little WISP of about 300
customers in Oregon.

For CPE, I started out using Breezecom 2.4GHz FH radios then switched to
Karlnet RSU's loaded w/Turbocell.  Then the YDI/Terabeam/Proxim series of
mergers  acquisitions happened and I've got products from all companies
but

they are all Turbocell CPE.

We have 6 WiPops surrounding our customer base (rural southern Willamette
Valley).  We're using Trango backhauls...I started out using them simply
because of their low cost and advertised bandwidth.  I still have two in
use

from when the company was called Sunstream (I think it was 2002).  I
remain
happy about that decision.

We started out with a bridged network then ARP changed my tune and we 
went

to a routed design.

OK, so...there it is.  For those of you who know what's going on with
Turbocell from the new Proxim, you probably know that I'm not happy as
they
have set out to discontinue the Turbocell client software.  So I will 
soon

have to purchase new AP's and shift some customers around because I won't
be

able to purchase Turbocell-based devices.  That's the word from Proxim.
So...anyone heard any differently?  I've also asked Proxim if we can
'downgrade' our Turbocell products to 802.11b and they are saying 'no'.

It's a you-know-what sandwich from which I'd rather not take a bite.

Does anyone feel my pain?  Any way around these issues aside from
replacing
CPE?

Regards,

Mark Nash

Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. 

First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200 
some bucks and support the industry.
Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible, but 
prolly 100 pack to start)

Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a 
buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 
10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next reseller 
and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want the business 
of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal.  Am I 
acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the resellers say screw 
you if I approached like this?
If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) 
run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from 
here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra 
shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured 
before hand.


I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only question 
is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the radio.


Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this and 
might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)


Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


Charles,

I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is 
I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't 
difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a 
closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. 
I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.


However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, 
George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs 
if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, 
training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. 
Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct 
to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors 
for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't 
pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..


Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly 
doesn't support group buys.


The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends 
when the product is delivered.



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 





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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  (would 
have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow. 

Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy gear 
on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void because I 
didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, 
so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 





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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi

Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters 
and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want 
to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to 
different addresses and charged to different accounts.  What are you 
willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a number of 
distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way 
down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they 
use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can install ten a 
month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is a reseller 
somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year 
wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things

that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. 
You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, 
either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, 
once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single 
name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice 
created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and 
file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and 
nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor 
just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and 
someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts.  
What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a 
number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear 
all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of 
the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can 
install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is 
a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k 
a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say.

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different names 
(thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under 
a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a 
single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different 
accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know 
there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions 
worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became 
resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If 
ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we 
look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase 
volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching the 
imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com







--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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