Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Peter R.
You cannot expect others to take up your flag and run into a fight if 
you will not lead the way.




Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I hereby declare that I am NOT a facilities based provider, since I do not
have any physical point on my network that can be tapped, mirrored, probed,
or otherwise possible to intercept.   I have no equivalent to a switched
network.

There you have it.

We're putting my network your mouth is, folks.   Continually, there is the
statement that nobody will be requied to change their network.   We'll see
how true to their word the government is.  Trusting government's word is THE
definition of ultimate stupidity, but I have no other choice.  My prediction
is that those statements are only words, and it will ultimately be proven a
total lie.

Now, I HAVE a suggestion for LE for how to get information, and I'll be
happy to help them do it, but my particular network simply has NO possible
mechanism.  I have spent weeks trying to figure some possible way to meet
the definition of compliance but it isn't possible.

Of course, this is of no help to the poor people who now face serious
financial issues.   I regret that WISPA refuses to officially go to bat for
them.

For that matter,  I regret wasting WISPA's time.  You fine folks are now
reading my last post to anything related to WISPA and on any WISPA list.
When WISPA turned it's back on the small people, and started insisting that
defending right and good was no longer allowed by a mature industry,
defining mature as being absolutely blind to issues of right / wrong or
even recognition that government is overreaching, it lost my support.   When
it became downright hostile to the interests of us as people,  it set up
itself as something I am hostile to as a matter of principle.  As one of our
forefathers said, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  Not just
during speeches, not just as talking points during elections, but in EVERY
aspect of our lives, be it religious, business, political, social, and
educational.   When hostility to the notion of defending ourselves against
overreaching government is displayed for purposes of expedience or
convenience or ingratiating ourselves with those in power, then I cannot
in good conscience support or be associated.  Sorry.  If principle isn't
worth defending and upholding, it's not principle, just public stances.
I will never regret upholding principle, but I will certainly regret NOT.

I have very much enjoyed some of the conversations over the many moons, the
awesome character and generosity post Katrina displayed by so many, and some
of the great people I've conversed with and some of the most fascinating and
thought provoking discussions over the many months I have been here.

A few years ago, I would have probably kept my mouth shut and just gone
along.   But no more.  I have had more than enough.  I decided that I will
live, speak, and associate according to my best conscience.  It applies even
to my business and how I treat my customers.   My first taste of this was
when I turned down a job because it required me to violate my conscience.
I was unemployed and utterly broke.  Some thought me insane, but just days
later I had a real job, with pay dramatically exceeding the one I turned
down...and I got to live and work the highest ideals.

Seriously, folks...  It's been a fascinating ride, and I have no hostility
to any of you, though we disagree or agree or dont' even understand each
other.

I'll be easy enough to find elsewhere...  Just look for the fanaticly
devoted wireless and freedom advocate, and I'll be there.

Later, folks.


 



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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Smith, Rick
Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward the
homes ?

Interesting, but futile in the wind...

Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Now THAT's cool!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


 
http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic
s.pdf

 

 
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[WISPA] remote site enviro monitoring

2007-05-02 Thread Steve
Hi,
I'm looking for a small device capable of at least DC voltage and temp
monitoring with snmp for monitoring remote solar powered sites.
I've found this  http://www.akcpinc.com/company/sensorProbe2.htm but
wondering if anyone has any suggestions.
Thanks!
Steve
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Re: [WISPA] TRIVIA QUESTION

2007-05-02 Thread JohnnyO

Mac - call me - NOW !

337-764-5953 :)

JohnnyO


- Original Message - 
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] TRIVIA QUESTION



Wise guy eh? Nyuk nyuk

My ankles are actually sexier than in that picture. I was recovering from 
a

broken Tibia :-)

(Pay back is tough Harnish!)

Mac







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:54 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] TRIVIA QUESTION

What WISPA member is short, overweight, climbs towers, talks with an
accent,
writes with a unique flare, lost his hair, applies ointment to his tush 
on

a
regular basis and turns 45 tomorrow?  Need a hint, open the attachment.
It's a good thing his wife is a sweetheart.



Dang this is fun.



Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA





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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato
I didn't buy that one, but I did buy a 100 meg fd Plaintree FSO link a 
couple weeks ago. Should be here any day now.


From what I understand, most FSO has very little tolerance. Things like 
vibration can interrupt the links connectivity. Although Plaintree 
specifically said it did not effect their system.


Smith, Rick wrote:

Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward the
homes ?

Interesting, but futile in the wind...

Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Now THAT's cool!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:21 PM

Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


 
http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic

s.pdf

 

 


--
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Tom DeReggi
Take note the beamwidth of that FSO device is 30 degrees. (And distance 350 
feet).

At 30 degress, it will compete with any wireless device.

Correction: Nifty tool for any Internet Provider needing to make a high 
capacity connection 250 feet away.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


I didn't buy that one, but I did buy a 100 meg fd Plaintree FSO link a 
couple weeks ago. Should be here any day now.


From what I understand, most FSO has very little tolerance. Things like 
vibration can interrupt the links connectivity. Although Plaintree 
specifically said it did not effect their system.


Smith, Rick wrote:

Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward the
homes ?

Interesting, but futile in the wind...

Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Now THAT's cool!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 
30, 2007 10:21 PM

Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


 http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic
s.pdf




--
George Rogato

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www.wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread JohnnyO
Exactly my thoughts - I value Mark's opinion and insight - but his opinion / 
insight does me absolutely no good if he will not stay the course.


Mark - I feel you are doing yourself and 100s if not 1000s of others an 
injustice by leaving.


I personally feel you are a friend and someone I've enjoyed hearing from on 
these lists... Don't be a well I can't say that word here and leave.


JohnnyO


- Original Message - 
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.


You cannot expect others to take up your flag and run into a fight if you 
will not lead the way.




Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I hereby declare that I am NOT a facilities based provider, since I do not
have any physical point on my network that can be tapped, mirrored, 
probed,

or otherwise possible to intercept.   I have no equivalent to a switched
network.

There you have it.

We're putting my network your mouth is, folks.   Continually, there is the
statement that nobody will be requied to change their network.   We'll see
how true to their word the government is.  Trusting government's word is 
THE
definition of ultimate stupidity, but I have no other choice.  My 
prediction
is that those statements are only words, and it will ultimately be proven 
a

total lie.

Now, I HAVE a suggestion for LE for how to get information, and I'll be
happy to help them do it, but my particular network simply has NO possible
mechanism.  I have spent weeks trying to figure some possible way to meet
the definition of compliance but it isn't possible.

Of course, this is of no help to the poor people who now face serious
financial issues.   I regret that WISPA refuses to officially go to bat 
for

them.

For that matter,  I regret wasting WISPA's time.  You fine folks are now
reading my last post to anything related to WISPA and on any WISPA list.
When WISPA turned it's back on the small people, and started insisting 
that

defending right and good was no longer allowed by a mature industry,
defining mature as being absolutely blind to issues of right / wrong or
even recognition that government is overreaching, it lost my support. 
When

it became downright hostile to the interests of us as people,  it set up
itself as something I am hostile to as a matter of principle.  As one of 
our

forefathers said, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  Not just
during speeches, not just as talking points during elections, but in EVERY
aspect of our lives, be it religious, business, political, social, and
educational.   When hostility to the notion of defending ourselves against
overreaching government is displayed for purposes of expedience or
convenience or ingratiating ourselves with those in power, then I cannot
in good conscience support or be associated.  Sorry.  If principle isn't
worth defending and upholding, it's not principle, just public stances.
I will never regret upholding principle, but I will certainly regret NOT.

I have very much enjoyed some of the conversations over the many moons, 
the
awesome character and generosity post Katrina displayed by so many, and 
some
of the great people I've conversed with and some of the most fascinating 
and

thought provoking discussions over the many months I have been here.

A few years ago, I would have probably kept my mouth shut and just gone
along.   But no more.  I have had more than enough.  I decided that I will
live, speak, and associate according to my best conscience.  It applies 
even

to my business and how I treat my customers.   My first taste of this was
when I turned down a job because it required me to violate my conscience.
I was unemployed and utterly broke.  Some thought me insane, but just days
later I had a real job, with pay dramatically exceeding the one I turned
down...and I got to live and work the highest ideals.

Seriously, folks...  It's been a fascinating ride, and I have no hostility
to any of you, though we disagree or agree or dont' even understand each
other.

I'll be easy enough to find elsewhere...  Just look for the fanaticly
devoted wireless and freedom advocate, and I'll be there.

Later, folks.





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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Smith, Rick

Anyone know how much $$$ ?  I've got an application for it, actually. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Take note the beamwidth of that FSO device is 30 degrees. (And distance
350 feet).
At 30 degress, it will compete with any wireless device.

Correction: Nifty tool for any Internet Provider needing to make a high
capacity connection 250 feet away.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


I didn't buy that one, but I did buy a 100 meg fd Plaintree FSO link a 
couple weeks ago. Should be here any day now.

 From what I understand, most FSO has very little tolerance. Things
like 
 vibration can interrupt the links connectivity. Although Plaintree 
 specifically said it did not effect their system.

 Smith, Rick wrote:
 Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward
the
 homes ?

 Interesting, but futile in the wind...

 Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

 Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

 Now THAT's cool!
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday,
April 
 30, 2007 10:21 PM
 Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops



http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic
 s.pdf



 -- 
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 www.wispa.org

 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Zack Kneisley

These guys know their stuff when it comes to FSO

http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/products_serviceprovider.htm

Zack
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Dawn DiPietro

George,

I am under the impression there is an FSO solution out there that has an 
auto align mechanism that overcomes the sway associated with cable and 
tower mounts. I would be interested to know if this is how Plaintree 
deals with this issue.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

George Rogato wrote:
I didn't buy that one, but I did buy a 100 meg fd Plaintree FSO link a 
couple weeks ago. Should be here any day now.


From what I understand, most FSO has very little tolerance. Things 
like vibration can interrupt the links connectivity. Although 
Plaintree specifically said it did not effect their system.


Smith, Rick wrote:

Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward the
homes ?

Interesting, but futile in the wind...

Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Now THAT's cool!
marlon

- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:21 PM

Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


 
http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic

s.pdf


 




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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Carl A jeptha

Mark,
It is people like you who made your country and people like you who 
defended your country. Always remember why you stand your ground. I 
stood my ground, had to leave the country for my family's safety (An 
loaded Uzi (mine) and a baby diaper bag (my new-born baby) together, 
finally got to me. I have returned and almost cried when I saw what has 
happened and the apathy of the people (how can a black man say life was 
better under the white man's oppression). But they are free - does 
free mean you can make a cross on a ballot paper, but have no food to 
feed your family.


So all of you stand up, remember why the rest of the world use to admire 
your country and desire to live in your country where dreams do come true


Remember, how late your country came into WWII. The general populace 
were convinced by a few that it was not their war. Then remember the 
anger after Pearl Harbour.


Enough, I am rambling on a work morning.

You have a Good Day now,


Carl A Jeptha
http://www.airnet.ca
Office Phone: 905 349-2084
Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm
skype cajeptha



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I hereby declare that I am NOT a facilities based provider, since I do not
have any physical point on my network that can be tapped, mirrored, probed,
or otherwise possible to intercept.   I have no equivalent to a switched
network.

There you have it.

We're putting my network your mouth is, folks.   Continually, there is the
statement that nobody will be requied to change their network.   We'll see
how true to their word the government is.  Trusting government's word is THE
definition of ultimate stupidity, but I have no other choice.  My prediction
is that those statements are only words, and it will ultimately be proven a
total lie.

Now, I HAVE a suggestion for LE for how to get information, and I'll be
happy to help them do it, but my particular network simply has NO possible
mechanism.  I have spent weeks trying to figure some possible way to meet
the definition of compliance but it isn't possible.

Of course, this is of no help to the poor people who now face serious
financial issues.   I regret that WISPA refuses to officially go to bat for
them.

For that matter,  I regret wasting WISPA's time.  You fine folks are now
reading my last post to anything related to WISPA and on any WISPA list.
When WISPA turned it's back on the small people, and started insisting that
defending right and good was no longer allowed by a mature industry,
defining mature as being absolutely blind to issues of right / wrong or
even recognition that government is overreaching, it lost my support.   When
it became downright hostile to the interests of us as people,  it set up
itself as something I am hostile to as a matter of principle.  As one of our
forefathers said, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  Not just
during speeches, not just as talking points during elections, but in EVERY
aspect of our lives, be it religious, business, political, social, and
educational.   When hostility to the notion of defending ourselves against
overreaching government is displayed for purposes of expedience or
convenience or ingratiating ourselves with those in power, then I cannot
in good conscience support or be associated.  Sorry.  If principle isn't
worth defending and upholding, it's not principle, just public stances.
I will never regret upholding principle, but I will certainly regret NOT.

I have very much enjoyed some of the conversations over the many moons, the
awesome character and generosity post Katrina displayed by so many, and some
of the great people I've conversed with and some of the most fascinating and
thought provoking discussions over the many months I have been here.

A few years ago, I would have probably kept my mouth shut and just gone
along.   But no more.  I have had more than enough.  I decided that I will
live, speak, and associate according to my best conscience.  It applies even
to my business and how I treat my customers.   My first taste of this was
when I turned down a job because it required me to violate my conscience.
I was unemployed and utterly broke.  Some thought me insane, but just days
later I had a real job, with pay dramatically exceeding the one I turned
down...and I got to live and work the highest ideals.

Seriously, folks...  It's been a fascinating ride, and I have no hostility
to any of you, though we disagree or agree or dont' even understand each
other.

I'll be easy enough to find elsewhere...  Just look for the fanaticly
devoted wireless and freedom advocate, and I'll be there.

Later, folks.


  

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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Stephen Patrick
Zack, you flatter us!

Seriously, answering a few questions that were voiced
- 30degrees is very wide for FSO - the link budgets for 350feet (~100m)
would normally entail a narrower beam.
- I don't believe Plaintree use automatic tracking, but they could speak for
themselves of course
- Automatic tracking is needed for narrow beam (~1mRad) systems because
buildings move more than that.

Without trying to make a commercial pitch, our co. does both fixed wide-beam
and tracked systems for a variety of applications.
Have a look here if you want to see a demonstrator of an aerospace solution
for mobile platforms:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4945168689485668209pr=goog-sl
It has full 360degree mobile tracking and in the demo is doing 1.25Gbps
Gigabit Ethernet on/off the vehicle.

For the cableco application, that's interesting, and we do have very low
cost, stable widebeam systems that can be used exactly for that.

Best regards

Stephen

-Original Message-
From: Zack Kneisley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 02 May 2007 16:05
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

These guys know their stuff when it comes to FSO

http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/products_serviceprovider.htm

Zack
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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Brad Belton
Very cool video Stephen!

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stephen Patrick
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:56 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Zack, you flatter us!

Seriously, answering a few questions that were voiced
- 30degrees is very wide for FSO - the link budgets for 350feet (~100m)
would normally entail a narrower beam.
- I don't believe Plaintree use automatic tracking, but they could speak for
themselves of course
- Automatic tracking is needed for narrow beam (~1mRad) systems because
buildings move more than that.

Without trying to make a commercial pitch, our co. does both fixed wide-beam
and tracked systems for a variety of applications.
Have a look here if you want to see a demonstrator of an aerospace solution
for mobile platforms:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4945168689485668209pr=goog-sl
It has full 360degree mobile tracking and in the demo is doing 1.25Gbps
Gigabit Ethernet on/off the vehicle.

For the cableco application, that's interesting, and we do have very low
cost, stable widebeam systems that can be used exactly for that.

Best regards

Stephen

-Original Message-
From: Zack Kneisley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 02 May 2007 16:05
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

These guys know their stuff when it comes to FSO

http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/products_serviceprovider.htm

Zack
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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Brad Belton
BTW, how is the 80GHz system coming along?  Any information you can share
yet?

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stephen Patrick
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:56 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Zack, you flatter us!

Seriously, answering a few questions that were voiced
- 30degrees is very wide for FSO - the link budgets for 350feet (~100m)
would normally entail a narrower beam.
- I don't believe Plaintree use automatic tracking, but they could speak for
themselves of course
- Automatic tracking is needed for narrow beam (~1mRad) systems because
buildings move more than that.

Without trying to make a commercial pitch, our co. does both fixed wide-beam
and tracked systems for a variety of applications.
Have a look here if you want to see a demonstrator of an aerospace solution
for mobile platforms:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4945168689485668209pr=goog-sl
It has full 360degree mobile tracking and in the demo is doing 1.25Gbps
Gigabit Ethernet on/off the vehicle.

For the cableco application, that's interesting, and we do have very low
cost, stable widebeam systems that can be used exactly for that.

Best regards

Stephen

-Original Message-
From: Zack Kneisley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 02 May 2007 16:05
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

These guys know their stuff when it comes to FSO

http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/products_serviceprovider.htm

Zack
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RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Stephen Patrick
Hi Brad,

Quick answer is Shipping ... 
And legal/FCC certified as well as UK OFCOM approved .. And we have
reference installations too.
The model we recommend is 70GHz and there are 100Mbps and Gigabit Ethernet
versions, and 30 and 60cm antenna options
Interface fibre LC with MM and SM options.
Any info you need, glad to send.

Best regards

Stephen 

-Original Message-
From: Brad Belton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 02 May 2007 17:04
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

BTW, how is the 80GHz system coming along?  Any information you can share
yet?

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stephen Patrick
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:56 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Zack, you flatter us!

Seriously, answering a few questions that were voiced
- 30degrees is very wide for FSO - the link budgets for 350feet (~100m)
would normally entail a narrower beam.
- I don't believe Plaintree use automatic tracking, but they could speak for
themselves of course
- Automatic tracking is needed for narrow beam (~1mRad) systems because
buildings move more than that.

Without trying to make a commercial pitch, our co. does both fixed wide-beam
and tracked systems for a variety of applications.
Have a look here if you want to see a demonstrator of an aerospace solution
for mobile platforms:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4945168689485668209pr=goog-sl
It has full 360degree mobile tracking and in the demo is doing 1.25Gbps
Gigabit Ethernet on/off the vehicle.

For the cableco application, that's interesting, and we do have very low
cost, stable widebeam systems that can be used exactly for that.

Best regards

Stephen

-Original Message-
From: Zack Kneisley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 02 May 2007 16:05
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

These guys know their stuff when it comes to FSO

http://www.cablefreesolutions.com/products_serviceprovider.htm

Zack
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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread JohnnyO

Carl - yes stop now - before you start drinking ! :)

I placed an upside down flag of your current country on a tower Im working 
on ! (me ducks)


JohnnyO
- Original Message - 
From: Carl A jeptha [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.



Mark,
It is people like you who made your country and people like you who 
defended your country. Always remember why you stand your ground. I stood 
my ground, had to leave the country for my family's safety (An loaded Uzi 
(mine) and a baby diaper bag (my new-born baby) together, finally got to 
me. I have returned and almost cried when I saw what has happened and the 
apathy of the people (how can a black man say life was better under the 
white man's oppression). But they are free - does free mean you can 
make a cross on a ballot paper, but have no food to feed your family.


So all of you stand up, remember why the rest of the world use to admire 
your country and desire to live in your country where dreams do come 
true


Remember, how late your country came into WWII. The general populace were 
convinced by a few that it was not their war. Then remember the anger 
after Pearl Harbour.


Enough, I am rambling on a work morning.

You have a Good Day now,


Carl A Jeptha
http://www.airnet.ca
Office Phone: 905 349-2084
Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm
skype cajeptha



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
I hereby declare that I am NOT a facilities based provider, since I do 
not
have any physical point on my network that can be tapped, mirrored, 
probed,
or otherwise possible to intercept.   I have no equivalent to a 
switched

network.

There you have it.

We're putting my network your mouth is, folks.   Continually, there is 
the
statement that nobody will be requied to change their network.   We'll 
see
how true to their word the government is.  Trusting government's word is 
THE
definition of ultimate stupidity, but I have no other choice.  My 
prediction
is that those statements are only words, and it will ultimately be proven 
a

total lie.

Now, I HAVE a suggestion for LE for how to get information, and I'll be
happy to help them do it, but my particular network simply has NO 
possible

mechanism.  I have spent weeks trying to figure some possible way to meet
the definition of compliance but it isn't possible.

Of course, this is of no help to the poor people who now face serious
financial issues.   I regret that WISPA refuses to officially go to bat 
for

them.

For that matter,  I regret wasting WISPA's time.  You fine folks are now
reading my last post to anything related to WISPA and on any WISPA list.
When WISPA turned it's back on the small people, and started insisting 
that

defending right and good was no longer allowed by a mature industry,
defining mature as being absolutely blind to issues of right / wrong or
even recognition that government is overreaching, it lost my support. 
When

it became downright hostile to the interests of us as people,  it set up
itself as something I am hostile to as a matter of principle.  As one of 
our

forefathers said, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  Not just
during speeches, not just as talking points during elections, but in 
EVERY

aspect of our lives, be it religious, business, political, social, and
educational.   When hostility to the notion of defending ourselves 
against

overreaching government is displayed for purposes of expedience or
convenience or ingratiating ourselves with those in power, then I 
cannot

in good conscience support or be associated.  Sorry.  If principle isn't
worth defending and upholding, it's not principle, just public stances.
I will never regret upholding principle, but I will certainly regret NOT.

I have very much enjoyed some of the conversations over the many moons, 
the
awesome character and generosity post Katrina displayed by so many, and 
some
of the great people I've conversed with and some of the most fascinating 
and

thought provoking discussions over the many months I have been here.

A few years ago, I would have probably kept my mouth shut and just gone
along.   But no more.  I have had more than enough.  I decided that I 
will
live, speak, and associate according to my best conscience.  It applies 
even

to my business and how I treat my customers.   My first taste of this was
when I turned down a job because it required me to violate my conscience.
I was unemployed and utterly broke.  Some thought me insane, but just 
days

later I had a real job, with pay dramatically exceeding the one I turned
down...and I got to live and work the highest ideals.

Seriously, folks...  It's been a fascinating ride, and I have no 
hostility

to any of you, though we disagree or agree or dont' even understand each
other.

I'll be easy enough to find elsewhere...  Just look for the fanaticly
devoted wireless and freedom advocate, and I'll be there.


Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181


- Original Message - 
From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:19 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward the
homes ?

Interesting, but futile in the wind...

mks:  Did you see the 20 to 30* vertical pattern?  Those units are kinda 
heavy, it'll take a pretty strong wind to cause a 20* swing.  I'm sure it'll 
happen from time to time, but not likely for days on end.  Probably 
fractions of a second.


Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

mks:  Sure.  Unless you have to try to get a permit to cross a road, river, 
train track etc.


Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Now THAT's cool!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops



http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic
s.pdf




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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
I've known of plaintree for years.  Heck, I'm probably still a sales geek on 
their books :-).


The gear works well from what I'm told.  It has different plus and minus vs. 
laser.  I keep thinking of putting some in for my short backhaul links.  The 
problem is that RF keeps getting cheaper and faster :-)


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


I didn't buy that one, but I did buy a 100 meg fd Plaintree FSO link a 
couple weeks ago. Should be here any day now.


From what I understand, most FSO has very little tolerance. Things like 
vibration can interrupt the links connectivity. Although Plaintree 
specifically said it did not effect their system.


Smith, Rick wrote:

Hrm.  Designed to mount ON the cable at the street and point toward the
homes ?

Interesting, but futile in the wind...

Isn't it more expensive than a coax run to the home ?  LOL.

Hey Cable companies, buy these things and put 'em everywhere

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

Now THAT's cool!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 
30, 2007 10:21 PM

Subject: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops


 http://www.lindsaybroadbandinc.com/product.line/fleex/pdf/FreeSpaceOptic
s.pdf




--
George Rogato

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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Zack Kneisley

Finally, a 1 Paragraph sentence that sums it all up.

Zack

On 5/2/07, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Go get a job, fund your business and grow bigger and faster.  Whining to us
feels good but it fixes nothing.  And, it's preaching to the choir.  Most of
us here AGREE with your point, however, the fact remains that we have to do
certain things so that's where the effort is going.  The time for changing
minds is long past.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam


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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Blair Davis

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small broadband 
company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my congressional Rep 
Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.


--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Blair Davis

you bet!

I've voted for him for 20 odd years.  And his office helped me once with
the VA.


Peter R. wrote:

Blair Davis wrote:


FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.



Did you contact Upton to support his view?



--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC


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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small broadband 
company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my congressional Rep 
Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.




--
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www.wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Nifty new tool for the cable ops

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato



Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

mks:  Sure.  Unless you have to try to get a permit to cross a road, 
river, train track etc.



Bingo
I would like to have a 100megs fd and there is only two ways, fiber or 
optical. I prefer fiber, but it's not so simple and needs a bit of work 
to get the fiber done right.


So this was a simple $5k solution to go across the street. 100 meg FD 
internet feed is a handy thing to have in a small rural town like here.


--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.

2007-05-02 Thread Zack Kneisley

Mark

I would have to say the consensus (and common-sense) way is that
someone is us (the WISPS that buy FCC certified devices). If a product
does not perform as well as another and they have both been put to
adhere to the same guidelines as mandated by the FCC, does not then
the burden fall to the manufacturers to manufacture products that work
well by having an increased sensitivity and adjacent channel
rejection? Poor quality - low sales -  | Excellent quality - high
sales.

If you want a Consumers Reports magazine on wireless equipment -
well, that might be a good business to get into.  ..hmm


On 4/30/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't think Mark is asking the FCC to specify these quality levels, just
stating that someone needs to.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message -
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] was School WiFi , about technical values.


 Mark,

 I'm going to reply but this will be my last reply on this subject. I don't
 want to exceed my 5 posts per day limit any more than necessary. :)

 Yes, I understand about receiver selectivity. I've also taught over 2000
 WISP personnel about it since 2001. I also wrote a (vendor-neutral) book
 about proper broadband wireless network design and deployment. The book
 has a heavy emphasis on explaining how wireless works. One entire chapter
 is devoted to evaluating and selecting wireless equipment.

\snip crap
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[WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Travis Johnson
Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.





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Re: NOW: CALEA Waiver Request WAS: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Zack Kneisley

I'll contact my Rep also, as well as get our mayor and mayors of my
other areas to call or write him as well to endorse this.

On 5/2/07, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blair,

That is excellent news.

Do you have any kind of a reference number for this waiver request so I
can ask my Representative to endorse and/or support this activity?

Thanks,
 jack


Blair Davis wrote:
 FYI

 Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small broadband
 company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my congressional Rep
 Fred Upton (R-MI)

 Thought some would like to know.



--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification Assistance for Wireless Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Matt Liotta

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.

Does anyone think this bill is actually going to get done in time for 
the deadline?


-Matt

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[WISPA] CALEA Question

2007-05-02 Thread David Peterson
As I am finding myself back into sales, I have a question concerning CALEA.  I 
just read this blurb:

The “facilities-based” terminology was meant to include providers offering 
connectivity infrastructure between end users and the Internet. However, 
establishments that acquire broadband Internet access service from a 
facilities-based provider to enable their customers to access the Internet from 
their respective establishments are excluded. The FCC explicitly exempted 
retail providers such as those offering hot spot WiFi (News - Alert) service 
where the actual Internet connectivity is obtained from another provider

From this site:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/calea1.htm

This would indicate to me that if you are a retail provider, i.e. you buy your 
broadband from someone else and resell it to your customers, that you are 
exempt.  This would suggest that the onus is on your provider to monitor your 
T-1 or other connection to them in the event of a need for a tap.

Any clarity on this would be great.



WirelessGuys
David Peterson
Senior Wireless Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
207 W. Los Angeles Avenue, Suite 300
Moorpark, CA 93021-1862
tel: 800-945-3294
mobile: 979.224.4192
AIM: ultramesh inc
Skype ID:nexuswirelessusa




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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Zack Kneisley

If not it would void our need for compliance when it passes. In other
words, it's sure worth a shot.


On 5/2/07, Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

George Rogato wrote:
 Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.

Does anyone think this bill is actually going to get done in time for
the deadline?

-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Tim Kerns
Speaking of CALEA Statements. how many receive the newsletter from 
NetEqualizer? I thought it was really direct and straight forward, 
specifically about compliance


My disclaimer:  I don't have any connection to Netequalizer, I don't even 
have one of their products. Tim



The following QA will address NetEqualizer's capabilities in reference to 
CALEA compliance.



1. Functionally, what does the Netequalizer CALEA release provide?

We provide a network probe with the following capabilities:

 a.. It will allow an ISP or other operator to comply with a basic warrant 
for information about a user by capturing and sending IP communications in 
real time to a third party.

 b.. Communication may be captured by headers or headers and content.


2. In what format is the data portion sent to a law enforcement agency?

We will provide basic descriptive tags identifying headers, data, and time 
stamps, along with HEX or ASCII representation of content data.




3. Do you meet the standards of the receiving law enforcement agency?

The law and specifications on how to deliver to a law enforcement agency 
are somewhat ambiguous. The FBI has created some detailed specifications, 
but the reality is that there are some 40,000 law enforcement agencies and 
they are given autonomy on how they receive data. We do provide samples on 
how to receive NetEqualizer-captured data on a third party server, but are 
unable to guarantee definite compliance with any specific agency.




4. Does the NetEqualizer do any analysis of the data?

No. We are only providing a probe function.



5. Is the NetEqualizer release fully CALEA compliant?

Although the law (see CALEA sections 103 and 107(a)(2)) is fairly specific 
on what needs to be done, the how is not addressed to any level of detail to 
which we can engineer our solution. Many people are following the ATIS 
specification which was put forth by the FBI, and we have read and attempted 
to comply with the probe portion of that specification. But, the reality is 
that there is no one agency given the authority to test a solution and bless 
it as compliant. So, if faced with a warrant for information, the law 
enforcement agency in charge may indeed want something in slightly different 
formats. If this is the case, there may be additional consulting.


As best we can tell at this time, there is no one government agency that can 
fully declare our technology CALEA compliant. However, we do pledge to work 
with our customers should they be faced with a warrant for information to 
adjust and even customize our solution; however additional fees may apply.



For more information on NetEqualizer and CALEA, visit our extended QA page 
at http:// www.netequalizer.com/caleafaq.php. Additional information on 
CALEA itself can be found at http://www.askcalea.org.


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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Matt Liotta

Zack Kneisley wrote:

If not it would void our need for compliance when it passes. In other
words, it's sure worth a shot.


You are still have the problem of getting fined in the meantime.

-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Many of the Congress Critters don't give out real email addys...they only
take emails using the forms on their websites. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA task

Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all the
congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing list.
Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.

It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing minds
is past, wasn't it? ;)

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:
 Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


 Blair Davis wrote:
 FYI

 Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
 broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
 congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)

 Thought some would like to know.



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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Jack Unger
Consider it done. Here's a link to the page where everyone can locate 
their representative and send them email.


http://www.house.gov/writerep/


Yes, when it comes to dealing with the government, the time is never 
past for changing minds. The government's job is to respond to the needs 
of the people. When enough citizens request review and revision of the 
rules, the government must either respond or be voted out of office. 
Government is plenty responsive... as long as the citizens make their 
desires be known.


jack


Travis Johnson wrote:
Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.






--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification Assistance for Wireless Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] need service in Bradenton, Fl

2007-05-02 Thread Zack Kneisley

Build me a 1200 ft tower and I will peer with anyone that can see me!  :-)

On 4/27/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Travis, and all.

If this were in MY area YOU could service that customer!  How cool is that.

I'm tellin ya, if you want a cell phone type value (or something at least
better than the average isp) we have to find a way to build national
coverage.  And that means cooperation with other wisps.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: [WISPA] need service in Bradenton, Fl


 Contact me offlist. -RickG
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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Jack Unger
No. But on the other hand, if we ask for nothing then that is what we 
will get, or, as I've heard it said:


If you don't ask, then the answer is NO.


Government rules and regulations are constantly changed and amended and 
selectively enforced to respond to the needs of constituents.


Congress can't read our minds. Most of our representatives don't even 
know that we exist. We need to educate them that:


1. We're here (in their District).

2. We're serving the broadband needs of their constituents.

3. CALEA requirements are unreasonable and need to be reviewed and 
modified to allow small WISPs to stay in business.


4. We need their help and support for this CALEA review.

If we fail to educate our Congress representatives then we have no one 
to blame but ourselves for the fact that the FCC has unwisely chosen to 
treat small WISPs like they treat ATT (as a bottomless money pit that 
can afford to do anything to stay in business).


Either we:

1. Take action to right the wrong, or

2. We whine endlessly about how screwed up our government is.

Take your choice,
  jack



Matt Liotta wrote:

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.

Does anyone think this bill is actually going to get done in time for 
the deadline?


-Matt



--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
FCC Part 15 Certification Assistance for Wireless Service Providers
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com


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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread JohnnyO

I agree - Marlon - it's never too late to change laws or minds.

What could I contribute in order to help see this through ?

JohnnyO
- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA task


Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.





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[WISPA] Sample letter to your representatives

2007-05-02 Thread Ty Carter Lightwave Communications
This is a sample copy of what I just sent my representative Use it,
edit it, discard it... just send something...

Also, please don't bombard me with what you think I should have or
should not have stated I'm just trying to give others a starting
point of something they can elaborate on..

http://www.house.gov/writerep/


Sample Letter:


I would like to take a moment to urge you to support an upcoming piece
of legislation being introduced by Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI); this
legislation should exempt small broadband and wireless internet
providers from the undue burden and expense of being CALEA (Carrier
Assistance for Law Enforcement Agencies) compliant.

The financial implications of this compliance request can easily cost
$1000's of dollars a month for a solution that meets the compliance
requirements;

As a rural provider of Internet services we are doing good to make a
small profit, as the broadband offerings are becoming more and more less
expensive, the margins are continually narrowing.  Having to become
CALEA compliant, will throw is into a potential financial turmoil.

In the past 10 years, we have never been served with a wiretap request.
We service some 400 people in Eastern North Carolina and can not afford
the requirements that have been placed on our ISP.

Please support this legislation by co-sponsoring or endorsing this
measure.  I'm not aware of the HR number, but have been told it is
coming.

Regards,

Thomas Carter

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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Frank Muto

FYI.
Letter writing tips from our ISPCON Spring 2005 conference program.

The letter is the most popular choice of communication with a congressional 
office. When writing, use fax or e-mail due to the delays of mail delivery 
resulting from the threat of Anthrax and other bio hazards. Write your 
letter on professional letterhead. Be sure to include your full name, 
address, phone number and request a reply.


Your letter will be read by an aide.  While legislators themselves are 
usually not able to read all of the correspondence sent to their offices, 
that does not mean your letter will not have an impact.  Congressional 
Representatives rely heavily on their aides to provide them with concise and 
thorough information.  Aides keep a running tally of letters received for or 
against a given position and report the results regularly to the 
Congressperson.  A well-written, thought provoking letter can educate an 
aide, thereby influencing the legislator.


1.The purpose of your letter should be stated in the first paragraph.
2.Make the topic clear in your first sentence.  For example; I'm writing to 
ask your support of.
3.Give reasons for your position and include personal experience or concrete 
examples.
4.Use your own words and experiences.  Personal letters and real stories are 
more compelling.

5.Ask a question.  By doing so you may receive a personal response.
6.A one-page letter is best.  Only write a longer letter if necessary for 
clarity.

7.Be polite, positive and constructive.  Don't plead and never threaten.
8.Stay on topic.  If you have other issues write another letter pertinent to 
that topic.




Frank Muto
President
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
Co-founder WBIA - Washington Bureau for ISP Advocacy
Postini Partner






- Original Message - 
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA task


Consider it done. Here's a link to the page where everyone can locate 
their representative and send them email.


http://www.house.gov/writerep/


Yes, when it comes to dealing with the government, the time is never past 
for changing minds. The government's job is to respond to the needs of the 
people. When enough citizens request review and revision of the rules, the 
government must either respond or be voted out of office. Government is 
plenty responsive... as long as the citizens make their desires be known.


jack


Travis Johnson wrote:
Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all the 
congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing list. 
Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small broadband 
company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my congressional Rep 
Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.






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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Jason

Gang,

   Congress.org has a spot to enter your zip and then takes you to a 
form to email all the elected officials in your district.  I found it 
when I was googling Rep Bart Stupak + CALEA because someone else had 
already wrote their reps asking them for endorsement!  So I did too.


Jason

Travis Johnson wrote:
Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.





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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Sam Tetherow
Gee Marlon, this sounds a lot like the debate between you and Travis 
except you are on the other side ;)


Quite honestly I don't blame Mark K at all.  He has been trying to do 
here what everyone has been whining at him to do but no one seems to 
want to listen to it.


He has been trying to rally the members of this list and WISPA to stand 
up to what he feels is an unjust ruling by the FCC.  He has tried to 
oppose it on several levels, from a it's not fair to the little guy 
standpoint such as you are attacking here, to a it's not 
constitutional standpoint which gets him called a paranoid 
anti-government crackpot.  For the most part he has been answered by 
personal attacks despite his taking the high road in trying to argue the 
issues.  People have even gone so far as suggest a limit on posting and 
that he has ruined the usefulness of the list.


Yet it seems to me that both Jack Unger and Matt Liotta do understand 
the unfair to the little guy standpoint and have posted about it 
without all the uproar that Mark gets. 

As for me, I'm taking a pragmatic approach.  I have utilized the deal 
that WISPA worked with Kris T and I plan to comply to the best of my 
ability with any legal subpeona.  If what I am able to do is not good 
enough I'll fire the customer, which I assume will get me in trouble, be 
fined $10K a day and go out of business.  I honestly don't see any other 
alternative for someone of my resources and I am sure there are plenty 
of us out here in this boat.


Marlon can make all the guarantees about the FAQ he wants but until the 
law reads in agreement with the FAQ it is just a handshake deal with 
people from the FBI and FCC who don't have power to set policy anyway.  
If we were talking about POP agreements I don't think anyone on this 
list would think it would be acceptable business practice to rely  on a 
verbal agreement for access to a tower, yet this is what the FAQ really 
is. 

I'm not trying to put down what the CALEA team did or that the FAQ is 
useless, but when non-compliance becomes an issue it is not the FAQ that 
is going to stand in a court of law, it is the CALEA rules and regulations.


I for one agree almost 100% with everything Mark has said, but then 
again I am a right wing extremist crackpot who believes in much the same 
things the founding fathers did.


I look forward to having this debate over beers at ISPCON this spring 
with anyone who wants to have it.  Yes, through the generousity of Peter 
R who provided me with a full conference pass, those going will have to 
put up with me ;)


Sorry to see Mark K. go if he really does leave.  He has had some very 
good ideas and I've looked forward to reading his opinion on many of 
these topics as I have come to value his insights.


(Sorry this post was so long, there was plenty more I had to say but I 
hate long winded posts, thanks for reading this far...)


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Mark, not picking on you here.

But.

If you were to quit typing out reams of emails and worked on getting 
more customers you'd be able to deal with the problem better.


OR, if you, like sometimes happens to us, are outgrowing your 
cashflow, go get a part time job to help fund your business.  Many of 
us here have done side work.  Heck, some of us still do!


All of this has been a fun discussion but it's pointless beyond a 
certain point (probably days ago :-).  You can whine about it all you 
want.  Still gotta do it.


Go get a job, fund your business and grow bigger and faster.  Whining 
to us feels good but it fixes nothing.  And, it's preaching to the 
choir.  Most of us here AGREE with your point, however, the fact 
remains that we have to do certain things so that's where the effort 
is going.  The time for changing minds is long past.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
1999!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.


I hereby declare that I am NOT a facilities based provider, since I 
do not
have any physical point on my network that can be tapped, mirrored, 
probed,
or otherwise possible to intercept.   I have no equivalent to a 
switched

network.

There you have it.

We're putting my network your mouth is, folks.   Continually, there 
is the
statement that nobody will be requied to change their network.   
We'll see
how true to their word the government is.  Trusting government's word 
is THE
definition of ultimate stupidity, but I have no other choice.  My 
prediction
is that those statements are only words, and it will ultimately be 
proven a

total lie.

Now, I HAVE a suggestion for LE 

Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Alan Cain

Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Mark,

Justify it anyway you like. Civil disobedience is not a viable 
solution. I don't see a large number of people stepping up to the 
plate and defending your position.




Whoa, there now! Civil disobedience is always a viable solution. This IS 
America (at least where I live), land of the free and home of the brave, 
a country of laws (remember?) and of the rights of all people guaranteed 
by our constitution and bill of rights. I remember the 60's and 70's 
(and participated) and I for one am NOT sorry.


I am a war veteran, disabled by our conflict, and a war protester, and I 
am bloody well sensitive to the idea that my fights (for individual 
rights and the rights of our citizens to squawk like hell) was for 
nothing. Was it?


I think our country was made, and made better, by civil disobedience, 
and that there is always a place for it. Always. Did I say always?


Alan Cain

The king can see that (I hope) without his spectacles.
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[WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread Jack Unger

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are far 
in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It is 
poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby denying 
broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to reconsider 
their regulations and to consider the compliance costs when regulating 
small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained by 
the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to help 
as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your efforts in 
their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.



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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Butch Evans

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Alan Cain wrote:


Dawn DiPietro wrote:


Justify it anyway you like. Civil disobedience is not a viable 
solution. I don't see a large number of people stepping up to the 
plate and defending your position.



Whoa, there now! Civil disobedience is always a viable solution.


Civil disobedience is (in the context that Dawn was using it) the 
breaking of existing law.  In spite of your 60's heritage, breaking 
the law is NOT an acceptable action.  I understand your position (in 
theory, not practice), but CHANGING law through political influence 
is one thing.  Ignoring it is not a smart thing.


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Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

In the 60's and '70's most of us would taken a much firmer stance.  We
got old and worried about offending somebody.  And then we worried
that somebody would punish us for taking our stand.

One thing is for sure, the Telcos would not have stood for such a
bum's rush.  The FCC and FBI guys would be running for cover from the
Telco legal and lobby efforts.  Our reaction was to brow beat anybody
who questioned the the double speak.

What happened to us?  Do we feel we have too much to lose and no way
to protect ourselves?  Are we really in a free country or have we
fooled ourselves about that as well?

Lonnie



On 5/2/07, Alan Cain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dawn DiPietro wrote:
 Mark,

 Justify it anyway you like. Civil disobedience is not a viable
 solution. I don't see a large number of people stepping up to the
 plate and defending your position.


Whoa, there now! Civil disobedience is always a viable solution. This IS
America (at least where I live), land of the free and home of the brave,
a country of laws (remember?) and of the rights of all people guaranteed
by our constitution and bill of rights. I remember the 60's and 70's
(and participated) and I for one am NOT sorry.

I am a war veteran, disabled by our conflict, and a war protester, and I
am bloody well sensitive to the idea that my fights (for individual
rights and the rights of our citizens to squawk like hell) was for
nothing. Was it?

I think our country was made, and made better, by civil disobedience,
and that there is always a place for it. Always. Did I say always?

Alan Cain

The king can see that (I hope) without his spectacles.
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RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread chris cooper
Its like my old hippie friend told me the only difference between
hippie and yuppie is 50 grand a year  That was in 91.  Adjust
accordingly for inflation.
c

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

In the 60's and '70's most of us would taken a much firmer stance.  We
got old and worried about offending somebody.  And then we worried
that somebody would punish us for taking our stand.

One thing is for sure, the Telcos would not have stood for such a
bum's rush.  The FCC and FBI guys would be running for cover from the
Telco legal and lobby efforts.  Our reaction was to brow beat anybody
who questioned the the double speak.

What happened to us?  Do we feel we have too much to lose and no way
to protect ourselves?  Are we really in a free country or have we
fooled ourselves about that as well?

Lonnie





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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.

Lonnie

On 5/2/07, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Alan Cain wrote:

 Dawn DiPietro wrote:

 Justify it anyway you like. Civil disobedience is not a viable
solution. I don't see a large number of people stepping up to the
plate and defending your position.

Whoa, there now! Civil disobedience is always a viable solution.

Civil disobedience is (in the context that Dawn was using it) the
breaking of existing law.  In spite of your 60's heritage, breaking
the law is NOT an acceptable action.  I understand your position (in
theory, not practice), but CHANGING law through political influence
is one thing.  Ignoring it is not a smart thing.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Sam Tetherow

Butch Evans wrote:

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Alan Cain wrote:


Dawn DiPietro wrote:


Justify it anyway you like. Civil disobedience is not a viable 
solution. I don't see a large number of people stepping up to the 
plate and defending your position.



Whoa, there now! Civil disobedience is always a viable solution.


Civil disobedience is (in the context that Dawn was using it) the 
breaking of existing law. In spite of your 60's heritage, breaking the 
law is NOT an acceptable action. I understand your position (in 
theory, not practice), but CHANGING law through political influence is 
one thing. Ignoring it is not a smart thing.



Um, that is what the DISOBEDIENCE in civil disobedience means.

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

Also, and it finally sunk in, WE are becoming the MAN.  Why are we
scared of ourselves?

Lonnie

On 5/2/07, chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Its like my old hippie friend told me the only difference between
hippie and yuppie is 50 grand a year  That was in 91.  Adjust
accordingly for inflation.
c

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

In the 60's and '70's most of us would taken a much firmer stance.  We
got old and worried about offending somebody.  And then we worried
that somebody would punish us for taking our stand.

One thing is for sure, the Telcos would not have stood for such a
bum's rush.  The FCC and FBI guys would be running for cover from the
Telco legal and lobby efforts.  Our reaction was to brow beat anybody
who questioned the the double speak.

What happened to us?  Do we feel we have too much to lose and no way
to protect ourselves?  Are we really in a free country or have we
fooled ourselves about that as well?

Lonnie





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RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
But they are alike in they both have Harleys... :)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of chris cooper
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:03 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

Its like my old hippie friend told me the only difference between
hippie and yuppie is 50 grand a year  That was in 91.  Adjust
accordingly for inflation.
c
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[WISPA] FCC Regulations Clarification

2007-05-02 Thread Ryan Morgan

I have a few questions about part 15.247 ..


(i) For frequency hopping systems operating in the 902-928 MHz band: if the
20 dB bandwidth of the hopping channel is less than 250 kHz, the system 
shall use at least 50 hopping
frequencies and the average time of occupancy on any frequency shall not 
be greater than 0.4 seconds
within a 20 second period; if the 20 dB bandwidth of the hopping channel 
is 250 kHz or greater, the
system shall use at least 25 hopping frequencies and the average time of 
occupancy on any frequency
shall not be greater than 0.4 seconds within a 10 second period. The 
maximum allowed 20 dB bandwidth

of the hopping channel is 500 kHz.



For one AP using 20db bandwidth of hopping channel   250 kHz , hopping 
on at least 50 channels.


How about 20 units in the same location, all hopping on at least 50 
frequencies.
The regulation mentions that the average time on any frequency shall not 
be greater than 400 ms within a 20 second period.
With all those AP hopping on those 50 hopping frequencies, you would 
think that the occupancy on any particular

frequency would be greater than 400 ms within a 20 second period?

If those particular units were trying to get away from interference, can 
they select certain frequencies to hop around and still be within 
regulations?


If somebody could clear this up for me then that would be great.

Thanks,
Ryan


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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Compliance

2007-05-02 Thread Sam Tetherow

Tim Kery wrote:

Hi Ross,

 
  

SNIP

You also have to remember that Law Enforcement's primary focus is Law
Enforcement and not developing technology. The FBI/DEA/DOJ said as much
when in 2004 they petitioned the FCC to expand CALEA to broadband and
VoIP. Essentially, they argued that it isn't possible for them to keep
up with the pace of technology. (By the way, this isn't an ability
issue, the FBI and Secret Service, ect. have exceptionally talented
teams. Instead it really is a resource issue; the number of staff they
have to cover these issues can't cover the scale of the problem.) 
  
So I, as a small provider, am suppose to have more and better resources 
than the federal government and their various agencies?



Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Butch Evans

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Sam Tetherow wrote:


Um, that is what the DISOBEDIENCE in civil disobedience means.


I can't tell what you are referring to here.  My comment was 
specifically to say that criminal action (breaking the law) is not 
the proper course.  Is that the part that you disagree with?


--
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Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Compliance

2007-05-02 Thread Ross Cornett
I appreciated Tim's remarks, but this sounded very much like a response from 
someone that is getting fed by the process of CALEA.  If I am wrong I duly 
appologize.  if I am correct then I have said enough.



I agree with you Sam.  It boils down to Uncle Sam is pushing an INTERNET 
SECURITY  TAX on the everyone in the industry and only funding the TELCO's 
Side of it  and we have no say so in the matter.  They have plenty of 
resources and just determined that we can take it or shut down.  This too is 
another way that the multi funded telcos will continue to be fed by the feds 
and we will have to pickup the scraps that the telco's don't have time or 
the interest to reach.  Now doing that will just be a tougher battle.


It must be nice getting a subcity... only a telcos know how to spell 
that the rest of us have never had money give to us we have to earn 
it. lol


Ross




- Original Message - 
From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA Compliance



Tim Kery wrote:

Hi Ross,



SNIP

You also have to remember that Law Enforcement's primary focus is Law
Enforcement and not developing technology. The FBI/DEA/DOJ said as much
when in 2004 they petitioned the FCC to expand CALEA to broadband and
VoIP. Essentially, they argued that it isn't possible for them to keep
up with the pace of technology. (By the way, this isn't an ability
issue, the FBI and Secret Service, ect. have exceptionally talented
teams. Instead it really is a resource issue; the number of staff they
have to cover these issues can't cover the scale of the problem.)
So I, as a small provider, am suppose to have more and better resources 
than the federal government and their various agencies?



Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread J. Vogel
... I wish now that I had paid more attention in History classes

Which of the founding fathers said something to the effect that the
proper response of the citizenry
to an unjust law was to ignore/disobey it?

John Vogel

Butch Evans wrote:

 On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

 Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
 oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.

 Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating
 criminal action are not the same thing.

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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato

Nahh, hippies don't have harley's.

I was wiring at a hippie market a few years back, and this hippie dude, 
a real hippie dude, told me that my truck was a waste and that anywhere 
I could go in Eugene Oregon, he could get there just as fast on his 
bicycle. robably is true. So as I was getting ready to go to the supply 
house, he bet me that he would get there first.
So I took the bet, sure enough I show up and here is this hippie dude 
sitting on the loading dock. So I say to him, yeah but, ( a canadian 
expression :) ) waite right here. I come out with a few bundles of 
conduit and a few big rolls of wire,etc and ask him, how are you going 
to get this stuff back to your store on a bicycle???


Why else would I be driving a truck!

George

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

But they are alike in they both have Harleys... :)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of chris cooper
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:03 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

Its like my old hippie friend told me the only difference between
hippie and yuppie is 50 grand a year  That was in 91.  Adjust
accordingly for inflation.
c


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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread JohnnyO
Butch - if we all followed the laws - nothing in this country would be what 
it is today. If our predeccessors (spelling?) followed the rule which we 
bucked against - where would we be ?


JohnnyO
- Original Message - 
From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?



On Wed, 2 May 2007, Sam Tetherow wrote:


Um, that is what the DISOBEDIENCE in civil disobedience means.


I can't tell what you are referring to here.  My comment was specifically 
to say that criminal action (breaking the law) is not the proper course. 
Is that the part that you disagree with?


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Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

I suggest you not take the view that breaking any and all laws is a
criminal matter.  There are various levels of laws, and most are not
criminal matters.  I can break the speed laws and get a fine but no
criminal record, unless of course I harm someone or do it in such a
way that it is clearly criminal or insane (like 100 mph through a
playground).

Lonnie


On 5/2/07, Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.

Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating
criminal action are not the same thing.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato
Please post that link, if we all filled out the form, we would get some 
kind of recognition.



Jason wrote:

Gang,

   Congress.org has a spot to enter your zip and then takes you to a 
form to email all the elected officials in your district.  I found it 
when I was googling Rep Bart Stupak + CALEA because someone else had 
already wrote their reps asking them for endorsement!  So I did too.


Jason

Travis Johnson wrote:
Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.






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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

The proper phrase is: yeah but, wait right here, eh?

Always end with a question, eh?

Lonnie

On 5/2/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Nahh, hippies don't have harley's.

I was wiring at a hippie market a few years back, and this hippie dude,
a real hippie dude, told me that my truck was a waste and that anywhere
I could go in Eugene Oregon, he could get there just as fast on his
bicycle. robably is true. So as I was getting ready to go to the supply
house, he bet me that he would get there first.
So I took the bet, sure enough I show up and here is this hippie dude
sitting on the loading dock. So I say to him, yeah but, ( a canadian
expression :) ) waite right here. I come out with a few bundles of
conduit and a few big rolls of wire,etc and ask him, how are you going
to get this stuff back to your store on a bicycle???

Why else would I be driving a truck!

George

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:
 But they are alike in they both have Harleys... :)



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of chris cooper
 Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:03 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

 Its like my old hippie friend told me the only difference between
 hippie and yuppie is 50 grand a year  That was in 91.  Adjust
 accordingly for inflation.
 c

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RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread David Peterson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

I recommend Thoreau's treatise on the subject.

David

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

... I wish now that I had paid more attention in History classes

Which of the founding fathers said something to the effect that the
proper response of the citizenry
to an unjust law was to ignore/disobey it?

John Vogel

Butch Evans wrote:

 On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

 Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
 oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.

 Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating
 criminal action are not the same thing.

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or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in 
error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any 
attachments and contact the sender by reply email or telephone (800) 945-3294. 

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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato


Some people ask too much.

 Ask not what WISPA can do for you, but ask what you can  do for WISPA.

WISPA, being all of us, can always use a helping hand. Anybody that 
thinks they can help, should step up to the plate, pay the measly couple 
hundred bucks, and offer to do something to help, ALL of US, or WISPA


If anyone can not offer to help or refuses to pay dues, then they should 
not be asking others to do their work for them. They have no business 
asking what wispa is doing for them. They should tow the line and then 
ask for help.






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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Sam Tetherow
You probably should have then.  Last I checked treason was just that, 
which is what the founding fathers did when they declared their 
independance from England over unjust taxation (a law) which they 
refused to pay (ignored/disobeyed it).


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

J. Vogel wrote:

... I wish now that I had paid more attention in History classes

Which of the founding fathers said something to the effect that the
proper response of the citizenry
to an unjust law was to ignore/disobey it?

John Vogel

Butch Evans wrote:
  

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:



Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.
  

Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating
criminal action are not the same thing.




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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato



eh?

I thought it was aye

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

The proper phrase is: yeah but, wait right here, eh?

Always end with a question, eh?

Lonnie



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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread JohnnyO

in BC most say hey
- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?





eh?

I thought it was aye

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

The proper phrase is: yeah but, wait right here, eh?

Always end with a question, eh?

Lonnie



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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato
In Maine, the old time new englander yankees say  you can't get theyer 
from heyer.


:)




JohnnyO wrote:

in BC most say hey
- Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?





eh?

I thought it was aye

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

The proper phrase is: yeah but, wait right here, eh?

Always end with a question, eh?

Lonnie



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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Lonnie Nunweiler

aye is a form of yes, as in aye capn highliner.  eh is a form of
question, to gain agreement, such as I can do this, eh?

Lonnie

On 5/2/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



eh?

I thought it was aye

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
 The proper phrase is: yeah but, wait right here, eh?

 Always end with a question, eh?

 Lonnie


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Lonnie Nunweiler
Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
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RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Correct, civil disobedience has been used effectively in the past to change
things for the better...and the worse.  

There are consequences to those who take those stands though.  

Jeff
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Alan Cain
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

Dawn DiPietro wrote:
 Mark,

 Justify it anyway you like. Civil disobedience is not a viable 
 solution. I don't see a large number of people stepping up to the 
 plate and defending your position.


Whoa, there now! Civil disobedience is always a viable solution. This IS
America (at least where I live), land of the free and home of the brave, a
country of laws (remember?) and of the rights of all people guaranteed by
our constitution and bill of rights. I remember the 60's and 70's (and
participated) and I for one am NOT sorry.

I am a war veteran, disabled by our conflict, and a war protester, and I am
bloody well sensitive to the idea that my fights (for individual rights and
the rights of our citizens to squawk like hell) was for nothing. Was it?

I think our country was made, and made better, by civil disobedience, and
that there is always a place for it. Always. Did I say always?

Alan Cain

The king can see that (I hope) without his spectacles.
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RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Get to know your local Congressman.  Go to the town hall meetings.  Stick
around afterward and chat.  The meetings are generally poorly attended, and
you can often get a LOT of time to discuss things that matter to you.  Get
involved.  I worked on the campaign of my local (ex) Congressman.  For 4
years my Congressman knew my name and would take my calls...I even got to
meet with him in DC when I was there for a tradeshow.  

It's not hard, it just takes some time and effort.

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly 
oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.

Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating criminal
action are not the same thing.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html
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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Peter R.
Um, are you too lazy to use Google or any number of other websites to 
find your Congress Critter's email??


Do you know what your zip code is?
Then plug it in here:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/ (in the 
red-white-and-blue box that says Write to Congress).


- Peter

Travis Johnson wrote:

Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv


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Re: [WISPA] FCC Regulations Clarification

2007-05-02 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

The rules apply on a per transmitter basis.

I know that some systems are able to hop around some known channels.  I'm 
not sure if that extends to 900mhz or not.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: [WISPA] FCC Regulations Clarification



I have a few questions about part 15.247 ..


(i) For frequency hopping systems operating in the 902-928 MHz band: if 
the
20 dB bandwidth of the hopping channel is less than 250 kHz, the system 
shall use at least 50 hopping
frequencies and the average time of occupancy on any frequency shall not 
be greater than 0.4 seconds
within a 20 second period; if the 20 dB bandwidth of the hopping channel 
is 250 kHz or greater, the
system shall use at least 25 hopping frequencies and the average time of 
occupancy on any frequency
shall not be greater than 0.4 seconds within a 10 second period. The 
maximum allowed 20 dB bandwidth

of the hopping channel is 500 kHz.



For one AP using 20db bandwidth of hopping channel   250 kHz , hopping on 
at least 50 channels.


How about 20 units in the same location, all hopping on at least 50 
frequencies.
The regulation mentions that the average time on any frequency shall not 
be greater than 400 ms within a 20 second period.
With all those AP hopping on those 50 hopping frequencies, you would think 
that the occupancy on any particular

frequency would be greater than 400 ms within a 20 second period?

If those particular units were trying to get away from interference, can 
they select certain frequencies to hop around and still be within 
regulations?


If somebody could clear this up for me then that would be great.

Thanks,
Ryan


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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Travis Johnson
Um, if you make it easy then people will do it. If it's too hard or 
takes too much time, people won't.


And, for whatever it's worth, I've already emailed over 20 of my reps 
for my state before you even sent this reply.


Travis
Microserv

Peter R. wrote:
Um, are you too lazy to use Google or any number of other websites to 
find your Congress Critter's email??


Do you know what your zip code is?
Then plug it in here:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/ (in the 
red-white-and-blue box that says Write to Congress).


- Peter

Travis Johnson wrote:

Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this 
mailing list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no 
effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for 
changing minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv



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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Question

2007-05-02 Thread Peter R.

As I understand it anyone who runs a router has to be CALEA compliant.

Call the FCC ... these guys will answer your question and call you back:
www.fcc.gov/calea

Or ask a Legal Professional like Kris Twomey.
Chris Savage or KC Halm from Davis Wright Tremaine LLP will take your 
questions about CALEA on May 9th  
(http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2007/05/attorney-call-for-calea.html)


- Peter


David Peterson wrote:


As I am finding myself back into sales, I have a question concerning CALEA.  I 
just read this blurb:

The “facilities-based” terminology was meant to include providers offering 
connectivity infrastructure between end users and the Internet. However, 
establishments that acquire broadband Internet access service from a 
facilities-based provider to enable their customers to access the Internet from 
their respective establishments are excluded. The FCC explicitly exempted 
retail providers such as those offering hot spot WiFi (News - Alert) service 
where the actual Internet connectivity is obtained from another provider

From this site:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/calea1.htm

This would indicate to me that if you are a retail provider, i.e. you buy your 
broadband from someone else and resell it to your customers, that you are 
exempt.  This would suggest that the onus is on your provider to monitor your 
T-1 or other connection to them in the event of a need for a tap.

Any clarity on this would be great.



WirelessGuys
David Peterson
Senior Wireless Engineer


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Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.

2007-05-02 Thread Mike Hammett

I already did.  I write my congressmen about once a month.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ok, here's my CALEA statement, and farewell.



Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small broadband 
company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my congressional Rep 
Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.




--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Mike Hammett

www.congress.org, I believe.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA task


Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.


It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
minds is past, wasn't it? ;)


Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:

Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


Blair Davis wrote:

FYI

Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)


Thought some would like to know.





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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Question

2007-05-02 Thread Mike Hammett

Well, everybody gets their Internet from someone else.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: David Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: [WISPA] CALEA Question


As I am finding myself back into sales, I have a question concerning CALEA. 
I just read this blurb:


The “facilities-based” terminology was meant to include providers offering 
connectivity infrastructure between end users and the Internet. However, 
establishments that acquire broadband Internet access service from a 
facilities-based provider to enable their customers to access the Internet 
from their respective establishments are excluded. The FCC explicitly 
exempted retail providers such as those offering hot spot WiFi (News - 
Alert) service where the actual Internet connectivity is obtained from 
another provider



From this site:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/calea1.htm


This would indicate to me that if you are a retail provider, i.e. you buy 
your broadband from someone else and resell it to your customers, that you 
are exempt.  This would suggest that the onus is on your provider to monitor 
your T-1 or other connection to them in the event of a need for a tap.


Any clarity on this would be great.



WirelessGuys
David Peterson
Senior Wireless Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
207 W. Los Angeles Avenue, Suite 300
Moorpark, CA 93021-1862
tel: 800-945-3294
mobile: 979.224.4192
AIM: ultramesh inc
Skype ID:nexuswirelessusa




No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:57 
PM







CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments may 
contain confidential and privileged information for
the use of the designated recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, 
(or authorized to receive for the recipient) you are hereby
notified that you have received this communication in error and that any 
review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it
or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in 
error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any
attachments and contact the sender by reply email or telephone (800) 
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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

That was the Magna Carta.

http://www.odessaoffice.com/constitution/

If you've not ready it, you'd be amazed at the history of it all.  Our 
constitution is partly founded upon that doc as I understand it.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?



... I wish now that I had paid more attention in History classes

Which of the founding fathers said something to the effect that the
proper response of the citizenry
to an unjust law was to ignore/disobey it?

John Vogel

Butch Evans wrote:


On Wed, 2 May 2007, Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:


Changing the laws happens MUCH quicker if a mass of people openly
oppose it.  Your country was founded on that very principle.


Yes it does (sometimes).  Open opposition to a law and advocating
criminal action are not the same thing.


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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Question

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato

Hmmm,

Well during the dial up days, Jokingly, I was thinking about starting a 
new internet business. Internet on a disk! . Each week we send you a 
new disk. We start you off with disk labeled, beginning internet a-ab, 
next week it will be ac-ad. This way the sites will be fast loading and 
won't tie up your telephone lines, nor will you have to buy a fancy high 
speed internet line. No more connection issues.


Well I did ell a couple of my subs this, and they wanted to know what 
would be cheaper grin




Mike Hammett wrote:

Well, everybody gets their Internet from someone else.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: David Peterson 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: [WISPA] CALEA Question


As I am finding myself back into sales, I have a question concerning 
CALEA. I just read this blurb:


The “facilities-based” terminology was meant to include providers 
offering connectivity infrastructure between end users and the Internet. 
However, establishments that acquire broadband Internet access service 
from a facilities-based provider to enable their customers to access the 
Internet from their respective establishments are excluded. The FCC 
explicitly exempted retail providers such as those offering hot spot 
WiFi (News - Alert) service where the actual Internet connectivity is 
obtained from another provider



From this site:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/calea1.htm


This would indicate to me that if you are a retail provider, i.e. you 
buy your broadband from someone else and resell it to your customers, 
that you are exempt.  This would suggest that the onus is on your 
provider to monitor your T-1 or other connection to them in the event of 
a need for a tap.


Any clarity on this would be great.



WirelessGuys
David Peterson
Senior Wireless Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
207 W. Los Angeles Avenue, Suite 300
Moorpark, CA 93021-1862
tel: 800-945-3294
mobile: 979.224.4192
AIM: ultramesh inc
Skype ID:nexuswirelessusa




No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 
2:57 PM





 



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments 
may contain confidential and privileged information for
the use of the designated recipients. If you are not the intended 
recipient, (or authorized to receive for the recipient) you are hereby
notified that you have received this communication in error and that any 
review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of it
or its contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please destroy all copies of this communication and any
attachments and contact the sender by reply email or telephone (800) 
945-3294.




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Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

2007-05-02 Thread Mike Hammett

I thought you ended everything with an eh?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?



The proper phrase is: yeah but, wait right here, eh?

Always end with a question, eh?

Lonnie

On 5/2/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Nahh, hippies don't have harley's.

I was wiring at a hippie market a few years back, and this hippie dude,
a real hippie dude, told me that my truck was a waste and that anywhere
I could go in Eugene Oregon, he could get there just as fast on his
bicycle. robably is true. So as I was getting ready to go to the supply
house, he bet me that he would get there first.
So I took the bet, sure enough I show up and here is this hippie dude
sitting on the loading dock. So I say to him, yeah but, ( a canadian
expression :) ) waite right here. I come out with a few bundles of
conduit and a few big rolls of wire,etc and ask him, how are you going
to get this stuff back to your store on a bicycle???

Why else would I be driving a truck!

George

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:
 But they are alike in they both have Harleys... :)



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of chris cooper
 Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:03 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Was lemmings... now What is WISPA?

 Its like my old hippie friend told me the only difference between
 hippie and yuppie is 50 grand a year  That was in 91.  Adjust
 accordingly for inflation.
 c

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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread cw
My opinion is that you're not helping the big picture by saying compliance 
is more than you can handle. The FCC is not going to go out of their way to 
hand out more spectrum to providers that can't perform basic requirements. 
Just like they're not going to help providers that refuse to file 475 forms. 
You can build a unix box for five hundred dollars that will do the job for 
you. Or you can buy a turnkey box with support for seven thousand. I've seen 
it suggested people pool their funds and share a $7000 turnkey box. If you 
can't do any of these things, then you can't provide required services. I 
don't like or trust government but I don't think they're out of line 
requiring providers be CALEA compliant. This one ain't special interests 
motivated. - cw


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are far 
in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It is 
poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby denying 
broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to reconsider 
their regulations and to consider the compliance costs when regulating 
small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained by 
the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to help 
as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your efforts in 
their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.




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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread Jack Unger

Dear cw,

Thank you for your opinion. I respectfully disagree.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that small local providers can't 
afford to comply with the same requirements that big carriers like ATT 
can comply with. That's the problem here; small local businesses are 
being asked to shell out more money than they can afford just so the 
FBI/DOJ/ATF/CIA/NSA/DHS can quickly and conveniently wiretap. As to 
whether the big carriers have provided input to the FCC 
(FBI/DOJ/ATF/CIA/NSA/DHS) on this issue; the jury is out on that 
question for the moment.


jack

P.S. - The issue of obtaining more spectrum from the FCC will be moot 
once the ranks of the small, local license-free spectrum users are 
thinned much further. In short, no one will be around to need any more 
spectrum.



cw wrote:
My opinion is that you're not helping the big picture by saying 
compliance is more than you can handle. The FCC is not going to go out 
of their way to hand out more spectrum to providers that can't perform 
basic requirements. Just like they're not going to help providers that 
refuse to file 475 forms. You can build a unix box for five hundred 
dollars that will do the job for you. Or you can buy a turnkey box with 
support for seven thousand. I've seen it suggested people pool their 
funds and share a $7000 turnkey box. If you can't do any of these 
things, then you can't provide required services. I don't like or trust 
government but I don't think they're out of line requiring providers be 
CALEA compliant. This one ain't special interests motivated. - cw


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are 
far in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It 
is poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby 
denying broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to 
reconsider their regulations and to consider the compliance costs when 
regulating small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained by 
the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to 
help as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your 
efforts in their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.





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FCC License # PG-12-25133
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread George Rogato
I believe the feds have secret deals with the telcos so they can do what 
ever they want besides calea. Just like I pointed out that fiber att 
wiretapping deal in the very first days of wispa calea  discussion.


This is where I see the imbalance,
The little guys carry the weight and the big guys get gravy secret 
contracts that help shoulder the burden.


I will still do what I have to do to be compliant. But there is a 
reality to the even handedness of this.


George


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear cw,

Thank you for your opinion. I respectfully disagree.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that small local providers can't 
afford to comply with the same requirements that big carriers like ATT 
can comply with. That's the problem here; small local businesses are 
being asked to shell out more money than they can afford just so the 
FBI/DOJ/ATF/CIA/NSA/DHS can quickly and conveniently wiretap. As to 
whether the big carriers have provided input to the FCC 
(FBI/DOJ/ATF/CIA/NSA/DHS) on this issue; the jury is out on that 
question for the moment.


jack

P.S. - The issue of obtaining more spectrum from the FCC will be moot 
once the ranks of the small, local license-free spectrum users are 
thinned much further. In short, no one will be around to need any more 
spectrum.



cw wrote:
My opinion is that you're not helping the big picture by saying 
compliance is more than you can handle. The FCC is not going to go out 
of their way to hand out more spectrum to providers that can't perform 
basic requirements. Just like they're not going to help providers that 
refuse to file 475 forms. You can build a unix box for five hundred 
dollars that will do the job for you. Or you can buy a turnkey box 
with support for seven thousand. I've seen it suggested people pool 
their funds and share a $7000 turnkey box. If you can't do any of 
these things, then you can't provide required services. I don't like 
or trust government but I don't think they're out of line requiring 
providers be CALEA compliant. This one ain't special interests 
motivated. - cw


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are 
far in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It 
is poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby 
denying broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to 
reconsider their regulations and to consider the compliance costs 
when regulating small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained 
by the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to 
help as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your 
efforts in their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.







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[WISPA] Anyone talk to Aquacom?

2007-05-02 Thread Peter R.
Now even the smallest of operators, whether they are offering wireline 
voice, broadband Internet, or VOIP services, can leverage our extensive 
worldwide experience in lawful interception, especially from our work in 
those countries who for years have required IP lawful interception 
states Gilles Blanc, CEO of Aqsacom. Aqsacom will employ innovative 
pricing to its solutions that are reflective traffic volumes, while 
focusing its sales and customer support to best serve the US small and 
mediaum sized carrier market. /For further information contact Aqsacom 
Inc. at +1 202 315 3943 (Washington) or +1 917 750 8614 (NY); for Europe 
contact Aqsacom SA at +33 1 6929 8400; for Australia / Asia contact 
Aqsacom PTY at +61 399 097 280.


http://www.aqsacomna.com/us/index.cfm?iArticleID=47
/
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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread Sam Tetherow
My opinion then, is that the FCC can get off their duffs and provide 
internet to the hinterlands themselves. 

There is more to CALEA than having a $500 unix box, and sharing a $7000 
turnkey box is not an option unless you are sharing it within a tight 
geographical area since response times on execution of certain parts of 
CALEA is shorter than an overnight shipment.


As for getting more spectrum, quite honestly I will believe it when I 
see it.  The FCC is far more interested in the cash that spectrum sales 
bring in than it is interested in providing the best use of the spectrum 
for the American public.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

cw wrote:
My opinion is that you're not helping the big picture by saying 
compliance is more than you can handle. The FCC is not going to go out 
of their way to hand out more spectrum to providers that can't perform 
basic requirements. Just like they're not going to help providers that 
refuse to file 475 forms. You can build a unix box for five hundred 
dollars that will do the job for you. Or you can buy a turnkey box 
with support for seven thousand. I've seen it suggested people pool 
their funds and share a $7000 turnkey box. If you can't do any of 
these things, then you can't provide required services. I don't like 
or trust government but I don't think they're out of line requiring 
providers be CALEA compliant. This one ain't special interests 
motivated. - cw


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are 
far in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It 
is poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby 
denying broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to 
reconsider their regulations and to consider the compliance costs 
when regulating small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained 
by the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to 
help as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your 
efforts in their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.





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Re: [WISPA] Interesting Call Today

2007-05-02 Thread Alan Cain

Travis Johnson wrote:
Wow... I got a call today from a lady in Washington, DC wanting 
70-80 wireless connections in our area for a 3 month project. It was 
just a voicemail that she left, and I don't plan to call her back...




The ATT rep told our saleperson that he was looking for temporary (2 
day
service) to various locations that do not have access to cable/DSL or 
fiber.
They need these connections for conference call meetings and will 
need our
company to set up a wireless router at the location as well.  He 
needs these
connections done in as short as a 3-4 day window. 
 

Has anyone else had similar calls?  Not sure if they are just fishing 
for
information or what. 
 
 

Yes, I did. they emailed me. I quote:

We are interested in high speed internet on temporary basis like 1-2 
days for approx 70-100 users in the areas you are already established 
and serving.  The services would be used by government folks.   We will 
be ready to use the services later in 2007 and most of 2008.
Please let me know a contact name and number with email address so we 
can discuss this further.

Thank you

 or end quote.

They responded to my reply as well.
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RE: [WISPA] WISPA task

2007-05-02 Thread Rick Harnish
On the old WISPA website, I had a drop down list that took you to each state
webpage.  From those webpages you could find your congressmen.  I bet Matt
Larsen would put the zipcode search on the new page.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA task

www.congress.org, I believe.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] WISPA task


 Yes! There is a job for WISPA. Gather all the email addresses for all 
 the congresspeople in all the states and post the list to this mailing 
 list. Then everyone can write their reps with little or no effort.
 
 It was a little short sighted for Marlon to say The time for changing 
 minds is past, wasn't it? ;)
 
 Travis
 Microserv
 
 George Rogato wrote:
 Maybe we should all ask our lawmakers to endorse this bill.


 Blair Davis wrote:
 FYI

 Rep Bart Stupak's (D-MI) request for a CALEA waiver for small 
 broadband company's is currently expected to be endorsed by my 
 congressional Rep Fred Upton (R-MI)

 Thought some would like to know.



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Re: [WISPA] Radio choices

2007-05-02 Thread John Thomas
You could still use Mikrotik as a Hotspot, but not as an AP with radio 
installed.


John

Mark McElvy wrote:

I am getting ready to expand my network by adding a couple of new
towers. The decision I am trying to make is what equipment to buy. My
plan was to use Mikrotik for a BH/AP, but with all the certification
talk, I am looking in different directions. I am looking for the
following features.

 


PPPoE at the AP

Virtual AP

Hotspot

 


These are the basics. I run my clients with PPPoe and have a virtualAP
setup as a hotspot to catch people passing through. Any one know of
certified equipment that is as flexible as Mikrotik? Have looked at
Deliberant but don't know if it can do the VAP and hotspot.

 


Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.



 

  


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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Compliance (Netequalizer)

2007-05-02 Thread John Thomas

For people that run Netequalizers, they are helping you comply

As promised, NetEqualizer is now offering the utilities necessary to 
meet requirements set forth this month by CALEA, or the Communications 
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. This law oversees telecommunication 
security and has now been expanded to Internet security. There are some 
fairly harsh federal penalties for noncompliance that became effective 
May 1.



John

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
There won't be a WISPA standard done in time.  We're still waiting on 
some documentation from the FBI and we need to get some internal 
documentation together as well.


But you don't have to be compliant with ANY standard to be CALEA 
compliant! You just have to understand what you have to do if they ask 
and have mechanisms in place to do it.


The basic parts you'll need are:
Linux based router or tap capabilities on the on you have.  OR a 
managed switch that will allow you to mirror a port.

Linux server with OpenCALEA and an FTP program on it.
Knowledge of how to make it record and distribute the needed data for 
LEA.


You don't HAVE to use a TTP.  You don't HAVE to follow a standard.  
You don't HAVE to panic just yet.


*I've* talked to the folks at the FBI.  They are NOT interested in 
running anyone out of business.  They just want to catch bad guys and 
they *may* need our help to do it.  Everything past that point is FUD.


Why have a standard at all then?  Because if you don't follow a 
standard you have to TRY to do anything that LEA asks of you.  If you 
are standards compliant you only have to do what the standard says you 
have to do.


Believe it or not, guys like Tim at Bearhill are working WITH WISPA in 
our efforts to develop a low cost/no cost solution to CALEA.  We all 
know that many in this industry are still trying to figure out how to 
pay the bill on that latest order for 3 cpe units.  I was sometimes 60 
days behind with EC. I always paid but rarely on time.  Sucked for me 
and for them.  Fortunately, they hung with me and today we're as 
likely to be prepaid as we are to owe them.  It's a nice change of 
pace.  We also order radios in bulk, every couple to few weeks, rather 
than 1 or 2 at a time.  Wondering how to make payroll, or buy diapers 
sucks.  Most of us have been there.  We got through those times partly 
because others reached a hand down and helped us where they could.  We 
worked hard, honestly and consistently.


I suggest that those of you in panic mode over CALEA go to 
www.askcalea.net and read up on it.  Contact the FCC and the FBI 
yourselves if you don't believe those of us that are doing this work.  
So far I've found that folks are more than happy to answer my direct 
questions.


At LEAST contact those that WISPA sent to the FBI!  They know a lot of 
answers and they have a direct line to the FBI if they don't know the 
answer.


Yeah, CALEA is a big deal.  Yeah it's complicated.  Yeah, it'll suck 
to have to perform.  Yeah, you have to do it anyway :-).  Might as 
well stop whining and start figuring out what all of those ttp's have 
already gotten figured out.


Someone's gonna make money off of those out there that can't/won't 
figure it out for themselves.  Might as well be you!

marlon

- Original Message - From: Todd Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] CALEA Compliance



John,

The part that is causing disbelief for me is the deadline is only 
days away

and I haven't seen this solution or the costing for the solution.

Todd Barber
Skylink Broadband Internet
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
970-454-9499


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA Compliance



I personally do not believe that any CALEA can be cost effective. Quite
simply, solving CALEA requires spending money without earning any
additional revenue. The only way to justify the CALEA expense is to 
accept

it as a cost of doing business. This means simply that your market
opportunity is lost if you aren't CALEA compliant. I firmly believe 
every
service provider should have plans for being CALEA compliant or have 
plans
for exiting the business. This one is different than E911; the 
liability

will be staggering.

-Matt



Matt,
We look forward to proving that this thinking is wrong. What part of
CALEA compliance is it that makes you think we cannot develop a low cost
and reasonable solution which will not break the bank?
Scriv


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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

Uh Sam, you do remember the 5.4 gig band right?

255 mhz of NEW spectrum, made available last year.

There's also 24ghz and 60ghz available.  We just need people building the 
new toys at price points that will work for us.


Know what I want?  A 15 or 20 meg $1500 to $2000 60 gig solution good for a 
mile or two.


marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs


My opinion then, is that the FCC can get off their duffs and provide 
internet to the hinterlands themselves.
There is more to CALEA than having a $500 unix box, and sharing a $7000 
turnkey box is not an option unless you are sharing it within a tight 
geographical area since response times on execution of certain parts of 
CALEA is shorter than an overnight shipment.


As for getting more spectrum, quite honestly I will believe it when I see 
it.  The FCC is far more interested in the cash that spectrum sales bring 
in than it is interested in providing the best use of the spectrum for the 
American public.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

cw wrote:
My opinion is that you're not helping the big picture by saying 
compliance is more than you can handle. The FCC is not going to go out of 
their way to hand out more spectrum to providers that can't perform basic 
requirements. Just like they're not going to help providers that refuse 
to file 475 forms. You can build a unix box for five hundred dollars that 
will do the job for you. Or you can buy a turnkey box with support for 
seven thousand. I've seen it suggested people pool their funds and share 
a $7000 turnkey box. If you can't do any of these things, then you can't 
provide required services. I don't like or trust government but I don't 
think they're out of line requiring providers be CALEA compliant. This 
one ain't special interests motivated. - cw


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are far 
in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It is 
poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby denying 
broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to reconsider 
their regulations and to consider the compliance costs when regulating 
small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained by 
the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to help 
as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your efforts in 
their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.





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Re: [WISPA] Mirrored Switch

2007-05-02 Thread W.D.McKinney
For low cost managed rack mount switches try D-Link.
See http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=2pid=86

-Dee


Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net



- Original Message -
From: John Thomas
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 02 May 2007 18:42:35 -0800
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Mirrored Switch


 If you want something a little easier on the pocketbook,  managed HP 
 Procurves work well.
 
 John
 
 
 Mark Price wrote:
  Matt wrote:
  Does anyone reccommend a good switch that supports this and is rack
  mount?  Hopefully available at newegg.com.  Putting together a Linux
  server is easy but my luck a good switch might be backordered when I
  need it.
 
  Matt
 
  Almost any standard Cisco (not linksys consumer junk) switch can do this
 
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833120109
 
  Here is the datasheet:  
 
 http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps628/products_data_sheet09186a00801cfb71.html
 
 
 
  A Switched Port Analyzer (SPAN) port can mirror traffic from one or 
  many ports to another port for monitoring all nine RMON groups with an 
  RMON probe or network analyzer.
 
 
  Mark
 
  www.achievewireless.com
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Mirrored Switch

2007-05-02 Thread John Thomas

Also, most HP Procurves have lifetime warranties.

John

John Thomas wrote:
If you want something a little easier on the pocketbook,  managed HP 
Procurves work well.


John


Mark Price wrote:

Matt wrote:

Does anyone reccommend a good switch that supports this and is rack
mount?  Hopefully available at newegg.com.  Putting together a Linux
server is easy but my luck a good switch might be backordered when I
need it.

Matt


Almost any standard Cisco (not linksys consumer junk) switch can do this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833120109

Here is the datasheet:  
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps628/products_data_sheet09186a00801cfb71.html 



A Switched Port Analyzer (SPAN) port can mirror traffic from one or 
many ports to another port for monitoring all nine RMON groups with 
an RMON probe or network analyzer.



Mark

www.achievewireless.com





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[WISPA] CALEA Question

2007-05-02 Thread Tim Kery
David,

Regarding your question, the FCC was referring to Retail
Establishments and not Retail Providers. The FCC defines facilities
based as follows:

facilities-based meant entities that provide transmission or
switching over their own facilities between the end user and the
Internet Service Provider (ISP)

So if your customer traffic traverses over a router, switch or bridge
that you own, and your offering exceeds 200Kbps in either direction in
the last mile, then you meet the commissions definition of a
facilities-based broadband service provider. The FCC did exclude some
retail establishments from the CALEA requirement. 

Specifically, in the FCC's First Report and Order and NPRM (05-153), pg
19. paragraph 36 states:

 Finally, in finding CALEA's SRP to cover facilities-based providers of
broadband Internet access service, we conclude that establishments that
acquire broadband Internet access service from a facilities-based
provider to enable their patrons or customers to access the Internet
from their respective establishments are not considered facilities-based
broadband Internet access service providers subject to CALEA under the
SRP.99 We note, however, that the provider of underlying facilities to
such an establishment would be subject to CALEA, as discussed above. 

Footnote #99 on the same page further clarifies:

Examples of these types of establishments may include some hotels,
coffee shops, schools, libraries, or book stores. DOJ has stated that it
has no desire to require such retail establishments to implement CALEA
solutions, DOJ Comments at 36, and we conclude that the public interest
at this time does not weigh in favor of subjecting such establishments
to CALEA.

So, Starbucks doesn't need to comply with CALEA but the service provider
that provides bandwidth to Starbucks does.

Hope this helps.

Tim Kery
BearHill Security, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[WISPA] CALEA Question
David Peterson DPeterson at Wirelessguys.com
mailto:wireless%40wispa.org?Subject=%5BWISPA%5D%20CALEA%20QuestionIn-R
eply-To=e702557f0705021144t38638587y585f4544732c9b6d%40mail.gmail.com 
Wed May 2 13:57:48 CDT 2007 
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author ]
http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/2007-May/author.html  

As I am finding myself back into sales, I have a question concerning
CALEA.  I just read this blurb:

The facilities-based terminology was meant to include providers
offering connectivity infrastructure between end users and the Internet.
However, establishments that acquire broadband Internet access service
from a facilities-based provider to enable their customers to access the
Internet from their respective establishments are excluded. The FCC
explicitly exempted retail providers such as those offering hot spot
WiFi (News - Alert) service where the actual Internet connectivity is
obtained from another provider

From this site:  http://www.rad-info.net/fcc/calea1.htm

This would indicate to me that if you are a retail provider, i.e. you
buy your broadband from someone else and resell it to your customers,
that you are exempt.  This would suggest that the onus is on your
provider to monitor your T-1 or other connection to them in the event of
a need for a tap.

Any clarity on this would be great.



WirelessGuys
David Peterson
Senior Wireless Engineer
DPeterson at WirelessGuys.com
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
207 W. Los Angeles Avenue, Suite 300
Moorpark, CA 93021-1862
tel: 800-945-3294
mobile: 979.224.4192
AIM: ultramesh inc
Skype ID:nexuswirelessusa






 http://www.bearhill.com/ 




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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread Sam Tetherow
You do have a point on the 5.4 Marlon, although it was otherwise 
unsellable spectrum.  The power restrictions along with DFS requirements 
limited it to something I doubt many would be willing to pay for.  Not 
saying we can't use it though.  I'm eagerly awaiting affordable gear 
since it fits my model quite well.  Most of my customers are within 3 
miles of my towers.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

Uh Sam, you do remember the 5.4 gig band right?

255 mhz of NEW spectrum, made available last year.

There's also 24ghz and 60ghz available.  We just need people building 
the new toys at price points that will work for us.


Know what I want?  A 15 or 20 meg $1500 to $2000 60 gig solution good 
for a mile or two.


marlon

- Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs


My opinion then, is that the FCC can get off their duffs and provide 
internet to the hinterlands themselves.
There is more to CALEA than having a $500 unix box, and sharing a 
$7000 turnkey box is not an option unless you are sharing it within a 
tight geographical area since response times on execution of certain 
parts of CALEA is shorter than an overnight shipment.


As for getting more spectrum, quite honestly I will believe it when I 
see it.  The FCC is far more interested in the cash that spectrum 
sales bring in than it is interested in providing the best use of the 
spectrum for the American public.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

cw wrote:
My opinion is that you're not helping the big picture by saying 
compliance is more than you can handle. The FCC is not going to go 
out of their way to hand out more spectrum to providers that can't 
perform basic requirements. Just like they're not going to help 
providers that refuse to file 475 forms. You can build a unix box 
for five hundred dollars that will do the job for you. Or you can 
buy a turnkey box with support for seven thousand. I've seen it 
suggested people pool their funds and share a $7000 turnkey box. If 
you can't do any of these things, then you can't provide required 
services. I don't like or trust government but I don't think they're 
out of line requiring providers be CALEA compliant. This one ain't 
special interests motivated. - cw


Jack Unger wrote:

Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that 
the FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for 
small broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are 
far in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. 
It is poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance 
to literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby 
denying broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to 
reconsider their regulations and to consider the compliance costs 
when regulating small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained 
by the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) 
to help as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your 
efforts in their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.





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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Question

2007-05-02 Thread David E. Smith

The FCC wrote:

we conclude that establishments that
acquire broadband Internet access service from a facilities-based
provider to enable their patrons or customers to access the Internet
from their respective establishments are not considered facilities-based
broadband Internet access service providers

Hm.

It'd be one heckuva stretch, but by reading the letter (as opposed to 
the spirit) of that paragraph, many smaller WISPs would automatically be 
exempt. I know my office has acquired broadband Internet access service 
from a facilities-based provider (our upstream ISP) and we're enabling 
our customers to access the Internet from their respective 
establishments (i.e. our customers pay for Internet at their homes or 
offices).


By the letter of that paragraph (and, to be fair, I haven't read all the 
context surrounding it) most any single-homed WISP would be exempt, as 
they could just say go talk to our upstream. (I doubt it'd work for 
multi-homed ISPs, as that would require multiple upstreams to be tapped 
and somehow synchronized, which is probably technically annoying.)


David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] CALEA Exemption for Small Wireless ISPs

2007-05-02 Thread John Scrivner
Thank you Jack. I am glad to see someone doing something for their 
beliefs instead of kicking WISPA in the chins for not doing it for them. 
WISPA is here for all of you to interact and decide what and how you 
want to represent yourselves and your industry. Jack knows that means he 
can do something and is doing something. Way to go Jack. It is usually 
only 4 or 5 of us within WISPA who actually do something to light a fire 
under people's butts. I am glad to see you take the step this time. 
That's called leadership people. Jack showed you how its done folks. If 
you want change then make it happen. This was less work than complaining 
about the problem and is infinitely more productive toward getting 
something done about the issues that many have been talking about here 
with regard to fears of inability to meet the demands of CALEA.

Scriv


Jack Unger wrote:


Dear Representative Stupak,

I'm writing to support your request on March 14, 2007 asking that the 
FCC Commissioners consider a waiver from CALEA regulations for small 
broadband providers.


In a nutshell, the costs of complying with the CALEA provisions are 
far in excess of what small broadband providers can afford to pay. It 
is poor government policy to allow the costs of CALEA compliance to 
literally put small broadband providers out of business thereby 
denying broadband Internet access to many rural Americans.


Do you plan to introduce legislation that directs the FCC to 
reconsider their regulations and to consider the compliance costs when 
regulating small Internet access providers?


Please advise me how I can further support your effort to retain 
broadband Internet access service for rural Americans.


Thank you for your time, interest, and efforts.

Sincerely,
Jack Unger


P.S. - I am copying this email to the general email list maintained by 
the Wireless Internet Service Providers Association (WISPA.org) to 
help as many small ISPs as possible learn about and support your 
efforts in their behalf. I will forward your response to this list.




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