Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Rick Smith
Tom, I may be mistaken but wasn't that the case where Charles was 
discussing the licensed option which required a minimum 6' dish ?


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,
 
Your point is well demonstrated, except
 

6' Dish: +34 dBi
 
Not sure what dishes you are talking about, You can get 34 dbi out of 
an Andrews 3 footer.

With 6 foot you should be able to get  37 dbi.
 
 
Tom DeReggi

RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 


- Original Message -
*From:* Charles Wu mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:25 PM
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options


The Spectra would be around $20k with external antennas. A

licensed product is going to be at least that, and probably $5k more.
Sit back and actually think for a second about this comparison,
and you'll realize that a similarly performing unlicensed
solution will cost MUCH MORE (and be much riskier) relative to the
licensed solution
 
The main difference is that the spectra requires 30 Mhz of

ABSOLUTELY CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the vertical and horizontal
polarities (150 Mb Air Rate transmits on V-pol  150 Mb Air
Rate transmits on H-pol -- cut off 1 polarity, you halve throughput)
 
In addition, the Rx sensitivity of the Spectra at the 300 Mb data

rate (256 QAM) is -59 dB with an output power of +18 (so you'll
need HUGE dishes to guarantee the link budget)
 
So, lets do a theoretical path calc / comparison (15 miles)
 
11 Ghz Licensed Link (100 Mb Full Duplex)

Rx Sensitivity: -76 dBm
Tx Power: +21 dBm
4' Dish: +39 dBi
 
Expected RSSI: -42.9 (30 dB of fade margin = ROCK SOLID LINK =)
 
5 GHz Spectra

Rx Sensitivity: -59 dB
Tx Power: +18
6' Dish: +34 dBi
 
Expected RSSI: -49.4 (~10 dB of fade margin w/ 2' more of each dish)
 
Then there's all sort of real-world performance issues that

occur with higher-order modulation schemes and license-exempt
operation
 
-Charles
 


---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com http://www.winog.com/

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2006 10:03 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:

You don't need licensed to high throughput backhaul. For example, 
Orthogon's Spectra provides 300Mbps aggregate at a price point generally 
Less than 45Mbps licensed.
   



Hi Matt,

I am curious to see where / what you got those numbers for the Orthogon
Spectra?

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options



-Matt

Bobby Burrow wrote:

 

I'm looking at moving to a licensed solution to increase throughput 
across one of out backhaul links that spans 5 hops. Distances between 
hops range anywhere from 7 to 19 miles.


We are currently using the dual nstreme Mikrotik solution and it is 
working very well, however the WRAP/RB532 solutions are only yielding 
~25Mb per hop.


Can anyone recommend a licensed radio manufacturer that should net us 
50Mb-100Mb per hop?


Thanks,

Bobby Burrow
East Texas Rural Net
www.etxrn.com




   



 



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta

Yes, but it will deliver easily the speed requested in the original post.

-Matt

Charles Wu wrote:


But a Spectra WILL NOT DELIVER anything close to 300 Mbps of REAL TCP
THROUGHPUT from 9-16 miles (not even half duplex)

And that's even assuming 30 Mhz of clean spectrum ( +25 dB SNR) in BOTH V 
H polarities

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of G.Villarini
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 7:54 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options


Charles,

Ill chime in here cause you can get a Spectra for $15 to $16k wheras a
Licensed link goes from $20k and up...

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.273.4143

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:46 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

 


You don't need licensed to high throughput backhaul. For example,
Orthogon's Spectra provides 300Mbps aggregate at a price point generally 
Less than 45Mbps licensed.
   



Hi Matt,

I am curious to see where / what you got those numbers for the Orthogon
Spectra?

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options



-Matt

Bobby Burrow wrote:

 


I'm looking at moving to a licensed solution to increase throughput
across one of out backhaul links that spans 5 hops. Distances between 
hops range anywhere from 7 to 19 miles.


We are currently using the dual nstreme Mikrotik solution and it is
working very well, however the WRAP/RB532 solutions are only yielding 
~25Mb per hop.


Can anyone recommend a licensed radio manufacturer that should net us
50Mb-100Mb per hop?

Thanks,

Bobby Burrow
East Texas Rural Net
www.etxrn.com




   



 



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Re: [WISPA] Second National Summit for Community Wireless Networks

2006-03-20 Thread Dawn

V,

This would be an interesting conference since it is;
a. in your back yard
b. a weekend conference
c. reasonably priced
d. interesting and well known list of speakers

Regards,
Dawn


Dawn wrote:


All,

Is anyone on the list going to attend this event? It should be an
interesting one.

http://www.cuwireless.net/summit

Regards,
Dawn
---
---



---
---

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[WISPA] Looking for Internet Access (Ontario, Canada)

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf








Can anyone provide high-speed Internet
access to:



Old Hwy#2, Trenton, Quinte
  West, Ontario K8V 5P5



If so, reply and I will forward your information.






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RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Charles Wu
Title: Message



snip
Charles,

Your point is well demonstrated, 
except


6' 
Dish: +34 dBi

Not sure what dishes you 
are talking about, You can get 34 dbi out of an Andrews 3 footer. 

With 6 foot you should be able to get  37 
dbi.

/snip

Lol -- 
you're right

after 
not sleeping for a week -- I guess I'm allowed to make a mistake 
wink

-Charles
---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 
13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Tom DeReggiSent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:10 PMTo: 
  WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
  options
  
  
  Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
  Broadband
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Charles Wu 
To: 'WISPA General List' 
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:25 
PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
options

The Spectra would be around $20k with 
external antennas. A licensed product is going to be at least that, and 
probably $5k more.
Sit back and actually think for a second about this 
comparison, and you'll realize thata similarly 
performing"unlicensed" solution will cost MUCHMORE (and be much 
riskier)relative to the licensed solution

The main difference is that the spectra requires 30 Mhz of ABSOLUTELY 
CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the vertical and horizontal polarities (150 Mb "Air 
Rate" transmits on V-pol  150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on H-pol -- cut 
off 1 polarity, you halve throughput)

In 
addition, the Rx sensitivity of the Spectra at the 300 Mb data rate (256 
QAM) is -59 dB with an output power of +18 (so you'll need HUGE dishes to 
guarantee the link budget)

So, lets do a "theoretical" path calc / comparison (15 
miles)

11 
Ghz Licensed Link (100 Mb Full Duplex)
Rx 
Sensitivity: -76 dBm
Tx 
Power: +21 dBm
4' 
Dish: +39 dBi

Expected RSSI: -42.9 (30 dB of fade margin= ROCK SOLID LINK 
=)

5 
GHz Spectra
Rx 
Sensitivity: -59 dB
Tx 
Power: +18
6' 
Dish: +34 dBi

Expected RSSI: -49.4 (~10 dB of fade margin w/ 2' more of each 
dish)

Then there's all sort of "real-world" performance issues that occur 
with higher-order modulation schemes and license-exempt 
operation

-Charles

---WiNOG Austin, 
TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com 


  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Travis JohnsonSent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:03 
  PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] 
  Licensed Backhaul 
  optionsTravisMicroservCharles Wu 
  wrote: 
  You don't need licensed to high throughput backhaul. For example, 
Orthogon's Spectra provides 300Mbps aggregate at a price point generally 
Less than 45Mbps licensed.

Hi Matt,

I am curious to see where / what you got those numbers for the Orthogon
Spectra?

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options



-Matt

Bobby Burrow wrote:

  
I'm looking at moving to a licensed solution to increase throughput 
across one of out backhaul links that spans 5 hops. Distances between 
hops range anywhere from 7 to 19 miles.

We are currently using the dual nstreme Mikrotik solution and it is 
working very well, however the WRAP/RB532 solutions are only yielding 
~25Mb per hop.

Can anyone recommend a licensed radio manufacturer that should net us 
50Mb-100Mb per hop?

Thanks,

Bobby Burrow
East Texas Rural Net
www.etxrn.com


 


  



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RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Charles Wu
Title: Message



Charles you make a good point, but Im going to throw a but in 
here: 

but 
the Orthogon / Canopy 300 radios will run also run at: 


64 
QAM .92 dual -62 receive 
sensitivity 
+18 output (252.9 
throughput)
64 
QAM .75 dual -68 receive 
sensitivity 
+18 output (206.7 throughput)
16 
QAM .87 dual -71 receive 
sensitivity 
+20 output (160.8 throughput) 


In an attenuated lab setup, running 
TCP (w/ Iperf), we see the following results with the Spectra @ the 300 Mbps 
data rate

1 Way TCP Max: 143 Mbps
2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 98.1 / 105 
Mbps

Based on this data (and adding in timing degradation 
that a link would sustain when traveling over a longer distance), in order to 
acheive true "wire-speed" full-duplex 100 Mb Ethernet on the radio, I would 
guess that you would need to maintain the full-order modulation in order to keep 
the "apples-to-apples" comparison with a licensed 100 Mb radio link (e.g., 
Ceragon, Dragonwave, MNI).

Full list can be found in the release notes and if you do the math 
on those modulations you can get some very good performance. I do agree 
with you that the licensed links would make more sense, buthanging4 
foot dishes on towers becomes a very expensive task or if you have to do a 
non-penetrating roof mount skid, the cost difference between the sleds is big. 
So we have to take in more than the cost of the radios, licenses, leases 
and dishes but put together the total cost because if you are hanging BIG dishes 
youre going to dig deeper into your pocket. 

if he has clean spectrum to "spare" and doesn't need 
full 100 Mb wire speed performance, than the Spectra does make more economical 
sense -- but I would argue that you would need similarly (if not larger) sized 
dishes on the Spectra (4'  6' dishes) due to 5 GHz spectrum congestion 
"risks" and the need/desire to minimize Rf 
beamwidths

-Charles
-Original 
Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dustin 
JurmanSent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 5:47 PMTo: 'WISPA 
General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
options

  
  
  
  Dustin 
  Jurman
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles WuSent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:26 
  PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
  options
  
  
  The Spectra would be around $20k with external 
  antennas. A licensed product is going to be at least that, and probably $5k 
  more.
  
  Sit back and actually 
  think for a second about this comparison, and you'll realize thata 
  similarly performing"unlicensed" solution will cost MUCHMORE (and 
  be much riskier)relative to the licensed 
  solution
  
  
  
  The main difference 
  is that the spectra requires 30 Mhz of ABSOLUTELY CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the 
  vertical and horizontal polarities (150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on V-pol  
  150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on H-pol -- cut off 1 polarity, you halve 
  throughput)
  
  
  
  In addition, the Rx 
  sensitivity of the Spectra at the 300 Mb data rate (256 QAM) is -59 dB with an 
  output power of +18 (so you'll need HUGE dishes to guarantee the link 
  budget)
  
  
  
  So, lets do a 
  "theoretical" path calc / comparison (15 
  miles)
  
  
  
  11 Ghz Licensed Link 
  (100 Mb Full Duplex)
  
  Rx Sensitivity: -76 
  dBm
  
  Tx Power: +21 
  dBm
  
  4' Dish: +39 
  dBi
  
  
  
  Expected RSSI: -42.9 
  (30 dB of fade margin= ROCK SOLID LINK 
  =)
  
  
  
  5 GHz 
  Spectra
  
  Rx Sensitivity: -59 
  dB
  
  Tx Power: 
  +18
  
  6' Dish: +34 
  dBi
  
  
  
  Expected RSSI: -49.4 
  (~10 dB of fade margin w/ 2' more of each 
  dish)
  
  
  
  Then there's all sort 
  of "real-world" performance issues that occur with higher-order modulation 
  schemes and license-exempt operation
  
  
  
  -Charles
  
  
  ---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com 
  
  
-Original 
Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis JohnsonSent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:03 
PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
options
TravisMicroservCharles Wu wrote: 

You don't need licensed to high throughput backhaul. For example, Orthogon's Spectra provides 300Mbps aggregate at a price point generally Less than 45Mbps licensed. Hi Matt,I am curious to see where / what you got those numbers for the OrthogonSpectra?-Charles---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Matt LiottaSent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:28 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options-MattBobby Burrow wrote: 
I'm looking at moving to a licensed solution to increase throughput across one of out backhaul links that spans 5 hops. Distances between hops range anywhere from 7 to 19 

Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta

Charles Wu wrote:

In an attenuated lab setup, running TCP (w/ Iperf), we see the 
following results with the Spectra @ the 300 Mbps data rate


 


1 Way TCP Max: 143 Mbps

2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 98.1 / 105 Mbps



What TCP settings did you use to achieve the above?

-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Charles Wu
We are running FreeBSD boxes w/ Gigabit Ethernet NICs
I don't know all the details, since I'm not the technical guy running the
tests, but I believe we are using standard 1500-byte packets w/ standard
MTUs, etc

On a 100 Mb FastE link (benchmark) we get the following

1 Way TCP Max: 94.0 Mbps
2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 92.7 / 92.4 Mbps

On a GiGE link, due to Linux kernal processing issues, we max out at about
400 Mbps of raw TCP throughput

-Charles



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options


Charles Wu wrote:

 In an attenuated lab setup, running TCP (w/ Iperf), we see the
 following results with the Spectra @ the 300 Mbps data rate

  

 1 Way TCP Max: 143 Mbps

 2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 98.1 / 105 Mbps


What TCP settings did you use to achieve the above?

-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread G.Villarini
Technical guy  I think Anton is more of a Rocket Scientist ... jeje

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.273.4143


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 1:56 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

We are running FreeBSD boxes w/ Gigabit Ethernet NICs
I don't know all the details, since I'm not the technical guy running the
tests, but I believe we are using standard 1500-byte packets w/ standard
MTUs, etc

On a 100 Mb FastE link (benchmark) we get the following

1 Way TCP Max: 94.0 Mbps
2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 92.7 / 92.4 Mbps

On a GiGE link, due to Linux kernal processing issues, we max out at about
400 Mbps of raw TCP throughput

-Charles



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options


Charles Wu wrote:

 In an attenuated lab setup, running TCP (w/ Iperf), we see the
 following results with the Spectra @ the 300 Mbps data rate

  

 1 Way TCP Max: 143 Mbps

 2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 98.1 / 105 Mbps


What TCP settings did you use to achieve the above?

-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta
Not sure what Linux kernel issues have to due with a FreeBSB box, but I 
am more interested in whether the following TCP settings are enabled.


RFC 2018 SACK
RFC 896 Nagle
RFC 3168 ECN
RFC 1323 Time stamping and window scaling

It is very difficult to achieve max throughput of a TCP link without at 
least SACK and window scaling enabled.


-Matt

Charles Wu wrote:


We are running FreeBSD boxes w/ Gigabit Ethernet NICs
I don't know all the details, since I'm not the technical guy running the
tests, but I believe we are using standard 1500-byte packets w/ standard
MTUs, etc

On a 100 Mb FastE link (benchmark) we get the following

1 Way TCP Max: 94.0 Mbps
2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 92.7 / 92.4 Mbps

On a GiGE link, due to Linux kernal processing issues, we max out at about
400 Mbps of raw TCP throughput

-Charles



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options


Charles Wu wrote:

 


In an attenuated lab setup, running TCP (w/ Iperf), we see the
following results with the Spectra @ the 300 Mbps data rate



1 Way TCP Max: 143 Mbps

2 Way BiDirectional TCP Max: 98.1 / 105 Mbps


   


What TCP settings did you use to achieve the above?

-Matt

 



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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Internet Access (Ontario, Canada)

2006-03-20 Thread Carl A Jeptha




Who is looking we are still trying to expand into that area. We are in
Colborne now.
You have a Good Day now,


Carl A Jeptha
http://www.airnet.ca
office 905 349-2084
Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900
skype cajeptha



Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Can anyone
provide high-speed Internet
access to:
  
  Old
Hwy#2, Trenton, Quinte West, Ontario
  K8V 5P5


  If so, reply and I will forward
your information.
  
  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 17/03/2006
  



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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Tom DeReggi
Title: Message



Dustin,

You have showed how using both Pols, can reduce the 
sensitivity requirements of the radio, able to extend link distance, and likely 
aid in NLOS(that could degrade signal) as well.
However, when Tackling noise, that doesn't really 
help, does it? As the sensitivity drops, that RSSI level also gets closer to the 
noise floor, in many cases cancelling out the benefit.

So my question to you is have you seen 
theDual Pol config help combat the noise? Meaning... Allowing the radio to 
operate closer to the noise floor at high modulations. Maybe by rebuilding the 
wave by comparing them?For example, Proxim's circular pol solution, often 
allows it to operate closer to the noise floor because if it. 

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dustin 
  Jurman 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:47 
PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
  options
  
  
  Charles you make a 
  good point, but I’m going to throw a “but” in here: 
  
  
  but the 
  Orthogon / Canopy 300 radio’s will run also run at: 
  
  
  64 QAM .92 dual 
  -62 receive 
  sensitivity 
  +18 output (252.9 
  throughput)
  64 QAM .75 
  dual -68 receive 
  sensitivity 
  +18 output (206.7 throughput)
  16 QAM .87 
  dual -71 receive 
  sensitivity 
  +20 output (160.8 throughput) 
  
  
  Full list can be 
  found in the release notes and if you do the math on those modulations you can 
  get some very good performance. I do agree with you that the licensed 
  links would make more sense, but hanging 4 foot dishes on towers becomes a 
  very expensive task or if you have to do a non-penetrating roof mount skid, 
  the cost difference between the sleds is big. So we have to take in more 
  than the cost of the radio’s, licenses, leases and dishes but put together the 
  total cost because if you are hanging BIG dishes you’re going to dig deeper 
  into your pocket. 
  
  Sorry I missed you at 
  the show, I’m on baby watch so when she saw wireless beer and gear she called 
  foul and took away my kitchen pass L.
  
  Dustin 
  Jurman
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles WuSent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:26 
  PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
  options
  
  
  The Spectra would be around $20k with external 
  antennas. A licensed product is going to be at least that, and probably $5k 
  more.
  
  Sit back and actually 
  think for a second about this comparison, and you'll realize thata 
  similarly performing"unlicensed" solution will cost MUCHMORE (and 
  be much riskier)relative to the licensed 
  solution
  
  
  
  The main difference 
  is that the spectra requires 30 Mhz of ABSOLUTELY CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the 
  vertical and horizontal polarities (150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on V-pol  
  150 Mb "Air Rate" transmits on H-pol -- cut off 1 polarity, you halve 
  throughput)
  
  
  
  In addition, the Rx 
  sensitivity of the Spectra at the 300 Mb data rate (256 QAM) is -59 dB with an 
  output power of +18 (so you'll need HUGE dishes to guarantee the link 
  budget)
  
  
  
  So, lets do a 
  "theoretical" path calc / comparison (15 
  miles)
  
  
  
  11 Ghz Licensed Link 
  (100 Mb Full Duplex)
  
  Rx Sensitivity: -76 
  dBm
  
  Tx Power: +21 
  dBm
  
  4' Dish: +39 
  dBi
  
  
  
  Expected RSSI: -42.9 
  (30 dB of fade margin= ROCK SOLID LINK 
  =)
  
  
  
  5 GHz 
  Spectra
  
  Rx Sensitivity: -59 
  dB
  
  Tx Power: 
  +18
  
  6' Dish: +34 
  dBi
  
  
  
  Expected RSSI: -49.4 
  (~10 dB of fade margin w/ 2' more of each 
  dish)
  
  
  
  Then there's all sort 
  of "real-world" performance issues that occur with higher-order modulation 
  schemes and license-exempt operation
  
  
  
  -Charles
  
  
  ---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com 
  
  
-Original 
Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis JohnsonSent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:03 
PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
options
TravisMicroservCharles Wu wrote: 

You don't need licensed to high throughput backhaul. For example, Orthogon's Spectra provides 300Mbps aggregate at a price point generally Less than 45Mbps licensed. Hi Matt,I am curious to see where / what you got those numbers for the OrthogonSpectra?-Charles---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Matt LiottaSent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:28 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options-MattBobby Burrow wrote: 
I'm looking at moving to a licensed solution to increase throughput across one of out backhaul links that spans 5 hops. Distances 

RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Dustin Jurman
Title: Message








Actually using both poles increases the
sensitivity of the radio at least by the way the Orthogon/Canopy 300s
operate when in single payload. 



The dual payload option decouples this
feature and you really have two radios sending information on the same dish,
one in H and one in V. If you look at the release notes any time the
radios are in dual payload you need more receive sensitivity then in
single payload. (makes sense right?) Only the Spectra/Canopy300s
operate in dual payload mode. 



The Gemini/Moto 60s operate in
single payload all the time giving them a very high system gain by allowing
them to combine both poles into a single signal for processing. 



So to answer your question, Yes dual pole
can combat noise by increasing system gain really just creating more C/I. A
while ago I told you that I was testing some of the new Gabriel High
Performance dishes. When I get some time I have some screen shots that Ill
post that I think youll find very interesting. 



Dustin 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:52
PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed
Backhaul options







Dustin,











You have showed how using both Pols,
can reduce the sensitivity requirements of the radio, able to extend link
distance, and likely aid in NLOS(that could degrade signal) as well.





However, when Tackling noise, that
doesn't really help, does it? As the sensitivity drops, that RSSI level also
gets closer to the noise floor, in many cases cancelling out the benefit.











So my question to you is have
you seen theDual Pol config help combat the noise? Meaning... Allowing
the radio to operate closer to the noise floor at high modulations. Maybe by
rebuilding the wave by comparing them?For example, Proxim's circular pol
solution, often allows it to operate closer to the noise floor because if it. 











Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



















- Original Message - 





From: Dustin Jurman






To: 'WISPA General List' 





Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:47 PM





Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options









Charles you make a good point, but
Im going to throw a but in here: 



but the Orthogon / Canopy 300
radios will run also run at: 



64 QAM .92 dual
-62 receive
sensitivity
+18 output (252.9 throughput)

64 QAM .75
dual -68 receive
sensitivity
+18 output (206.7 throughput)

16 QAM .87 dual
-71 receive
sensitivity
+20 output (160.8 throughput) 



Full list can be found in the release
notes and if you do the math on those modulations you can get some very good
performance. I do agree with you that the licensed links would make more
sense, but hanging 4 foot dishes on towers becomes a very expensive task or if
you have to do a non-penetrating roof mount skid, the cost difference between
the sleds is big. So we have to take in more than the cost of the radios,
licenses, leases and dishes but put together the total cost because if you are
hanging BIG dishes youre going to dig deeper into your pocket. 



Sorry I missed you at the show, Im
on baby watch so when she saw wireless beer and gear she called foul and took
away my kitchen pass L.



Dustin Jurman













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Charles Wu
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006
5:26 PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed
Backhaul options







The Spectra would be around $20k with external
antennas. A licensed product is going to be at least that, and probably $5k
more.





Sit back and actually think for a second
about this comparison, and you'll realize thata similarly
performingunlicensed solution will cost MUCHMORE (and
be much riskier)relative to the licensed solution











The main difference is that the spectra
requires 30 Mhz of ABSOLUTELY CLEAN SPECTRUM in both the vertical and
horizontal polarities (150 Mb Air Rate transmits on V-pol  150
Mb Air Rate transmits on H-pol -- cut off 1 polarity, you halve
throughput)











In addition, the Rx sensitivity of the
Spectra at the 300 Mb data rate (256 QAM) is -59 dB with an output power of +18
(so you'll need HUGE dishes to guarantee the link budget)











So, lets do a theoretical path
calc / comparison (15 miles)











11 Ghz Licensed Link (100 Mb Full Duplex)





Rx Sensitivity: -76 dBm





Tx Power: +21 dBm





4' Dish: +39 dBi











Expected RSSI: -42.9 (30 dB of fade
margin= ROCK SOLID LINK =)











5 GHz Spectra





Rx Sensitivity: -59 dB





Tx Power: +18





6' Dish: +34 dBi











Expected RSSI: -49.4 (~10 dB of fade
margin w/ 2' more of each dish)











Then there's all sort of
real-world performance issues that occur with higher-order
modulation schemes and license-exempt operation











-Charles









---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 

RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Charles Wu
Hi Matt,

To answer your questions from my relatively limited sales  marketing
point of view

RFC 2018 SACK

Yes it is enabled -- if you purchase a copy of our report, it shows the
exact system parameters configured on the box (basically, sysctl -a | grep
tcp)

RFC 896 Nagle

Can you please explain how this is applicable in modern-day implementations
of TCP?  From my limited understanding, Nagle is a relic of the past (been
replaced by TCP Westwood, etc)

RFC 3168 ECN

Yes, the bit is turned on, but can you please explain how this is applicable
for a transparent layer-2 bridging scenario?


RFC 1323 TCP Extensions for High Performance

Yes

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 


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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Matt Liotta

Charles Wu wrote:


Can you please explain how this is applicable in modern-day implementations
of TCP?  From my limited understanding, Nagle is a relic of the past (been
replaced by TCP Westwood, etc)

 

Nagle is very old circa 1984 I believe, but it hasn't really be 
replaced. Many folks would choose to use other algorithms for queuing in 
high throughput links, but generally nagle is on by default. Clearly, 
some form of queuing is desirable for maximum throughput of small 
packets, but more interactive applications are hurt by queuing e.g. 
VoIP. Therefore, it is useful to see what throughput is obtained with 
and without the setting on if you are considering using the radio pair 
for VoIP.



Yes, the bit is turned on, but can you please explain how this is applicable
for a transparent layer-2 bridging scenario?

 

It isn't applicable for a layer-2 bridging scenario. However, it can 
affect layer-3 devices on either side of the bridge when doing the 
throughput test, which may have an impact on the test. In my experience, 
it does not.


-Matt
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[WISPA] More commerce committee stuff

2006-03-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

http://commerce.senate.gov/archive.spectrumreform031406.ram

Interesting words at least.  This may be the most amazing time for the wisp 
industry, ever.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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[WISPA] Stupid Trango ?

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Can an EXT be used as a cpe only, without the dish?

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul options

2006-03-20 Thread Tom DeReggi
Title: Message



Dustin,

I'd like to see those screen shots.

In case interested...

I had reviewed the spec sheet of Andrews 3 ft, 
Gabriel 2ft, 2ftHQ, 4ft, 4ft HQand compared.
Understanding that this is theory based on spec 
sheets being accurate, this was my finding...

2ft HQ dish did great (best of 3)to prevent 
colocation interference.
However, 4ft dish (regular) did muchbetter at 
preventingfront interference.
However, Andrews 3ft, came pretty darn close to the 
performance of 4ft dish, at 3ft ease, price, and windload.
Of course 4ft HQ dish beat them all in all 
categories, but at a hefty price and windload.

Analyzing three sites in question, each site was 
better off with a different one of the antennas based on the need of the 
site.
Site 1: The 3ft, needed high gain, some noise in 
front, but no other antennas on the roof.
Site 2: The 2ft HQ, lots of colocation noise, but 
landlord not allow 4ft dish. (used 2ft over 3 ft, as msot noise was colocation 
based)
Site 3: The 4ft HQ, lots of colocation noise, 
4ft mounting OK, lots noise in front, and every db counts.

I'm going to put them to the test next week when 
they arrive.

Here were actual compulations from spec sheets, 
(averaged data).

Degrees are number of degrees off center, not total 
beamwidth. 

2ft compared to 2ft HQ

aboutsame until...-60 deg off center,4 db more for HQ -90 deg off 
center, 12 db more for HQ.-180 deg off center, 9 db more for HQ

summary: no benefit to combat front end noise. Great for colocations noise, 
and limited antenna seperation.

4 ft compared to 2 ft HQ

4 ft much better than 2ftHQ till 58 deg. 

at 7 deg, 4ft 9 deg betterat 40 deg, 4ft 5 deg better

at 58 deg both antennas are equal at -32 isolation.

at 90 deg, 2ftHQ -40 db isolation, 8 db better than 4ftat 180 deg, 
2ftHQ -46db isolation, 4 db better than 4ft

Summary: 4 ft better for front end interference.however, 2ftHQ still 
significantly better for colocation noise.

Andrews 3 ft - 4ft

at 7 deg, 4ft 9 db better than Andrewsat 10 deg, 4 ft 5 db better than 
andrewsat 20 deg, 4ft 8 db better than andrews

at 40 deg, both about the same at -32db.(steady slope to 90)at 90 
deg, andrews -38, 6 db better than 4 ft.

at 119-180 deg, both at about -42.Summary, 4 ft better for 
front interference (below 35 degrees).however, Andrews has equal colocation 
protection, and better verticle speration, and 4ft dbi, at 3ft ease and 
windload. Andrews 3 ft - 2ft HQ

at 4 degrees, andrews -13, 11 db better than 2ftHQ at 7 deg, about the 
same

at 10 deg, andrews 5 db betterat 12 deg, the sameat 20 deg, andrews 
4 db betterat 40 deg, andrews 3 db better at 90 deg, 2fthq (-40) 2 db 
betterat 180 deg, 2fthq (-46) 4 db better

Andrews 3ft - 4ftHQ

at 3 deg, 4fthq 3 db betterat 7 deg, 4fthq 8db betterat 20 deg, 
4fthq 4 db betterat 40 deg, 4fthq 5 db betterat 72 deg, 4fthq 7 db 
better at 95 deg, 4fthq 15 db better 

Note: It is understood noise will rise with antenna gain, so increased dbi 
should not be considered regarding interference resilience, for side of link 
with interfrence.However, increased dbi will still add benefits on other 
side of link. So a higher gain antenna would still be more beneficial in 
some respects.So a smaller HQ antenna may not help the other side as well as 
the higher gain antenna.


Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dustin 
  Jurman 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:09 
PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
  options
  
  
  Actually using both 
  poles increases the sensitivity of the radio at least by the way the 
  Orthogon/Canopy 300’s operate when in single payload. 
  
  
  The dual payload 
  option decouples this feature and you really have two radio’s sending 
  information on the same dish, one in H and one in V. If you look at the 
  release notes any time the radio’s are in dual payload you need more receive 
  sensitivity then in single payload. (makes sense right?) Only the 
  Spectra/Canopy300’s operate in dual payload mode. 
  
  
  The Gemini/Moto 60’s 
  operate in single payload all the time giving them a very high system gain by 
  allowing them to combine both poles into a single signal for processing. 
  
  
  So to answer your 
  question, Yes dual pole can combat noise by increasing system gain really just 
  creating more C/I. A while ago I told you that I was testing some 
  of the new Gabriel High Performance dishes. When I get some time I have 
  some screen shots that I’ll post that I think you’ll find very 
  interesting. 
  
  Dustin 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:52 
  PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul 
  options
  
  
  Dustin,
  
  
  
  You have showed 
  how using both Pols, can reduce the sensitivity requirements of the radio, 
  able to extend link 

[WISPA] looking for 38 ghz antennas

2006-03-20 Thread G.Villarini








Need a pair of 2 38 ghz antennas, DMC slip fit



thanks



Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143








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[WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Title: Message



Paid my dues this week. How do I join the 
"club"?


Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600
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[WISPA] Just a thought....

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria Proffer



Sooo...who is a 
millionaire today?
I am sure there are 
many.

When I started out 
in this community, it wasBreeze. than Alvarion
Then it was 
Sunstream, now Trango.
It was Bob Dillon, 
now the beastie boys?
The answer is a 
fresnel zone in the wind.

You are my 
brothers/sisters, because you want one thing.

You want to beat the 
POTS, the TELCO, the DSL and the CABLE.

But...what are we to 
do...they, (if we do not have a solution) will suck up our bandwidth...for VoIP, 
IPTV!! GEEZe

Someone told me, 
years ago, that the wISP is a wild intangible. Is that 
true?

All I can say is, 
that after years, I am still here.


Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Title: Message








You cant buy in
Its a boyz club (hehe)











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Victoria
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57
PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Members List





Paid my dues this week. How do I
join the club?



Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com

314-974-5600






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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Title: Message



humm, i did the marine corps, what do you 
do?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff 
LeboeufSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List


You cant buy in 
Its a boyz club (hehe)





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57 
PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: [WISPA] Members 
List

Paid my dues this 
week. How do I join the "club"?

Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600
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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Title: Message








Damn! I thought you just found a way to buy
in! :lol:











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Victoria
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:14
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List





That is not what I meant..

damn, lists.



Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com

314-974-5600









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:02
PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

humm, i did the marine corps, what do you
do?









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff
 Leboeuf
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

You cant buy
in Its a boyz club (hehe)











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Victoria
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57
PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Members List





Paid my dues this week. How do I
join the club?



Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com

314-974-5600






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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Title: Message








I think I remember you! I was in the
Marine Corps! (haha)!











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Victoria
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:02
PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List





humm, i did the marine corps, what do you
do?









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff
 Leboeuf
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

You cant buy
in Its a boyz club (hehe)











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Victoria
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57
PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Members List





Paid my dues this week. How do I
join the club?



Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com

314-974-5600






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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Title: Message



Scriv, Rick?

Ok, I will go home...but please refund my 
$$


Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: 
Monday, March 20, 2006 9:14 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA 
General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

That is not what I meant..
damn, lists.


Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: 
Monday, March 20, 2006 9:02 PMTo: 'WISPA General 
List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

humm, i did the marine corps, what do you 
do?


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff 
LeboeufSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List


You cant buy in 
Its a boyz club (hehe)





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57 
PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: [WISPA] Members 
List

Paid my dues this 
week. How do I join the "club"?

Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600
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Re: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

I hope you are kidding.

Victoria wrote:


Scriv, Rick?
Ok, I will go home...but please refund my $$
Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com http://www.stlouisbroadband.com/
314-974-5600


*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Victoria

*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 9:14 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Members List

That is not what I meant..
damn, lists.
Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com http://www.stlouisbroadband.com/
314-974-5600


*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Victoria

*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 9:02 PM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Members List

humm, i did the marine corps, what do you do?


*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Cliff Leboeuf

*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Members List

You can’t ‘buy’ in… It’s a boyz club… (hehe)



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Victoria

*Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57 PM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* [WISPA] Members List

Paid my dues this week. How do I join the club?

Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com http://www.stlouisbroadband.com/

314-974-5600


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Re: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Bob Moldashel

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:


I think I remember you! I was in the Marine Corps! (haha)!

 







OK  That was inappropriate... I believe an appology is in order 
there Cliff.


BTW:  I will put my money on Victoria anyday...

Hi V!


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Title: Message






From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:38 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List


Victoria,

I shouldnt post to 
list after Ive had a couple of glasses of wine! J

The closest Ive been 
to the Marines is my former brother-in-law. I just couldnt resist replying in 
such a smarta$$ way! It was too easy.

Hope I didnt offend 
you. Just poking fun.

BTW, your website looks 
good! Were you the one working on the Google Map for 
WISPs?

- 
Cliff






From: Victoria 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:27 
PMTo: Cliff LeboeufSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List

USMC? 
When?





From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:23 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List
Damn! I thought you 
just found a way to buy in! :lol:





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:14 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List

That is not what I 
meant..
damn, 
lists.

Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:02 
PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List
humm, i did the marine 
corps, what do you do?




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff LeboeufSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List
You cant buy in 
Its a boyz club (hehe)





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57 
PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: [WISPA] Members 
List

Paid my dues this 
week. How do I join the "club"?

Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600
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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Title: Message



~~Uh~oh~~


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: 
Monday, March 20, 2006 9:46 PMTo: 'Cliff Leboeuf'; 'WISPA General 
List'; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.comSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List




From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:38 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List


Victoria,

I shouldnt post to 
list after Ive had a couple of glasses of wine! J

The closest Ive been 
to the Marines is my former brother-in-law. I just couldnt resist replying in 
such a smarta$$ way! It was too easy.

Hope I didnt offend 
you. Just poking fun.

BTW, your website looks 
good! Were you the one working on the Google Map for 
WISPs?

- 
Cliff






From: Victoria 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:27 
PMTo: Cliff LeboeufSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List

USMC? 
When?





From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:23 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List
Damn! I thought you 
just found a way to buy in! :lol:





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:14 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List

That is not what I 
meant..
damn, 
lists.

Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:02 
PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List
humm, i did the marine 
corps, what do you do?




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff LeboeufSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:37 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Members 
List
You cant buy in 
Its a boyz club (hehe)





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:57 
PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: [WISPA] Members 
List

Paid my dues this 
week. How do I join the "club"?

Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600
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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Sure Bob, if you think so, consider it done. If 'V' thinks I need to do
more, all she needs to do is say so as no offense was intended!

My comment was in jest and followed her other post where she
acknowledged what she 'opened' herself up too!

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Members List

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

 I think I remember you! I was in the Marine Corps! (haha)!

  






OK  That was inappropriate... I believe an appology is in order 
there Cliff.

BTW:  I will put my money on Victoria anyday...

Hi V!


-B-

-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
Now I am LMAO...
ty Bob.

~V~ 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

Sure Bob, if you think so, consider it done. If 'V' thinks I need to do
more, all she needs to do is say so as no offense was intended!

My comment was in jest and followed her other post where she acknowledged
what she 'opened' herself up too!

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Members List

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

 I think I remember you! I was in the Marine Corps! (haha)!

  






OK  That was inappropriate... I believe an appology is in order
there Cliff.

BTW:  I will put my money on Victoria anyday...

Hi V!


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Joe Laura
Cliff, You sure have a way for words. 
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message - 
From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List


Sure Bob, if you think so, consider it done. If 'V' thinks I need to do
more, all she needs to do is say so as no offense was intended!

My comment was in jest and followed her other post where she
acknowledged what she 'opened' herself up too!

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Members List

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

 I think I remember you! I was in the Marine Corps! (haha)!

  






OK  That was inappropriate... I believe an appology is in order 
there Cliff.

BTW:  I will put my money on Victoria anyday...

Hi V!


-B-

-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Joe,

Just a naive coonass trying to fight his way out of a wet paper bag with
a scalled St. Louis cat on a slow night.

I think I will stop before I get all scratched up!

Later,
- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Laura
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Members List

Cliff, You sure have a way for words. 
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message - 
From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List


Sure Bob, if you think so, consider it done. If 'V' thinks I need to do
more, all she needs to do is say so as no offense was intended!

My comment was in jest and followed her other post where she
acknowledged what she 'opened' herself up too!

- Cliff
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[WISPA] RE: Lets be clear...

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria Proffer



Are you in Mississippi?
Got a clean pillow for your face?

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600



From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:27 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Lets be 
clear...


I dont own networksI 
own bitches!
I dont know if that 
make me your equal!?
- 
Cliff




From: Victoria 
Proffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:19 
PMTo: Cliff LeboeufSubject: Lets be 
clear...


I know more boy's than you 
will ever hope to.

Yep, I am a bitch. but I own 
networks, do you?

When you are my equal, let me 
know.


Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600


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RE: [WISPA] Members List

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria
WTF Joe?
Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:32 PM
To: Joe Laura; WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List

Joe,

Just a naive coonass trying to fight his way out of a wet paper bag with a
scalled St. Louis cat on a slow night.

I think I will stop before I get all scratched up!

Later,
- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Laura
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Members List

Cliff, You sure have a way for words. 
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message -
From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Members List


Sure Bob, if you think so, consider it done. If 'V' thinks I need to do
more, all she needs to do is say so as no offense was intended!

My comment was in jest and followed her other post where she
acknowledged what she 'opened' herself up too!

- Cliff
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RE: [WISPA] RE: Lets be clear...

2006-03-20 Thread Cliff Leboeuf








Im sure that since you own
networks that your continued accidental post of off-list
email to the list has an explanation



FYI, I am the scum below MississippiLouisiana! You know,
where Joe is located. J



- Cliff











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria Proffer
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:33
PM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: [WISPA] RE: Lets be
clear...





Are you in Mississippi?

Got a clean pillow for your face?







Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com

314-974-5600















From: Cliff Leboeuf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:27
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Lets be clear...

I dont own networksI own
bitches!

I dont know if that make me your
equal!?

- Cliff









From: Victoria Proffer
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:19
PM
To: Cliff Leboeuf
Subject: Lets be clear...







I know more boy's than you will ever hope to.





Yep, I am a bitch. but I own networks, do you?





When you are my equal, let me know.









Victoria Proffer

www.StLouisBroadBand.com

314-974-5600












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RE: [WISPA] RE: Lets be clear...

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria



I love moments when I install radiosbut unfortunately, 
I succumb to the music.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria 
ProfferSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:33 PMTo: 'WISPA 
General List'Subject: [WISPA] RE: Lets be 
clear...

Are you in Mississippi?
Got a clean pillow for your face?

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600



From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:27 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Lets be 
clear...


I dont own networksI 
own bitches!
I dont know if that 
make me your equal!?
- 
Cliff




From: Victoria 
Proffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:19 
PMTo: Cliff LeboeufSubject: Lets be 
clear...


I know more boy's than you 
will ever hope to.

Yep, I am a bitch. but I own 
networks, do you?

When you are my equal, let me 
know.


Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600


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RE: [WISPA] RE: Lets be clear...

2006-03-20 Thread Victoria



Good thing this is Monday


Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VictoriaSent: 
Monday, March 20, 2006 10:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA 
General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] RE: Lets be 
clear...

I love moments when I install radiosbut unfortunately, 
I succumb to the music.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria 
ProfferSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:33 PMTo: 'WISPA 
General List'Subject: [WISPA] RE: Lets be 
clear...

Are you in Mississippi?
Got a clean pillow for your face?

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600



From: Cliff Leboeuf 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:27 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Lets be 
clear...


I dont own networksI 
own bitches!
I dont know if that 
make me your equal!?
- 
Cliff




From: Victoria 
Proffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:19 
PMTo: Cliff LeboeufSubject: Lets be 
clear...


I know more boy's than you 
will ever hope to.

Yep, I am a bitch. but I own 
networks, do you?

When you are my equal, let me 
know.


Victoria 
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600


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