Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Mario Pommier

Carlos,
   that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate:

   Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment 
will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each.
   Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a finished, 
packaged product, or do you want to be able to play more with the 
tools and toys out there?
   The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you 
deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished 
products?

   Hope that helps some.

Mario

Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many 
equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do 
something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is that 
in order that this work i have to use 4 radios


1300--[1300 -ethernet-1300]--1300

and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in 
5.8 and can be used as:


  LMG22--LMG22--LMG22

im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont 
get the answer that im looking for.

Mike Brownson escribió:


Carlos,

It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need.  There is 
some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk 
over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance 
is not too long.  Other option is to put another repeater in 
between.  But that means another radio site.  If you want to send me 
latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link 
will work.


Mike B

Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my 
ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or 
vendors do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE












--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high 
throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can 
easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon 
Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread John Scrivner

Replies below:

Matt Liotta wrote:


Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. 


Wow! Business must be good!

We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an 
option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's 
products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product 
that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range?


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way 
short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 
GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the 
specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually 
much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a 
spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It 
gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air 
better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously 
there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I 
know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity 
backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX?


I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. 
I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get 
us past 100Mbps full duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end 
about 100 mbps FDX?


I bet Bob Moldashel has hit this same wall before. What do you do in 
this situation Bob? He was one of the guys who helped put New York City 
data traffic back together after 911. Any thoughts Bob?

Scriv
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks)
Are you looking at Unlicensed?  I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput,
long distance links.  With bonding you can easily get  100Mbps speeds, just
keep adding links as your need grows.

See this:  150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: 12 December 2006 4:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the
suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the
distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high
throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can
easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra
and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex.

24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
While I'm a fan of MikroTik, the test setup you show is not a viable
solution in a real world deployment.

Best,

Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks)
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:27 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Are you looking at Unlicensed?  I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput,
long distance links.  With bonding you can easily get  100Mbps speeds, just
keep adding links as your need grows.

See this:  150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: 12 December 2006 4:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the
suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the
distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high
throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can
easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra
and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex.

24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel

170 Mb FD Dragonwave...

About $20K





Matt Liotta wrote:


Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do 
high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something 
that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the 
Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full 
duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
Agreed, 18GHz should fit the bill nicely for 100Mbps in the 5-10 miles
range.  80GHz will do 100Mbps - 1000Mbps up to about 3-4miles.  I hear 65GHz
will do 100Mbps - 1000Mbps beyond 5miles.

Of course it all depends on your acceptable uptime requirement.

Best,

Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:34 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Replies below:

Matt Liotta wrote:

 Guys,

 We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. 

Wow! Business must be good!

 We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an 
 option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's 
 products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product 
 that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range?

Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way 
short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 
GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the 
specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually 
much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a 
spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It 
gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air 
better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously 
there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I 
know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity 
backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX?

 I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. 
 I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get 
 us past 100Mbps full duplex.

 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end 
about 100 mbps FDX?

I bet Bob Moldashel has hit this same wall before. What do you do in 
this situation Bob? He was one of the guys who helped put New York City 
data traffic back together after 911. Any thoughts Bob?
Scriv
-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good 
choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to 
play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so 
im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to 
learn the how to, thanks to everybody, this is an amazing list.


Mario Pommier escribió:

Carlos,
   that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate:

   Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment 
will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each.
   Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a 
finished, packaged product, or do you want to be able to play more 
with the tools and toys out there?
   The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you 
deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished 
products?

   Hope that helps some.

Mario

Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many 
equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do 
something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is 
that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios


1300--[1300 -ethernet-1300]--1300

and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in 
5.8 and can be used as:


  LMG22--LMG22--LMG22

im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont 
get the answer that im looking for.

Mike Brownson escribió:


Carlos,

It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need.  There is 
some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk 
over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance 
is not too long.  Other option is to put another repeater in 
between.  But that means another radio site.  If you want to send me 
latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link 
will work.


Mike B

Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my 
ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment 
or vendors do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE














--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Tim Kerns

Matt,

The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. I 
believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the system 
you are out growing?


Tim Kerns

- Original Message - 
From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options


While I'm a fan of MikroTik, the test setup you show is not a viable
solution in a real world deployment.

Best,

Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks)
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:27 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Are you looking at Unlicensed?  I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput,
long distance links.  With bonding you can easily get  100Mbps speeds, just
keep adding links as your need grows.

See this:  150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: 12 December 2006 4:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the
suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the
distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high
throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can
easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra
and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex.

24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

What distances do you need? 5 to 10 miles is a big swing for some gear

What's your budget?

A series of 60 gig radios might work well for ya.

Certainly the Dragonwave 24 gig gear should do.

You might also look at Harris or Microwave networks licensed gear.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high 
throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can 
easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon 
Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks) wrote:

Are you looking at Unlicensed?  I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput,
long distance links.  With bonding you can easily get  100Mbps speeds, just
keep adding links as your need grows.

See this:  150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test


  

We won't use Wi-Fi radios for backhaul and we don't want to bond.

-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
I have a handful of these in NYC and Wash DC.  They kick ass and the 
company backs them 150%. They are my first licensed choice.  Ceragon is 
my second.


-B-



Bob Moldashel wrote:


170 Mb FD Dragonwave...

About $20K





Matt Liotta wrote:


Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do 
high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something 
that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the 
Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full 
duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.

-Matt








--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

fyi,

I believe that it's oxygen that absorbs 60 gig.  Not so much rain.  Often 
companies tie 60 gig and FSO together for short hop very high speed 
redundant links.  Each fades differently in different weather.


Note, everything above 10 gig has rain fade, some bands just more so than 
others as I understand it.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



Replies below:

Matt Liotta wrote:


Guys,

We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis.


Wow! Business must be good!

We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option 
in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high 
throughput in the 5-10 mile range?


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way 
short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz 
gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. 
I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much 
less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of 
absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better 
above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as 
high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other 
licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some 
experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you 
run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX?


I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I 
know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us 
past 100Mbps full duplex.


24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end 
about 100 mbps FDX?


I bet Bob Moldashel has hit this same wall before. What do you do in this 
situation Bob? He was one of the guys who helped put New York City data 
traffic back together after 911. Any thoughts Bob?

Scriv
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] The Holiday Season

2006-12-12 Thread Forbes Mercy
I received an email from my support staff who was mad because a customer called 
screaming at them and the tech felt the installers weren't fixing problems 
aggressive enough.  Normally this is a simple fix but during this stressful 
season both sides flew off in a rage.  Our company dinner is tonight and I felt 
perhaps I should send a little reminder of who we are.  I laugh when the first 
line says how much I hate the holidays but trust me it gets better.  It's 
something us small business owners, especially in this business, have to 
remember to say when times get really stressful.  I just thougth I'd pass it 
on, I hope your not offended by it:
 
 
You know what I really hate about the holiday season.  People feel they are 
under so much pressure to give that they become asses to everyone else.  Our 
customers become out of control crazy and our employees who deal with the same 
problems year round become more sensitive because you are under the same 
pressures personally for the holidays.
 
Pretty soon employee comments get harsher in the notes and the reactions get 
more radical and everyone goes away miserable.  I don't know about you but I 
can't wait for the end of the year so people can just calm down.  No business 
is more affected then ours because if anything fails the customer calls 
screaming that we ruined their Christmas or some nonsence like that, gee thanks 
for ruining ours too, ya jerk.
 
I just want to make sure you know that a smart remark in notes will be taken 
much more personally this time of year.  Saying I just wish you installers 
would go fix it  is going to be met with I think you techs can come try and 
do our job responses.  Neither is a reasonable statement but I understand the 
pressure on both of you.
 
The only thing you need to take away from this email is this.  I support you 
and will be as flexible as you need to make sure this season is not a pressure 
filled as the rest of the world is making it.  My daughter is ready to walk out 
of her job because her bosses are self serving and make no attempt to 
understand the added stress of the season and in fact are adding to it.  I 
won't add to yours.  
 
Tonight we all have dinner and I want just for those few hours you to remember 
that we are all in this together and we are a highly moral company who always 
goes beyond the rest to take care of our customers even at personal expense.  
We may not be a good battle for the billion dollar corporations who just want 
to lose money to kill us but the core of our customers are still seeking 
somebody in this world who still really cares about them and thats us.  So feel 
good that when the rest of the world seems to want to screw you we are caring 
about our customers and leading by example.
 
Now take a breath and lets get back to work, see you tonight and Merry 
Christmas and all those other religious greetings that I am now required by the 
religious police to say.  I got your back.
 
Forbes 
-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The results 
pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  That's 
supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same 
time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm sure that there will be 
a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I 
tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees 
another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm going ot use a 
Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas.  The 
backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the 
remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this.  It'll 
be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and forward out one 
port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same 
time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Carlos A. Garcia G [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice 
and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do 
i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread W.D.McKinney
- Original Message -
From: Bob Moldashel
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:49:39 -0900
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options


 170 Mb FD Dragonwave...
 
 About $20K
 
 
 

Hi Matt,

I agree with Bob here, the Dragonwave solution is your ticket to reliable 
service at the speeds you require.

-Dee



 
 
 Matt Liotta wrote:
 
  Guys,
 
  We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are 
  backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in 
  the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but 
  the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do 
  high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something 
  that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the 
  Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full 
  duplex.
 
  24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us.
 
  -Matt
 
 
 
 -- 
 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 Broadband Deployment Group
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
 800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
 631-585-5558 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell
 
 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

My recommendation is to have a dual WAR board at the main POP.  Use a
5 GHz antenna and radio to connect tot the middle repeater and have a
2.4 GHz with an omni at the main just to be able to connect any local
customers.  The biggest investment is the CPU board and time to
install, and an extra radio and 15 dB omni is cheap.  Even a couple of
subscribers will make it pay.

At the middle repeater I would use a dual WAR with 5 GHz radios to
point to main and the remote end.  If you want some local service at
that repeater then use a 4 port WAR and throw a 2.4 GHz and 900 MHz
card in it or both 2.4 GHz or 900 MHz.  Your choice.

The remote end is a copy of the main end with a dual WAR and 5 GHz
input and a 2.4 GHz to an omni for local use.

This arrangement will get you 20 to 30 mbps of sustained throughput as
long as the middle repeater is no farther than 30 miles from either
end.  You'll also have a couple of revenue generating AP units at each
end and potentially the middle.

Lonnie

On 12/12/06, Carlos A. Garcia G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good
choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to
play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so
im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to
learn the how to, thanks to everybody, this is an amazing list.

Mario Pommier escribió:
 Carlos,
that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate:

Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment
 will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each.
Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a
 finished, packaged product, or do you want to be able to play more
 with the tools and toys out there?
The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you
 deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished
 products?
Hope that helps some.

 Mario

 Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

 Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many
 equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do
 something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is
 that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios

 1300--[1300 -ethernet-1300]--1300

 and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in
 5.8 and can be used as:

   LMG22--LMG22--LMG22

 im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont
 get the answer that im looking for.
 Mike Brownson escribió:

 Carlos,

 It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need.  There is
 some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk
 over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance
 is not too long.  Other option is to put another repeater in
 between.  But that means another radio site.  If you want to send me
 latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link
 will work.

 Mike B

 Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

 Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my
 ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment
 or vendors do i have to contact: look!

 NOC -- POP -- OFFICE
 









--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




--
Lonnie Nunweiler
Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough 
starting with 11Mbps


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:

Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The 
results pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  That's 
supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the 
same time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm sure that 
there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it 
was last time I tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one 
that sees another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm going 
ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad 
antennas.  The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical 
and the one to the remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this.  
It'll be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and 
forward out one port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other 
basically at the same time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my 
ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or 
vendors do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] The Holiday Season

2006-12-12 Thread Peter R.
Deep Breaths.  Some fun time at work.  More breaks with sugar and less 
caffeine. Exercise.

All work to release stress.

If everyone is under pressure at your office - and you know it - it is 
your job to help manage that stress.

Or lose customers.

Just my quick 2 cents.

Peter



Forbes Mercy wrote:


I received an email from my support staff who was mad because a customer called 
screaming at them and the tech felt the installers weren't fixing problems 
aggressive enough.  Normally this is a simple fix but during this stressful 
season both sides flew off in a rage.  Our company dinner is tonight and I felt 
perhaps I should send a little reminder of who we are.  I laugh when the first 
line says how much I hate the holidays but trust me it gets better.  It's 
something us small business owners, especially in this business, have to 
remember to say when times get really stressful.  I just thougth I'd pass it 
on, I hope your not offended by it:


You know what I really hate about the holiday season.  People feel they are 
under so much pressure to give that they become asses to everyone else.  Our 
customers become out of control crazy and our employees who deal with the same 
problems year round become more sensitive because you are under the same pressures 
personally for the holidays.

Pretty soon employee comments get harsher in the notes and the reactions get 
more radical and everyone goes away miserable.  I don't know about you but I 
can't wait for the end of the year so people can just calm down.  No business 
is more affected then ours because if anything fails the customer calls 
screaming that we ruined their Christmas or some nonsence like that, gee thanks 
for ruining ours too, ya jerk.

I just want to make sure you know that a smart remark in notes will be taken much more personally 
this time of year.  Saying I just wish you installers would go fix it  is going to be 
met with I think you techs can come try and do our job responses.  Neither is a 
reasonable statement but I understand the pressure on both of you.

The only thing you need to take away from this email is this.  I support you and will be as flexible as you need to make sure this season is not a pressure filled as the rest of the world is making it.  My daughter is ready to walk out of her job because her bosses are self serving and make no attempt to understand the added stress of the season and in fact are adding to it.  I won't add to yours.  


Tonight we all have dinner and I want just for those few hours you to remember 
that we are all in this together and we are a highly moral company who always 
goes beyond the rest to take care of our customers even at personal expense.  
We may not be a good battle for the billion dollar corporations who just want 
to lose money to kill us but the core of our customers are still seeking 
somebody in this world who still really cares about them and thats us.  So feel 
good that when the rest of the world seems to want to screw you we are caring 
about our customers and leading by example.

Now take a breath and lets get back to work, see you tonight and Merry 
Christmas and all those other religious greetings that I am now required by the 
religious police to say.  I got your back.

Forbes 
 




--


Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884 
http://www.marketingIDEAguy.com



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
Ok, following your recomendations in order to set up the link without 
using more than 3 radios what you recommend its to use th WAR from 
Staros i have a wireless repeaters using cisco so the extra radios for 
customers are not necesary (sorry my english) if i use this


NOC war with one antenna and radio at 5.8GHz to connect with the middle 
POP war dual 2 radios 2 antennas at 5.8GHz and finally the customer POP war
and what about security the guy ask me to doit secure meaning not easy 
for the folks. (he knows total security its an utopia a Guajiro dream!!)


Lonnie Nunweiler escribió:

My recommendation is to have a dual WAR board at the main POP.  Use a
5 GHz antenna and radio to connect tot the middle repeater and have a
2.4 GHz with an omni at the main just to be able to connect any local
customers.  The biggest investment is the CPU board and time to
install, and an extra radio and 15 dB omni is cheap.  Even a couple of
subscribers will make it pay.

At the middle repeater I would use a dual WAR with 5 GHz radios to
point to main and the remote end.  If you want some local service at
that repeater then use a 4 port WAR and throw a 2.4 GHz and 900 MHz
card in it or both 2.4 GHz or 900 MHz.  Your choice.

The remote end is a copy of the main end with a dual WAR and 5 GHz
input and a 2.4 GHz to an omni for local use.

This arrangement will get you 20 to 30 mbps of sustained throughput as
long as the middle repeater is no farther than 30 miles from either
end.  You'll also have a couple of revenue generating AP units at each
end and potentially the middle.

Lonnie

On 12/12/06, Carlos A. Garcia G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good
choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to
play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so
im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to
learn the how to, thanks to everybody, this is an amazing list.

Mario Pommier escribió:
 Carlos,
that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate:

Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment
 will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each.
Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a
 finished, packaged product, or do you want to be able to play more
 with the tools and toys out there?
The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you
 deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished
 products?
Hope that helps some.

 Mario

 Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

 Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many
 equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do
 something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is
 that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios

 1300--[1300 -ethernet-1300]--1300

 and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in
 5.8 and can be used as:

   LMG22--LMG22--LMG22

 im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont
 get the answer that im looking for.
 Mike Brownson escribió:

 Carlos,

 It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need.  There is
 some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk
 over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance
 is not too long.  Other option is to put another repeater in
 between.  But that means another radio site.  If you want to send me
 latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link
 will work.

 Mike B

 Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

 Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my
 ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment
 or vendors do i have to contact: look!

 NOC -- POP -- OFFICE
 









--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Tim Kerns wrote:
The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. 
I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the 
system you are out growing?


First of all, 300Mbps is an aggregate figure. Second, in a low latency 
deployment at 5-10 miles it is not possible to get full throughput on an 
Orthogon.


-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] spectrum analyzer

2006-12-12 Thread Blair Davis
Well, I know we have been round and round this subject before, but, I am 
finally ready to buy a spectrum analyzer


What I want

Coverage of 900MHz, 2.3-2.5GHz, and 5-6GHz
Absolute power readings...  I don't really care what the range on the 
power readings is as I can adjust the level as needed with attenuators  
But, I wish to do repeatable testing and comparison of radio cards and 
pigtails with the unit...
Portable  I don't need, (but would not object), to a hand held unit, 
but a big rack mount won't do me much good
Reasonable price 1K$ or so.  Referb or recon is fine  I'd 
consider used from someone well known on wispa

Ext. antenna input


Ideas?  Suggestions?

I remember some talking about hand-held units on here before.  Any body 
ever get one and use it?


Thanks


--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

John Scrivner wrote:

Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing 
to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we 
have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely 
challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company.
Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only 
way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance 
for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I 
read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There 
is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. 
There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat 
that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go 
through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 
60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency 
space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed 
high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 
mbps FDX?


Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade 
existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways 
to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to 
have a static configuration.
I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top 
end about 100 mbps FDX?


DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps 
full duplex.


-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel

24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles.

The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio.   100 Mb Full 
Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas


-B-



Matt Liotta wrote:


John Scrivner wrote:


Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are 
racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity 
upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth 
is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can 
destroy the company.


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only 
way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance 
for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I 
read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There 
is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. 
There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat 
that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go 
through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 
60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency 
space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed 
high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 
100 mbps FDX?


Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely 
upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in 
different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed 
we are forced to have a static configuration.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top 
end about 100 mbps FDX?


DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 
200Mbps full duplex.






-Matt




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] WiMAX Security

2006-12-12 Thread W.D.McKinney
I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post today at
http://www.dailywireless.org/

Cheers,
-Dee

Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Rick Harnish
My experience is showing about a max of 240 Mbps aggregate bandwidth for a
link that long.   My shortest link is about a quarter mile and is getting
283 Mbps.  

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Tim Kerns wrote:
 The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. 
 I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the 
 system you are out growing?

First of all, 300Mbps is an aggregate figure. Second, in a low latency 
deployment at 5-10 miles it is not possible to get full throughput on an 
Orthogon.

-Matt

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr
I can vouch for Dragon Wave. We have 2 11Ghz links, rock solid, Latency that
rivals fiber.  


Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

John Scrivner wrote:
 Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing 
to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we 
have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely 
challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company.
 Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only 
 way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance 
 for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I 
 read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There 
 is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. 
 There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat 
 that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go 
 through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 
 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency 
 space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed 
 high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 
 mbps FDX?

Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade 
existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways 
to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to 
have a static configuration.
 I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top 
 end about 100 mbps FDX?

DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps 
full duplex.

-Matt

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than 
that) or a real 11 meg?


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Carlos A. Garcia G [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion


reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough 
starting with 11Mbps


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:

Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The 
results pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  That's 
supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same 
time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm sure that there will 
be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time 
I tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that 
sees another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm going ot use 
a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. 
The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to 
the remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. 
It'll be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and forward 
out one port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at 
the same time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice 
and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors 
do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson
How about Dragonwave 18ghz or 11ghz? I think they make a 200mbps product 
in both of those bands.


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:

24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles.

The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio.   100 Mb Full 
Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas


-B-



Matt Liotta wrote:


John Scrivner wrote:


Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are 
racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity 
upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of 
growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we 
can destroy the company.


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only 
way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance 
for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since 
I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. 
There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 
60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water 
molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe 
that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than 
what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options 
in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience 
running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run 
for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX?


Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely 
upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in 
different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed 
we are forced to have a static configuration.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top 
end about 100 mbps FDX?


DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 
200Mbps full duplex.






-Matt





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security

2006-12-12 Thread Jack Unger

Dee,

There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very 
wrong info in that article on WiMAX security; especially the part saying 
that it's easy to jam WiMAX. Witness the following text from the article:



It is reasonably simple, however, for an attacker to use readily 
available tools to jam the spectrum for all planned WiMax deployments. 
In addition to physical layer denial of service attacks, an attacker can 
use legacy management frames to forcibly disconnect legitimate stations. 
This is similar to the deauthenticate flood attacks used against 802.11 
networks.


Despite good intentions for WiMax security, there are several potential 
attacks open to adversaries, including: Rogue base stations, DoS 
attacks, Man-in-the-middle attacks and Network manipulation with spoofed 
management frames... 




The article author imagines that jammers are going to have $30,000 
licensed rogue base stations laying around to jam with.


The author somehow also imagines the possibility of jamming all planned 
WiMax deployments - this is a ridiculous statement.


The author further imagines that jamming will be allowed by the FCC. The 
FCC may not act against jammers in license-free spectrum but rest 
assured that they will very likely act against jammers in licensed 
spectrum. For example, if someone started jamming Verizon cellphone 
towers, both Verizon and the FCC would act pretty quickly to find the 
guilty party and have them arrested. They could probably even be charged 
as a terrorist under current laws.


I'm glad you posted this link. Like many wireless articles these days, 
this one contains some good information and some bad information. All we 
need is the knowledge or the resources to tell which is which is which 
is which...


jack


W.D.McKinney wrote:


I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post today at
http://www.dailywireless.org/

Cheers,
-Dee

Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net


--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always 
on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles.

The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio.   100 Mb Full Duplex 
(Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas


-B-



Matt Liotta wrote:


John Scrivner wrote:


Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing 
to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we 
have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely 
challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the 
company.


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way 
short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 
GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the 
specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually 
much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a 
spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It 
gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air 
better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously 
there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I 
know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity 
backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX?


Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade 
existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways 
to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to 
have a static configuration.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end 
about 100 mbps FDX?


DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps 
full duplex.






-Matt




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.



Why not?

-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Erik Jansson
We have done Dragon Wave with links over 20 miles at 18ghz.  with 4 ft 
dishes.(23ghz is very low powered and would get you more then a few 
miles)  We have seen a few minutes a year in rain fade as it is pushing 
the limits.  There is now an high power unit that has about 10db more tx 
power then ours,  they also have an 11GHz product which of course has 
fewer issues with heavy rain.   Just be forewarned that a 4 or 6 foot 
dish at 18ghz has a  beam width of less then 1deg and and fine tuning is 
time consuming and very touchy.   They also have to be mounted on a very 
rigid structure so if it is going on a tower it has to be a hefty or the 
wind can easily play with your alignment. Excellent gear and service 
would recommend them.


Erik

Bob Moldashel wrote:

24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles.

The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio.   100 Mb Full 
Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas


-B-



Matt Liotta wrote:


John Scrivner wrote:


Wow! Business must be good!

That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are 
racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity 
upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of 
growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we 
can destroy the company.


Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only 
way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance 
for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since 
I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. 
There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 
60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water 
molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe 
that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than 
what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options 
in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience 
running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run 
for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX?


Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the 
ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely 
upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in 
different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed 
we are forced to have a static configuration.


I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top 
end about 100 mbps FDX?


DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 
200Mbps full duplex.






-Matt





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Jason Hensley

Marlon,

For WDS, you lose half your capacity, so an 11meg link will instantly drop 
down to 5.5meg if I understand it right.


Having said that, I've got a couple of Tranzeo AP's running WDS right now, 
working as a repeater, and the performance is horrible.  I think part of my 
problem though is that they are so close together (less than a mile) and I 
think they are seriously interfering with each other.  I've been planning / 
trying to move this to a better solution for a month and just haven't gotten 
it done.




- Original Message - 
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion


11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than 
that) or a real 11 meg?


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Carlos A. Garcia G [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion


reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough 
starting with 11Mbps


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:

Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The 
results pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  That's 
supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the 
same time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm sure that 
there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it 
was last time I tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that 
sees another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm going ot use 
a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. 
The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to 
the remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. 
It'll be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and forward 
out one port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at 
the same time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice 
and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors 
do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Mike Brownson
If reliability is your main issue then you may reconsider using wifi 
product and omni antennas.  There are so many things that can effect the 
radio signal.  If you link to experiment then perhaps it's good to go 
with WAR boards as it's kind of a make it yourself solution.  If you 
want something that just goes in and is secure and works then be 
prepared to spend more money.  So first you need to know what you are 
looking for and how much money you have to spend.  Marlon's idea with 
the Tranzeo operating in WDS is good for low cost without having to make 
it yourself.  But you still need someplace in the middle that you can 
put a radio.  If you don't have that then it's time to look at different 
ways to do this.  Too many questions and not enough answers yet.


Mike

Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its 
enough starting with 11Mbps


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:


Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The 
results pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  
That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio 
at the same time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm sure 
that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less 
than it was last time I tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one 
that sees another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm 
going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of 
Maxrad antennas.  The backhaul to the main tower will be done with 
vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this.  
It'll be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and 
forward out one port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other 
basically at the same time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my 
ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or 
vendors do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







--
Mike Brownson
Electro-comm Distributing
5015 Paris St
Denver, CO 80239
www.electro-comm.com
(303) 371-8182 x112,   (800) 525-0173

Your 24x7 support staff is at www.ShopECBIZ.com
Interested in Metro WiFi? We have solutions
Coming soon from Tranzeo, 900MHz PtMP

We are having our 13th annual EC Expo January 17-19, 2007 in Denver Colorado.  
There is 2 days of training from Canopy, Airaya, Bridgewave, Dragonwave, 
Tranzeo, Stratex, Inscape data, Trylon and Polyphaser.  The exhibits will be on 
Friday January 19th. Visit www.ec-expo.com for registration and information.

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] spectrum analyzer

2006-12-12 Thread Mike Brownson
We've got one of our Avcom Rental units available for sale.  We rent 
these for $100 per week.  This has been used on and off for the past 
year and it's time to move it.  It sells for $3K new, we need $1000 for 
the analyzer.  We have a 5Ghz freq extender as well for $400, normally 
$800.  Only thing needed is the 900MHz freq extender.  So what we have 
will do the 1.7-2.7GHz band plus 5-6GHz (with extender) for $1400.  
Portable (not handheld) unit with large easy to read screen, markers, 
memory and peak hold functions plus more.  More info at 
http://avcomofva.com/products/default.asp?page=psa1727b. 


Mike B

Blair Davis wrote:

Well, I know we have been round and round this subject before, but, I 
am finally ready to buy a spectrum analyzer


What I want

Coverage of 900MHz, 2.3-2.5GHz, and 5-6GHz
Absolute power readings...  I don't really care what the range on the 
power readings is as I can adjust the level as needed with 
attenuators  But, I wish to do repeatable testing and comparison of 
radio cards and pigtails with the unit...
Portable  I don't need, (but would not object), to a hand held 
unit, but a big rack mount won't do me much good
Reasonable price 1K$ or so.  Referb or recon is fine  I'd 
consider used from someone well known on wispa

Ext. antenna input


Ideas?  Suggestions?

I remember some talking about hand-held units on here before.  Any 
body ever get one and use it?


Thanks




--
Mike Brownson
Electro-comm Distributing
5015 Paris St
Denver, CO 80239
www.electro-comm.com
(303) 371-8182 x112,   (800) 525-0173

Your 24x7 support staff is at www.ShopECBIZ.com
Interested in Metro WiFi? We have solutions
Coming soon from Tranzeo, 900MHz PtMP

We are having our 13th annual EC Expo January 17-19, 2007 in Denver Colorado.  
There is 2 days of training from Canopy, Airaya, Bridgewave, Dragonwave, 
Tranzeo, Stratex, Inscape data, Trylon and Polyphaser.  The exhibits will be on 
Friday January 19th. Visit www.ec-expo.com for registration and information.

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] Welcome Imagestream - WISPA's Newest Vendor Member!

2006-12-12 Thread John Scrivner
In the WISP industry there are a few names that stick out as being 
companies who have been true friends to WISPs over the years. One of the 
names that truly tops the list is ImageStream. If you need a router then 
these guys have one that will do the job well, whatever the job is. The 
amazing thing is that they sell everything from low-priced so-ho routers 
up to Enterprise grade solutions that have been used by the Federal 
Government.


These guys don't just sell you a box. They give you a solution and they 
back it up with some of the best service in this market segment. They 
make sure you have something of value when you buy from them. Best of 
all they do it for less than the bigger name companies and they do it 
with a smile on their face. I am proud to have ImageStream on board as a 
Vendor Member of WISPA and I hope you will all consider these guys for 
your router needs in the future. Here is an introductory message from my 
friend Jeff Broadwick of ImageStream:


WISPA members:

ImageStream is delighted to become a vendor-member of this fine
organization.  We believe that WISPA is by WISPs and for WISPs.  You have
great leadership, and I expect that the future will bring great progress!

ImageStream manufactures and sells complete Linux-based routers.  We provide 
24/7 support.  ImageStream routers also support high-end router features such 
as BGP, QoS, VRRP, and just about any application that a WISP would need, with 
enough horsepower to still run your circuits at line-speed.

ImageStream is a profitable, privately held company located in Plymouth
Indiana.  We were formed in 1995 and we shipped the first complete
commercial Linux router in 1999.  We attended the 2nd WISPCON at the behest
of one of our customers and have been excited about working with WISPs every since.  


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Jeff Broadwick
Sales Manager, ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
+1 574-935-8488   (Fax)


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
Ihave never check the real speed but the radio it is a G so it must be 
more than that


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:

11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less 
than that) or a real 11 meg?


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion


reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its 
enough starting with 11Mbps


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:

Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The 
results pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  
That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio 
at the same time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm 
sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much 
less than it was last time I tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one 
that sees another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm 
going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of 
Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with 
vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. 
It'll be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and 
forward out one port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other 
basically at the same time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my 
ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment 
or vendors do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Need opinion

2006-12-12 Thread Carlos A. Garcia G
OK, about the cost lets say max 1300 Dlls each equipment, could be any 
equipment that solve the problem, well actually its not a problem i have 
done this kind of link before what i want now it is not to use 4 
equipments and doing with 5.8

Mike Brownson escribió:
If reliability is your main issue then you may reconsider using wifi 
product and omni antennas.  There are so many things that can effect 
the radio signal.  If you link to experiment then perhaps it's good to 
go with WAR boards as it's kind of a make it yourself solution.  If 
you want something that just goes in and is secure and works then be 
prepared to spend more money.  So first you need to know what you are 
looking for and how much money you have to spend.  Marlon's idea with 
the Tranzeo operating in WDS is good for low cost without having to 
make it yourself.  But you still need someplace in the middle that you 
can put a radio.  If you don't have that then it's time to look at 
different ways to do this.  Too many questions and not enough answers 
yet.


Mike

Carlos A. Garcia G wrote:

reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its 
enough starting with 11Mbps


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió:


Hi Carlos

You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link.

I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about.  The 
results pretty well sucked.  big time.


However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds.  
That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio 
at the same time.  It's supposed to do what you are asking.  I'm 
sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much 
less than it was last time I tried this.


You'd end up with  ap/noc--ap/wds--cpe/office

We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one 
that sees another customer that's wanted service for years.  I'm 
going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of 
Maxrad antennas.  The backhaul to the main tower will be done with 
vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal.


Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this.  
It'll be faster and more stable.  Radios don't like to store and 
forward out one port.  They like to rec. on one and tx on the other 
basically at the same time.


Wish us both luck!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Carlos A. Garcia G 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion


Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my 
ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment 
or vendors do i have to contact: look!


NOC -- POP -- OFFICE

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/









--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security

2006-12-12 Thread W.D.McKinney


- Original Message -
From: Jack Unger
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:11:45 -0900
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security


 Dee,
 
 There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very 
 wrong info in that article on WiMAX security; especially the part saying 
 that it's easy to jam WiMAX. Witness the following text from the article:
 
 
 It is reasonably simple, however, for an attacker to use readily 
 available tools to jam the spectrum for all planned WiMax deployments. 
 In addition to physical layer denial of service attacks, an attacker can 
 use legacy management frames to forcibly disconnect legitimate stations. 
 This is similar to the deauthenticate flood attacks used against 802.11 
 networks.
 
 Despite good intentions for WiMax security, there are several potential 
 attacks open to adversaries, including: Rogue base stations, DoS 
 attacks, Man-in-the-middle attacks and Network manipulation with spoofed 
 management frames... 
 
 
 
 The article author imagines that jammers are going to have $30,000 
 licensed rogue base stations laying around to jam with.
 
 The author somehow also imagines the possibility of jamming all planned 
 WiMax deployments - this is a ridiculous statement.
 
 The author further imagines that jamming will be allowed by the FCC. The 
 FCC may not act against jammers in license-free spectrum but rest 
 assured that they will very likely act against jammers in licensed 
 spectrum. For example, if someone started jamming Verizon cellphone 
 towers, both Verizon and the FCC would act pretty quickly to find the 
 guilty party and have them arrested. They could probably even be charged 
 as a terrorist under current laws.
 
 I'm glad you posted this link. Like many wireless articles these days, 
 this one contains some good information and some bad information. All we 
 need is the knowledge or the resources to tell which is which is which 
 is which...
 
 jack
 
 

Hi Jack,

Well, try calling me tomorrow. It will be an interesting conversation.


-Dee



 W.D.McKinney wrote:
 
  I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post
 today at
  http://www.dailywireless.org/
  
  Cheers,
  -Dee
  
  Alaska Wireless Systems
  1(907)240-2183 Cell
  1(907)349-2226 Fax
  1(907)349-4308 Office
  www.akwireless.net
 
-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread chris cooper
Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot
devices?

 

Thanks

Chris

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread michaeldavidlake
You need to look at Nera, Ceragon, and Gigacom.
 
The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out 
of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in 
the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some 
applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if not the best Gig. radio on the 
mrkt.
 
Regards,
 
Mike 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options


John Scrivner wrote: 
 Wow! Business must be good! 
 
That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to 
service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do 
meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging 
because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. 
 Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only  way 
 short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance  for 70 GHz 
 gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I  read the specs. 
 I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There  is actually much less 
 attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz.  There is a spike of 
 absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat  that signal. It gets better 
 above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go  through the air better with as high 
 as 100 GHz than what you can with  60 GHz. Obviously there are other 
 licensed options in lower frequency  space as well. I know Charles has some 
 experience running licensed  high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you 
 run for backhaul over 100  mbps FDX? 
 
Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability 
to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing 
backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our 
capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static 
configuration. 
 I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top  end 
 about 100 mbps FDX? 
 
DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full 
duplex. 
 
-Matt 
 
-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 

Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security 
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free 
AOL Mail and more.
-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi

Why not?


Because its greedy.
And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, he 
combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go (spectrum 
wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t have customers yet, 
and you do, so you will move to protect your revenue.  Basically by using 
the full band, you are guaranteeing that anyone that deploys has no choice 
but to fight you for spectrum, meaning any channel they choose will 
interfere with you.  Sure you can go narrow beam antenna, but its jsut a 
matter of time until someone bangs into you.


The question that one asks is WHY? If you ahve an option that doesn't take 
the whole band, why would you choose one that does? Those decissions don't 
usually make friends, and non-friends tend to interfere.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.



Why not?

-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out 
of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in 
the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some 
applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if not the best Gig. radio on the 
mrkt.
  
Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an 
experimental license until they are certified like the sales person 
suggested.


-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
Not only that, but is the GigE radio even available yet?

Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long
distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that
perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance.
60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if
not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt.
   
Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an 
experimental license until they are certified like the sales person 
suggested.

-Matt

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Because its greedy.

Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy.
And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are 
greedy, he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to 
go (spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t 
have customers yet, and you do, so you will move to protect your 
revenue.  Basically by using the full band, you are guaranteeing that 
anyone that deploys has no choice but to fight you for spectrum, 
meaning any channel they choose will interfere with you.  Sure you can 
go narrow beam antenna, but its jsut a matter of time until someone 
bangs into you.


The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using 
the full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on 
either side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by 
to be affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical 
competitor doesn't have any customers then the deployment must be PtMP 
base station since a PtP wouldn't be very useful without a customer. 
Certainly the power output from a PtMP base station is going to be 
considerably less than my PtP link making it unlikely my equipment would 
be affected. Further, equipment that uses large channel widths tend to 
run simple modulations that have very good receive sensitivity.
The question that one asks is WHY? If you ahve an option that doesn't 
take the whole band, why would you choose one that does? Those 
decissions don't usually make friends, and non-friends tend to interfere.


When you put the question that way, sure, it seems silly. However, that 
assumes there is another option, which isn't necessarily the case. In 
fact, reading this thread so far seems to indicate that the available 
high throughput unlicensed radios have large channel widths.


-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Matt Liotta wrote:

Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy.

Whoops... meant inefficient.

-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread Eric Muehleisen

http://www.digital-loggers.com/EPC.html
http://www.hw-group.com/products/ip_watchdog/index_lite_en.html
http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetailitem=NET10332
http://dataprobe.com/products/power/index.html

-Eric

chris cooper wrote:

Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot
devices?

 


Thanks

Chris

  


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi

Matt,

If you live in a remote area, with no potential interferers, then my comment 
does not apply.
But last I heard you were deploying in the middle of Urban Atlanta and 
possibly Urban DC, with the potential for many interferers eventually.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



Tom DeReggi wrote:

Because its greedy.

Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy.
And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, 
he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go 
(spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t have 
customers yet, and you do, so you will move to protect your revenue. 
Basically by using the full band, you are guaranteeing that anyone that 
deploys has no choice but to fight you for spectrum, meaning any channel 
they choose will interfere with you.  Sure you can go narrow beam 
antenna, but its jsut a matter of time until someone bangs into you.


The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using the 
full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on either 
side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by to be 
affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical competitor 
doesn't have any customers then the deployment must be PtMP base station 
since a PtP wouldn't be very useful without a customer. Certainly the 
power output from a PtMP base station is going to be considerably less 
than my PtP link making it unlikely my equipment would be affected. 
Further, equipment that uses large channel widths tend to run simple 
modulations that have very good receive sensitivity.
The question that one asks is WHY? If you ahve an option that doesn't 
take the whole band, why would you choose one that does? Those decissions 
don't usually make friends, and non-friends tend to interfere.


When you put the question that way, sure, it seems silly. However, that 
assumes there is another option, which isn't necessarily the case. In 
fact, reading this thread so far seems to indicate that the available high 
throughput unlicensed radios have large channel widths.


-Matt
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Tom DeReggi wrote:

Matt,

If you live in a remote area, with no potential interferers, then my 
comment does not apply.
But last I heard you were deploying in the middle of Urban Atlanta and 
possibly Urban DC, with the potential for many interferers eventually.


We mostly deploy in urban areas, but we do a good bit of rural as well. 
We don't really run into interference from others; mostly 
self-interference from putting too many links on a site. Again, since we 
only run PtP gear our signal well exceeds everyone else's.


-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

These are the best ones by far

http://www.webpowerswitch.com/

The low end unit is only $139 or something like that.  They have 
autoping and remote web interface as well.  I haven't seen anything else 
come close for the price.


Their rackmount units are awesome too, for $295 with 16 outlets and 
multiple autoping configurations.  I am putting these everywhere on my 
network, and at the $139 price point I can afford to put them even on my 
little repeater sites.  As far as I'm concerned - every WISP AP should 
have one of these at the bottom.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


chris cooper wrote:

Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot
devices?

 


Thanks

Chris

  


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists


The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using 
the full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on 
either side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by 
to be affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical 
competitor doesn't have any customers then the deployment must be PtMP 
base station since a PtP wouldn't be very useful without a customer. 
Certainly the power output from a PtMP base station is going to be 
considerably less than my PtP link making it unlikely my equipment 
would be affected. Further, equipment that uses large channel widths 
tend to run simple modulations that have very good receive sensitivity.


Several of us on this list know how to shut down these large channel 
backhauls, and have done so when they have intentionally interfered with 
our operations.  Be ready for someone to do the same to you if you try 
using a full-band backhaul.  More than one operator who thought they 
would take over the entire band got a rude surprise when the gear 
suddenly didn't work anymore. 

24ghz is a completely different story, as the beam sizes are very small 
and lots of colocation can take place.   I think you are on the right 
track with the 24ghz solution.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
Several of us on this list know how to shut down these large channel 
backhauls, and have done so when they have intentionally interfered 
with our operations.  Be ready for someone to do the same to you if 
you try using a full-band backhaul.  More than one operator who 
thought they would take over the entire band got a rude surprise when 
the gear suddenly didn't work anymore.
24ghz is a completely different story, as the beam sizes are very 
small and lots of colocation can take place.   I think you are on the 
right track with the 24ghz solution.


So you believe someone was intentionally interfering with your 
operations and your response was to do the same? I'm not sure what that 
has do with running this gear when one's intent is backhaul; not 
interference. When we sign a lease for a wireless colocation site we 
specify what frequencies we are using and agree not to interfere with an 
existing tenants. All future tenants must follow the same rules or risk 
being evicted. Tortuous interference is simply illegal and has civil 
penalties associated with it.


-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel


It doesn't use the entire band...




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel

The GiGe radio is only 500 Mb:-)

You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 
antenna with much better redundancy.  If one link dies you still have 
the other two.


And they are available now with type acceptance.

-B-



Brad Belton wrote:


Not only that, but is the GigE radio even available yet?

Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 


The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long
   


distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that
perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance.
60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if
not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt.
 

 
   

Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an 
experimental license until they are certified like the sales person 
suggested.


-Matt

 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Matt Liotta

Bob Moldashel wrote:
You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 
antenna with much better redundancy.  If one link dies you still have 
the other two.



How are you phasing the radios together without significant loss?

-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel

Matt Liotta wrote:


Matt Liotta wrote:


Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy.


Whoops... meant inefficient.

-Matt


100 Mb FD on a 32 Mhz. channel.That's not bad.

Besides...get the GPS syc option and you can tie in a handful of links 
on the same channel.  That makes them very efficient


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
There is a matching network that goes on the rear of the antenna.  At 
higher freqs the loss is much lower than on lower freqs.


-B-




Matt Liotta wrote:


Bob Moldashel wrote:

You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 
antenna with much better redundancy.  If one link dies you still have 
the other two.



How are you phasing the radios together without significant loss?

-Matt




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] remote power

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I have an Iboot.  I've heard of another brand that's more powerful and half 
the money but I don't have the info here.


Chuck, you on this list?

- Original Message - 
From: chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:57 PM
Subject: [WISPA] remote power



Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot
devices?



Thanks

Chris

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel

OK...Lets have a review..

It does not use the whole band.

It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel.  That 
makes it efficient...


It works for the application..

There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage.  My 
way of seeing it is as follows.


1.  I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep my 
beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance.  In NYC I 
consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less.


2. We use only the power we need to do the job.  Many of our links are 
running 0-5 dB of output at the radio.


3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent 
buildings to shield us from others.


4.  Interference happens.  We have not had any interference with FD 
constant carrier radios.  Period.


Another position is why should several users be allowed to use equipment 
that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and such??  How 
is that efficient  They are eating channels running a couple of 
megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD.  How about the WISP's that are 
using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over the place every time 
one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their system??  How is that 
spectrum efficency???  Or the guy that uses an omni and the 1 watt amp??? 

I can go on and on.  The spectrum is limited.  That sucks.  But business 
is business and it is important to do what is necessary to provide for 
your business at the most cost effective manner possible.  Is WalMart 
going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5  10 store on the 
next block???   Of course not.  And why??? Because they are serving the 
masses at a price that the masses want and that is what it takes to 
serve the masses.  Will some of the 510 operators go out of business 
because they can't compete??  Sure they will.  Its called competition. 
And that is just what Matt is doing.  If he has the demand then he needs 
to do what is necessary.  If his business model does not allow him to 
purchase expensive licensed equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment 
then so be it.  That's business.


I came from the 2 way radio industry.  I fought the beast (Nextel) for 
several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry.  I was 
somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and 
Government accounts.  We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to 
fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 
business customers were home sleeping.  When nextel killed 2-way 
dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public safety 
and Govt customer equip.  The labor rate went from $100 per hour to $40 
per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of business. Am I 
upset???  Sure.  Did I plan for my future??  Sure.  We turned on big 
time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't even know about 
it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel monster. Am I going to be 
able to do what I am doing forever???  Of course not.  I am already 
planning my next transition.


If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from now 
I think you need to re-examine your business plan


I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it needs 
to be real food for thought.  If I was in business and i needed 100 Mb 
FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going to spend 
extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone else in the 
future.


PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY ANYONE.  
So please don't say I am


Good luck!

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel
BTW::  While we are talking responsibility and efficiency how many of 
you guys and gals drive SUV's, Pick-Up trucks, Vans and other 8 cylinder 
vehicles  Put your hands up.  You know who you are..


:-)

-B-


Bob Moldashel wrote:


OK...Lets have a review..

It does not use the whole band.

It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel.  
That makes it efficient...


It works for the application..

There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage.  
My way of seeing it is as follows.


1.  I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep 
my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance.  In NYC I 
consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less.


2. We use only the power we need to do the job.  Many of our links are 
running 0-5 dB of output at the radio.


3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent 
buildings to shield us from others.


4.  Interference happens.  We have not had any interference with FD 
constant carrier radios.  Period.


Another position is why should several users be allowed to use 
equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and 
such??  How is that efficient  They are eating channels running 
a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD.  How about the 
WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over 
the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their 
system??  How is that spectrum efficency???  Or the guy that uses an 
omni and the 1 watt amp???
I can go on and on.  The spectrum is limited.  That sucks.  But 
business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to 
provide for your business at the most cost effective manner possible.  
Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5  10 
store on the next block???   Of course not.  And why??? Because they 
are serving the masses at a price that the masses want and that is 
what it takes to serve the masses.  Will some of the 510 operators go 
out of business because they can't compete??  Sure they will.  Its 
called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing.  If he has 
the demand then he needs to do what is necessary.  If his business 
model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed equipment over 
cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it.  That's business.


I came from the 2 way radio industry.  I fought the beast (Nextel) for 
several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry.  I 
was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and 
Government accounts.  We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to 
fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 
business customers were home sleeping.  When nextel killed 2-way 
dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public 
safety and Govt customer equip.  The labor rate went from $100 per 
hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of 
business. Am I upset???  Sure.  Did I plan for my future??  Sure.  We 
turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't 
even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel 
monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever???  Of 
course not.  I am already planning my next transition.


If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from 
now I think you need to re-examine your business plan


I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it 
needs to be real food for thought.  If I was in business and i needed 
100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going 
to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone 
else in the future.


PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY 
ANYONE.  So please don't say I am


Good luck!

-B-




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

I thought that they did.  How much do they use?

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options




It doesn't use the entire band...




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Bob Moldashel

http://www.exaltcom.com/


BTW:  What kind of truck do you have   :-P





Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


I thought that they did.  How much do they use?

- Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options




It doesn't use the entire band...




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

Oh, you are gonna love this!

My truck is a '96 green Taurus wagon!  Lots of room with all the seats 
folded down.  It's easy to get the ladder on and off of.  Gets almost 20 mpg 
even with the ladder on top.  But oil pans are $500 a whack and I've got too 
many sites up in the sticks now so I need to get something different.  That 
and the 240,000 miles on this one.  LOL, all highway miles, I've only put 
ONE set of brakes on it!


I also have an old Dodge Ram 50 pickup.  Pickups don't work well for this 
stuff here though.  Too hard to get to the front of the bed, things get 
rained on, stuff gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter.  A 
van is really tall but still has low ground clearance, AND it wastes an 
amazing amount of vertical space.


I think my next one will be a Durango or something around that size though. 
I need the ground clearance too often.


My WIFE drives the 454cid 3/4 ton suburban!  Nothing like 8000 lbs of metal 
to keep my family safe on the roads.  grin  But she usually only drives 5 to 
7 miles per day so it's not as bad as you might think.  I still use far more 
gas than she does.  But I'll tell you what, when it's time to pull mom and 
dad's 28' house boat I've got the rig for it.  And when the weather really 
sucks a guy can chain up all 4 corners of the suburban and walk through all 
but the worst.  Next I'm gonna see if I can manage to find a snow plow for 
it.


BUT, when I drive it I don't use up both lanes!  Heck, it'll even fit (if I 
work at it :-) in a standard parking place!


laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options



http://www.exaltcom.com/


BTW:  What kind of truck do you have   :-P





Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


I thought that they did.  How much do they use?

- Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul optio




It doesn't use the entire band...




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


NOo

NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson

Bob,

I tried to downsize last year, but the Toyota Prius I bought just 
couldn't pull the 27ft enclosed snowmobile trailer with snowmobiles 
inside... so I went back to a Chevy with a 6.0L and 4x4. It gets 8mpg 
while towing... but the batteries don't overheat. :)


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:
BTW::  While we are talking responsibility and efficiency how many of 
you guys and gals drive SUV's, Pick-Up trucks, Vans and other 8 
cylinder vehicles  Put your hands up.  You know who you are..


:-)

-B-


Bob Moldashel wrote:


OK...Lets have a review..

It does not use the whole band.

It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel.  
That makes it efficient...


It works for the application..

There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage.  
My way of seeing it is as follows.


1.  I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep 
my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance.  In NYC I 
consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less.


2. We use only the power we need to do the job.  Many of our links 
are running 0-5 dB of output at the radio.


3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent 
buildings to shield us from others.


4.  Interference happens.  We have not had any interference with FD 
constant carrier radios.  Period.


Another position is why should several users be allowed to use 
equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and 
such??  How is that efficient  They are eating channels running 
a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD.  How about the 
WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over 
the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their 
system??  How is that spectrum efficency???  Or the guy that uses an 
omni and the 1 watt amp???
I can go on and on.  The spectrum is limited.  That sucks.  But 
business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to 
provide for your business at the most cost effective manner 
possible.  Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a 
little 5  10 store on the next block???   Of course not.  And why??? 
Because they are serving the masses at a price that the masses want 
and that is what it takes to serve the masses.  Will some of the 510 
operators go out of business because they can't compete??  Sure they 
will.  Its called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing.  
If he has the demand then he needs to do what is necessary.  If his 
business model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed 
equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it.  That's 
business.


I came from the 2 way radio industry.  I fought the beast (Nextel) 
for several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry.  
I was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety 
and Government accounts.  We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a 
Sunday to fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were 
doing 9-5 business customers were home sleeping.  When nextel killed 
2-way dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing 
Public safety and Govt customer equip.  The labor rate went from $100 
per hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of 
business. Am I upset???  Sure.  Did I plan for my future??  Sure.  We 
turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't 
even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel 
monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever???  Of 
course not.  I am already planning my next transition.


If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from 
now I think you need to re-examine your business plan


I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it 
needs to be real food for thought.  If I was in business and i needed 
100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am 
going to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with 
someone else in the future.


PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY 
ANYONE.  So please don't say I am


Good luck!

-B-





--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

2006-12-12 Thread Brad Belton
20mpg?  Big deal, I get pretty dang close to that (17-18mpg city) with my
foot the in floorboard of my Excursion.  This is my second Excursion...it is
fast approaching 150k miles and running strong as new.  Too bad Ford killed
it.

Of course it has the diesel with a few minor modifications...grin

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options

Oh, you are gonna love this!

My truck is a '96 green Taurus wagon!  Lots of room with all the seats 
folded down.  It's easy to get the ladder on and off of.  Gets almost 20 mpg

even with the ladder on top.  But oil pans are $500 a whack and I've got too

many sites up in the sticks now so I need to get something different.  That 
and the 240,000 miles on this one.  LOL, all highway miles, I've only put 
ONE set of brakes on it!

I also have an old Dodge Ram 50 pickup.  Pickups don't work well for this 
stuff here though.  Too hard to get to the front of the bed, things get 
rained on, stuff gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter.  A 
van is really tall but still has low ground clearance, AND it wastes an 
amazing amount of vertical space.

I think my next one will be a Durango or something around that size though. 
I need the ground clearance too often.

My WIFE drives the 454cid 3/4 ton suburban!  Nothing like 8000 lbs of metal 
to keep my family safe on the roads.  grin  But she usually only drives 5 to

7 miles per day so it's not as bad as you might think.  I still use far more

gas than she does.  But I'll tell you what, when it's time to pull mom and 
dad's 28' house boat I've got the rig for it.  And when the weather really 
sucks a guy can chain up all 4 corners of the suburban and walk through all 
but the worst.  Next I'm gonna see if I can manage to find a snow plow for 
it.

BUT, when I drive it I don't use up both lanes!  Heck, it'll even fit (if I 
work at it :-) in a standard parking place!

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options


 http://www.exaltcom.com/


 BTW:  What kind of truck do you have   :-P





 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 I thought that they did.  How much do they use?

 - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul optio



 It doesn't use the entire band...




 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

 NOo

 NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is 
 always on.  No more WMux fiascos needed.

 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
 wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



 -- 
 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 Broadband Deployment Group
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
 800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
 631-585-5558 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell

 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 -- 
 Bob Moldashel
 Lakeland Communications, Inc.
 Broadband Deployment Group
 1350 Lincoln Avenue
 Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
 800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
 631-585-5558 Fax
 516-551-1131 Cell

 -- 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/