Re: OFFLIST Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices
HA! OFFLIST? - NOT! I just hate it when that happens to me :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 100 pack. How much? Shayne Rose wrote: Regarding Trango M900S-SU's and pricing, Please contact me directly. I can assure you that if you are buying 100+ you will pay less than $400 per SU. /* /*Shayne Rose*/ /*National Sales Manager*/ ** *//* */Trango Broadband/* */a division of //Trango Systems, Inc./ http://www.trangosys.com/* 15070 Ave of Science, Suite 200 San Diego, CA 92128 Office: 858-653-3900x272 Fax: 858-683-2124 e-Fax Mobile: 858-335-2245 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = NOTE: This email may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. = */ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:43 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices Wow, OK, I stand corrected... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices single was $405 at maple net. Mac Dearman wrote: OUCH! I have bought singles that cheap from doubleradius Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell Rick Smith wrote: Travis has gotta be full of it! Distributors for Trango previously, when buying in 100 packs, never got prices better than 420... - --- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:08 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices You get Trango cheaper? Prices please! Travis Johnson wrote: Wow that's more than I pay for the Trango 900mhz and it has dual polarity integrated antennas. ;) Travis Microserv Ron Wallace wrote: My Man. Brian, Excellent. Original message Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:53:40 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Read it and weep nay sayers ;-) I found a VAR to work with. Prices for canopy 900. Connectorized- $262.60 Integrated- $328.7 All details are being posted to Principal Members List. You must be a paid WISPA member to take advantage of the offer. I'd like to get an estimate of volume to the VAR. Pay up to WISPA and hit me offlist to how many you think you could use a month (you won't be committed to this, it's just for a general idea) Brian Ron Wallace wrote: Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some money, good. Ron Wallace Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group
RE: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues
I thought I'd take a few minutes to comment on the USF and other attempts to tax VoIP as if it were a fresh new source of tax revenue for Democrats everywhere. Of course just like the last draft from a congressional staffer re-writing the Telecom act of 1996 (over 300 pages) this FCC document is 30 pages. More light reading over a long beer tonight, why do these lawyers continue to get paid by the word so they produce ridiculously long documents that say the same thing over and over but leave ambiguity so they don't have to define a clear role. My USF comments will summarize that this fund being used for so much more than rural deployment should be cut back to it's original use but if we have to fund it then we get a piece of it when we deploy into the Rural Areas ourselves. Beyond that concession we should be receiving credits for moving broadband into rural areas including exemption from the USF for saving their ridiculous subsidizing as we bring VoIP into those previously funded areas. This would save the need for them to subsidize anything. Forbes Mercy Washington Broadband, Inc. Ps. I keep getting the moderator must approve, I'm not a member. Gee really? -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 7:16 PM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues Did anyone ever take this issue on? We have only about 2 more weeks to make comments. marlon - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:17 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues Hi All, I assume we'll want to file on this issue http://www.broadbandwirelessreports.com/pressreleases/files/DOC-262639A1 .pdf Here's the actual nprm http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-205A1.pdf If anyone really understands the ins and outs of this, please speak up. I'd ask Kris Twoomey but I don't have his addy on my laptop. Can someone please forward? thanks, marlon ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] BPL Announcement in Texas
Posted from the Monday edition of www.dallasnews.xom, see links below and at end of story--Tom, WW5L http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-txu_19bus.ART.State.Edition3.bf6a1c.html TXU grid to carry Internet service New partner to offer broadband connection using power lines 08:10 AM CST on Monday, December 19, 2005 By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News A couple million Texans may soon be able to get their Internet broadband service by plugging into their electrical outlets. A Maryland company is teaming up with TXU Electric Delivery to offer North Texas consumers Internet broadband service over TXU's electric lines. In a deal to be announced today, TXU will pay about $150 million over 10 years for an ownership stake in Current Communications Group Inc., which will turn TXU's transmission system into a smart electricity grid. In turn, Current plans to offer broadband service over TXU's lines. Current Communications uses broadband over power lines, or BPL technology, to hook up customers to the Internet using the electrical outlets in homes. BPL has been touted as a cheaper, more efficient way to get broadband service to customers who aren't easily reached with cable companies' service or DSL service from telephone companies, or wireless service from a cellular phone company or wireless broadband company. However, BPL also competes head-to-head with established broadband providers, as Current is doing in Cincinnati, where it partners with electricity provider Cinergy Corp. As it plans for TXU, Current is building a network atop Cinergy's system to help Cinergy keep track of its power grid. TXU and Current will begin designing the network that will overlay TXU's electric distribution system. Construction is expected to begin in the first half of 2006, with the first BPL service for consumers not expected before the second half of the year. Current Communications' BPL network will cover about 2 million homes and businesses in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and other Texas cities, traversing the majority of TXU Electric Delivery's service area, the companies said. TXU Energy, Reliant and other retailers obtain power over TXU Electric Delivery's grid. With the consumer application not coming until later, TXU and Current officials touted the smart-grid functions, which will allow TXU to monitor its widespread system. TXU Electric Delivery, a part of TXU Corp. and formerly called Oncor, operates more than 14,000 miles of transmission lines and 100,000 miles of distribution lines taking electricity to 3 million customers. Current's BPL solution is a critical enabler of our mission to dramatically improve the way we deliver electricity, TXU Electric Delivery chairman and chief executive Tom Baker said. BPL will enable us to respond more quickly and efficiently to outages of all magnitudes, manage our distribution network more proactively and further safeguard our dispersed critical assets in today's heightened security environment, he said. Added TXU spokesman Chris Schein: We're looking at ways to increase the system reliability and make it really a 21st-century grid. As part of the deal, TXU would become an equity partner in privately held Current, which is based in Germantown, Md. Other shareholders are Cinergy, EnerTech Capital, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Google Inc., the Hearst Corp. and Liberty Associated Partners LP. Liberty Media Corp. is a major limited partner in Liberty Associated. William H. Berkman, chairman and co-founder of Current Communications Group and managing partner of Liberty Associated Partners, said the TXU deal is solid evidence of how BPL answers the federal government's recent call to create a more efficient and reliable 21st-century electricity distribution network. One of the promised features of BPL is the ability to read meters without having to send an employee. Mr. Schein did not commit TXU Electric Delivery to using that function but said it was a possibility. We have been in the process of installing automated meter readers, he said. That certainly is a capability that will be available. Last summer, the Texas Legislature approved a wide-reaching telecom bill that set rules for installing BPL systems on electric lines. The service faced heavy opposition from amateur radio operators concerned that radio waves from BPL systems would interfere with existing wireless systems. E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] How it works Broadband over power lines (BPL), still in its infancy, carries a broadband Internet signal over the electricity grid. Here's a simple explanation of a complicated technology: A high-speed broadband line sends the signal to a device that puts it onto a power line delivering electricity. Devices to repeat the signal are used to keep it strong as it moves along the line, as necessary. Another device extracts the signal from
Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues
In reviewing the NPRM, (FCC 05-205: CC 96-45 - WC 05-337), I found 40 we seek comment requests. This NPRM is as expected, a complex issue and will take some distilling to comment on the most important issues that would be of relevance. Frank Muto Co-founder - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy - WBIA Telecom Summit Ad Hoc Committee http://gigabytemarch.blog.com/ www.wbia.us - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought I'd take a few minutes to comment on the USF and other attempts to tax VoIP as if it were a fresh new source of tax revenue for Democrats everywhere. Of course just like the last draft from a congressional staffer re-writing the Telecom act of 1996 (over 300 pages) this FCC document is 30 pages. More light reading over a long beer tonight, why do these lawyers continue to get paid by the word so they produce ridiculously long documents that say the same thing over and over but leave ambiguity so they don't have to define a clear role. My USF comments will summarize that this fund being used for so much more than rural deployment should be cut back to it's original use but if we have to fund it then we get a piece of it when we deploy into the Rural Areas ourselves. Beyond that concession we should be receiving credits for moving broadband into rural areas including exemption from the USF for saving their ridiculous subsidizing as we bring VoIP into those previously funded areas. This would save the need for them to subsidize anything. Forbes Mercy Washington Broadband, Inc. Ps. I keep getting the moderator must approve, I'm not a member. Gee really? -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 7:16 PM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues Did anyone ever take this issue on? We have only about 2 more weeks to make comments. marlon - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:17 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues Hi All, I assume we'll want to file on this issue http://www.broadbandwirelessreports.com/pressreleases/files/DOC-262639A1 .pdf Here's the actual nprm http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-205A1.pdf If anyone really understands the ins and outs of this, please speak up. I'd ask Kris Twoomey but I don't have his addy on my laptop. Can someone please forward? thanks, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BPL Announcement in Texas
And maybe, the temporary FCC experimental license whichtemporarilly has allowed BPL today, will be allowed to continue to exist? Or not? Still a risky investment, until BPL has been given a perminiate license to exist. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 1:58 PM Subject: [WISPA] BPL Announcement in Texas Posted from the Monday edition of www.dallasnews.xom, see links below and at end of story--Tom, WW5L http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-txu_19bus.ART.State.Edition3.bf6a1c.html TXU grid to carry Internet service New partner to offer broadband connection using power lines 08:10 AM CST on Monday, December 19, 2005 By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News A couple million Texans may soon be able to get their Internet broadband service by plugging into their electrical outlets. A Maryland company is teaming up with TXU Electric Delivery to offer North Texas consumers Internet broadband service over TXU's electric lines. In a deal to be announced today, TXU will pay about $150 million over 10 years for an ownership stake in Current Communications Group Inc., which will turn TXU's transmission system into a "smart electricity grid." In turn, Current plans to offer broadband service over TXU's lines. Current Communications uses broadband over power lines, or BPL technology, to hook up customers to the Internet using the electrical outlets in homes. BPL has been touted as a cheaper, more efficient way to get broadband service to customers who aren't easily reached with cable companies' service or DSL service from telephone companies, or wireless service from a cellular phone company or wireless broadband company. However, BPL also competes head-to-head with established broadband providers, as Current is doing in Cincinnati, where it partners with electricity provider Cinergy Corp. As it plans for TXU, Current is building a network atop Cinergy's system to help Cinergy keep track of its power grid. TXU and Current will begin designing the network that will overlay TXU's electric distribution system. Construction is expected to begin in the first half of 2006, with the first BPL service for consumers not expected before the second half of the year. Current Communications' BPL network will cover about 2 million homes and businesses in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and other Texas cities, traversing the majority of TXU Electric Delivery's service area, the companies said. TXU Energy, Reliant and other retailers obtain power over TXU Electric Delivery's grid. With the consumer application not coming until later, TXU and Current officials touted the smart-grid functions, which will allow TXU to monitor its widespread system. TXU Electric Delivery, a part of TXU Corp. and formerly called Oncor, operates more than 14,000 miles of transmission lines and 100,000 miles of distribution lines taking electricity to 3 million customers. "Current's BPL solution is a critical enabler of our mission to dramatically improve the way we deliver electricity," TXU Electric Delivery chairman and chief executive Tom Baker said. "BPL will enable us to respond more quickly and efficiently to outages of all magnitudes, manage our distribution network more proactively and further safeguard our dispersed critical assets in today's heightened security environment," he said. Added TXU spokesman Chris Schein: "We're looking at ways to increase the system reliability and make it really a 21st-century grid." As part of the deal, TXU would become an equity partner in privately held Current, which is based in Germantown, Md. Other shareholders are Cinergy, EnerTech Capital, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Google Inc., the Hearst Corp. and Liberty Associated Partners LP. Liberty Media Corp. is a major limited partner in Liberty Associated. William H. Berkman, chairman and co-founder of Current Communications Group and managing partner of Liberty Associated Partners, said the TXU deal "is solid evidence of how BPL answers the federal government's recent call to create a more efficient and reliable 21st-century electricity distribution network." One of the promised features of BPL is the ability to read meters without having to send an employee. Mr. Schein did not commit TXU Electric Delivery to using that function but said it was a possibility. "We have been in the process of installing automated meter readers," he said. "That certainly is a capability that will be available." Last summer, the Texas Legislature approved a
Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues
What they really need to do is just add WISPs as logical beneficiaries to USF funds, and the problem would be fixed. Then who cares who would pay into it. It will never be possible to add VOIP providers as USPF fund recipients for Rural area, because its near impossible to control where the VOIP service purchased will be used geographically. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 2:05 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues I thought I'd take a few minutes to comment on the USF and other attempts to tax VoIP as if it were a fresh new source of tax revenue for Democrats everywhere. Of course just like the last draft from a congressional staffer re-writing the Telecom act of 1996 (over 300 pages) this FCC document is 30 pages. More light reading over a long beer tonight, why do these lawyers continue to get paid by the word so they produce ridiculously long documents that say the same thing over and over but leave ambiguity so they don't have to define a clear role. My USF comments will summarize that this fund being used for so much more than rural deployment should be cut back to it's original use but if we have to fund it then we get a piece of it when we deploy into the Rural Areas ourselves. Beyond that concession we should be receiving credits for moving broadband into rural areas including exemption from the USF for saving their ridiculous subsidizing as we bring VoIP into those previously funded areas. This would save the need for them to subsidize anything. Forbes Mercy Washington Broadband, Inc. Ps. I keep getting the moderator must approve, I'm not a member. Gee really? -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 7:16 PM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues Did anyone ever take this issue on? We have only about 2 more weeks to make comments. marlon - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:17 AM Subject: [WISPA FCC] USF fund issues Hi All, I assume we'll want to file on this issue http://www.broadbandwirelessreports.com/pressreleases/files/DOC-262639A1 .pdf Here's the actual nprm http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-205A1.pdf If anyone really understands the ins and outs of this, please speak up. I'd ask Kris Twoomey but I don't have his addy on my laptop. Can someone please forward? thanks, marlon ___ FCC mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/fcc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato
Its always disappointing to hear news of a company in the wireless space shutting down. It reflects poorly on the industry, expecially when its a manufacture of a product that has many technical acheivements such as Vivato.I look at wireless gear, like people, each with their own personality and unique traits, and the world is better off with multiple product personalitiesas the world is with multiple people personalities.I wish Vivato and its affiliates the best in getting through this process. I guess that most likely, some big name brand wireless company will buy the assets and keep the technology alive, as it does have unique capabilty. I'll also say, its probably Vivatos own fault, based on their poor decission to over value their product and try and get $10,000 for a wifi AP, in a world full of tough competitors. The technology very well may survivebased on intellectual property that likely will get bought for a fraction of itsoriginal cost. At the end of the day, creditors get screwed, and it becomes an example that incourages investors in our wireless space to second guess their investment strategies. And I feel for WISPs that chose Vivato, who are likely going to be in a position of significant risk and cost moving forward.Does anyone else even make product that takes care of FCC new power rules? Other than maybe SkyPilot? I don't use Vivato, so it does not directly effect me, but indirectly when the industry is effected, it effects us all.For example, its Vivato that encourages manufacturers to start to make Smart antennas to compete with Vivato. That market pressure no longer exists without Vivato. Strategically it does buy more time for WiFi WISPs to consider what they will do on their networks to survive the potential candidates that would use equipment that supported the new higher power rules. This is also a lesson for us all. Its says that technology does not guarantee survival, a realisticbusiness plan and reachingits goals does. PS. Glad I chose Trango :-) Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Another one bytes the dust http://www.vivato.net/ Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Re: BPL by Tom
Tom- Can you please repost your reply without the graphics? Thanks. Walter In a message dated 12/19/2005 7:08:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 5Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:06:31 -0500From: "Tom DeReggi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WISPA] BPL Announcement in TexasTo: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.orgMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-- next part --A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: not availableType: image/jpegSize: 5008 bytesDesc: not availableUrl : http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/attachments/20051219/9f96a8a6/attachment.jpe-- next part --A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: not availableType: image/gifSize: 4407 bytesDesc: not availableUrl : http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/attachments/20051219/9f96a8a6/attachment.gif -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RIP Vivato
Does anyone else even make product that takes care of FCC new power rules? Navini, which has its own share of problems, for starters, dont believe everything their website tells you! Respectfully, Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Its always disappointing to hear news of a company in the wireless space shutting down. It reflects poorly on the industry, expecially when its a manufacture of a product that has many technical acheivements such as Vivato.I look at wireless gear, like people, each with their own personality and unique traits, and the world is better off with multiple product personalitiesas the world is with multiple people personalities.I wish Vivato and its affiliates the best in getting through this process. I guess that most likely, some big name brand wireless company will buy the assets and keep the technology alive, as it does have unique capabilty. I'll also say, its probably Vivatos own fault, based on their poor decission to over value their product and try and get $10,000 for a wifi AP, in a world full of tough competitors. The technology very well may survivebased on intellectual property that likely will get bought for a fraction of itsoriginal cost. At the end of the day, creditors get screwed, and it becomes an example that incourages investors in our wireless space to second guess their investment strategies. And I feel for WISPs that chose Vivato, who are likely going to be in a position of significant risk and cost moving forward.Does anyone else even make product that takes care of FCC new power rules? Other than maybe SkyPilot? I don't use Vivato, so it does not directly effect me, but indirectly when the industry is effected, it effects us all.For example, its Vivato that encourages manufacturers to start to make Smart antennas to compete with Vivato. That market pressure no longer exists without Vivato. Strategically it does buy more time for WiFi WISPs to consider what they will do on their networks to survive the potential candidates that would use equipment that supported the new higher power rules. This is also a lesson for us all. Its says that technology does not guarantee survival, a realisticbusiness plan and reachingits goals does. PS. Glad I chose Trango :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Another one bytes the dust http://www.vivato.net/ Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Re: BPL Announcement in Texas
Posted from the Monday edition of www.dallasnews.xom, see links below and at end of story--Tom, WW5L http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-txu_19bus.ART.State.Edition3.bf6a1c.html TXU grid to carry Internet service New partner to offer broadband connection using power lines 08:10 AM CST on Monday, December 19, 2005 By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News A couple million Texans may soon be able to get their Internet broadband service by plugging into their electrical outlets. A Maryland company is teaming up with TXU Electric Delivery to offer North Texas consumers Internet broadband service over TXU's electric lines. In a deal to be announced today, TXU will pay about $150 million over 10 years for an ownership stake in Current Communications Group Inc., which will turn TXU's transmission system into a smart electricity grid. In turn, Current plans to offer broadband service over TXU's lines. Current Communications uses broadband over power lines, or BPL technology, to hook up customers to the Internet using the electrical outlets in homes. BPL has been touted as a cheaper, more efficient way to get broadband service to customers who aren't easily reached with cable companies' service or DSL service from telephone companies, or wireless service from a cellular phone company or wireless broadband company. However, BPL also competes head-to-head with established broadband providers, as Current is doing in Cincinnati, where it partners with electricity provider Cinergy Corp. As it plans for TXU, Current is building a network atop Cinergy's system to help Cinergy keep track of its power grid. TXU and Current will begin designing the network that will overlay TXU's electric distribution system. Construction is expected to begin in the first half of 2006, with the first BPL service for consumers not expected before the second half of the year. Current Communications' BPL network will cover about 2 million homes and businesses in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and other Texas cities, traversing the majority of TXU Electric Delivery's service area, the companies said. TXU Energy, Reliant and other retailers obtain power over TXU Electric Delivery's grid. With the consumer application not coming until later, TXU and Current officials touted the smart-grid functions, which will allow TXU to monitor its widespread system. TXU Electric Delivery, a part of TXU Corp. and formerly called Oncor, operates more than 14,000 miles of transmission lines and 100,000 miles of distribution lines taking electricity to 3 million customers. Current's BPL solution is a critical enabler of our mission to dramatically improve the way we deliver electricity, TXU Electric Delivery chairman and chief executive Tom Baker said. BPL will enable us to respond more quickly and efficiently to outages of all magnitudes, manage our distribution network more proactively and further safeguard our dispersed critical assets in today's heightened security environment, he said. Added TXU spokesman Chris Schein: We're looking at ways to increase the system reliability and make it really a 21st-century grid. As part of the deal, TXU would become an equity partner in privately held Current, which is based in Germantown, Md. Other shareholders are Cinergy, EnerTech Capital, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Google Inc., the Hearst Corp. and Liberty Associated Partners LP. Liberty Media Corp. is a major limited partner in Liberty Associated. William H. Berkman, chairman and co-founder of Current Communications Group and managing partner of Liberty Associated Partners, said the TXU deal is solid evidence of how BPL answers the federal government's recent call to create a more efficient and reliable 21st-century electricity distribution network. One of the promised features of BPL is the ability to read meters without having to send an employee. Mr. Schein did not commit TXU Electric Delivery to using that function but said it was a possibility. We have been in the process of installing automated meter readers, he said. That certainly is a capability that will be available. Last summer, the Texas Legislature approved a wide-reaching telecom bill that set rules for installing BPL systems on electric lines. The service faced heavy opposition from amateur radio operators concerned that radio waves from BPL systems would interfere with existing wireless systems. E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] How it works Broadband over power lines (BPL), still in its infancy, carries a broadband Internet signal over the electricity grid. Here's a simple explanation of a complicated technology: A high-speed broadband line sends the signal to a device that puts it onto a power line delivering electricity. Devices to repeat the signal are used to keep it strong as it moves along the line, as necessary. Another device extracts the signal from
[WISPA] Line of Credit
I have used bank credit lines for all my equipment purchases for several years. This was not difficult to setup and there are no problems with the equipment being placed in several locations. If you have good credit you should use a bank if you can but leases are also a good option if credit is not available. I used leases in my first few purchases. The downsides I saw with leases were two things. First, some leases were setup to force a market value buyout instead of $1 buyout at the end. This hurt me on a Portmaster dialup router once where I got to pay about $3000 at the end after I had essentially already paid for the unit plus interest over the life of the lease. The second thing to be cautious of are the cancellation terms. I had a couple of leases that made it almost impossible to get the cancellation done without some kind of penalty or being stuck with an auto-renewal on a lease when we did not catch it at the end. If you do use leases then be careful. Know your terms and your exit strategy on the lease. Scriv Travis Johnson wrote: True but no bank is going to setup a line of credit for a WISP. It's just too risky... equipment is at hundreds of different locations, they have no control over anything about it, etc. Travis Tom DeReggi wrote: Not that I disagree with you, just that at the end of the day what matters most, is who will lend you the money. From the beginning of time, Banks have always been more strict on who they lend to and for what than a leasing company. Sure, once you got a good working relationship with a bank, great, but very few WISPs will be in that position early on. Atleast that is what I have seen to date. Revenue from a paying subscriber today, at just about any rate, is almost always better than not having the revenue from the potential subscriber at all. The arguement I use is, if you get a customer just one month earlier, thats $50 more money you make, Almost a 12% saving right off the bat for getting them installed a month earlier. If a finance company can get the amount approved quickly, without a bunch of paperwork to delay everything, I'd argue that they deserve the extra percentages that they are getting on the deal. So my view is its not about rate, its about flexibilty and speed. If I can get a Line of Credit , that lets me take the money out in small chunks paying the interest only on funds taken out, thats much better than a low interest rate loan that I need to commit to a huge lot all at once, to sit on the shelf. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices $12.00 X 36Mos = $420.00per CPE + loan costs, fees...etc Sounds like to me you lost your good deal to the finance company. I understand that they may be a necessary evil, but I still say that you are far ahead in this game if you need to have something financed to go to your local bank, borrow the money there with all the added benefits of a much more sensible interest rate, you can pay out early and not pay any of the extra interest whereas with the leasing company you can pay out early - - but you still pay all their interest so the point is moot. I do have one lease active - - but it will be the only one I ever do! Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, all of the leases I do are 36 month, $1 buyout. So after 3 years I own the equipment. We figure 50% of the radios will still be functioning, and will then be free. We base our monthly rate on paying about $12 per month per CPE. Travis Microserv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Are you on a lease to own program?? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson *Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2005 5:37 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Canopy buying group prices I don't sell product, and I can't sell any of these as they are leased. Leasing is the only way to make a WISP competitive and grow. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: how much will you sell them for? Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I just received my shipment of 900mhz units last week. I can tell you I paid much, much less than $420 but I am buying 250 units at a time. ;) Travis Microserv Rick Smith wrote: Travis has gotta be full of it! Distributors for Trango previously, when buying in 100 packs, never got prices better than 420... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [WISPA] BPL Announcement in Texas
Now also remember all the hams who are really pissed off with a lot of the BPL technology. It sends noise all over the shortwave bands. The FCC has turned a blind eye to this with the current administration and the desire to push broadband to the masses. I expect that hams will start to exercise their rights to 1000 watts of power which will blow any BPL based on those systems off the air, then the police will get involved in federal matters because some whiner in the neighborhood will blame the ham who is legally licensed to use the frequencies, is messing with their internet. Being that this is in the shortwave bands it also has international treaty implications as far as interference. Yes Tom I agree with you it is a risky business, Motorola and their Canopy BPL hybrid seems to have avoided all of these pitfalls, I guess it helps when a lot of your engineering staff are licensed hams. The BPL story will get ugly before it becomes successful, if any of your are interested, pop over to the ARRL site www.arrl.org and see what the hams are doing to fight this technology. Hams are not against broadband but they are against being interfered with when they have licensed spectrum being polluted by unlicensed gear. The unfortunate problem is the old adage of the benefit to the masses, hams are outnumbered by internet users (and powerful utility company money). Thank You, Brian Webster N2KGC -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] BPL Announcement in Texas And maybe, the temporary FCC experimental license which temporarilly has allowed BPL today, will be allowed to continue to exist? Or not? Still a risky investment, until BPL has been given a perminiate license to exist. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 1:58 PM Subject: [WISPA] BPL Announcement in Texas Posted from the Monday edition of www.dallasnews.xom, see links below and at end of story--Tom, WW5L http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-txu_19bus.ART.Sta te.Edition3.bf6a1c.html TXU grid to carry Internet service New partner to offer broadband connection using power lines 08:10 AM CST on Monday, December 19, 2005 By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News A couple million Texans may soon be able to get their Internet broadband service by plugging into their electrical outlets. A Maryland company is teaming up with TXU Electric Delivery to offer North Texas consumers Internet broadband service over TXU's electric lines. In a deal to be announced today, TXU will pay about $150 million over 10 years for an ownership stake in Current Communications Group Inc., which will turn TXU's transmission system into a smart electricity grid. In turn, Current plans to offer broadband service over TXU's lines. Current Communications uses broadband over power lines, or BPL technology, to hook up customers to the Internet using the electrical outlets in homes. BPL has been touted as a cheaper, more efficient way to get broadband service to customers who aren't easily reached with cable companies' service or DSL service from telephone companies, or wireless service from a cellular phone company or wireless broadband company. However, BPL also competes head-to-head with established broadband providers, as Current is doing in Cincinnati, where it partners with electricity provider Cinergy Corp. As it plans for TXU, Current is building a network atop Cinergy's system to help Cinergy keep track of its power grid. TXU and Current will begin designing the network that will overlay TXU's electric distribution system. Construction is expected to begin in the first half of 2006, with the first BPL service for consumers not expected before the second half of the year. Current Communications' BPL network will cover about 2 million homes and businesses in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and other Texas cities, traversing the majority of TXU Electric Delivery's service area, the companies said. TXU Energy, Reliant and other retailers obtain power over TXU Electric Delivery's grid. With the consumer application not coming until later, TXU and Current officials touted the smart-grid functions, which will allow TXU to monitor its widespread system. TXU Electric Delivery, a part of TXU Corp. and formerly called Oncor, operates more than 14,000 miles of transmission lines and 100,000 miles of distribution lines taking electricity to 3 million customers. Current's BPL solution is a critical enabler of our mission to dramatically improve the way we deliver electricity, TXU Electric Delivery chairman and chief executive Tom Baker said. BPL will enable us to respond more quickly and efficiently to outages of all magnitudes, manage our distribution network more proactively and further
Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato
Anyone think Skypilot will be RIP? Tom DeReggi wrote: To my knowledge just SkyPilot. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 8:06 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Does anyone else even make product that takes care of FCC new power rules? Navini, which has its own share of problems, for starters, dont believe everything their website tells you! Respectfully, Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Its always disappointing to hear news of a company in the wireless space shutting down. It reflects poorly on the industry, expecially when its a manufacture of a product that has many technical acheivements such as Vivato.I look at wireless gear, like people, each with their own personality and unique traits, and the world is better off with multiple product personalitiesas the world is with multiple people personalities.I wish Vivato and its affiliates the best in getting through this process. I guess that most likely, some big name brand wireless company will buy the assets and keep the technology alive, as it does have unique capabilty. I'll also say, its probably Vivatos own fault, based on their poor decission to over value their product and try and get $10,000 for a wifi AP, in a world full of tough competitors. The technology very well may survivebased on intellectual property that likely will get bought for a fraction of itsoriginal cost. At the end of the day, creditors get screwed, and it becomes an example that incourages investors in our wireless space to second guess their investment strategies. And I feel for WISPs that chose Vivato, who are likely going to be in a position of significant risk and cost moving forward.Does anyone else even make product that takes care of FCC new power rules? Other than maybe SkyPilot? I don't use Vivato, so it does not directly effect me, but indirectly when the industry is effected, it effects us all.For example, its Vivato that encourages manufacturers to start to make Smart antennas to compete with Vivato. That market pressure no longer exists without Vivato. Strategically it does buy more time for WiFi WISPs to consider what they will do on their networks to survive the potential candidates that would use equipment that supported the new higher power rules. This is also a lesson for us all. Its says that technology does not guarantee survival, a realisticbusiness plan and reachingits goals does. PS. Glad I chose Trango :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: [WISPA] RIP Vivato Another one bytes the dust http://www.vivato.net/ Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 "Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?
Hi, We have used a Terabridge 5345 (now Proxim) and have been very happy. 45mbps full duplex, 10/100 ethernet, external antenna connectors, web and snmp management, 2ms latency (even at full load), etc. The 5345 is 5.3ghz and the 5845 is 5.8ghz. The only issue will be the price... brand new they are around $9k plus antennas. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I need some feedback from the collective. I am looking for a backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?
For around $1000 a month I think you can get a 1 gbps wireless link from Gigabeam, that would work for that distance I think. Atlas has been working great for us, using 5.3 for that short distance, you likely can get the full 54 mbps. We are getting about 36 mbps throughout for a 14 mile link we have live. But then again that does not meet the spec you are asking for of 50mbps full duplex. You probably can use one of the Tsunami radios that bond several 5.3 channels, or the YDI ElinkIIs that I think use double channels (FDD). None of these will give you the FULL 50 mbps Full duplex you are asking for though. I think they peak out around 30 mbps full Duplex real throughput. Because your range is so close, maybe you should jump up to 23 Ghz? Although you probably can't pull that off for 8 grand. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:08 AM Subject: [WISPA] Good Backhaul? I need some feedback from the collective. I am looking for a backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?
Travis, That is the one I was referring to (when I reference YDI ElinkII or was it CX) before it evolved to the current product line. Are you getting full 45 mbps? I heard you could only get around 30 mbps real thoughput. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Backhaul? Hi, We have used a Terabridge 5345 (now Proxim) and have been very happy. 45mbps full duplex, 10/100 ethernet, external antenna connectors, web and snmp management, 2ms latency (even at full load), etc. The 5345 is 5.3ghz and the 5845 is 5.8ghz. The only issue will be the price... brand new they are around $9k plus antennas. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: I need some feedback from the collective. I am looking for a backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Good Backhaul?
Why not a laser? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:09 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject:[WISPA] Good Backhaul? I need some feedback from the collective. I am looking for a backhaul radio link for my main tower. 5.8 Ghz is fully utilized at this location. It is only a 1500 foot shot. I would like at least 50 meg full or 100 meg half duplex. I would like this solution to be under $8K or so. 5.3 Ghz is pretty open here. Does a solution exist? I can lay fiber for about $12K or so. I am considering doing that but I think laying fiber for my main connection when I am a fixed broadband wireless provider sends the wrong message to my potential customers when Charter is going all over town selling fiber connections. I welcome your feedback. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
