Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
What brands did you test? Mainnet's worked as promised for us. No, it
was not 500Mbps but 20+ is very cool.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I read your post,  I was also involved in the testing.  They didn't hit
 their throughput nor did they achieve any of the interference mask
 parameters.  We tried several versions of this.  If you want 512kbps you can
 do it.  But Michael Powell was promising 500 mbps magically flowing through
 all the power lines and lighting up a whole city.

 You are not going to get bi directional 500 mbps on high voltage power lines
 (as promised by some) without causing unacceptable interference and
 regenerating the signal every 1000 feet.

 Secondary... as in low voltage... as in 240 volt single phase from
 transformer to the house does work.  Like I said homeplug is a very viable
 technology.  What some people call BPL is secondary BPL.  HV BPL is not
 going to be a viable backhaul technology for a variety of reasons.

 Yes, secondary BPL barely works with arguably acceptable (by some).  Show me
 a HV system that works as advertised.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 Chuck,

 It's as though you didnt read my post!

 BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes
 along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter,
 those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they
 balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines,
 let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red
 Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running
 on
 a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank,
 regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate
 the
 signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old
 G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over
 the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham
 if
 I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining
 valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built
 with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed
 you
 have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range.  You
 might
 as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert
 system.
 It
 would be cheaper and work better.

 The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides
 is a
 much more viable technology.  But you don't see that getting deployed
 either.

 BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and
 got
 talked about.  Nothing more.  On the secondary side it is nothing more
 than
 homeplug.  That is viable and deployed and does just fine.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:32 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 To clarify, by real interference I meant they are no worse than
 anything else we deal with. Like any RF transmission, there are
 emmisions, but those can be dealt with just like the way we (WISP's)
 deal with them. The ARRL made a mountain out of  molehill and it was
 all 

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
Everything has it's place.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Jonathan Schmidt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Chuck is right on the spot.

 RF is very demanding both in transmission lines and radiators.  We all
 know how much discipline we need to invoke when deploying successful RF
 links.

 RF on an unbalanced, geometrically variable conductor will barely move
 with most being dissipated as heat or radiated away.  Chuck is correct
 that elevated, balanced three phase lines, as far as the geometry remains
 stable, might have some short range applicability when coupled with notch
 filters and other carefully designed, customized equipment.  Short range
 and expensive.  That's why it isn't out there.

 The ARRL and other interested parties did observe a number of vendor
 products under FCC monitoring...monitoring that was later shown to be
 comparable to the Katrina effort.  The results were effectively decided in
 the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit earlier this
 year: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2008/04/25/10064/?nc=1

 The momentum for BPL on HV has come from investors who point to the sky
 and convince people that the wires, like your cable TV coax, are
 conductors and, therefore, should carry RF just like 60Hz.  Anecdotal
 recollections of bumbling (on both sides, I agree) experiments don't
 invalidate Smith Charts and pure science.

 However, the power company has right-of-way and pole-to-pole LOS.  Any of
 the WISPA members would drool over that geography and would be better
 shepherds of the effort to bring broadband to rural areas.

 Meanwhile, I'll go back to my Smith Charts, grid dip meter, SWR
 cross-needle meter, and TDR equipment that served me so well all these
 years.  I run a clean shop.

 . . . J o n a t h a n

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:25 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water
 lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines, let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF
 rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running
 on a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank, regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to
 terminate the signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham
 if I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in
 ruining valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built
 with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed

 you
 have to use lots of power, even then it is very very short range.  You
 might
 as well set up a whole bunch of dragonwaves in a drop and insert
 system.
 It
 would be cheaper and work better.

 The idea of using natural gas distribution lines as circular waveguides

 is a
 much more viable technology.  But you don't see that getting deployed
 either.

 BPL on HV is a lab experiment that caught the eye of Michael Powell and

 got
 talked about.  Nothing more.  On the secondary side it is nothing more
 than
 homeplug.  That is viable and deployed and does just fine.
 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 

Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
I'm talking MV  LV. HV is not there (yet) AFAIK. There were 105 pilot
tests in 2004, of those, I was involved with several deployments. 5
ended up serving the public. Those are some happy customers! I met
them. I agree BPL was oversold but then what technology isnt?
As far as bandwidth, the source can be from multiple locations in a
mesh topology. The end user's modem selects the best path to the
source. Therefore, you are not limited to 20Mbps.
As far as repeaters, G2 went 1800 wire feet. G3 was supposed to at
least double that. Big deal, the units were cheap ($150). Depending on
the topology, it could be more or less costly than Canopy and no
installation! You can literally mail the modem to the end user!
Besides, while I am wireless guy, wireline is better. At any rate, the
purpose of my post was just to be sure the record is straight. I still
say BPL is a great technology and will be a viable bandwidth source in
the future.
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What do you call BPL?
 HV
 or
 MV
 or
 LV?

 LV works.  I don't call that BPL.  It isn't a method to magically distribute
 broadband to a city.  It is only a way to use the power drop as a way to get
 into the house.  Some of those systems used Motorola Canopy to get to the
 distribution point.

 MV worked a bit in some of the deployments.  The most successful one that I
 heard of allowed about 512 kbps.  I don't recall what the guys in Texas were
 using, but it reportedly got up into the 20-30 Mbps range (with repeaters
 every 1000 feet).  That is what I am talking about and what I was involved
 in testing.  It is not economically feasible and you have to put up a bunch
 of technology to feed a neighborhood.  And then you only have 20-30 Mbps to
 share amongst the neighbors.  I can do the same with a Motorola Canopy 400
 series for a very small fraction of what BPL on MV costs.

 HV was the pie in the sky, using the magnetic fields around the power lines
 as a containment structure for a microwave signal.  Hundreds of Mbps.  Lab
 oddity, but picked up by the press.

 Which one of these are we talking about here?


 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 4:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


 Chuck,

 It's as though you didnt read my post!

 BPL works - with acceptable interference - I saw it with my own eyes
 along with dozens of skeptical ham operators. Theory does not matter,
 those issues are conquered. Seeing is believing.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 One huge reason, powerlines are not constant impedance to RF.  Nor are
 they
 balanced. This is like trying to pump natural gas down the water lines.
 Pipe, right?  What's the problem?

 It is never going to ever work as well as balanced transmission lines,
 let
 alone coax or fiber.  And it is going to leak so much that the American
 Red
 Cross in Afghanistan will be able to detect the static on their HF rigs.
 This has been proven time and time again.

 You can get BPL to work over a short range (like a mile) if it is running
 on
 a three phase line and the line is very balanced.  Once it hits a cap
 bank,
 regulator, transposition, transformer or anything, you have to terminate
 the
 signal and figure a way to bypass the obstruction.

 Once you put it on a single phase line you might as well go back to the
 old
 G-Line concept (another oddity that ultimately failed).  Really BPL is
 nothing more than G-Line.  As long as you don't care about vomiting all
 over
 the RF spectrum you can do whatever you want.

 I actually do listen to AM radio.  I want to listen to short-wave and ham
 if
 I decide to do so.  A half baked idea like HV bpl has no place in ruining
 valuable spectrum that is absolutely necessary in the event of an
 emergency.




 - Original Message -
 From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] IBM backs BPL


I disagree. I personally saw BPL work and work very well. As far as
 setting up a bunch of dragonwaves, you must have line of sight. As far
 as range, whats the point? Ethernet is only rated at 100 meters and it
 is widely used. BPL's range is much farther than that. It's all
 realitive. The powergrid is already setup  ready to go, why not use
 it? Shouldnt we utilize any and all resources to their fullest
 potential? To do otherwise is wasteful.

 BTW: BPL is more widely used and accepted in many other countries
 abroad. Several of our potential vendors were non-US. They couldnt
 figure out the hold up is here in the states.

 -RickG

 On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 BPL on HV was and is a stupid idea.  HV infrastructure was not built
 with
 the idea of being a transmission line for RF.  To get any kind if speed
 you
 

Re: [WISPA] tower demolition video

2008-11-16 Thread RickG
Gotta love you tube! I liked how this one went down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRGkofsxWg4
-RickG

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:01 PM, jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We had an old 95' rohn25 tower (probably 100' with 5' in the ground)
 that is 50+ years old and we took it down. It came with the site when I
 bought it ten years ago. It was quickly reguyed early in my ownership
 and had served us well. The old (unused) guys were crusty rusty and
 brittle, so I figured the tower wasn't far behind. We'd built a
 replacement tower to better serve our needs, and didn't want the old
 tower to come down in an inevitable winter/icy storm. We picked a calm
 day so wind was not an issue.

 We had two people in the woods pulling it where we wanted it to go with
 ropes at the 30 and 60' points. We removed the bottom two of three guys,
 and cut the top one to make it fall.

 I started with thermite (and magnesium fuse) as I didn't want to be near
 the guy point when it let go, but I ended up needing to cut through a
 turnbuckle with a power tool. The thermite destroyed the terracotta
 flower pot it was in and wasn't properly directed onto the anchor.

 Just as well. It came down where we wanted it perfectly with no damage
 to other stuff.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-tXQULhaM0


 --
 /*
 Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
 */


 
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Re: [WISPA] Nanostation5

2008-11-16 Thread Rogelio
RickG wrote:
 Yes, I scan the channels with the NS5 and saw it checking for 64 aka
 5320 (for example). So, I changed my AP to 5320. Still nothing.
 Perhaps I am too far from the APas I was doign this from home which is
 1 mile. I'll try it closer.

1 mile?  Have you done a link budget?

What is the receiver sensitivity on both ends?  That makes a big 
difference in scenarios like this.



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[WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread George Rogato
http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/



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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread Chuck McCown - 3
I would buy one today if I could.

- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/


 
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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread Gino Villarini
Toshiba has one available 


Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

I would buy one today if I could.

- Original Message -
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread Chuck McCown - 3
One that I can buy as a private citizen?

- Original Message - 
From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 Toshiba has one available


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 I would buy one today if I could.

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/



 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
Only a 5 year life span?  Yikes.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:42 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/


 
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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea
(small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would
not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the
O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska
where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but
diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found
people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some
fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I
would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits,
shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding.




Gino Villarini wrote:
 Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go?   


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 One that I can buy as a private citizen?

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


   
 Toshiba has one available


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 On
   
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 I would buy one today if I could.

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 
 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/



   
 
   
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread Jonathan Schmidt
...and don't forget to add the 24/7 sentries required (as stated on their
Web site).
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea (small,
sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would not need
touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the O.K. for it.
The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in Alaska where they
could really really use it as many places have nothing but diesel gen-sets
for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found people willing but
the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some fast math here $75 (my
avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I would bet you would need to
add 2 years or so to that for permits, shipping, etc if not more. Not to
horrible sounding.




Gino Villarini wrote:
 Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go?   


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 One that I can buy as a private citizen?

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


   
 Toshiba has one available


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 On
   
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 I would buy one today if I could.

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 
 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/



   
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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Those are not civilian installations and are pretty much exempt from EPA
issues and
the US Gov (generaly) doesnt stop itself when it wants something. For a
private company
to do this is not easy.

http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/06.html

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-op-lic/licensing-process.html

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 There are several small nuke plants in AK at this time powering  
 listening stations for the military.

 I had a room mate that serviced these devices and a family member that  
 flew crews out 2x a year to test for leaks and perform service.

 I guess they ran like a top and never had an issue.

 ryan


 On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea
 (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would
 not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the
 O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in  
 Alaska
 where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but
 diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found
 people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some
 fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I
 would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits,
 shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding.




 Gino Villarini wrote:
 
 Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go?


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 One that I can buy as a private citizen?

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?



   
 Toshiba has one available


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
 On

   
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 I would buy one today if I could.

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?



 
 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/




   
 

   
 

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


   
 

   
 

 
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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread Blake Bowers
Don't think for a minute they are that exempt from
EPA style issues, espically when they move to get
rid of a site.

They spend billions each year getting compliant.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


 Those are not civilian installations and are pretty much exempt from EPA
 issues and
 the US Gov (generaly) doesnt stop itself when it wants something. For a
 private company
 to do this is not easy.

 http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/06.html

 http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-op-lic/licensing-process.html

 D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 There are several small nuke plants in AK at this time powering
 listening stations for the military.

 I had a room mate that serviced these devices and a family member that
 flew crews out 2x a year to test for leaks and perform service.

 I guess they ran like a top and never had an issue.

 ryan


 On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea
 (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would
 not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the
 O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in
 Alaska
 where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but
 diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found
 people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some
 fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I
 would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits,
 shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding.




 Gino Villarini wrote:

 Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go?


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 One that I can buy as a private citizen?

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?




 Toshiba has one available


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 On


 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 I would buy one today if I could.

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?




 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/





 


 


 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 


 


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Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

2008-11-16 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The key word there is 'getting'. It is (almost) always easier to ask
forgiveness then permission. Things
are not always done the correct way and a lot of it falls under get it
done, clean it up later. Times
have changed in the last decade or two and thats mostly for the better.
That is not ot say the AK sites
were not done correctly, only that Uncle Sam tends to get its way easier
then JoeSixPack



Blake Bowers wrote:
 Don't think for a minute they are that exempt from
 EPA style issues, espically when they move to get
 rid of a site.

 They spend billions each year getting compliant.


 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:38 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?


   
 Those are not civilian installations and are pretty much exempt from EPA
 issues and
 the US Gov (generaly) doesnt stop itself when it wants something. For a
 private company
 to do this is not easy.

 http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/06.html

 http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactor-op-lic/licensing-process.html

 D. Ryan Spott wrote:
 
 There are several small nuke plants in AK at this time powering
 listening stations for the military.

 I had a room mate that serviced these devices and a family member that
 flew crews out 2x a year to test for leaks and perform service.

 I guess they ran like a top and never had an issue.

 ryan


 On Nov 16, 2008, at 8:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


   
 There have been at least two startups that had much the same idea
 (small, sealed underground reactors that could not go critical, would
 not need touched, no major moving parts, etc) and could never get the
 O.K. for it. The most notable one I remember wanted to put one in
 Alaska
 where they could really really use it as many places have nothing but
 diesel gen-sets for primary AC. IIRC (and might be wrong) they found
 people willing but the EPA and US Gov said no to the deal. Doing some
 fast math here $75 (my avg bill) X 20,000 = $1.5MM so a 2 year ROI. I
 would bet you would need to add 2 years or so to that for permits,
 shipping, etc if not more. Not to horrible sounding.




 Gino Villarini wrote:

 
 Dunno ,,, What is the US policy on this? Go, no go?


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:14 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 One that I can buy as a private citizen?

 - Original Message -
 From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?




   
 Toshiba has one available


 Gino A. Villarini
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 
 On


   
 Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:47 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need a power supply?

 I would buy one today if I could.

 - Original Message -
 From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 6:42 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Need a power supply?




 
 http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/





   
 


   
 


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



   
 


   
 


 
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