Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL
What brands did you test? Mainnet's worked as promised for us. No, it was not 500Mbps but 20+ is very cool. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read your post, I was also involved in the testing. They didn't hit their throughput nor did they achieve any of the interference mask parameters. We tried several versions of this. If you want 512kbps you can do it. But Michael Powell was promising 500 mbps magically flowing through all the power lines and lighting up a whole city. You are not going to get bi directional 500 mbps on high voltage power lines (as promised by some) without causing unacceptable interference and regenerating the signal every 1000 feet. Secondary... as in low voltage... as in 240 volt single phase from transformer to the house does work. Like I said homeplug is a very viable technology. What some people call BPL is secondary BPL. HV BPL is not going to be a viable backhaul technology for a variety of reasons. Yes, secondary BPL barely works with arguably acceptable (by some). Show me a HV system that works as advertised. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL Chuck, It's as though you didnt read my post! BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter, those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF. Nor are they balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines. Pipe, right? What's the problem? It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines, let alone coax or fiber. And it is going to leak so much that the American Red Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs. This has been proven time and time again. You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running on a three phase line and the line is very balanced. Once it hits a cap bank, regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate the signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction. Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the old G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed). Really BPL is nothing more than G-Line. As long as you don't care about vomiting all over the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want. I actually do listen to AM radio. I want to listen to short-wave and ham if I decide to do so. A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an emergency. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all realitive. The powergrid is already setup ready to go, why not use it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest potential? To do otherwise is wasteful. BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt figure out the hold up is here in the states. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea. HV infrastructure was not built with the idea of being a transmission line for RF. To get any kind if speed you have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range. You might as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert system. It would be cheaper and work better. The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides is a much more viable technology. But you don't see that getting deployed either. BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and got talked about. Nothing more. On the secondary side it is nothing more than homeplug. That is viable and deployed and does just fine. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL To clarify, by real interference I meant they are no worse than anything else we deal with. Like any RF transmission, there are emmisions, but those can be dealt with just like the way we (WISP's) deal with them. The ARRL made a mountain out of molehill and it was all
Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL
Everything has it's place. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Jonathan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuck is right on the spot. RF is very demanding both in transmission lines and radiators. We all know how much discipline we need to invoke when deploying successful RF links. RF on an unbalanced, geometrically variable conductor will barely move with most being dissipated as heat or radiated away. Chuck is correct that elevated, balanced three phase lines, as far as the geometry remains stable, might have some short range applicability when coupled with notch filters and other carefully designed, customized equipment. Short range and expensive. That's why it isn't out there. The ARRL and other interested parties did observe a number of vendor products under FCC monitoring...monitoring that was later shown to be comparable to the Katrina effort. The results were effectively decided in the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit earlier this year: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/04/25/10064/?nc=1 The momentum for BPL on HV has come from investors who point to the sky and convince people that the wires, like your cable TV coax, are conductors and, therefore, should carry RF just like 60Hz. Anecdotal recollections of bumbling (on both sides, I agree) experiments don't invalidate Smith Charts and pure science. However, the power company has right-of-way and pole-to-pole LOS. Any of the WISPA members would drool over that geography and would be better shepherds of the effort to bring broadband to rural areas. Meanwhile, I'll go back to my Smith Charts, grid dip meter, SWR cross-needle meter, and TDR equipment that served me so well all these years. I run a clean shop. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF. Nor are they balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines. Pipe, right? What's the problem? It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines, let alone coax or fiber. And it is going to leak so much that the American Red Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs. This has been proven time and time again. You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running on a three phase line and the line is very balanced. Once it hits a cap bank, regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate the signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction. Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the old G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed). Really BPL is nothing more than G-Line. As long as you don't care about vomiting all over the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want. I actually do listen to AM radio. I want to listen to short-wave and ham if I decide to do so. A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an emergency. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all realitive. The powergrid is already setup ready to go, why not use it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest potential? To do otherwise is wasteful. BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt figure out the hold up is here in the states. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea. HV infrastructure was not built with the idea of being a transmission line for RF. To get any kind if speed you have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range. You might as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert system. It would be cheaper and work better. The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides is a much more viable technology. But you don't see that getting deployed either. BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and got talked about. Nothing more. On the secondary side it is nothing more than homeplug. That is viable and deployed and does just fine. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL
I'm talking MV LV. HV is not there (yet) AFAIK. There were 105 pilot tests in 2004, of those, I was involved with several deployments. 5 ended up serving the public. Those are some happy customers! I met them. I agree BPL was oversold but then what technology isnt? As far as bandwidth, the source can be from multiple locations in a mesh topology. The end user's modem selects the best path to the source. Therefore, you are not limited to 20Mbps. As far as repeaters, G2 went 1800 wire feet. G3 was supposed to at least double that. Big deal, the units were cheap ($150). Depending on the topology, it could be more or less costly than Canopy and no installation! You can literally mail the modem to the end user! Besides, while I am wireless guy, wireline is better. At any rate, the purpose of my post was just to be sure the record is straight. I still say BPL is a great technology and will be a viable bandwidth source in the future. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you call BPL? HV or MV or LV? LV works. I don't call that BPL. It isn't a method to magically distribute broadband to a city. It is only a way to use the power drop as a way to get into the house. Some of those systems used Motorola Canopy to get to the distribution point. MV worked a bit in some of the deployments. The most successful one that I heard of allowed about 512 kbps. I don't recall what the guys in Texas were using, but it reportedly got up into the 20-30 Mbps range (with repeaters every 1000 feet). That is what I am talking about and what I was involved in testing. It is not economically feasible and you have to put up a bunch of technology to feed a neighborhood. And then you only have 20-30 Mbps to share amongst the neighbors. I can do the same with a Motorola Canopy 400 series for a very small fraction of what BPL on MV costs. HV was the pie in the sky, using the magnetic fields around the power lines as a containment structure for a microwave signal. Hundreds of Mbps. Lab oddity, but picked up by the press. Which one of these are we talking about here? - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL Chuck, It's as though you didnt read my post! BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter, those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF. Nor are they balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines. Pipe, right? What's the problem? It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines, let alone coax or fiber. And it is going to leak so much that the American Red Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs. This has been proven time and time again. You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running on a three phase line and the line is very balanced. Once it hits a cap bank, regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate the signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction. Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the old G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed). Really BPL is nothing more than G-Line. As long as you don't care about vomiting all over the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want. I actually do listen to AM radio. I want to listen to short-wave and ham if I decide to do so. A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an emergency. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all realitive. The powergrid is already setup ready to go, why not use it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest potential? To do otherwise is wasteful. BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt figure out the hold up is here in the states. -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea. HV infrastructure was not built with the idea of being a transmission line for RF. To get any kind if speed you
Re: [WISPA] tower demolition video
Gotta love you tube! I liked how this one went down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRGkofsxWg4 -RickG On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:01 PM, jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We had an old 95' rohn25 tower (probably 100' with 5' in the ground) that is 50+ years old and we took it down. It came with the site when I bought it ten years ago. It was quickly reguyed early in my ownership and had served us well. The old (unused) guys were crusty rusty and brittle, so I figured the tower wasn't far behind. We'd built a replacement tower to better serve our needs, and didn't want the old tower to come down in an inevitable winter/icy storm. We picked a calm day so wind was not an issue. We had two people in the woods pulling it where we wanted it to go with ropes at the 30 and 60' points. We removed the bottom two of three guys, and cut the top one to make it fall. I started with thermite (and magnesium fuse) as I didn't want to be near the guy point when it let go, but I ended up needing to cut through a turnbuckle with a power tool. The thermite destroyed the terracotta flower pot it was in and wasn't properly directed onto the anchor. Just as well. It came down where we wanted it perfectly with no damage to other stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-tXQULhaM0 -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Nanostation5
RickG wrote: Yes, I scan the channels with the NS5 and saw it checking for 64 aka 5320 (for example). So, I changed my AP to 5320. Still nothing. Perhaps I am too far from the APas I was doign this from home which is 1 mile. I'll try it closer. 1 mile? Have you done a link budget? What is the receiver sensitivity on both ends? That makes a big difference in scenarios like this. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Need a power supply?
http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
One that I can buy as a private citizen? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
Only a 5 year life span? Yikes. marlon - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits, shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding. Gino Villarini wrote: Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? One that I can buy as a private citizen? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
...and don't forget to add the 24/7 sentries required (as stated on their Web site). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits, shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding. Gino Villarini wrote: Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? One that I can buy as a private citizen? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
Those are not civilian installations and are pretty much exempt from EPA issues and the US Gov (generaly) doesnt stop itself when it wants something. For a private company to do this is not easy. http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/06.html http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-op-lic/licensing-process.html D. Ryan Spott wrote: There are several small nuke plants in AK at this time powering listening stations for the military. I had a room mate that serviced these devices and a family member that flew crews out 2x a year to test for leaks and perform service. I guess they ran like a top and never had an issue. ryan On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits, shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding. Gino Villarini wrote: Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? One that I can buy as a private citizen? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
Don't think for a minute they are that exempt from EPA style issues, espically when they move to get rid of a site. They spend billions each year getting compliant. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Those are not civilian installations and are pretty much exempt from EPA issues and the US Gov (generaly) doesnt stop itself when it wants something. For a private company to do this is not easy. http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/06.html http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-op-lic/licensing-process.html D. Ryan Spott wrote: There are several small nuke plants in AK at this time powering listening stations for the military. I had a room mate that serviced these devices and a family member that flew crews out 2x a year to test for leaks and perform service. I guess they ran like a top and never had an issue. ryan On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits, shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding. Gino Villarini wrote: Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? One that I can buy as a private citizen? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?
The key word there is 'getting'. It is (almost) always easier to ask forgiveness then permission. Things are not always done the correct way and a lot of it falls under get it done, clean it up later. Times have changed in the last decade or two and thats mostly for the better. That is not ot say the AK sites were not done correctly, only that Uncle Sam tends to get its way easier then JoeSixPack Blake Bowers wrote: Don't think for a minute they are that exempt from EPA style issues, espically when they move to get rid of a site. They spend billions each year getting compliant. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Those are not civilian installations and are pretty much exempt from EPA issues and the US Gov (generaly) doesnt stop itself when it wants something. For a private company to do this is not easy. http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/06.html http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-op-lic/licensing-process.html D. Ryan Spott wrote: There are several small nuke plants in AK at this time powering listening stations for the military. I had a room mate that serviced these devices and a family member that flew crews out 2x a year to test for leaks and perform service. I guess they ran like a top and never had an issue. ryan On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits, shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding. Gino Villarini wrote: Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? One that I can buy as a private citizen? - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? Toshiba has one available Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply? I would buy one today if I could. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply? http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org